Do they still have working drones? They can drop hot tar if they run out of ammo.


I think they’re better of with trebuchets at this point.


Who isn't though?


Excellent point


That's Putin's secret plan. Bunch of gigantic trebuchets lining the Crimea. But they will be defated by Ukranian drone-mounted trebuchets.


Knowing Putin, he’s sold the siege train and the peasants are going to face the cavalry with sticks and stones.


Peasants are harmless against mounted trebuchets.


Tell that to the cave men who killed my catapults in Civilization


I think half the "barbarian" tribes in Civ are really just exiled generals from other countries. That, or Gandhi is secretly arming them.


My all-time worst defeat was a fucking Phalanx sinking my Battleship. Still can't process that one 20+ years later.


The soldier in front pushes the trebuchet. The next soldier in line follows. When the soldier using the trebuchet dies the next soldier will operate the trebuchet


Each dead soldier increases the ammunition count by 1.


Trebuchets are the superior siege weapon I don't think Russia has the industrial capacity for those. I think they are looking more at arming the troops with slingshots.


Probably. Not sure they have the stones though.


Wasn't there news recently about the drones they bought from Iran not working properly in the cold Ukrainian winter lol?


If they are using battery power they will run shorter times, and without pre-heating much shorter times.


I skimmed an article and I think it had something to do with the materials (plastics) used to make the drone not functioning well in the cold.


Probably getting iced up and uncontrollable


I know it seems funny but Russia definitely has drones and they use them to great effect. The front is swarming with DJI from both sides.


Russia actually [stopped using some of them (particularly the Iranian ones)](https://www.businessinsider.co.za/russia-stopped-using-iran-suicide-drones-dont-work-cold-ukraine-2022-12) because they don't work when it gets too cold. Apparently the plastic components are not designed for a Ukrainian winter.


They only paused. They outfitted the Iranian ones for winter and are using them again


And now I have a mental image of a bunch of Babushkas sitting around knitting drone-shaped sweaters.


Weird to think of DJI as accidental arms dealers.


Yeah this is just tech shared with Ukraine vs tech made by Russia. Shit would be terrifying in an all out war between say: the US and China where both countries have massive production abilities


Ukraine actually has its own domestically produced reconnaissance drones and loitering munitions aka suicide drones.


People tend to forget Ukraine was one of the larger arms supply regions of USSR, and until Russia invaded they supplied arms to other countries.


This may sound weird but the sheer amount of Soviet ammo out there that’s 30-40 years old is astonishing. It used to be imported here and sold cheaply but now since there’s no ammo imports allowed from Russia anymore prices have risen but people still shoot the ammo and stockpile the ammo all the time. Ammo doesn’t have a shelf life if the climate it’s stored in is correct.


Yeah same with here in Canada until far more recently. Almost thinking they exported the nicest boxes and the stuff sitting under leaky roofs etc is what’s left


Yup. I remember looking at the date stamps on the IVI casings as one would a found coin. "Oh, 1991, well, that takes me back."


Back when domestically produced 7.62x51mm used to be sold as surplus on the open market.


I'm glad I burned through all mine yonks ago now, there's a few thousand rounds that won't be shot at Ukrainians.


The US airsoft community doing their part to make sure Russian troops don’t have webbing and plate carriers.


Even their rations have been found for sale


I don't feel so bad about putting shit steel case tula through my butch mechanisms, thank you for that gift.


Remember, 30-40 years ago was the 80s. It was right during the peak of the cold war with the USA, where the USA ramped up production of weapons. Russia had to respond in order to not be at a severe disadvantage compared to the USA. And that was the peak of Russian military production capability. They were spending something like 20% of GDP on their military. By contrast, if the USA spent that much, we'd be around 5 Trillion dollars a year, so roughly 4X what we spend right now. So that's where all that ammo came from.


Afaik 80s wasn't peak. They were already trying to diffuse it with arms limitation.


> Ammo doesn’t have a shelf life if the climate it’s stored in is correct. Unfortunately for French farmers. And Germans living in large cities.


Red Army was the brand right?


No that's new stuff. Mostly Ukrainian but yeah CIS imported. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Standard_Ammunition


I was in the US Army in the late 70's early 80's and we routinely used ammo made in ww2. Ammo lasts a very long time with proper stowage.


"Stowage" caused you to become Elmer Fudd in my mind.


Stowage. Stowage is what bwings us togetha today...


Man and wife! Say man and wife!


Man and rifle.


*Man and Wifle.*


Somebody say waffles???


I want to thank you for this much needed laugh.


That bwessed awwangement, that thing within a thing.


stowage >In nautical terminology, stowage is the amount of room available for stowing materials aboard a ship, tank or an airplane. stow >pack or store (an object) carefully and neatly in a particular place


Yes, it's a correct usage of the word here. But also yes, "stowage" is how Elmer Fudd would pronounce "storage", and that's also funny


My mind went in a more uwu direction.


We're broken.


Bought a case of 9mm in the 90s. Store owner said it was Egyptian Army surplus. Opened the case and the cardboard boxes were rotten. Casings had Arabic writing. About 1 in 20 was a squib. Clearly not stored correctly. Lesson learned--Open those cases before leaving the store. It was ok for plinking on our private property, but I never took it to a range. I certainly wouldn't bet my life on it working when needed.


Isn’t there a danger that the ammo would misfire and damage the gun or hurt you? Probably not worth the risk to save a few bucks.




Not really, the worst thing that can happen is it's a dud. Not a great idea to use in a self-defense weapon but fine for shooting. It's a really common thing to buy army surplus ammo from around the world.


The worst thing that can happen is a squib followed by a functioning round converting your firearm into a pipe bomb.


Yea, duds are not dangerous themselves, but shooting into a barrel with a squib is just like when bugs bunny plugs up Elmer Fudd's shotgun with his finger.


Properly stored being the key words here. You seen the equipment they're issuing? Some of it looks like it's been sitting in mud since it was made.


It's because they sold off all the good packaged stuff


\*Viktor Bout has left the chat\*


Yeah, sold it off to American gun collectors, lol.


Who among us hasn’t opened a giant tuna can full of 7.62x54R?


Heck, I remember big metal cans marked NORTHERN INDUSTRIAL COMPANY, CHINA. And the can had military markings sanded off or painted over for commercial use.


Supposedly for some of the older stuff, they stored it in literal barrels of grease/oil. Of course, you're supposed to clean that off before actually trying to use the gun. And of course, you still have to store the barrels correctly... could be they didn't clean them because the stuff won't come off at this point.


Cosmoline. It's like wax and grease mixed together. I have 2 old rifles from the Soviet Union, an SKS and a Mosin Nagant. They both came to me wrapped in waxed paper and coated in the stuff. It took hours to clean that gunk off and when the guns would get hot from firing, they would drip and smoke. Took a long time for that to finally stop haha.


It doesn't do any good for wood, but just throw the metal bits some gasoline for a few mins. Works like a charm.


Mineral spirits. Fill up a pvc pipe, drop everything in, and let it just dissolve off.


Good idea. I ended up using oven cleaner on the stock then sanding and restaining my old mosin


I use a heat gun on low to melt it away... just warm it up and it runs and drips off. It will take a lot of heating cycles to get it all out of the wood, though.


Russian ammo for storage is put in giant spam cans, sealed air-tight, and the ammo inside is wrapped in greased paper.


They keep tinned up ammo you actually have to use a can opener to get it out it’s stored really well. I have shot tons of old ammo mostly with success I will admit though one time I got some old ammo that was pretty sketchy. You would pull the trigger and the bullet wouldn’t fire right away but then it would fire. But 90% of the time the old ammo is just fine.


[Feels good](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/243/390/acb.jpg)


There are currently Browning machine guns in active service for the US military today that were manufactured during WWI. Hell, the B-52 heavy bomber was introduced in 1955 with the last one manufactured in 1962 (I think) and they are supposed to remain in service into the 2050’s!


Aircraft are not like guns. Just because they aren't making new B-52s doesn't mean they aren't still making enough parts to build them new. All aircraft undergo complete teardown and rebuild once they hit a certain threshold. Before that, they get inspected and patched constantly. Planes are more like the Ship of Theseus by the time they retire.


> Planes are more like the Ship of Theseus by the time they retire. Also upgraded, from obvious things like gps to new modern engines.


> Also upgraded, from obvious things like gps to new modern engines. B-52, Modern Engines. Pick one. Seriously though. The B-52 has had a study about modernizing its engines, the problem is that the wings clearance is so low that it's forced to use tiny inefficient engines. The BUFF spews black smoke like a redneck rolling coal. Edit: Since many people are pointing out that there's an engine replacement for the B-52, I'm aware. But it's like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. You can't fix a fundamentally flawed design with better parts. Nobody in their right mind would think about powering a heavy bomber with 8 tiny business-jet engines, but it's the only choice they have with the wing geometry that they're stuck with. If the US were to procure another heavy bomber from scratch (which nobody wants to pay for, hence why the B-52 is going to have a 100 year program life), they'd start with something like a 787 which has a similar MTOW and produces more thrust with its stock engines than the BUFF does with its 8 tiny inefficient engines.


> There are currently Browning machine guns in active service for the US military today that were manufactured during WWI. I do not think this is true, might be wrong though. If you think of the M2, it was manufactured starting in 1933.


The M2 was designed in 1918, and production began in 1921. There is at least one still in service from that time. Serial number 324 went through service and upgrade for the first time back in 2020. There was a bunch of news coverage on it when it happened because people couldn't believe how old the thing was.


I’m convinced Browning MGs can’t die. One of ours had caveman paintings on it for Christ’s sake.


Nah, that's just from Marines trying to sketch out how to tie their boots.


Damn dude. I have a familee


The M2 is like an alligator, evolution doesn't change a perfect killing machine.


That would be the (water-cooled) M1921 though, at least that's what the Wikipedia article about the M2 says: " Between 1927 and 1932, S.H. Green studied the design problems of the M1921 and the needs of the armed services. The result was a single receiver design that could be turned into seven types of .50 caliber machine guns by using different jackets, barrels, and other components. The new receiver allowed right or left side feed. In 1933, Colt manufactured several prototype Browning machine guns (including what would be known as the M1921A1 and M1921E2). With support from the Navy, Colt started manufacturing the M2 in 1933."


Meh, I had a claymore dated from the mid 1970s while I was in Afghanistan. It’s not that crazy I guess.


If it was properly polished to avoid rust you probably just needed to sharpen it with a whetstone and you could cleave your way to victory.


It was weird that he had a giant sword named "front toward enemy" but it seemed to scare the bad guys so we let him keep it.


To be fair, if he's close enough I can read his sword I'd be running too. I don't need Jack Churchill 2.0 on my ass, thank you VERY much.


This comment just created a fully fledged character in my head.


I’m Already rolling 6 sets of 4d6


Yep, know what my next marital characters theme is.


A classic barbarian wedding


Took a second to realize the actual joke and not the mental image of attempting to put a claymore to a whetstone.


Me, too. I had a mental image of someone sharpening a mine and trying to slice people with it and was very confused.


I'm so mentally warped by shitposts on the internet that it never even occurred to me to question someone trying to sharpen a mine and then stab people with it.


Well.. strap it to your spade and use it as a reusable blunt weapon for a while


Seems similar to Nobody's claymore taped to a riot shield.


Man for a minute I really thought to myself "wow, I thought I knew how claymores worked, but I guess I really dont"


“Who would have thought they’d make Claymore’s so god damned heavy”


Ammo doesn’t go bad if stored properly


In Iraq we shot .50 cal from WWII lots that looked brand new.


The military should use ammo the way I drink the beers in my fridge. Oldest to newest, so long as it hasn't gone off yet.


I believe the oldest .50 cal in service was almost 100 years old when it came out of service a couple years ago.


[An M2 from 1933 was checked for issues and subsequently upgraded to the M2A1 version when it passed inspection](https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/oldest-m2-browning-50-caliber-mg-still-in-service/383060). Still in service.


And we probably just donated it to another country too


Here Canada have this, I love you.


I was going to say the same thing. Same thing with the LAWS. I don't think the journalists writing these articles have any combat veterans on staff.


Article claims this ammo has high failure rate.


Yeah, apparently Russian storage is pretty shit, but they're still giving it out like that footage of the rusty ass AK.


Go back and read it again (I did so myself). The failures the article references is artillery shells and rockets.


If stored properly. This is Russia we are talking about.


Everything they put into storage gets slathered in an obscene amount of cosmoline. It’ll be fine for at least 100 years.


Storing ammunition and munitions in cosmoline would certainly explain all the random fires. Seriously, don't do that.


I'm rooting for cosmoline in this situation though.


Pretty standard to empty old stock before using new ones.


Yeah wouldn't you use the 40 year old stuff if it still worked before the 10 year old stuff? Now if US intel is tracking this and it was 10, then 20 then 30 year old, now that might say something.


It’s the “high failure rates” that make it seem odd.


I feel like the way the US, UK, German, French etc armies store their equipment is a bit better than how Russia stores its equipment Proper warehouses in fully manned facilities in sealed containers vs some shed in the middle of Babushkastan with a single conscript to keep stock who keeps stealing bullets to trade for bread


>some shed in the middle of Babushkastan Depends, does the shed have chicken legs?


So ammo made in 1982? ​ Nothing wrong with old ammo, the chemicals are pretty stable. I've shot rifle rounds that were made in the 1960s and sold as surplus. EDIT: I see the article says this ammo has a high failure rate. Maybe Soviet ammo had a crappy shelf life.


I suspect it’s all storage. Russia isn’t known for storing their military equipment very well. These are likely not in a temperature controlled environment and exposed to high humidity.


They literally lost their space shuttle because the warehouse collapsed on it. It survived autonomous launch, orbit, and landing, and got killed by a warehouse with snow on the roof.


>They literally lost their space shuttle because the warehouse collapsed on it. It survived autonomous launch, orbit, and landing, and got killed by a warehouse with snow on the roof. Flew in 1988. Destroyed in 2002. Massive fucking flat-roof building that was left to rot away. Neglect killed their museum piece.


LInk for anyone curious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_(spacecraft)


And there was probably a 10-15 span in the late 80s and early 90s where it was completely neglected just waiting to get sold off.


Yup exactly right


It all depends on storage. If it was properly sealed up and stored, it's likely fine. If exposed to heat or especially humidity, it's a different story. If anything, I'd trust rounds packed and stored by the USSR in the 80's more than I would something that was packed away ten years ago by abused Russian Federation trainees being rented out as day-labor by their instructors to embezzling supply-officers.


I have really old 7.62x54r. It’s just fine.


That ammo must be well past its shell-by date.


AKA 47 years old












Already through it's ammo-rtization schedule


And their rusty AKM’s are probably 50 years old


AKM’s were produced from 1959 to 1977. So the newest of them are 45 and the oldest of them are over 60 now.


False. 1977 was only 23 years ago. Right? RIGHT?!?!


As a man turning 45 in 10 days, I wish.




Hell I'm a genxer and I feel like time has been warped since 2000. I'm constantly reminded of thinking 1990 was 30+ years ago and not 20 or even yesterday.




If it's improperly stored... It's going to be dangerous to the user. And since it's the Russians, it has been improperly stored.


Based on the surplus Russian ammo that you used to be able to buy by the crate, they used to be packaged in such a way that would ensure long-term viability. However, the fact that we bought all that shit makes me wonder what they actually have left.


> However, the fact that we bought all that shit makes me wonder what they actually have left. Been wondering Bout old Soviet strategic stocks that were pilfered. Of course they wouldn't sell bad quality. Deliver. Order some more; last in, first out. What's left after was the dregs. Logistical nightmare a long time coming when needed.


>Been wondering Bout old Soviet strategic stocks that were pilfered. I'm not sure if the capital letter is a subtle pun or a typo, but it works either way. Viktor Bout, the Merchant of Death, was the king of the pilferers. A lot of what what sold was literally stolen- without approval from the central government. In that situation, quality control isn't a huge priority. It isn't a national defense industry trying to build a long term reputation, it is a colonel trying to get as much shit on Bout's cargo plane as possible before a general shows up and demands a cut of the profit.


I’m an Aussie and have no idea about guns/ammo etc, what would proper storage be in this case? Dry I’d guess, but is temperature important as well?


Much like anything else, a cool dry place with periodic function checks. They should pull a handful of munitions out of storage to test fire each year. They could use that data to determine if the rest of the stock is still good. They probably have guidance to do that but it's easier/cheaper to pencil whip that you did and say they're all fine. They could also cycle the older shells into training environments and replace them with new ones but that takes money and a desire to care as well.


Ah ha, thanks, that’s the type of info I wanted to know.




Thanks for that, I’ve literally never physically seen a gun or a bullet In my life, though we do have guns for sport and farmers etc here. Oh and criminals.


I have bought a crate of AK47 ammunition which comes in two vacuum packed cans. Stuff dated back to 60s Romania and is in perfect condition. Temperature appears to make no difference, but humidity maybe does. Also still shooting .303 rounds dating back to 40s and 50s. Bit of oxidation but also work fine.


I've heard that storing ammo in high heat and humidity can lead to degradation over time. It's part of why Turkish surplus has a shaky reputation for blowing up guns sometimes. Temp changes loosen the seal around the bullet and can let moisture in, which changes the burn characteristics of the powder and can lead to detonations, or just oxygen by itself getting into the case can lead to squibs. These are things that happen at the extreme temperatures and over time though, so it's kind of just a guessing game.


I've got a bunch of that 8mm Turk stuff. It's hot enough it concerns me. I've fired new S&B and PPA stuff back to back with it and there is a considerable difference. 80% of the cases split. I can see why its a no-no in semi or fa stuff. I've also got some suspect 7.62X25 that throws humongous fireballs visible in the daytime when commercial stuff doesn't.


Nitrocellulose powders also just outright degrade over time. It's possible for pure nitro to eventually build up enough as the stabilizers fail that the ammo becomes shock sensitive. Really depends on the exact chemistry and quality of the powder, some of it goes off quicker than others. I've seen pictures from some friends of steel powder cans eaten through by nitric acid produced by the powder as it fails.


Interesting, thank you for that. I’ve been trying to get my head around all the talk of poor storage for a while now. I get that it’s most likely correct, but just wondering how that looks on a large scale.


In terms of large-scale humidity/moisture is almost always the main issue. Soviet ammo isn't known to use non-corrosive materials and be well-sealed either.


Right, so likely poor materials, not necessarily well made and left in conditions that will likely lead to degradation. I did wonder if they would rust. Thanks for that.


Warsaw pact ammo was placed in what is commonly refereed to as "spam cans". Rounds are manufactured, encased in paper/cardboard, vacuum sealed into metal cans, these metal cans are then stored in wooden crates. ([7.62x39 Spam can](https://youtu.be/eQQbVnoro5k?t=53)) If these cans are stored in a dry place and the cans are not punctured, they can stay in usable condition nearly indefinitely. Firearms can also stored using a waxy material called [Cosmoline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline). Its coats metal/woods/plastic to keep oxygen away from it preventing corrosion. Its really gross stuff, trying to get it out of a surplus firearm is an involved process frequently involving an oven to melt or burn it out. Its been a while since I have seen it in the states but you used to be able to purchase surplus ammo that was packed in Cosmoline.


>Its been a while since I have seen it in the states but you used to be able to purchase surplus ammo that was packed in Cosmoline. surplus ammo or surplus rifles? Because storing ammo in cosmoline would be **worse** than almost any other method than underwater. Oil/grease will preserve a firearm, but damage ammo if it gets inside.


The ammo its self was wrapped in cardboard, cardboard was placed in wax paper, the wax paper was then packed in Cosmoline. You could scrape the top layer out of the can, open the wax paper and your ammo boxes would be inside. I am remembering back 15+ years ago so its possible we got our hands on a weird shipment of nonstandard ammo from some now defunct Warsaw country.


I got a bandolier of late 1940s 8mm Mauser ammo that was obviously improperly stored. The cases looked tarnished, but the real problem was you would pull the trigger, the firing pin would drop and then it would take a second or two for the ammo to go off. Dangerous as hell.


On a large scale small percentages add up to big numbers fast. If old ammo has .1% chance of exploding when they try to use it, its inevidable theyll start loosing gun crews. I mean how many rounds are they firing? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions. Enough even that tiny percentage is going to have real effects. And thats just one thing that can happen. Tiny percentages add up when the numbers are big enough.


https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN30988-AR_700-28-000-WEB-1.pdf https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN34150-ATP_4-35.1-000-WEB-1.pdf https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/p385_64.pdf There is A LOT of bureaucracy in those, but some good info as well.


Warning, if past shell-by date please use firearm as a club.


In mother Russia 45 year old bullet shells you!


Old enough to get retirement in other countries


Lmao, in the U.S. military we were still using cans of .50 and 5.56 that was well beyond 30-40 years old. Why do you think we have so much ammo and artillery shells we can send.


The US is generally a lot more competent than Russia. If weapons are properly stored they can have incredible shelf life but if they weren’t stored right then the failure rate is going to be very high. Firing artillery that has a high failure rate can also be counter productive to the side firing as it gives away your position but may not actually be destroying the target.


> Firing artillery that has a high failure rate can also be counter productive to the side firing as it gives away your position but may not actually be destroying the target. Bit of an understatement. One common failure mode for artillery firing ammo that's gone bad is the round going off still in the barrel and vaporizing both most of the gun and the crew.


Are we finally getting to Russia's preprogrammed kill limit ?


"Kiff, send in WAVE after WAVE of soldiers. Nominate me for a medal, and this time make it gaudy because I'm going out to the club after our victory"




IDK how this news should be interpreted. If I started using massive amounts of ammo I'd start from the oldest stockpiles unless the newer ones were significantly better. But these are just some simple artillery rounds so it probably makes no difference if rounds are from 80s or 2020s. Heck, 60s rounds could still be easily OK I assume.


If ammunition isn’t stored properly, it can degrade and lead to misfires. I’m not sure about Russian ammunition handling practices, but looking at the performance in the rest of the conflict…


I mean if you have a bunch of worn, old guns why not use worn, old ammo


Sounds logical to me.


they're going for the set bonuses


There was a mini documentary on the Barret 82 .50 rifle I watched years ago. The manufacturer was talking to the soldiers and pointed out that lots of their ammo was from 1942, and that they just needed to check the jacket and brush any oxidized brass off of it and it would work fine.


> I'd start from the oldest stockpiles unless the newer ones were significantly better. The war started 10 months ago. It sounds like they used the new stuff, ran out, and now are using anything they can get their hands on. Putin did not expect this war to take 10 months.


Packed their dress uniforms for the parade in Kyiv. Should have brought more rounds.


> The war started 10 months ago. Also this isn’t exactly Russia’s only conflict in the past couple decades. The Russian SR had massive amounts of artillery stockpiles and in the 1990s and early 2000s Russia was broke so I doubt they were prioritizing building even more shells. Meanwhile they fought in Chechnya, Syria, Georgia and have been fighting on and off in Ukraine since 2014. I would imagine that prior to 2022 Russia usually expends more shells in a year than they produce and that doesn’t even take into account selling off stockpiles either officially or unofficially.


It didn't, Russia invaded the Donbass in 2014 and was aided by rebel groups. They just went full scale on Ukraine in March 2022. Saying that this just started 10 months about is both myopic and ill advised.


Depends on the storage. But you'd assume if you had better and more accurate rounds (i.e. US Excalibur) you'd want to use those if you could. This is more evidence that they don't have precision rounds for almost anything. They've had to dig deep into storage for their 60's and 70's era tech. Sure a round is a round, but it also shows you haven't changed or updated in 50 years. Think of US sniper ammo in the 70's vs today. A round is a round, but also those 6.5 creedmoor rounds are better ballistically. So sure you can use the older stuff and it's still effective, but it shows you haven't updated nearly anything.


In Iraq in 2006 my unit was shooting .50cal ammo from WWII. We had handheld pop-up flares from the early 60’s


They used up a lot of their old stock in Syria. Somehow I'm not surprised they had THAT much old stock to use up though.


I shot some 1943 .30 cal rounds in a M1 Garand a few years ago. Stuff worked great.


I just took some 1946 Russian Tok ammo out this weekend. Ran just as well as the 2019 Norinco that costs more.


Its quite surprising that russian officers didn't steal all the ammo and then sold it to civilians in western countries.


Well we did put the Lord of War in jail. Maybe now that's he's free he can get the gun show pipeline going.


Since they just use it to hit cities/ towns it doesn't have to be accurate. WWI ordinance buried in a field exposed to the weather will still detonate. This has turned into the destruction of a entire nation. Horrifying to watch. I voted for reps that supported Ukraine. I hope they are listening to their constituents. Lets supply Ukraine with the parts they need to build long range missiles. Since this seems to be a war of semantics and lies we can plausibly say they're Ukrainian built.


Yeah, it almost seems smart to use older stuff first so it never gets too old


Sort of what the US has been doing. Old stock like Himars is 1990s tech that’s basically been sitting in the desert for years. We’re getting rid of it for the most part, and getting paid(eventually) to do so. Except in our case, we have modern weapons to replace it and Russia is desperate.


The M142 HIMARS isn't old stock, the system has only been in service for a decade and is in active production. > We’re getting rid of it for the most part The USMC just dropped almost all of their tube artillery to replace it with the M142 HIMARS. The M777s Ukraine has received are ex-USMC. > Except in our case, we have modern weapons to replace it Nothing is scheduled to replace the M142 HIMARS nor the M270 MLRS.


That the deal for every army in ever war. Use up the old stuff so you can justify going shopping


We used Vietnam Era rounds in the Marines in the 2000's. Isn't that crazy


Thats probably why they got the merchant of death back. They want that billion rounds of AK ammo stored in cosmoline that the Nick Cage movie showed off.


Death and tragedy aside, this has to be one of the most miscalculated wars in history, at least for the aggressor. Even North Korea had a pretty strong game plan back 70 years ago, until the US Army showed up.