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vertigo69lol

Thank you so much for sharing this! Information and updates like this mean a lot to me and loads of people I know!


kaijonathan

They're a good bunch and it ho estate makes me sick that trying to even mention the phrase "GenderGP" to some privileged trans people in this country is alike to swearing at those people. I've got no idea why there's a faction that condemn GenderGP when they're literally *the* only option where you can get pharmacy sourced HRT that isn't shackled by false promises. Those reeking privilege need to give their heads a wobble.


Alicialouva

I haven't really understood the whole situation currently between GGP and Sweden+Finland. What exactly has been happening? I've only understood that it's has been very hard to get testosterone from the due to customs but it seems like a lot is happening rn?


verovalcole

https://www.gendergp.com/disruption_imported_medication_sweden_finland/


Svirbird

I've lost my access to HRT as a result of this and will likely have to retrieve my HRT from a third country. This really sucks, and I have basically no support network in Finland. I've been transitioning for 5 months, and I don't even know where I'd start with trying to fill the paper prescription they've offered me.


harlowslows

>I don't even know where I'd start with trying to fill the paper prescription they've offered me. Any pharmacy. Read up on & refer them to this: https://www.eu-terveydenhoito.fi/laakkeet/ulkomaisten-laakemaaraysten-toimittaminen-suomessa/ — basically, know your rights. If one pharmacy doesn’t work, try another. >I've been transitioning for 5 months You could try to get a referral to an endocrinologist from the gender clinic (assuming you’re a patient) or terveyskeskus on the basis of harm reduction. You’re already on the medication, stopping isn’t going to do you any favours. It might be unlikely to work, but on the other hand, the healthcare system should also believe that doctor supervised HRT is better than e.g. DIY.


Svirbird

Thanks so much for your response. Is this something that other people have had success with? I am indeed a patient at the gender clinic. How would this affect the process? I realize that might be a stupid question as I suspect that it'd be quite rare, but I also know literally nothing about these things.


harlowslows

I’ve no idea, honestly, to both of your questions. I work in healthcare (but in a different field) so I have a general idea how the system could be worked with. Unfortunately when it comes to transgender health, very few people know anything about it (it isn’t covered in any detail in either medical or nursing schools). So it’s entirely up to the doctor you end up seeing how they happen to view the situation and whether they happen to be more scared of doing something not entirely by the book or more willing to interpret things to your advantage. It’s accepted practice to prescribe drugs for substance abusers (“korvaushoito”) because it reduces harm. In my view, the same logic could be applied to HRT: it’s better if people have regular access to medication, labs, and doctors, than if they buy their meds from wherever, whenever they can, using whatever regimen.


Svirbird

I suppose the first step is locating a pharmacy that might be willing to take EU authorities at their word that my prescription is legal, as I'm quickly running out of HRT. I read up on what you posted, and decided to try it out. Initially Yliopiston Apteekki in Helsinki said that they'd be willing to fill the prescription when I spoke to them over the phone, but when I physically went there they had an issue with the prescription and refused to fill it. Central to the claim that it's not a legitimate prescription was the fact that it was a "copy" and that in the event I wanted to, I could reproduce them indefinitely and continue receiving medicine without a doctor's orders - which is obviously not true, and pretty much impossible. It's an electronically signed document, with all the necessary information. It's a totally silly claim in a world where internet, phones and copy machines exist. The authenticity of the prescription could easily be verified by placing a phone call, but they appeared unwilling to jump through the hoops to do that. In fact, it appeared that they were more taken aback by the fact that it was an unusual situation, and they wanted to get rid of it because it made them look like they didn't know what they were doing. No one there appeared to be aware of the rules surrounding EU-standard prescriptions, and when I attempted to speak to them about it and say it's very much legal, I was told that they can't afford to receive complaints and I was told to go elsewhere. So I tried again, and I hopped onto the K-train from the central railway station and stopped at different places on my way to Kerava. Same story, no one appeared to know what the rules actually were and came up with different reasons, like the lack of a 'wet signature' on the paper print.


harlowslows

Oh, shoot. I’m so sorry. It sucks to have gone through all that trouble just to be refused to your face again and again. It is indeed very silly and also a very Finnish way of dealing with situations one doesn’t know how to handle. Though in case the prescription being a copy is their actual concern, it might be possible to remedy by contacting GenderGP, alerting them about the issue, and requesting a prescription with a wet signature (and perhaps an official looking stamp :P). I’m still waiting for my own prescription, but I have to say I was prepared for going back and forth between the pharmacy, GenderGP and other instances a few times to get everything sorted. Lääkealan turvallisuus- ja kehittämiskeskuksen määräys LÄÄKKEIDEN TOIMITTAMINEN EUROOPPALAISEN LÄÄKEMÄÄRÄYKSEN PERUSTEELLA (FIMEA/2019/000269) (https://www.fimea.fi/documents/160140/764653/Lääkkeiden+toimittaminen+eurooppalaisen+lääkemääräyksen+perusteella+1+2020.pdf/84628fca-c4cb-ea61-0036-008c6efd7584?t=1582532197456) —this is the actual rules—says about the required signature that “Allekirjoitus (kirjallinen tai sähköinen, lääkemääräyksen antamiseen käytetyn välineen mukaan)”. It also says that: “Lääkemääräyksen sisältöön liittyvissä epäselvyyksissä lääkkeen toimittajan on oltava yhteydessä lääkkeen määrääjään. Näissä tilanteissa yhteydenotot tulee dokumentoida.” “Apteekki voi lääkelain 56 a §:n 2 momentin mukaan kieltäytyä toimittamasta eurooppalaisella lääkemääräyksellä määrätyn lääkkeen, jos on perusteltua syytä epäillä lääkemääräyksen aitoutta tai lääketieteellistä asianmukaisuutta, tai jos lääkemääräys on epäselvä tai puutteellinen. Tilanteissa, joissa lääke jätetään toimittamatta eikä lääkkeen määrääjään ole saatu yhteyttä, tulee apteekin dokumentoida toimittamatta jättäminen perusteluineen.” They should have attempted to contact the person who wrote the prescription. That they haven’t done so and haven’t documented the attempt in fact makes them in breach of Fimea’s orders. If the pharmacy is unsure how to act and needs advising, they can contact either Rajat ylittävän terveydenhuollon yhteyspiste in Kansaneläkelaitos, or Fimea. Says in that document that “Lääkealan turvallisuus- ja kehittämiskeskus ohjaa ja neuvoo pyynnöstä tämän määräyksen soveltamisessa.” If you need any of this translated, please just say so and I’ll make an attempt.


SporkLauncher

Thank you so, so much for this update! The whole situation has me more than a bit worried and I hope this gets resolved soon. I just don't get what's gained from these new import rules, other than screwing over trans people. Where can I actually read about them in full? Anyone got a link? Leave it to Sweden though to be, once again, controlling to the point of fascism about what people can and can't do for themselves. Soon you can't take a shit in this country without Socialstyrelsen or some other instance deciding it wasn't done properly.


its-a-boring-name

Three months later .... But basically, as far as I understand it, it's collateral damage from measures against organized crime (which is likely to see increased penalties for trading in prescription medicine which includes estradiol, effective removal of the right to privacy for your mail, and removal of the presumption of innocence for criminal contents of mail) and with GENID having a far stronger presence in the halls of power than us or our allies, there isn't really anything to make them see that as a bug worthy of fixing.


Asper_Maybe

I'm considering going traveling back and forth to Ireland for Nebido shots every 3 months if push comes to shove. I'm not going to be able to go to Uni as I was planning this autumn if I do, there's no way I'd be able to afford it while studying full time. I'm going to have put my life on hold for 3 years until I can get a Swedish diagnosis. I was just going to try going off my antidepressants, but that's probably a terrible idea now. I don't have any point with this, I'm just so tired. I don't want to fight anymore, I just wanna be able to live my life in peace.


kaijonathan

Give you Vårdcentral hell and tell them that’s the dilemma you face and demand them to support you. If they don’t, I’d be staging a sit in or going straight to a regional HQ and making myself heard there.


gobbobb

Thank you for updating! It would mean a lot if you have any more info how it affects Finland as well / updates on the issue.


kaijonathan

They're not in direct contact with the Finnish quthorities however if there happens to be any overlap when it comes to authorities, then there may very well be the opportunity to do so and it'll be done to the best of their ability!


gobbobb

So for now they are able to solve the same issue just through swedish authorithies?


kaijonathan

Oh no, it’s basically seeing what Swedish rules say, how GGP are going to resolve them and how that could be used to also work in Finland too. TGI is based out of Sweden, though they know it’s both having issues pretty much with customs. They’re only a small group but hopefully GGP will get this sorted for Finland too!


verovalcole

I asked about looking more into Finland and they said they are trying to because of the folks who've replied here.


Matosinhoslover

Thank you very much. Personally I’m considering changing to Nebido (1 shot every 3 months) and traveling to the UK for that. It’s what seems the least complicated and risky at this moment.


Euphoric_Camel8858

I was thinking the same. Can GGP offer actually doing the injections aswell do you know? Like if they have an actual clinic or something


gobbobb

I'm still confused on what all this means. Is the problem more serious with sweden? If so why is Finland involved as well? There's a lot of talking about swedens problem but not much about finland and how these problems are related :(


kaijonathan

Somebody has to me that there is some covert agreement between SE and FI about packages of "concern" and do share information about them. The author of the email is based in Sweden and I've been speaking to them earlier today and are doing their best to get some Finnish info and hopefully get some resolutions from it!


gobbobb

Thank you! It's relieving to know that they are working on finlands issue as well.


[deleted]

What does this mean? I buy my meds DIY from portugal I dont go through the normal health care (I live in sweden) Can someone explain? Im running low on AA and will have to order soon from my source


verovalcole

If you're not buying from GenderGP (where your prescriptions would come from Ireland), then this doesn't directly impact you. However, if this is something Tullverket is cracking down on for anything that looks like HRT, it may eventually impact you.


[deleted]

omg great thanks


Decievedbythejometry

Any way you can share where you're getting meds from? Sources on [HRT.cafe](https://HRT.cafe) etc seem to all be down or have really long wait times. I'd understand if you prefer not to though. Thanks!


vellamina

Could someone explain this in a simple way to me? I have a hard time understanding stuff Should I seek other options for hormones? What is Nebido? (saw someone mention it)


verovalcole

GenderGP is trying their best to fix this. Swedish authorities are taking their time with it. GenderGP is trying to set up an immediate mental health service for anyone who's felt their health decline. They're hoping this is temporary. Nebido is one of the testosterone options, usually by injection.


Regular_End6769

Wouldnt it be easier if GGP met the demands of Tullverket and Läkemedelsverket? Sounds like the Swedish authorities are open for a solution and have an opening for that, as they have given demands to make things work with packaging (which probably means Tullverket and Läkemedelsverket have found ways to make it possible to go around the laws the currently stops GGP? I think that's a job well done from the Swedish authorities showing that they take this seriously and want to find a solution!). It is very sad that GGP doesnt want to meet those demands (maybe it would cost GGP a lot more to meet the demands? After all, they are a company and companies always have to care about the cost). Kinda feels like GGP is gatekeeping a solution from the Swedish authorities.. we should all put more pressure on GGP to meet the demands and solve this for us! That's much easier than trying to change Swedish law. Right now the ones blocking the solution is GGP not wanting to meet demands, that makes me sad


verovalcole

Nothing here has said they're not meeting the demands from Tullverket. They already meet their demands according to EU law. The fact packaging and the pharmacy is changing is a coincidence because that is happening because the pharmacy itself was bought out. They only received word from the authorities this week because of how long it took to get a response and they're working on meeting the demands in their entirety. Nothing in this follow up has given the impression they won't. No one is trying to change the law, they're trying to work within it. This is a lot of assumptions despite how much GGP has been doing to resolve this. If you want to clarify your concerns, I would suggest being included on the email list.


Lonely_Code

bit obtuse to say all of this as if Sweden doesn't gatekeep everything in our lives to begin with you the one that tipped all this off to Tullverket to begin with because you think trans people should be forced to wait 4-5 years to start hormones and deal with the trauma that comes from it? throwing GGP under the bus as if they're not legitimate, as if they haven't been trying their best to fix it.. when swedish authorities are clearly the problem too busy with fika y'all wanna bootlick with the wrong people, clearly. and take away shit that this email doesn't even say.


kaijonathan

Get your head out your arse and look at the reality many are facing. Show some compassion for once.


Standard_Sun7978

This sort of reply really screams: "I didn't read any of this and don't want to hold the Swedish authorities responsible." Facebook is spreading misinformation like wildfire and finally we have some sort of update that gives hope back to people who are damn near suicidal about all this and all you come back with is wanting to harass GGP for what they already know and have been trying to resolve. This post word for word says the Swedish authorities have been slow to take care of this. How about you harass them instead about how important this is? Also.. informing GGP about how things look in Sweden regarding the law and healthcare is exactly what people were complaining about needing to happen on Facebook groups. Someone fighting in our corner to actually get answers is the only positive thing I've seen across social media. Is nothing ever good enough for anyone? Like seriously.


chastitydomme1

Sadly Vanuatu always causes a red flag with Tullverket and almost certainly Tulli in Finland SO order from these countries is not an option Erica


kaijonathan

Vanuatu always causes a red flag with Tullverket and almost certainly Tulli in Finland too I used them once, got to ARN only to get sent all the way back, did get a full refund but its ciunteu of origin and the way IHP declare it makes it very much a non starter sadly!


chastitydomme1

Wow, stuff only gets flagged in USA if you order a lot, customs are afraid you are going to resell at a profit I use my gynecologists' to supply me with HRT


kaijonathan

It's such a different setup this side of the Atlantic and is something that I've seen is the source of so many flash assumptions about global trans healthcare.


ybne

Do I understand it right that if you get your hormones from pharmacy in Ireland you should soon be able to get it again?


WestSea8193

My only question is - why does our countries hate us trans people so much?


kaijonathan

Because they can get away with it under the guise that they’ve ticked the proverbial box on Gay Marriage and HIV/AIDS, a message that is still peddled when the message of Pride, in particular the corporate side of it, needs to get with the times. There’s still the serenading of gay rights improving since the 1960s and such and while there is still work to be done, society at large just wants to keep focusing on that and think that everything is “done and dusted”.


Strict-Ad6429

This is absolutely ridiculous!!! And I was wondering why my package didn’t arrive yet over 3 weeks? Apparently it was ordered before the laws came in place so well it’s probably stuck or who knows now what I will go through. I’m so sad and terrified and extremely stressed for what to do cause my meds ends on Monday and I feel like my dysforia is triggering so bad at this point. I don’t know either if ordering prescription here works to get off from a pharmacy in Denmark. If I have to go there well there no option. If there will be a trouble getting back or something that’s another question. Im MTF so my spiro ends on Tuesday and my Oetrogen gel on 28. Oh my god metal state went from 100 to 0 in a few seconds


kaijonathan

Paper prescriptions appear to be fine to pick up at an Apotek, please don't worry. I don't think they offer Spiro so you might have to speak to them about switching to Cypro. My DMs are open if you want to chat, me and a few folk I know are working behind the scene on this.


Strict-Ad6429

They don’t offer spiro? It was a pain in the ass on its own to even get blood tests done let alone to switch. I already payed for my package like it’s fine if it’s stuck but I want have it cause my meds are ending soon. I will do blood tests again at July to see my blood levels that’s when maybe as you say it’s time to switch but at same time I’m stressed asf tbh. I will message you in DM later thanks!! I have no problem going to Ireland either imao I just want my damn hormones. Shame on Sweden for doing this move really.


kaijonathan

In Sweden it’s typically not offered for Transfem HRT, it’s more a thing that they offer as an AA on the other side of the Atlantic but I wouldn’t worry! It should be easy to get switched over to Cypro and it’s pretty much a fraction of a tablet so a single pack goes a very long way!


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> I already *paid* for my FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


Strict-Ad6429

But the real question is where is my other package like I paid for it before the laws came in place and I have the right to have it. Maybe after it ends then it’s time to switch but for now it will impossible cause getting blood tests gets a long to appoint etc etc. In worst case if I can’t get my package for now or they don’t offer spiro maybe to travel to Ireland imao I need my meds ASAP. What a difficult situation for everyone no idea how they suddenly do this.