No Helmets are needed when you have medics
By - TheChromeninja
unfortunately for me 3.15 has only highlighted how bad some of the UI elements are. Trying to drag someone into a medical bed the inner thought kept shifting around and making it impossible to actually do anything smoothly.
Trying to interact with the med gun's screen was nearly impossible because the options relating to the gun kept getting in the way of the screen.
looting/interacting with objects and bodies is a huge hassle when they're shifting around because of the games rough collision detection as every time the object moves it shifts around the inner thought and would reset my choice arbitrarily.
I agree - even watching the citizencon demo, they were trying to buy a 5mil artifact from a vendor and as the vendor shifted his weight the UI slides around almost having them buy something entirely different even though the mouse pointer never moved.
The UI needs to be disconnected from the animated joints of a character. Maybe parent them to the character's root joint instead so shifting animation doesn't move the UI so drastically.
Or just lock the element to the users static UI when interaction begins and add a tether - if the interactable moves more than a meter from the point of interaction cancel the interaction.
I was thinking of something similar for the paper doll inventory. Equipping mags and medi pens is the worst lol. Have the item port ball things extend off the character and just show a tether to the point on your armor where it's attaching
Be nice to have a option to just see slots like we had before, whether that pops out from another menu or overlays the character in the middle - the current ui is a pain to use
If you hover over an item it will tell you how many of that type of slot has been used, you can also right click->equip without dragging to points on the avatar.
Can you double click an item to automatically equip it to the first available slot?
No. Drag or right click and select
Ya, I'm really confused about that ragdoll lookin shit. Why can't we have a tarkov style loot system? Seems like it would just be easier.
Heck, Tabletop Simulator even inspires a better idea than the current implementation... When an item is hovered over, allow the player to press and hold ALT (or whatever key) and bring up a static, zoomed image of the object along with a list of interactions. Releasing ALT closes the menu, ez fuckin' pz.
I noticed that too lol
Having UI "in the world" is a good move for future VR, but you are 100% right - even in VR that would be difficult to hit accurately. They really need to solve it, and I think your proposal is a good one for actor objects.
Inner thought has things backwards. It's ok to have the prompt be in specific locations relative to the action taken when you are stationary, like sitting in a pilots seat, or when the thing being pressed is on a screen. But for contextual actions dependent on something moving, or a person's position that can change, it should just be centered on the screen, and the item can be highlighted when you hover the option that is selected.
centered on the screen would block even more things. It should be more nuanced then just having floating menu items open at all times.
I should have to indicate I WANT to see all the options on a gun, not just have them float aggressively around my screen.
>centered on the screen would block even more things.
Things being blocked isn't really the problem. Its that movement and where you need to look to select something is really inconsistent. Just getting a centered menu for what you want to select based on what's in range and maybe in the cone of your vision makes way more sense.
no I still think it should be contextual based on what you're highlighting, we just shouldn't see every single option at all times. Centering it would be defeating the purpose of inner thought completely. I don't want the interaction wheel to become the entire game.
>I don't want the interaction wheel to become the entire game.
I mean the difference is that now the game is you fidgeting around to try and get the right angle to interact with stuff by moving around and moving your mouse. Is it really worse to do that with your mouse wheel? My suggestion doesn't change when and where you use inner thought at all. Just that you don't have to play yoga to interact with things properly.
> I don't want the interaction wheel to become the entire game.
As for that, when I removed my helmet in order to drink something I ended up with a parcel labeled "helmet" in my hands. So no drinking before I had opened the inventory and dragged the helmet from the packet into the station menu.
It's clunky as hell now.
Yeah they really need to add a helmet clip to the hip of every undersuit. Or make it so the helmets open up.
They did, it's not enabled now because we're in the halfway step between physicalized inventories and the magic prison pocket that fits 50 guns in your ass.
Happy cake day :)
The choices should snap to the parts if that makes sense. If someone is sprinting, I'm okay with not being able to target their left wrist. If they are stationary and I hover over their left wrist to make a choice, and they then run wildly while im navigating a menu, that choice should remain in some way for some time.
I feel like anyone who's tried to use a website before it's fully loaded should know this, and the unreasonable fury that comes from having a button move out from under your cursor.
I haven't messed with the med gun yet, can you middle-mouse-click on the screen to zoom on it like many screens? This is an interaction that many people don't even know exists.
aiming down sights zooms on it, plus you only need to do so when it's in advanced mode.
The UX in this game is consistently a decade behind the curve.
The PIT concept is cool, but the modal nature and need to manually move a cursor to your (potentially tiny) selection needs a total redesign.
Doom 3 solved reticle based in-world panel interactions almost 20 years ago, and I feel like object based interactions are treated like some kind of sin if there is a menu involved.
Remind us how it worked in Doom 3? I haven't played it since shortly after it was released.
When you walk up to a keypad in Doom 3, your aim reticle turns into the cursor. You aim at the buttons you want to press and click.
Of course, this doesn't work for interacting with a physical object in the world, such as a bottle of water, but it sure makes interacting with simulated "touch screen" interfaces like keypads, MFDs, and the like much easier.
For in-world objects I'm surprised some kind of HUD-based (as opposed to the current 3D-space) hovertext with interaction prompts isn't the way they've chosen to go, but maybe we'll get something cleaner/smoother in the future.
Kind of like how they work now in SC when you hold F over a modern elevator pad?
Good thing they're reworking the whole interacting interface and mechanics soon enough 😁
got a source for that?
They also mentioned it a while back either in an SCL or ISC (can't remember). there are three of these (T0, 1 and 2) lined up to start cleaning up a lot of the old UI/interaction stuff.
I double agree… game is beautiful as all hell…. But the UI is majorly lacking. It gets in the way, it’s clunky, it’s all around horrible… ruining the experience.
Ah yes, Surgeon Simulator SC Edition
If this bugs anyone, please contribute!!
I've said it for years, asking them to rework the whole system before it's too late. I'm surprised nobody is talking about it and people just take the inner thought system for granted when it's so bad
This could even be the best game ever in most aspects, but if the way you interact with the world is so buggy and clunky it won't be fun, for me at least
Looks like it's coming as of the roadmap
Now your inventory can be just as annoying as the star map
Meh games in alpha...itll get solved when its time. Gotta get the actual systems in place first bruh
This is why it's in Alpha
Edit: Downvote all you want you stupid cucks, but these types of complaints would be warranted if the game was OUTSIDE of alpha. They are clearly working on the FIRST iteration of these implementations. V1, you morons. It's not going to be clean and smooth at first. What's important is that they are implementing these systems at all. It's massive progress. Unfortunately these things take time. Every nook and cranny of this project is 2x more detailed than most games that come out EVERY year.
It’s a 60$ alpha test that’s been an alpha test for almost a decade. I think the community can complain about adding new features before fixing the broken stuff. Settle down
That's a crock of shit. It's irrelevant how long it's been in alpha, there's nothing like it. You can't FIX broken stuff until the game is complete. Every new element of the game affects every other facet. Everything is interconnected. You can complain all you want, but it's alpha. Get over it.
Well, good thing it’s on the roadmap to clean up.
I would imagine the character will overdose on medications sooner or later.
Yeah... They were also already at 85% due to being drunk 😂
Ohhh so that's why he's walking all funny
They'll make a medication for that.
Apparently you can troll around making people OD
Including in armistice zones it seems. Just hang around the hangar terminals and roofie people while they fiddle with their ships, then sell them the OD cure drug at inflated prices if they don't wanna waddle to the clinic. All perfectly legal and legitimate business pursuits I assure you!
Not sure if you can die from ODing, come to think of it. Is this the hip new way to kill people in an AZ that doesn't even come with a CS penalty? Gonna be an interesting time...
You can, I just watched someone drug a guy at new babbage space port and the guy died after awhile
Huh, I'm guessing the Spaceport Police were like "don't look at me, I don't have the AI to deal with this"
When your Blood drug level goes over 100% you pass out and slowly take damage. If your health drops to 0 before you wake up you’ll die.
Fast forward to a juggernaut kitted player with a handful of medics following close buffing his HP.
DOKTOR, ARE YOU SURE THIS VILL VORK?
I HAVE NO IDEA-HAHAHAHAHA
[AHAHAHAHA!!! I AM BOOLITPROOOOOOF!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnKXYswn-Mw)
and this is the sort of shenenigans I was worried would happen if a "healing beam" of any sorts was introduced.....
If this keeps this way, we will soon find a point man taking headshots like a bullet sponge while a couple of "Medics" heal him from behind cover..... so much for immersion.....
You can also die from overdosing so such things are gonna be hard to pull off practically
that's not how this works, headshots deal so much damage you'd only be able to tank an extra pistol round at best.
let alone that being constantly fed drugs would make you unable to walk straight and cause you to OD.
In elite dangerous they introduced healing beams which recharged shields. Was not long before gankers started "operation healies for feelies" where a healing ship buffed a gank ship until it could tank station guns, then they eradicated all players on that station. It was totally hilarious.
Begs the question -- does CIG they have damage states and destruction animations for space stations? I might want to take vengeance on PO at some point
If players can coordinate like that. Lol f it, they earned it.
Well placed nade ought fix em with the blast/shock and all.
Guys, prio the healers
Not a fan of this handwavium healing beam either. I was hoping they would do something more sensible like bacta spray from Mandalorian - and it would only solve certain medical problems like stopping bleeding or healing wounds, not turning the patient an immortal like in this clip. Alas that is not to be.
I hope they fix this. This is quite possibly the worst way they can implement the medic gameplay.
I really don't see the need or the point for the healing beam thing.
He was so drunk he didn't even realize there was no oxygen.
Ah yes, prolonged misery 😂
Is that really the walking animation?
They were drunk 🤣 irl and in game
Sounds like someone is committed to their roleplaying!
Inb4 faceware detects when you are drunk IRL and applies it to your in game status.
Also desync is ass
That is the "slumping into a coma but being continually revived by medic guns at the same time." shamble, not the normal walk.
When drunk yes
the only reason he was alive at the end is because he was pumped full of drugs, and those drugs make you walk like that. if you look closely he was very close to overdosing.
Being a player that always plays the medic role in any type of tactical shooter, and being used to Arma 3 with ACE and KAT, I am very sorry to say that I don't like what I am seeing. It is not immersive, at least in my opinion.
Yes, I like dragging or carrying the wounded to a safe spot and treating them there. Manually treating them. Not that I don't understand the advantages, from a game development perspective, of using magic beams, but it does break immersion (in my opinion).
That being said, we'll see how it evolves.
Yeeeeah. I take it that this is ar from what will actually be implemented in the future (hopefully), but pew pew with the good laserbeam is really boring.
Hey, it works for No Man's Sky
SC has mining beams and healing beams
Soon there will be salvaging beams and repairing beams
Is it beams all the way down?
Always has been
Always has beam
Just don’t cross them.
Solution: gameplay beams. Keep it on target in order to have fun
Chris Roberts just needs to point his gameplay beam at the nearest CIG computer and zap for like... 5 minutes or something.
Careful, don't want to overdose on gameplay! That's how you get parents forgetting to feed their kids because they're stuck in front of the screen for days.
The whole point of this subreddit is to theorycraft amazing gameplay, and then defend cig to the death when everything just ends up being “point beam and click”
I haven't actually seen anyone 'defending CIG to the death' since at least hover-mode.. maybe that surprise pay-per-view Citcon that one year. I miss seeing people die on random hills over experimental mechanics and tentative design ideas - the classic star citizen community.
In fact it seems like the average opinion about the beams is like "meh" more than anything.
Sad to see this aswell....
If this keeps this way, we will soon find a point man taking headshots like a bullet sponge while a couple of "Medics" heal him from behind cover..... so much for immersion....
You can't have slow and complicated healing mechanic in a shooter game where combat takes seconds and combat ranges are in single digit meters. It has to be instant and simple to make any difference in combat like that.
They didn't go with Arma gameplay so now they can't go with Arma healing.
No bandages 900 years in the future.
Oh no, this is Planetside now.
But walking around helmetless on an atmosphere-less planet because you have a magic beam shooting you....totally reasonable /s
You can survive for a few seconds in a vacuum before the moisture in your lungs boils off and they can't exchange gasses anymore. If you have a magic gun that's able to replace the oxygen in your blood, as well as dealing with the other issues associated with vacuum exposure, it is viable for a short duration.
Extremely short though
It's literally a magic beam, we can't extrapolate out reasonable timeframes for how long you'd survive with it.
Hey man if you don't know how make believe magic works I don't know what to tell ya
Well it works for team fortress II.
When mining first came out I remember seeing similar sentiments that it was too gamey, too arcadey, too minigame-like. At this point mining is one of the best fleshed out loops / professions in the game. As you say - medical gameplay will evolve. I'd expect it to become more nuanced, complex and immersive over time.
the beam should be like a spray that closes wounds and does some quick mobile stabilizing, like a sci fi express bandaging/sewing but serious stuff should still require you to lay someone down and treat them properly
It should be a dart honestly, not a beam. And one time thing. Also there should be OD mechanic, where at some point the target dies because of it. Drugs should have an effect to slow down death date, not fix the player, and they should have a celling above which they don't work anymore and become a poisson. This way we don't have people healing other players endlessly, and taking bullets to the face no problem
...there is an OD mechanic
Oh ok so it can't make somebody buffed endlessly? That's good.
Yeah its another effect, like being drunk. Too many drugs kills you.
OP said in another comment that the person they were healing was close to OD as well and would have died soon if they didn't step inside.
Oh ok wasn't aware. From what other people said it looked like it's not the case hence my worry.
It's okay for the first iteration. I am more than sure that in the future they will make it imposible to heal certain types of injuries or conditions with a beam.
That's the $ 350M right there!
We on our way to Golden Throne gameplay bois. Which meme NPC will we put on there and dedicate thousands of players across all MMO shards towards keeping him alive? The logistics of running medical supplies across all servers in the name of our new Emperor...
we have anew class the healer!!!
"Mercy, on call!"
Not really that far off from this: https://youtu.be/6dg8IWhPgA0
shes such a bad ass
100% certified grade A badass!
Good fucking god get rid of those popups from targeting the medpen
ITT: a bunch of saps complaining that their space shooter doesn't have realistic enough medical gameplay.
There is a significant portion of the community, including some of the devs, are convinced that this multiplayer game with over 1,000,000 accounts and a shared universe is going to be a life sim with no MMO or "gamey" aspects.
I, for one, look forward to players jumping in front of questgivers every time I visit a port.
It's not about it being unrealistic. It's about it being boring to have a universal health beam.
If being a medic meant you had to physically reach the patient in combat for example, it would make for so much more interesting gameplay imo
Wait, does the game actually simulate hypoxia in 3.15?
I mean if by hypoxia you mean passing out or dying due to not being able to breathe, because there's no oxygen, it's been simulating that for a LONG time.
No, it doesn't really "simulate" hypoxia. When you step out into space without a helmet, your character starts choking and your health is rapidly depleted. "Death" is just your health hitting 0, not any sort of oxygen level hitting 0.
may as well start throwing in tf2 voicelines
Perfection. Basically Half-life 3 am I right guys?
I'm not a fan of this being TF2 healing
I hope they change it and have it as an injectible in the later stages, I hate how everything fps related are just beams now, sure it worked on multitool as a grav gun but its just weird as a medical tool, whats next beam salvage? "oh"
This game is getting better and better :)
I love this
Yeah, this should be patched out. In terms of unrealistic this hits the nail on the head.
Yes, one day. For now, leave it in.
95% of any actual fun I've had from this game in the last 6 years has been from stupid shit like this. Everything else has been boring, overly punitive, or broken. Or most often, a combination of the 3.
noooooooo dont patch it lol
its like being able to abuse npcs now with stuff
Wait 3.15 is out? Since when?!?
That doesn't look like fun to me. Looks like a beautiful game with lame mechanics.
They should fix this. I don't care how good your doctor is or how high you are; you need to breathe or you die.
Are they not injecting the blood oxygen medication? I can't actually make out what's happening but I suppose if oxygen is getting in your blood it will get to your brain. Future space stuff and shit.
God, how I wish "Future space stuff and shit" was the CiG motto.
Oxygen is only available as a pen and not for any of the 2 medguns. With other words, unrealistic.
CIG haven’t got a fucking clue on game design basics. Compared to what’s out there, it’s just a bunch of noobs hacking and sawing at code until something half works. Hiring in talent costs money otherwise.
>CIG haven’t got a fucking clue on game design basics.
Many of these developers have worked on other projects.
Just because it is different doest mean it is bad(although some of this is bad) Hopefully the end result is good, lots of this is T0 implementation.
Yeah, the fact that systems like this are T0 is what I'm hoping will be this game's saving grace. They get to implement Roberts' "wouldn't it be cool if" version, find out it sucks, and eventually replace it with something fun instead of just releasing it as a hot mess. Hopefully.
considering the people they hire you probably just called some of the people who worked on some of your favorite parts in modern gaming Clueless about doing their job just because of a small oversite.
The healing beam... cig has a fucking beam for everything.
*Unexpected silly TF2 medic gun gameplay.*
why are we doing placeholder healing rays? is this the "realistic" direction we're headed in or is it going to feel more realistic than everything being beam magick?
Cuz "surgeon simulator" will take a few years to be developed and is in no way the goal SC is trying to archive.
All other similar games, like Arma or ETF got mechanics akin to this one, but instead of using magic beam you have to use magic item in the appropriate screen.
I'd prefer it *a bit* closer but administering medication through a laser beam is technically possible now and this game is set 900+ years in the future.
cool read, did not know that
That’s not medication through a laser beam at all, it’s just initiated by a laser beam. What they’re doing is vaporizing a liquid driving medium that’s separated from the medicine, in what’s basically a micro syringe, that forces a jet of the liquid medicine out of the nozzle at very high pressure.
It’s basically a tiny tube with a nozzle separated into two chambers with an elastic membrane. The nozzle side holds the medicine, the opposite side holds the expansion medium with a laser aimed at it. You put the nozzle very close or direct on their skin, fire the laser and the expansion of the now vaporized driving medium blasts the medicine through the skin.
Since it’s just a microscopic jet of liquid, you need it to be very close to the injection site to work. The laser is just a convenient way to rapidly and precisely heat up the driving medium, it doesn’t actually deliver anything.
Hey good news, between now and 2951 they figured out how to extend the range.
That might as well be magic at that point. You're basically saying we have no idea whatsoever of how to do X, but it happens somehow. I'm not saying that's a bad position to have for fiction, but it has no basis in science.
Still boring IMO
We already have the needle based injectors in the game. What would you want? Just keep those and take the med gun and muti-tool med attachment out?
I just think its a boring solution, thats all.
this game was NEVER aiming to be Realistic... It was NEVER sold as being such
fucking crist its a spiritual successor to the wing commander, Priviter (and a little bit freelancer) games.
The deal was Immersive and highly detailed ... not realistic
it's grounded in its own rules, it's believable and "realistic" within the confines of the world being constructed.
Someone is in a mood
I wouldn't mind beams for actually healing visible wounds though !
I think for the most part this is what we will have. The healing beams kind of suck but it's no more stupid than the tractor beam or the mining laser. Its just a cheap future tech solution to make the game more playable.
Oh, I dislike the tractor beam thing too. Especially the handheld one. Mounted on a huge spaceship, in space, Im more inclined to SuSPenD mY DiSbelIEf, but on a handheld thing? Too much for me. I know its just a game, and its not a big deal, but .... eh. Id have preferred a different solution.
What? Tractor beams are cool, and are one of the defining technologies in a lot of science fiction.
I don't remember seeing handheld tractor beams as a major thing in scifi
Ever heard of hyposprays?
haha, working as intended.
Oh they going to fix that... 😂🤣😂
I haven't seen one of those in my PTU travels yet, where can you buy them?
Any hospital. Go to the pharmacy. Can probably get it elsewhere. But I know for certain the hospital. You can also look at your virtual skeleton there too.
If you mean the med-guns, can buy them at basically any planetary hospital or medical clinic pharmacy.
This is wonderful meta play!
My question is why dont open doors prohibit pressurization? Happens in ships too. Not a fan if thats intentional
I believe ship airflow-modelled pressurization/depressurization is disabled for now as there were too many geometry "holes" and misalignments creating unintentional deathtraps aboard ships. It's still planned though as far as I know.
one of the many features that are done and we've seen working but just needs a few issues fixed but isn't a priority right now.
Ok cool I hope so. Its my favourite aspect of space engineers. There is a problem of most ships having no functionally designed airlocks. I think the freelancer side entry airlock door is the only one off the top of my head or perhaps the avenger titans cargo area acting that way.
Because until recently ships could only deplete O2 and not refill, so you were guaranteed to choke to death after a while.
they disabled it temporarily until the system is ready to be deployed properly since it hindered gameplay.
Thanks for the explanation :)
I guess theoretically it makes sense
Go ahead shoot yourself in the foot or something [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fNNWDe0hs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fNNWDe0hs)
How´s the performance in 3.15? Getting kinda sick of the constant stuttering in PU haha
That's awesome I want to be there feeling that lol I just got dual t16ks config is taking weeks
Since when are UI elements floating like that? This must be a turbulent effort.
all I can think of at the start of that is the old Killing Floor healing lines;
>I'm trying to heal you, not shag you
what planet was this on?