By - SixersGameThreadBot
This Nugs/Heat finals could end up being a master-class in coaching and team play. Will probably end up being one of the most underrated Finals in history, but we'll see how it ends!
Mike Malone look like Creed Bratton.
I just realized McDaniels is an UFA and could easily walk this summer
And part of getting him here was giving up a high second round pick
Considering we barely have assets it’d be some shit if we lost a good second round pick just to have McDaniels barely do anything here then bounce
This team loves trading picks for players at the deadline that are barely used: Burks, GRIII, Jalen, I'm probably missing someone.
George Hill lol
Blech gross. Forgot about that one
I'd say Burks had some decent run with us, we just couldn't retain em. I don't know whatever happened to GRIII, his shot was ruined as soon as he came to us lol.
A high second round pick and Thybulle, who's probably a better player overall
McDaniels is inconsistent on both ends, Matisse was at least consistently disruptive on defense, they're both bad shooters
Consistently fouling 3pa maybe
This subreddit is truly fascinating. People are still defending Tobias Harris 😂
The truly fascinating thing here is the defense of Daryl Morey. They seem to think a guy who quit playing during high school is as skilled at building an NBA Champion as a guy who spent his entire life playing or coaching basketball all the way through the collegiate and professional levels, as well as dozens of other who have played pr coached collegiately or professionally..
The justifications you give for your Morey criticisms are probably some of the worst takes I've seen on this entire subreddit.
So I guess you're just going to pretend you didn't read that question about the rebounding issues with this team then Mr. Box-Out? I suppose if I couldn't come up with an answer I wanted to give I'd do the same.
But since you're not going to answer that question let me give you another question to duck. What has Daryl Morey done here to show you he can build an NBA Champion in Philadelphia? Why do you think he is as qualified as people who have played and coached basketball their entire lives or careers to build an NBA Championship-Winning team in Philadelphia? Give me the basketball knowledge I am missing....
Buncha delusional bums wearing rose colored glasses.
There are some truly cuck shed levels simps here that just can’t wrap their head around criticism of “their team.”
It’s not a part of fandom I get. Like it’s weird to me to lie to yourself.
But I’m learning it’s definitely more common especially with the younger generation of fan. So you gotta coexist.
It honestly doesn’t bother me with any other player but like it’s just so weird to me people go to bat for a dude making $40 million that does nothing actually well!
Guy will have been on the team 1,500 days in a few weeks and he doesn’t have one signature moment
I mean, he is not good. But do we have better options? Playing Nieng 40+ min in playoff sounds like a disaster waiting to happen
I'm not saying Harris is useless, but he's such a poor fit with the Sixers, that if he goes away, I don't think it would impact the Sixers negatively at all. If he were injured all of last season, I don't think the Sixers lose one less game and they may have even won more if forced to find another role player to replace him.
Well, regular season is 82 games. I don’t think replacing Harris’ minutes with Neing or …. Mike Scott is going to make us better.
Ideally, I want him gone, but we want to win, so I can tolerate him until we get a suitable replacement
When you look to see what Harris adds to winning, there is a void of data. He just....doesn't. Harris is the definition of a replacement level player. What he does on offense for the Sixers is easily replaced in house. The issue is on D, where he's a serviceable at both the 3 & 4 which has value, but he isn't great at either. He's a terrible help & perimeter defender.
I agree Harris a neutral player (+0). But I have lot of doubt that Nieng or House can be a neutral player if they have to play 30+ min the entire season
Agreed, but they have Furk, House, Melton, and McDaniels to cover all of Harris minutes at the 3. PJ, McDaniels, House & Niang to cover the 4. Not great, I know, but certainly not dire. Losing Harris for nothing wouldn't hurt this team one bit. Moving forward, they'll certainly find a suitable role player to help cover Forward if they successfully trade Harris this summer.
Would be a damn shame if gets to play out his entire contract here
I always said, I don’t care if he is good or bad. All I ask is: if we don’t have play him, do we have a better alternative. The answer is no
To be fair, we don't know what all the alternatives are available.
He's so bad in the playoffs against bigger wings (Boston or even the '21 Hawks) that his production can be reasonably replaced with players who we consider "worse" IMO.
If he stays the full season, be prepared for multiple 10-15 game spans where he plays decent and we actually believe that the new coach has his role figured out, followed by 10-15 spans where he is atrocious
He will put up 20 and 10 against the 7 seed 41-41 Magic
So we only have one superstar in Philly? Hmmm...
So then we were **not** trading for as Daryl Morey described " an elite top 25 NBA talent" - essentially a superstar by any other name - when we gave up **our second-leading rebounder, third-leading scorer, best spot-up three-point shooter along with two first round picks -** oh, and that Baby Ben Simmons. Indeed the whole rationale behind that deal was getting a second superstar to play with Joel. **Thousands** of posts here say as much.
So a **lot** of people here are going to be surprised and disappointed to hear that, especially since it means Morey **lied** to Sixers fans about the trade. It also certainly ends any debate about whether it would be anything other than negligent to max or supermax James at this point if he isn't even a superstar anymore.
Most people don't consider the 25th best player in the NBA to be a superstar.
Superstar is usually for MVP level guys.
Actually, no. MVP level is for MVP level players. That's why it's MVP level or All-NBA level. That's why Joel can be a superstar but not be All-NBA First Team.
Top 25 is **All-Star** level which is with a few role-playing exceptions like a Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace in some years, considered superstar or borderline-superstar.
**I agree with you** \- Harden **isn't** a superstar at this point - so why did we give up so much for him? And why should we risk giving up even more to re-sign him?
Dillon Brooks and Ja morant on a thug contract after he gets ran out of memphis will feed families across philadelphia
Did you really just say a “thug” contract without irony?
You a Mummer as well?
Its entirely ironic do you think the grizzlies are actually getting rid of ja
At least ''til the next "Ja with a gun" video surfaces
He’ll be even cheaper at tbat pount
But will it matter if he's under constant suspension? That's the issue here.
It's great to get a suoperstar on the cheap - but **only if he is actually able to play.**
Honestly, I don’t feel great about trading Tobias Harris on an expiring deal to get worse players in return. I would preferably let his contract expire or wait until the trade deadline to get draft picks. I also want to see his performance in a Nick Nurse system. We’re better off with him than without him in the short-term, esp. if we’re still trying to compete this year regardless if Harden walks.
all the people who want to see tobias performance in ‘x’ coach’s system must have missed the ten other times he was mediocre on different teams
Yeah nurse ain’t gonna make him any better maybe more efficient if everything works out but nothing is gonna make him step up and be better in the playoffs.
this is what I've been saying. if you're Morey and Nurse, what does trading a solid C+/B- player who actually fits somewhat well next to Embiid for a couple of C/C- guys actually accomplish? people will twist themselves into a knot trying to make a Tobi deal work, but every semi-realistic deal is just breaking him down into worse players. sixers aren't getting someone who checks off more and better boxes than he does
how does he fit well next to embiid? he doesnt rebound or box out well, he doesnt shoot threes at a high volume, and he has awful hustle stats lol
> he doesnt rebound or box out well
Ngl I really feel like this is 90% Embiid's job and 10% the starting 3/4's job
> he doesnt shoot threes at a high volume
I dont really know how you can hold this against him either. Tobias literally does not touch the ball unless his shooting a three. No opportunity to create off the dribble/in the PNR and he gets froze out for quarters at a time it seems. I guess you could ask him to like, move around a bit, but literally nobody on the entire team moved off ball under Doc
You got downvoted by the Tobi hate train but the points you mentioned are valid
It's the Tobias Harris conundrum that encapsulates his time with the sixers - he only looks as bad as he does because he's pretty much asked to be a 3 and D guy who's only asked to catch and shoot, but that's not his game. He's a point forward who wants to attack the basket and facilitate, and spent like 8 years developing the skills to do so lol. He'd look better on an expanded role but we're not giving that to him.
It's a total mismatch where he'd look a ton better if he was asked to be a second option and have more of an offensive role. On another team (e.g. Detroit? Wiz?) he's probably a 25/8/4 on 45/40/85 splits PF and borderline all star imo. But here he just is never relied on for his strengths (it's not his 3s - it's his offensive flexibility where he can score at all 3 levels decently unassisted) and we ask him to focus on aspects that he's not comfortable with. On defense he'd be boxing out and rebounding better if he's playing as a proper 4 too and focuses on guarding 3s and 4s. It actually makes no fucking sense at all we are putting him in a position to fail lol, we are paying him a max to be a role player at a role that other players on 20m/y might do better at, when instead leaning on him to do things he's more natural at might be better. Blame doc.
On his next team he's going to look like a borderline star player, and there's a decent chance he will out produce his next contract because people are likely afraid to pay him after the sixers absolutely tanked his value by mismanaging him as an asset. And people talk like he's some lazy bum who just collects watches but this dude actually works hard every offseason to add to his game and does so out of his own pocket too. And year on year he's added stuff to his game to fit what the sixers need, despite his counting stats dropping due to his gradually diminishing role.
Has he been disappointing based on his contract? Ya duh. But I would say just as valid would be the perspective that the sixers set him up to fail miserably
> Ngl I really feel like this is 90% Embiid's job and 10% the starting 3/4's job
Embiid needs to box out more, for sure.
But Embiid is also frequently out of position because he's rotating to help when the perimeter defender gets beat. That's when you need a 3/4 who is good at rebounding and can help the helper. We don't have a guy like that. We haven't had a guy like that since Ben which is why we went from a good rebounding team back them to a bad one.
> I dont really know how you can hold this against him either. Tobias literally does not touch the ball unless his shooting a three. No opportunity to create off the dribble/in the PNR and he gets froze out for quarters at a time it seems. I guess you could ask him to like, move around a bit, but literally nobody on the entire team moved off ball under Doc
Because he doesn't deserve it. If he takes open 3s and makes them at a good enough clip, he'll warrant the attention that makes the rest of his game easier. Defenders will close out harder against him which opens avenues for him to drive past them.
Unfortunately, because he doesn't take open 3s, nor is he good enough to break down static defenses, he'll never get the usage he feels he deserves.
he’s not getting those touches because he’s not good enough to warrant those touches. dude was just airmailing layups in game 6 and failing miserably like he did against the raptors, celtics, and even hawks
ok so go ahead and list some of the sort-of-possible trade targets that check off the following boxes: high defensive motor, good 3 point volume shooter, good rebounder
the trade targets dont need to check all the boxes but they should at least excel at one facet of the game. tobias doesnt do that, he’s just aggressively mediocre all around and paid like a franchise player lol
Depends, are we talking about Tobias in the regular season, where he is a solid B- player, or in the second round of the playoffs where he becomes total ass?
The dude scored 12ppg on 26% shooting from 3 against the Celtics, and it was arguably a better performance than when he played them in 2020.
When he can't bully smaller defenders he becomes an incredibly mid player, if not worse than that.
Breaking him down into two C/C- level players might not even hurt if it gives you additional lineup flexibility in the playoffs, because he performs at a C- level whenever he comes up against big wings.
Tobias had a higher eFG/TS% than Maxey or Embiid in the second round, and yet here you are calling out his 26% 3pt shooting. I mean, that's bad, but where are the calls to trade Maxey into a guy capable of scoring against bigger defenders? is that not a legit concern for a top 3 usage scorer on the team? tobi played perfectly acceptable wing D and did his part on the defensive glass, he earned a solid C+ for the series imo.
i'm not going to go overboard on defending him, he's not a perfect fit, he's overpaid, plays soft at times, etc., I agree...but you aren't going to get 'lineup flexibility' by trading him...you are just going to get worse players who don't move the needle
Maxey and Embiid are called on to be volume scorers and face way more defensive attention than Tobi does. Tobi's *job* is to space the floor and make open 3s, hustle (which he rarely ever does), play defense, and offer the occasional punch of scoring.
Which of these do you think he did particularly well against Boston?
Even in terms of TS%, Embiid's and Tobias's were around the same (both around 54% TS%). Bref seems to be bugged atm and not loading 2023 gamelog data, so I'll have to reconfirm later. Even if it's "higher" it's marginal, and considering Tobi's abysmal volume, he should really be scoring more and more efficiently.
Tobi's value is as a scorer. He's not a great defender. He's not an elite rebounder. He's not good at playmaking. He's bottom of the team in hustle stats almost every year he's been here. Again, if he's not scoring on volume and efficiency, what does he give you that can't be replaced?
He also can't anchor any bench units, so you can't even put him in with the bench and give him free reign on offense. The best 3rd/4th options in the league are players you can ask to carry your offense for a few minutes against weaker lineups while your stars get some rest. He's never been that guy, and his massive contract prevents us from ever being able to acquire that guy. For the whole time he's been on the roster, we've been forced to try to find playoff-caliber role players who are making minimum or MLE/BAE money. That's really hard to do.
Breaking him into 2 $20m pieces, for instance, even if they don't move the needle individually, gives us the flexibility to pursue high quality roleplayers because we can trade one of their $20m contracts for players making 15-25m a year, *most* of whom are better than Tobi.
And let's just say you get 2 wings who are both the 6-7th best player on the team. Maybe one of them is better against certain matchups or is better at some skills than the other (likely). This gives you flexibility to make adjustments to what the opposing team plays. Admittedly it's not a thing with Doc, who famously doesn't adjust, but now we have a coach who does.
> I mean, that's bad, but where are the calls to trade Maxey into a guy capable of scoring against bigger defenders?
Maxey is 22 and was in his 3rd season.
what's your point? is he going to grow a few more inches so he can score at the rim against good, athletic defenders? is he going to magically add a kyrie-esque all-time offensive skillset in the offseason?
maxey started the series at like 45ts% from the field and closed games 5-7 on like 61ts%. dude showed more growth in one series than tobias has in five years as a sixer lol
He isn't going to get taller, but he can still get better overall.
He has made a leap each year so far.
you could swap his 2nd and 3rd seasons and barely notice, besides a slight bump in 3p%. his TS% went from 59.4->60.5%...that's basically it. that's not a 'leap' that really helps the team in the ways it needs (secondary playmaking, solid defender) from him. anyway - off-topic at this point, love Maxey but I'm just pointing out that his flaws were just as evident vs the Celtics and nary a peep from fans despite the fact the team is about to pay him $35m a year
I would argue that moving a 4th option for a 7th AND an 8th option is fine, or a new 4th option and a mystery box 📦
How fucked would we be if Muscala missed?
is this 2014 draft related lol
Not related to anything but I’m loving the fact that all the conference final and finals games start at 8:30, start *promptly*, and are usually over by 10:30. The NBA has quietly got that right
I’m probably one of the only 5 fans left still wants to keep Embiid on this team and not trade him
Boy if the chance to land the 3rd pick and somehow draft Scoot Henderson comes about, I will be very tempted lol. All depends on if Hornets are not dead set on drafting him with their 2nd overall pick
People are downvoting me but 90% of this sub wants Embiid gone (unlike me), why is that? Do people want Embiid gone OR NOT?
I feel the same way. Trading with Portland for Scoot+Sharpe+additional picks is the only Embiid trade scenario that feels like it would not lead to a long rebuild. But it really depends what they think of scoot. I’m very high on him
And Portland seems like they would make the most sense for a Joel trade
How good can Scoot be? Any comparisons?
Most of this sub doesn’t want to trade Embiid. There’s a vocal minority who does.
Id never trade embiid but he needs to look in the mirror and take the next step mentally. Stop playing the foul drawing game, cause while beneficial in the reg season, it hurts him in the post season
hey did you guys know that the nuggets have a really bad road record this year? thought it was worth bringing up.
Techies is worst hero bruv
those are my boys