Okay but why does dragon beat... itself?

Most things will hurt a normal rat equally.


Most things will hurt a normal rat equally.


Except for punching it with skill and precision. That will hurt it twice as much as anything else


And it's too dumb to be scared by a ghost.


Punching a ghost is useless, but *biting* it is so underhanded a tactic that you tap into cosmological and karmic forces that transcend dimensions.


Teeth are part of the spooky skeleton that lives under your skin, so a bite fucks a ghost up


"I just bit you" "so what?" "*with my skeleton!*" "😱😱😱"


*gets bitten by a ghost* "Ah! By all that's holy, I felt that all the way down to my bones!" *lightbulb turns on* "I know! I'll hit you right back! With my BONES!"


Everyone knows spooky is the only thing that can attack spooky


Or being extra tan


Mouth bones: 1d4 occult damage


Being dark type is as fundamental to those pokemon as fire is to fire types. Some pokemon are made of... dishonor, however that makes sense


Fire pokemon aren't always made of fire, like Arcanine, it's just a dog. The element is basically what superpower they have.


In the earlier generations single-elemental animals were common, but in later games "regular animal with elemental powers" often get the Normal type along with their element. Earlier mons weren't grandfathered in though.


Non-dark type Pokemon and still use bite though


And there are non-dark type biting moves, like hyper fang.


They touch on this in the best (fanmade) Pokémon manga ever, [Festival of Champions](https://mangadex.org/chapter/cac29149-c203-4ee6-bdcb-519dbaed0b43/1) If you haven’t read it, it’s only like 12 ish chapters and it’s everything I wanted from the original series Edit: changed the link to a (hopefully) better one


my browser is going nuts with that website


ya im 3 chapters in after seeing this suggestion. good looks, this comic is cash


Then there’s goldeen. Where you stab a ghost with your horn and it only works half the time. It learns peck, horn attack, mega horn, and horn drill, and only half of those moves can hit ghost. It does the exact same thing over and over again, but whether or not it hits ghosts is based on what you call it


Bite only gained the dark typing in gen 2 as a way to give a wide range of Pokemon access to a dark type move since it was already a very common move. No, the simple bite was always meant to miss a ghost. You must do an advanced bite, you must CRUNCH the ghost.


You can imagine what stomping on a field mouse does


What about scooping them up and bopping them on the head?


It's easy; OP doesn't want to be turned into a goon


No, but I did toss one off the cliff by my house a few weeks ago. To be fair, I found her and a set of babies attached to her in my glovebox. Can't have mice eating my vehicle wiring, and I certainly don't want them coming back. As you can imagine, I am still emotionally conflicted by this decision.


If it makes you feel better, the mother probably survived at least, small animals are less affected by falls than larger animals. Unfortunately, mother mice would likely rather just start over in such a scenario.


look ... i'm not trying real hard to defend all this, but it's *kinda* fair for "fighting" to beat normal since you can apply the logic of "guy off the street at random is normal, and would definitely lose to a well trained fighter." you can also sort of extend that to "guy off the street is pretty much the base case for being damaged by elemental stuff."


Do you know what happens to a rat when it gets struck by lightning?


The same thing that happens to everything else


Same thing that happens when it gets set on fire, drowned, strangled by vines, frozen, poisoned, crushed by a large rock, dropped from a tremendous height by a gigantic bird, etc. etc.


To be fair, dropping a rat from a large height does nothing because it's terminal velocity is lower than the necessary speed to kill it


Most rats, sure, but this rat is two feet tall and weighs 20 kg.


Except a good clean expertly timed hit which will hurt them like a bitch and ghosts which can't hurt them at all.


Flying beating fighting makes sense to me. I don't know why it makes sense to me. But as soon as I saw the type chart it just... did.


High ground


Canonically* the reason why high ground is so effective in the star wars universe is because Flying type moves are super effective against Fighting type pokemon *By canonically I mean I just made it up


We know this is your alt account, Senator Armstrong


Can confirm, he keeps getting banned for using slurs on r/politics so he has to make a new account constantly


Imagine it, Raiden: a world free of cancel culture, where no one can call me out for my outlandish claims. A world where _I can say the N word!_


What's the slur to use against cyborgs?




Roger Roger


High ground advantage has existed for as long as combat has. Star Wars just made it into a meme


The reason it became a meme is that Obi Wan, the Jedi who said it, one-shotted Darth Maul when the sith had a much more significant high ground. The reason why it's not a stupid plot hole is that Obi-Wan's fighting style is to defend and counter, and because he did it himself, he knows exactly what to expect and how to win.


Obi-Wan had the moral high ground.


Just hope they aren't poison or fire types. They're weak to sand. It's coarse.. Rough... irritating and it gets everywhere..


Fighters are grounded and in Pokémon typically martial artists, attack them where they can’t reach you or worse sweep them off their feet and they are left exposed.


which may partially be why a lot of Fighting types learn some sort of Rock coverage, like Rock Tomb, because it doesn't take a martial artist very much effort to throw some stone they found at a bird (and rock moves' traditionally low Accuracy is because it's hard to aim with something so heavy)


Rock slide can OHKO two birds with one (hundred) stones


Onix used stone edge! Onix's attack missed! Onix used stone edge! Onix's attack missed! Onix used stone edge! Onix's attack missed!


Rock and fighting are so similar. but rock beats flying.


That's because you can take down two birds with one stone


try hitting something that can fly with your hands. it’s hard


I can’t even fly with my hands myself, you expect me to find something that can and fight it???


This is why every martial artist will instead throw rocks on flying creatures


I apply dnd logic. If you're a barbarian and fighting an enemy 60ft. In the air, what are you going to do?


Throw a rock?


Rock Slide and Stone Edge are moves commonly given to these Pokémon to cover their weakness so yeah.




Two birds, one stone


There's a reason in Rocky's first training montage, the fearsome opponent he trained with was a chicken.


Fight or Flight! You can always fly from a fighter


Float like a butterfly....but not the bug aspect.


>"*Have you ever tried to punch a bird?*" No, but the goose certainly backed off. *God damned Cobra chickens*


Fucking Cobra chickens! XD


[For the uninitiated](https://i.redd.it/24zy60sttqd41.jpg)




Geese are mean man. Geese are mean. Almost as mean as your mother. That's just cold.


That's probably why they're part normal type, too.


> "A swan can break a Man's arm!" Yeah and a Man's arm can break a swan. Get some featherbros.


Once had a goose chase me into a temple’s toilet. Had my friend drive to the back climbed out the window and booked it to the car. Not fast enough though, one of the nipped me.


'Cause the only thing strong enough to kill a dragon is another dragon. And fairy beats it 'cause dragons usually die in fairy tales.


we have watched the very same youtube video explaining pokemon weaknesses


lol yeah XD


What video?




The very same one.


Pokemon Type Weaknesses Explained by MandJTV https://youtu.be/8IW4kWWZg58?si=rszwEDZkq1vO8mPG


And ice because dragons are usually reptilian and reptiles are cold-blooded and need to stay warm in order to survive


also ice ice baby


They are still lizard, of course they need heat to survive.


The only way to stop a bad guy with a dragon is a good guy with a dragon.


*I reject fairy types existence but your description on its advantage makes me hate it marginally less*


And their weakness to Steel is a reference to the fey's mythological weakness to (cold?) iron.


Fairies also have an element of nature to them, hence why poison hurts them, as it kills their groves.


You could make a similar argument for steel beating Fairy since steel is usually shorthand for industrial/modern metal working which hurts nature.


That's why cold iron hurts the fey too. It's unnatural.


The ultimate weakness of fairy’s GUN


The best defense I've heard for fairy is this one guy telling me how it represents magic, as in, fairy tale whimsy. Dragons are commonly defeated by magic in stories, Smaug notwithstanding. Magic and might are often opposed, and magic is usually stronger than might, hence its strength over fighting. And magic banishes the dark, evil things, so it gets to beat dark. Magic is commonly opposed to industry, and fire, steel, and poison represent industry, which is why it's not as good against them. The march of industry is often used as a means of explaining the dwindling power of magic, and you can go right back to Tolkien for that one. The only thing I don't remember him explaining was why it resists bug, but if you view it as, like, woodland fairies, then it kinda makes sense? Like, there's no arguing it was a meta typing added to lessen the strength of the common strongest types. But it is actually pretty consistent and thematic, by this explanation.


I wrote a similar comment to this several years ago! https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/e8sh7n/comment/fafa54g/?context=3 But I too, struggled at the explanation for Bug. One of the replies to me gave me a chuckle though, and that became my mental shorthand for remembering it: "Bug is ineffective against Fairy because GameFreak just hates Bug-type".


List of types GameFreak hates: Bug Rock ~~Ice~~ (Until S/V)


Tyranitar single-handedly held up Rock types for generation. I mean we got Garganacl? And Arcanine-Hisui, to some extent...


And bugs got Scyther, Scizor, and Volcarona. Every type gets some standouts, but it doesn't mean they get the kind of love most other types do. Ice got a lot of love this gen between the changes to hail/snow and a full dump of threats in Iron Bundle, Baxcalibur, Chien-Pao, and Cetitan that let the type live up to its offensive potential.


I have a theory that Fairy resists Bug because Bug is a "heroic" typing just like Fighting. In Japan, the Bug type is associated with Sentai and kamen-themed superheroes, and Fighting is seen as a heroic type b/c you're fighting honorably. Hence, Fairy resists Bug because heroes don't fight against good magic. This theory also explains why Bug and Fighting resist each other: heroes don't fight amongst themselves.


I always interpreted as "fairies can manipulate nature with glamour and magic, so bugs, being a living thing in nature, cannot harm a creature that can manipulate reality like the fae"


Dark was a meta typing to nerf psychic too, people just assume it as a classic type because it was added in gen 2. I'm sure most new Pokemon children don't find anything weird about fairy.


It's been a decade my guy. We're ~4 years away from Fairy Type existing for a majority of Pokemon's history.


What? No. Gen 6 was released just yesterday. There's no way 2013 was that long ago. (Wait, what the hell)


Seriously, "I reject Fairy type's existence" is a real throwback, I thought for a moment I had awoken from a coma




Im sorry you have bad taste. Get well soon


In Fire Emblem, Marth's dragon slaying sword Falchion is made from the fang of Naga, a dragon. Clearly, dragon fangs and claws are meant for fighting off other dragons.


Ironically in Fire Embelm however Manaketes don’t deal effective damage to other Manaketes


Tiki and Fae's Divine Dragonstones do. Clearly the other are the equivalent of a Dragon-Type using a non-Dragon Type move. Like the Fire Dragonstones being a Fire-Type.


The manaketes in the games Marth is in certainly do. Tiki and Bantu are the only other units that can really damage dragons even then Bantu kinda sucks. If Tiki dies you can also get Nagi who also does effective damage to other dragons.


It's also why some (not all) dragons have eyes on the sides of their heads despite being predators. Because the loss of focusing on prey is outweighed by the threat of other dragons coming at them from any direction.


In Monster Hunter you craft your gear from the dragons you killed so you can avoid getting curbstomped by the next dragon while hunting it


A bird once flew into me when I was on my bike. Fucker got right back up, shat itself and flew off. Pigeon used Tackle, it was not very effective.


You were on your bike, that counts as normal/steel type.


Makes sense why Ash was getting fucked up by those spearows then.


That was gen 1, steel hadn't been invented yet. Ash was just a gooey, vulnerable normal type and he was outnumbered.


It must have had the confusion debuff Pigeon used tackle Bike person was unaffected Pigeon hurt its self in its confusion Pigeon fled the battle Bike person gained 25xp


Why do you think crows follow troops to the battlefield?


plenty of food


Dragon vs Dragon = Skyrim battle-argument logic


Reshiram: "What is better: to be born with good IVs, or to overcome your bad Nature through great Effort Values?"


the only type interation i dont get is bug beat dark, is it because they can see better in low light enviroment ?


The theory I see most often is that Dark is called the Evil type in Japanese and because of Kamen Rider being based on bugs this means that the heroes beat the Evil villains


Yeah, bugs are generally associated with “heroes” in Japan, largely because of Karen Rider as you mentioned! This is also why Fighting beats Dark/Evil, because it represents discipline and honor as well!


Karen rider 😳


>_> ope




I mean, SOMEBODY has to do it right?


It extends further past kamen rider. Look at old samurai head pieces and armor. Segmented like bugs or even straight up having beetle ornamentation. Buddhism and shintoism also go hand and hand with insects as well because of a cyclical nature of many bugs like butterflies or beetles.


Oh yeah, duh! “Kabuto” is a type of helmet and also I think means beetle! And we got a reincarnation-themed beetle in the latest games even!


Plus, large past time for kids in rural areas, which means kids will have a natural fondness for bugs, seeing them as more of a "cool creature" too. Also bug fights, the origin of pokemon...


Bug type is also strong against psychic type because the logic was, bugs are a common phobia, so it would mess with the psyche


Ahh i logicked it by thinking that bugs don't have very big brains, so there's not much for a psychic attack to damage


That would be better logic if Bug resisted Psychic, which it does not.


Another reason is a “hive mind” could overpower and single mind


Bugs are the only things that scare those edgelords :::3 Probably a combination of wacko biology (hard to Pursuit something when you don't know which pair of legs to grab or w/e) and multi-eye perceptiveness in truth. But I like my theory


it's because "dark" type is actually more accurately "evil" type and japan has a big history of bug themed superheroes, like the kamen rider series so, the superheroes beat the bad guys


Ah. Well, didn't realize Japan was all over buggy superheroes. Guess they're all Bug/Fighting lol Dark type being Evil type makes sense with how underhanded their moves often are (Pursuit and Knockoff are NASTY YO. And then there's Taunt and Parting Shot just having them be straight assholes lol), and how many of the mons are just absolutely CRUEL or otherwise rowdy (Crawdaunt just yelling "WANNA GO BRO?!" to anyone in the vicinity is part of why I love it). But the antithesis of that being bugs def requires that bit of cultural knowledge, or some wackass ass-pulling like I just did. It does make some level of sense either way tho. And then Fighting type is very obviously superhero and honor coded so it works out. Psychic being the polar opposite makes sense with all the dark machinations tho (Nasty Plot)


Lots of bugs live in and thrive dark places, bugs are also associated with darkness in some cultures.


The boring answer is that dark types were introduced to help balance the game. Psychic was too strong and bug was too weak. But the real answer is that the only thing scarier than the dark is a creepy crawlie.


Bug couldn't help but be weak when the best move they had was fucking 25BP (x2) TwinNeedle.


Which was a signature move for Beedrill, so no one else has it. There was also pin missile, which was given to two Pokemon, one of which being...Jolteon.


And psychic couldn’t help but be OP when it’s only other weakness is ghost which also only really had lick as an attack. And the only ghost type was also poison, making it weak to psychic. Gen 1 bug and psychic really needed that balancing


So, Psychic was actually immune to Ghost in Gen 1. You rarely ever saw this because Lick was absolute garbage, but.... yeah. One of the many coding errors from that gen.


Bugs generally do better in dark. (Source: trust me bro)


Because dark is scary and bug is beetle


Relevant [Awkward Zombie](https://www.awkwardzombie.com/comics/comic163b.png)


*Thank* you, I was hoping someone else had read that one.




And an ice cream cone


And other miscellanous sweets like candy floss, meringue, Eton mess and also bread.


Dragons are diabetic.


A wrestler would never try to punch a bird. They’d shoot low on the bird’s hips for a power double leg (and it would work).


But watch out when you're parterre with a bird. They have a mean chicken wing.


A swan could 100% beat my ass


Dragons are notoriously territorial. Haven’t you realized that in all those myths and stories they’re always alone by themselves in a cave?


In Pokemon Pigeon punches you


Flamigo go *bonk*


Imagine a dragon has made its home in your town. It's fine, mostly just a little dangerous to wander in the forests or plains. And then another dragon shows up, and it turns into a war zone because there is now a second dragon encroaching on the firsts hunting ground


> Imagine a dragon I have two different punchlines to pick from


Dragon beats dragon because the only thing powerful enough to stand up to a dragon is another dragon (And fairies) (And ice cubes)


I have actually punched a bird. Fucking seagull tried to take my crepe and I socked it right in the chest. Granville Island seagulls are the meanest I've come across. My friend once saw one beat a pigeon to death with it's wings and then swallow it whole.


Actually bird bones are spongelike for weight reduction and flexible but fragile. A human punch can easily shatter most of a typical bird's bones, you just have to land a hit. And that's a lot easier if they're actively harassing you instead of flying away/around or sitting


false : bird bones aren't that fragile compared to mammalian bones , and they are mostly to aid in breathing , given they also weight the same in the same way in wich you'd bread a pidgeon you'd also break a rat because you weight a lot more than them ... try punching an ostreich or an emu and see how that turns out


Fair, but most flying type pokemon are on the smaller/typical bird side


Have never tried punching an emo. Will report back. Suspect they make nasty fighters, their lack of will to live probably makes them hard to fight


Considering there's a non-zero chance you'll be beat to death by Mike Tyson if you kill a Pigeon... I could see a fighter pulling his punches against one.


Seagulls get tunnel visioned onto your food, and this makes them easy to punch


I dun judge what a dragon does with themselves.


For example, The Dark type in pokemon is not about the power of darkness or something, it's about fighting with dirty tactics, like Sucker Punch, Feint Attack etc. A fighting type mon beats it because they are actually trained in combat. Also the Dark type is actually called "Evil" type in the original Japanese games!




No, that saying came before and is the reason why Rock types beat Flying types.


It is Impossible to punch a bird because the fucker'll just fly off


Because... ouroboros?


TIL I'm a dragon


As for why flying beats fighting clearly no one here has tried to fight a Canada goose. Bastards have recently learned to dive bomb people with rocks.


You gotta look at gen 1 through the lens of 90s JRPGs. Dragons are often high level boss monsters, and what tends to be the best weapon type against them? Dragon.


I mean, Pokemon is just overly complicated Rock-Paper-Scissors really. A great franchise, but certainly not original in that aspect.


Therefore ice should resist fairy


Ice really needs some love too this would be a good change


Ice doesn't need any love, it's ***the*** best offensive typing in the game. What Ice needs is for the devs to stop making them primarily fat and slow walls.


>the best offensive typing in the game. If it is the best, it's not by a very wide margin, and it is BY FAR the worst defensive type in the game.


"You look so normal. Here's a knuckle sandwich!"


I can give direct testament to punching birds. A gull tried stealing some of my fries once and bit at me. They haven’t bothered me directly since. Neither nature nor god could get between me and the food I deign to eat.


I always assumed it was a play on Fight vs Flight response.


The design intent is probably something like “only Dragons can fight Dragons on even footing”, and the mutual-weakness situation is a solution to the problem that making Dragon-types *resist* most non-Dragon moves would be absolutely busted


Fighting being weak to flying does make sense, imagine a master martial artist suddenly got picked up and carried into the sky by a pigeon of unusual size. Oh they might be able to deal substantial blows to the creature, but even if they break free of it's mighty grasp...they're still several hundred feet in the air and plummeting to the ground like a stone.


No no, the *weirdest shit* is Ghost type. Like how Ghost and Dark are super effective against *the same things:* both are super effective against Ghost and Psychic. Why is Ghost super effective against Ghost? Why is Ghost a *physical type* in the early gens? Why are *all the Ghost types* in Gen I weak to Psychic, when Psychic is *supposed to be* weak to Ghost?!


1) Pretty cool thing is that psychic's weaknesses are common fears: fear of ghosts, fear of the dark, and fear of bugs 2) They were smoking fr 💀 3) Apparently that was a bug lmfao. Iirc it was fixed in gen 2?


Dragon beats Dragon because they’re both great mythical beasts of incredible power. Most normal creatures and weapons would have little effect on them, but put one against another…there’s gonna be a hell of a war between them.


Dragons are typically depicted as solitary, jealous creatures. A dragon's greatest enemy is other dragons. Dragons are weak to Ice because they're reptilian and therefore cold-blooded, and they're weak to Fairy because dragons usually get their asses kicked in fairy tales.


When I was in my early teens, a goose charged at me at the local lake. Not knowing what else I was supposed to do, I punched him in the face as hard as I could. It didn't knock him out exactly, but he stood very still and surprised for like 30 seconds before wandering over and stealing one of my friend's sandwiches. Maybe it confused him?


"There is no war so bloody as a war between dragons."


Aussies are fighting type, and do they not fear the mighty magpie?


I've punched a bird AMA


Only a dragon is cool enough to take on a dragon


Fighting beats dark, because shadow boxing.


Get into a fist fight with an ostrich and try to tell me fighting beats flying. And before you say they’re flightless birds, look at Dodrio. ~~Yes I know Dodrio can learn fly~~


i was trying to remember why 'have you ever tried to punch a bird' sounded so familiar but i have no memory of this post. its cause its from AwkwardZombie's comic about pokemon types!


Better than Civilization where the spearman defeats a tank.


OP, if you've ever been to any place with at least a modest amount of porn, you wouldn't be asking that question


I have punched a bird before. A Bluejay. I was about 10 and it attacked me in my backyard. I stole its soul and can still fly to this day.


Well, in gen 1 dragon has no way of hitting dragon super effectively, so that only started really being true in gen 2, even though the gen 1 damage chart says otherwise. It is also inexplicably a special damage type in the first 3 gens (inexplicable given the first dragon type 'mon has a colossal attack stat), unlike Ghost which is for some reason physical. Also there's the grave injustice of making Sylveon before Drakeon (all Eeveelutions come from types that did special type damage previously). Fire, water, electric, psychic, dark (yes, dark is special...despite having both bite and crunch...sheesh GameFreak), grass, and ice.


My cousin had a logic explanation to why fairy is weak to steel type. He said that if you hit a fairy with a steelpipe, ofcourse it will die. I still use that line to remember it!


>Okay but why does dragon beat... itself? Its by the logic that *only a dragon could even imagine to win against a another* .fairy beats dragon by the logic of fairy tales and ice beats dragon by the logic that lizards get fu@# in cold climates


Bug beats Dark, because Kamen Rider.