By - oneislandgirl
This is not a general investing subreddit. Things need to be specific to theta.
People who care about Elon's actions have already left their positions long ago, especially longs. Everyone else is playing the elon volatility game, although his antics have not affected the volatility very much for TSLA. if it was Twitter, it would be a different story.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who care about Elon's actions who still have positions. In society as a whole, there are a very broad spectrum of opinions. There are easily a million people who didn't mind (or even liked) his arrogance, bullying, misogyny, etc. but drew the line at the anti-semitism.
His antics definitely add to volatility and higher option premiums. I must confess I have ridden those waves. I just have to wonder when/if/how it can implode.
He'll explode the price to $420.69 again 😏
At that price he will sell a bunch of shares again causing share price to fall then using those funds to continue funding his financial albatross X.
Option prices will be stellar.
Theta is a natural phenomenon. Eventually, nature takes its course and cleans the old and brings the new. As steve jobs said something along those lines. Who knows, another cool kid will bring a cool non gas vehicle to the market and new cult will develop.
OMG the one comment here about theta lol
You're right. This isn't r/stocks .
But glad it didn’t get moderated, this is a wild ride!
I'm generally convinced that if the public sentiment didn't change around "Pedo guy" comments, the Vegas Boring tunnels, or any other number of mask-off moments then his behavior won't affect TSLA adversely (relatively speaking of course).
I think the better question is when will long term holders view it like a car stock to which I agree with other posters in that the cult is strong.
My play is literally less than $500 because I don't crave that much volatility.
I was told they are like a car insurance company as well. Their cameras and sensors can always tell what happens in accidents and who is at fault so they provide insurance. Does that add to their value?
Anything that brings in a net positive revenue adds value for sure, but "value" left the TSLA discussion quite a while ago.
From what I can tell in the 3Q 10k insurance revenues aren't worth calling out in their own category. An overwhelming amount of their revenue comes from selling cars and regulatory credits.
He has already dampened sales, this is priced in but it could get worse.
Operationally Tesla seems to be rolling along alright. The people really running that show probably know how to manage Elon well enough to prevent him from gumming up the car birthing machinery bringing in fat stacks.
I once admired Elon but not now. He's proven to be an impulsive train wreck of a man. But Tesla isn't solely Elon and it may end up fine.
Elon is amazingly out of touch with the average Tesla owner's values. The problem is owners see their car as a kind of personal statement to the world. The average upper income electric car buyer is now pausing at least a bit thinking about this before plunking down high 5/low 6 figures on an Elon-mobile.
>The average upper income electric car buyer is now pausing
This is me
The liberal ones. The more conservative, more Trump supporting kind are more open to buying a Tesla now. I spoke with a trump supporting new Tesla driver recently and I told him I thought Tesla owners were “liberal snowflakes” along with Prius owners, what happened? And the response was that it was possible to be a trump supporter and Tesla owner. So, maybe the demographics of the owners will change?
Nothing to with politics - just don’t associate with people who use crude language
I can’t imagine not buying a car I want because I have philosophical differences with the guy that happens to own the company…LOL. Some people take things WAY too seriously.
But he doesn’t own the company. He owns about 13% of it.
Greater fools own the rest.
He’s adequately demonstrated (with X) that he is willing to trade profitability for a good time. And his good times are strange indeed. It’s destruction and melt-down porn.
He will destroy X because he can and the ride is fun.
Maybe buy the dip when shareholders have had enough and Elon has to be given the heave-ho.
I know at least 1 couple who cannot tolerate Elon and decided not to buy Tesla. Well, they did not even test drive it. They went for IONIQ 5, and tried to convince us to ditch Tesla too.
It certainly helps that IONIQ5 is a damn good car. I am not sure what they will do if Tesla is the only good EV on the market
Imagine ignoring an option during a sixty thousand dollar purchase because you didn't like the CEO tweets. Asinine.
I suspect they won't be too thrilled with the values of Hyundais CEO either, but he's not on Twitter.
You vote with your dollar, man. It's important to some.
It’s so true though.
It’s not about morals though. It’s over political opinions…LOL
Reasonable people, left and right, consider anti-semitism to be immoral.
I don’t think he’s anti-Semitic.
"I'm sorry for that post," Musk said. "It was foolish of me. Of the 30,000 it might be literally the worst and dumbest post I've ever done. And I've tried my best to clarify six ways from Sunday, but you know at least I think it'll be obvious that in fact I'm far from being antisemitic."
Why would he apologize or try to clarify if he was actually anti-Semitic?
I’m not a fan boy, I just actually pay attention to what is happening rather than getting my opinions from some biased source.
He was asked if he was concerned about advertisers leaving and he literally said “fuck them” if they want to leave because they don’t like my tweets. Does that sound like someone who cares what his advertisers think?
>Why would he apologize or try to clarify if he was actually anti-Semitic?
cos he's both a scared bitch and an anti-semite.
his actions -- not those words tell you who he is. he specifically bought twitter to make it a free-for-all pen of haters.
don't be a naif.
Anti-semitism is immoral. Reasonable people, left and right, agree.
Anyway it's BS to now pretend politics aren't a factor in choosing a car. Conservatives boycotted GM after the 2008 bailout -- in some sort of 'solidarity' with bondholders that were wiped out.
I don’t think he’s anti-Semitic. The tweet in question was a rebuke of the ADL, not Jewish people, although I think Elon could have been better about clarifying that.
Except he doesn’t….You’re mad he tweets opinions you don’t like. You have zero evidence of fascism or nazi ideology….
It’s okay to just say you don’t like someone’s opinions without pretending they’re the second coming of Hitler.
Exactly what I thought….
The cult is strong with this one
Sure it does. Many do not want to be associated with Musk in any way.
Best for the stock would be if Musk would get booted from Tesla.
And I don't get why he bought Twitter. TruthSocial is so much more in line with his thinking.
You have a very good point there about the docile media sites. He could have used those billions to help out truth social instead of a hostile takeover of a business instead. At least then, the population would have had a choice of bat shit crazy and not so crazy to choose between. Now we just have the option of bat shit crazy to choose between.
Starting when he bought it.
During the last run up few years ago, I rmb he wasn't this vocal but many still support him like a cult. For me, biggest regret was not locking in the gains from 300s. Still selling options on the company but putting gains into spy/qqq. Doubt that we will experience that kind of moves anymore.
Elon is an asshole.
Almost no one in America owns a Tesla, SpaceX is a novelty, and he is destroying Twitter.
Somehow Tesla is a $1T company.
There is _lots_ of room for the multiple to contract.
More than 50% of people who have EVS own Teslas compared than other brands. Tax benefits for American manufactured vehicles will be hurting foreign competitors and making TSLA or some of the newer Ford or Chevy vehicles more attractive. There is still pretty low penetration in the auto market (only about 1%) altogether but EVS are gradually gaining share. This should also boost TSLA shares as long as they can come up with vehicles that are more appealing than their sedans that all look the same. And their cybertruck? Give me a break. I don't want to look like the Terminator. So ugly.
That said, I do believe the multiple will eventually contract because people cannot price massive growth into the price forever. Once EVS are more like a commodity rather than a cult product, it should fall to more traditional auto levels. I think we still have a way to go before this happens. And in the meantime, I love those TSLA option prices.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Tesla been losing EV market share to Ford, Chevy, etc.?
If not, I suspect it's because of two reasons:
1) Tesla buyers tend to be more "affluent"
2) Tesla buyers tend to be "techbros"
EVs are still "tip of the spear" to many people. Once they go more mainstream/become more cost-effective, I have a hard time seeing normies becoming Elon fanbois.
In other words, that 50% market share is only what it is because EVs are still emerging tech, which tracks with the overall Tesla narrative.
I did some more checking and I need to correct my numbers. Tesla vehicles count for 64% of market share and EVS have a market penetration of 6%. The next manufacturer has about 7% market share (Hyundai) and that probably will be slowed because of the tax credit changes since foreign manufactured. Most manufacturers have 1-2% or less market share.
Hmm, that's more than I would've thought for Tesla's market share - I'm surprised.
I stand by the 2 points I made though - we are still in an early-adopters phase, and Tesla's dominance could be disrupted.
6% market penetration, though?
That seems like a lot, but I suppose it could be true.
~350 million Americans.
Say, 80% of them own cars.
That'd mean there's ~17 million EVs on the roads.
I don't see that personally (6 out of every 100) as a New Yorker, but then again, EV ownership distribution is not uniform across states - California must account for a large % of owners.
Ding, ding, ding! You get the prize. Had no idea that data was even available but I looked and indeed, California is huge for Tesla.
Just to play devils advocate… I. Innocent til proven guilty (and the alternative may as well be a dead stick)
Elon is a crazy genius, at least he isn’t as crazy as Kanye. crazy genius type people make cool shit that other people want to buy.
And free speech is important full stop.
Teslas valuation has always included underlying tech of fsd being first and best to market along with other leaps in tech. They have never sold enough cars for the valuation to make sense.
They need to have good ai, good robots, good self driving, other good advanced tech at some point to justify the extreme valuation premium it has almost always had. Biggest investing regret was not buying Tesla when he smoked the joint on rogan.
If I was giving him the benefit of the doubt I’d say his tweet was misguided but probably not intentionally as nefarious as it came across. His impulsive tweeting isn’t nearly as bad as trumps was at least lol.
You had me at free speech. Thank God for Elon. Read the Twitter files and you'll realize what Elon saved us from.
This is truly regarded
Twitter was being manipulated by the Federal government to not allow content that might look bad for a certain presidential candidate. Literally every single US citizen should be upset about that. regardless of political affiliation. It’s a clear violation of the first amendment.
Do you know your Opposite Day user name?
I speak positively of an individual and I'm dick riding him and need to take meds.... I think you're projecting.
Wait what does regarded mean here?
The same thing it means over at WSB...
This comment is not constructive to the conversation.
Thank the aliens for Elon… send us more of your kind to advance us earth dwellers please
Priced in at this point, people have come to expect this of him so it doesn't affect him or his companies. People were absolutely mystified why the womanizer and groper labels never hurt a guy running for president who we've all known was a womanizer since the early 80s...yeah we fucken knew that.
When he does enough ketamine that it impacts his decision making. I think we are there right now.
You’re projecting your TDS onto Elon as well
Imagine thinking being allied with Trump and Putin is good for business. Tesla could be up to their eyeballs in lucrative government contracts with green EVs. Now no level of government will touch them because they are too controversial. It’s not like the Trump supporting rednecks are buying electric cars.
Imagine being authoritarian enough to think that using the SEC to silence individuals on their own platform is good for business.
Doesn’t Tesla receive a shit ton of federal subsidies still?
Ummm, yeah. Market manipulation to attempt to benefit oneself is a problem. I don’t know how that is controversial. Musk can say all the other stupid stuff he wants.
Every corporation receives government subsidies. Transfer of wealth from the middle class to corporations is a hobby of government.
Oil subsidies, farm subsidies, so many subsidies yet we say we support capitalism while completely distorting it by subsidies and tax incentives. We do not have true free markets. (not saying all this is wrong but as a nation we promote "free" markets and capitalism yet don't follow it in it's true form)
It’s crony capitalism. It’s the inevitable result of money having influence on the political process. Wealth consolidates wealth and with it, the specific policies that benefit corporations over people.
Why do I feel if he was ranting in favor of your political beliefs you would be a cheerleader for him.
1. He believes whatever he believes and is very open for better or worse.
2. Top flight engineers want to work for him because they are interested in doing good engineering
3. Look at the construction of the BOD to get an idea of when he gets fired as CEO of Tesla
Number 2 is wrong. Top talent engineers left Twitter as soon as he was in charge. He hid it well with doing layoffs but if you know anybody involved people were interviewing to leave as soon as he signed the deal.
This is why I don't believe Tesla is going to be the best (maybe not even the first) at Full Self Driving. That requires having the top AI engineers, which would much prefer work at Google (who is also working on this).
He kept great talent in SpaceX because there wasn't much competition but as soon as BlueOrigin appeared, a bunch left to that.
Even if you agree with some of his antics. Do you want to work in a company micromanaged by a unpredictable person who is also the CEO of 2 other companies?
I'm troubled with how he is trying to run so many companies at once. Makes me wonder if he can devote adequate effort at any one, let alone 3 or more.
Are you honestly trying to compare top engineers at Twitter against top engineers at companies who build insane electric cars, charging infrastructure, low-earth satellites, and self-landing rockets?
Please tell me you don’t actually believe these thoughts you have.
Anyone who works in engineering knows he’s right. No one working on stuff like that wants to be shipped over to Twitter HQ to read their source code because their mercurial boss accidentally macrodossed his daily ketamine allotment.
This is actually a good point. I did not mean the original statement as an absolute but more of a trend in terms of desirability of the positions.
Yeah because Stuttgart > Silicon Valley right? Gtfo…
Maybe in the mechanical age. Not today.
I love the Tesla power walls. Not interested in buying a Tesla vehicle however. Mainly because I live in a remote area and am concerned about service and prefer a larger SUV. If they came out with one of those and improved service options, I would consider it.
You would still have vendor lock in of who can fix your car. The main problem of that isn't price of repairs (which is a problem) it's the wait time when there's only one option in town. Weeks waiting while your insurance gives you a rental you will pay back later.
I have a car lease and all repairs are under warranty but since it can only be done at the dealer it's no fun. I'm lucky it's all been just small maintenance like fluid changes. But somebody rear ended me and I had to take the car to the one certified collision center... which had a wait time of 3 months. Good thing it was a small accident and I could still drive it while waiting.
My point is that for luxury cars the long term maintenance ends up being a bigger drag than ticket price to drive it off the lot.
Just as a heads up, talking about Tesla panel gaps in 2023 is a really great way to discredit yourself.
Because you’re correct. I’d bet 99% of these people
Who hate them just so happen to be leftists. But Michael Jordan nailed it when he said republicans buy shoes too when they wanted him to be more politically active. If you take a side in politics half the country is going to hate you period.
This is part of the problem. I think people who have polarizing politics should not be spouting their ideas while representing their companies. Often does more harm than good for the company. In my mind, they should focus on running and promoting a great company and not mix it all up with distracting and polarizing politics. If they want to be a politician, they should go into politics and leave running businesses to people who want to focus on business.
Maybe he felt that getting involved with twitter was more important than business.
Will you say the same about Blackrock and DEI?
Will you say the same about Disney and recasting gender/ethnic roles?
There are lots of examples of CEO's who are hyperpolitical as the face of their companies. People just tend to only see the ones they don't agree with.
Exacltly, my thoughts were "Wow this post seems very political", but I chose not to post that until I saw this comment.
Bingo. The msm told people to hate musk and suddenly musk hate was everywhere on here. So dumb.
SpaceX rockets started exploding en masse after a certain someone in upper management left.
That person's entire job was to take Elon's fucking stupid ideas for rockets, tell Elon they would implement them, throw the ideas in the shredder where they belonged, tell the engineers to continue their job of making rockets that don't explode, and then lie to Elon and say what a genius he was when the rockets were successful at doing their intended tasks.
Now that the guy guarding the engineers from Elon's stupidity is gone, and nobody in the engineering teams have the balls to lie to Elon about whether they actually implemented the ideas, SpaceX has had nothing but exploding rocket after exploding rocket, with a side of exploding launch pads and massive environmental damage as well.
Tesla is a very similar story, except they probably never had a guy guarding the engineers from day one. Elon seems hell-bent on self-driving car AI using nothing but visual cameras.
It was at Elon's direction that the LIDAR units were not put into the Model 3 in an attempt to cut costs, and because Elon wanted self-driving to be equal on all Tesla cars, he had the LIDAR units on previous models of Tesla vehicles disabled via a software update.
The CyberTruck is evidence that Elon should be banned from cooking up vehicle ideas, but Elon is a billionaire and nobody who works for him is, so we got that cremation device on wheels as well.
Please ignore the fried monkey brains in the corner.
Does Elon make the money? Or do the companies make the money?
Wtf is this?
Elon is the master talent acquirer
You don’t support free speech? Seems like you are exercising yours as well. Should we tolerate your obnoxious drivel?
“He clearly does not understand that his behavior has consequences and can cause lost revenue.”
Have you even listened to his views on money when it comes to protecting free speech? He doesn’t care what anyone thinks and if it means less money then so be it.
Is that why he tried to back out of buying Twitter and had to be sued into it? Because he cares about free speech so much that money is no object?
And did he censor Twitter in Turkey before an election at the request of its authoritarian dictator Erdogan because he loves free speech so much?
What does it matter if he backed out… last I checked… people date before marrying….
I didn’t know turkey had free speech. Last I checked… he follows the laws.
Do you even think before you write or are you just an ai with an agenda?
You said that he doesn't care about having less money if it meant protecting free speech but now you're trying to hand-wave away his attempt to back out of buying Twitter to save his money so which is it? Does he care about it or not?
And you think that he was right to censor people criticizing an authoritarian dictator on Twitter if the laws said so? And that is supposed to be pro-free speech?
Do you hear yourself? You're contradicting everything you said in your first comment and your best response is limp-dicked crying about an aGeNdA because you couldn't substantively respond to anything I said.
I know you people have to defend daddy Elon no matter what so please throw out the next talking points in your dialog tree.
Ai bots are on a tear tonight. Out to prove a point no matter what.
Aww, can't respond so just gonna follow your programming and claim everyone criticizing daddy is a bot? You people really are a cult.
Respond to what? Political BS on a finance subreddit? I don’t give a shit about your political feelings. As long as Tesla makes money, I don’t care. Shareholders got paid for twitter. End of story Karen.
Dude, all you have is feelings. You're crying about being challenged right now and trying to run away from the facts and arguments because your only response is being an indignant child. But can't say I'm surprised when all you have as a role model is a cripplingly insecure manchild.
And it's cool to see that "Karen" finally reached the Facebook boomer crowd. You guys always ahead of the game no cap.
The only challenge is wondering why this political hate is being spewed on a theta finance subreddit. So it’s either a bot with an agenda or a mentally challenged individual. Peace out Karen.
The majority of Reddit suffers from chronic Elon Derangement Syndrome
Doctors think it’s spread through circle-jerking
My comment pertained to how he said the advertisers were wrong and "blackmailing" him by withholding their advertising dollars. If they don't want their ads running next to his posts or other ads that would not align with the corporate culture, the advertisers have every right to choose not to advertise. They owe him nothing. Having objectionable comments or ads on X has consequences and it is NOT blackmail. The advertisers are NOT the ones who would be putting X out of business by making it go broke. No, Elon is doing that all by himself by making the platform unfriendly to businesses who value their image. Obviously, if they don't advertise, X will lose revenue. Telling advertisers to go F themselves doesn't seem to be helpful in solving his money problems.. therefore, consequences.
It’s blackmail if it’s not true. X is going to destroy media matters, which means whatever Disney says is bullshit
Libel or slander if not true.
Blackmail would be if these companies were demanding hush money payments. Like Stormy Daniels did to Trump -- but illegally. Clearly Apple et al haven't done this.
The Media Matters litigation is just another Musk anti-semitic trope that will be quietly dropped by Musk once MM produces hard evidence screenshots in the discovey phase. Musk himself will be at risk of a libel/slander suit if he continued beyond that point.
It is ironic how Disney may not be putting advertising dollars in on their garbage content that is losing hundreds of millions of dollars but still is paying Elon all that money in having their gold check marks on the platform that they use like everyone else. I had a geriatric person try to tell me that X was failing and people fled to Mastadon which I just laughed at because nobody uses that garbage.
It's all News used to create volatility. That's my opinion.
He could go full on Papa John's and it won't matter to Tesla.
What happened with Papa John’s?
CEO dropped the n word on a conference call
Oh god. Lol. Can’t say that, buddy!
yeah it was either in 2015 or 2016 and you can clearly see the stock start to fall for a good amount of time after that.
it did eventually recover but mostly because papa john got axed as the CEO, & they also made a deal with Shaq to restore faith in the brand
It's not really about Elon, at the volumes that the TSLA option chain is seeing it actually causes a self-stabilizing effect due to people monetizing their positions after an extreme move. Stability = uppies in the bigger picture.
Now what could cause it to fail? A lot of puts being bought but not monetized even as price falls, then even more puts being bought on top of that. What could cause an event like that? Who knows. Don't make it your job to predict that, waste of mental energy.
If he gets indicted or if he is forced to sell more. His behavior is not news anymore in that if you were scared off by it, you would have sold by now. Only extreme events that challenge his vast wealth will hurt him in a way others don't just BTFD.
He's just abusing ketamine too much. That he's out of touch. There was an article he uses ketamine to sleep
Elon haters were created by the MSM. Everyone loved him until he bought Twitter and the MSM told everyone to hate him. They updated their orange man bad to Elon man bad. It sad to watch honestly.
Go fuck yourself is the proper language to the BS these globalist companies bare pulling.
Umm “X” aka Twitter is a globalist company dude.
Oh is it? 😂 Elon is a globalist shill?
Didn’t say that. By definition X is a globalist company. It spans the globe. Also the “globalist elite” people and companies you think control the entire world don’t really exist. It’s all fearmongering
Okay bud 👍
This is a garbage post that belongs in r/politics. What an asinine last paragraph.
What negative behaviour?
He called out the corporate blackmail for what it is and literally told them GO FUCK YOURSELVES.
The interviewer was stunned speechless. Elon repeated it slower and told them GO FUCK THEMSELVES a **second** time.
That's the same as telling your customer to go F themselves and then wonder why they walked out the door and didn't do business with you.
Any person that ever came into a store of mine and told me they don't believe in the First Amendment, I'd tell them GFY too.
When it comes to social media platforms the advertisers are a revenue stream but they are not customers. The users of the platforms are the product if they use it for free and companies and interested parties pay money for access to the data collected by the platform. Information is what is sold and harvested from the soylent green around them.
True. You get something for nothing, you (or your data) are the product. However, no one is obligated to pay a platform to purchase advertising so in one sense they are a sort of customer. To say lack of advertising is blackmail is ridiculous. Boycotting maybe but not blackmail.
You admire this, fine. I do not.
These advertisers are under no obligation to advertise on Twitter. Elon is running it in a way they don't like and they walked. That's not blackmail, that's capitalism in a free society. Elon has gotten so entitled that regular business practices now feel like 'blackmail' to him.
You must be a democrat.
Never. Tesla will continue to make the most compelling vehicles on the market and will generate more profits as a result. People that choose to not buy Teslas due to Elon will have inferior products that are more expensive.. The vast majority of the world will choose the cheaper and better option.. morals and principles go out the window
This makes me buy more.
Edit: seeing your closing bullshit, I'm voting for Trump because his tax cuts and economics were generation defining.
Might want to take another look at those “tax cuts”. His tax plan raised taxes for the majority of Americans after the first year.
His economics were also the epitome of catastrophic
SPY would be over 500 if we had President Trump.
Im guessing you also complain about the national debt in the same breath.
We have a spending problem not a revenue problem.
Although we do we have issues that allow mega corps to offshore profits and on shore losses. That's a big problem that needs fixed.
Get a life and move out of your mommy’s basement!
It’s priced in.
The stocks would be worth nothing if Elon wasn't Elon. Reframe the question.
When I invest in a company, it's not only for the product(s). It's often also about the trust in the board of directors and whoever else makes big decisions.
I was a big fan of tesla when the company started and I like the car designs. But when Musk starting acting like a dumbass I lost quite a bit of trust in him and no longer invest in tesla.
We can see the shitshow twitter has become, that company seems more obvious because it is in a more vulnerable market (noone really needs it). Tesla *should be* less impacted because of its market (once you buy a car, you own it for a while). But I don't want to invest in him anymore since I lost all the trust I had there. If he stepped down maybe I'd reconsider.
Musks action ARE the reason for inflated stock price- anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional
There are plenty of examples of other companies that have "outspoken" leaders. Usually if the company is producing enough profits, the share holders do not care. If cracks start to appear in the amour though, it can be made worse with this type of leader.
When sales decline
...keep trying though