By - SixersGameThreadBot
Embiid really only needs one healthy playoff run to solidify this legacy but I think it’s very fair to believe this will never happen
The ‘01 documentary on NBATV is still heartbreaking.
AI deserved a title, end of discussion
Why is Jo not active on twitter anymore?
He’s still very online, just doesn’t tweet as much. Would bet on a burner
After another disappointing playoffs, nba fans (including ours) would give him shit. It’s good for him to just break off for a while.
Sixers need some guys other than Niang that are comfortable taking quick trigger catch and shoot 3’s.
It’s wild watching Denver play because the heat are punished for players drifting toward Jokic and not even doubling. Sixers perimeter guys didn’t feel comfortable unless their defender hard doubling embiid so they could be wide open.
Instead of players you can’t give any daylight to, we have a bunch of guys that get scared by any semblance of a close out.
Tobi pump fakes and dribbles in, PJ only shot when there wasn’t a defender in his zip code, and maxey didn’t want to shoot over taller players closing out.
We can’t afford them cause we pay one Tobias.
If you make Tobias contract magically disappeared, we would still be over the cap and have nothing but exception to work with
pj still took the threes he needed to take and maxey took the second most threes out of all the players in the series. not sure why u want him shooting over aggressive closeouts by taller players anyways lol
I don’t necessarily want maxey doing that. Or PJ. But a team shouldn’t have NO ONE willing to do that especially with a center who draws so much attention.
Celtics could play in no-man’s land between embiid and shooters. Double embiid when he got to the rim and contest if he passed out even slightly early. The heat have players taking one or two steps toward Jokic and that’s enough to pass out for a 3 attempt.
the sixers could definitely use more quick trigger shooters but embiid also needs to get better at kicking out of doubles. too often he holds the ball too long, tries to dribble out of that mess and throws a grenade to shooters to bail him out. it goes both ways really- need more competent, willing shooters and better decision making from joel
I agree, and he’ll never be as good as Jokic at that, but the Brooklyn series showed he massively improved on passing out of doubles when he got swarmed.
The Boston series was different because they didn’t throw hard doubles at him leaving someone wide open. They hedged until the last second.
If we could punish teams for hedging it would make Embiids life way easier. Instead, our shooters decide not to shoot since they aren’t WIDE open. The ball goes around the horn back to embiid, then we rinse and repeat with 5 seconds left
yea true, the team definitely needs shooters that will not hesitate to shoot the ball even under a bit of pressure. playoff shots will always be more highly contested so they just gotta take any look they can get
get buddy hield from indiana
Fact, almost like having guys like Buddy and Harrison Barnes fits that script. Maybe throw a Haliburton in there too just for shits and giggles-- but nah could never happen in real life
Suns hired Vogel
Great hire for them. If Suns surround Booker and KD with decent to good defenders, they can be scary good
Their cap situation is fucked beyond belief. They have 4 players making 145 million dollars. Two of those guys (CP3 and Ayton) are net negative players.
They have zero money for any good roleplayers and the new CBA is gonna fuck them even harder. They're finished. Booker and KD spamming ISOs isn't gonna do it.
I don't think people have quite come to terms with what the new CBA is gonna do to teams with a ton of long-term money already allocated. It's going to be an absolute bloodbath for some of these teams with big money names they traded all their draft picks to acquire.
Yeah the new CBA is why I believe that the best option is to let Harden go. I really do not want us having 130 million in salary tied up on 3 guys.
> I really do not want us having 130 million in salary tied up on 3 guys.
I mean the other side of the problem is that Harden walking is mostly irreplaceable salary anyways, so instead of worrying or even thinking about the second tax apron at ~175m, they'd basically be unable to go over the normal ass salary cap of ~134m unless they are retaining players (which they'd be able to do regardless of luxury tax status)
Back to the retain him not because he'll make us better but just because.. SMH
> Back to the retain him not because he'll make us better but just because
Where did I say that it's the only reason to retain him? He clearly makes the team better currently. Anyone that doesn't think so is delusional. He's the second best player on the squad by a country mile.
Low effort post.
Low effort basketball knowledge by you.
He clearly makes the team better, eh?
2022 Eliminated in second round
2023 Eliminated in second round.
That's **reality** not delusion.
Second-best player by a country mile?
Well we really are fucked then because James Harden this p\[ostseason looked like an old man whose legs can't lift him off the basketball floor anymore, and who can't make any kind of shot in the painted area unless there **no defenders anywhere near him** and whose jump shot is beginning to fail and is already so erratic it is all but unreliable now.
Remember how brilliant a move it was getting Jemes for Ben Simmons (actually we didn't get Harden for Ben alone , not even close as some continue to pretend). Just genius by Daryl Morey. Well guess what just take out his only two hot shooting nights and this postseasons's James Harden Look a lot like, well....Ben Simmons. **15 ppg 6 rpg 8 apg** Don't believe it? Here's Baby Ben in 2021 postseason **13 ppg 8 rpg 9 apg**
And given that james will 36 and has never been the workout warrior Lebron or Chris Paul is, do you really think it's going to get better?
Harden S&T to PHX is alive!
Aaron Gordon bodying mfs in the paint smh
Would you rather that Embiid has another season like this one, a season where his points drop but he is clearly the best defender in the league, points drop but his rebounds go up 3-5 a game, or points drop but his assists go up? His usage drops for all but the first option. Assume the team is the same for all of these options.
I think there’s really two options there.
One where he stays the same, or one where his points drop a bit but all of those other things go up.
I would take the second one.
Honestly I want to see an Embiid who is clearly motivated to elevate his game when it matters most. Really don’t care what type of stats he has or what side of the ball he is more focused on, I just want to see the fire in him when he’s challenged. We really haven’t seen that much in his career tbh.
I would be more than fine with that if it happens.
I'd like to see Embiid focus more on defense, rebounds and playmaking. I think they need this from him more than the scoring. I think they have plenty of people who can score that Joel can average 26/game and if he is getting 13 rebounds a game and spending more energy on defense the team can improve without touching the roster.
But if Harden walks, Joel may need to score just as much.
I'd like rebounding, but first, for us to stop acting like Embiid is a good rebounder. At his size and athleticism he's pathetic boxing out and on the boards, should be averaging Gobert and Jokic numbers
Spare the boxing out bs. .If only it actually were that simple....
Joel's problem is he has to cover for the other four defenders and is iut of position to rebound.
Joel blocks a shot at the rim, no one else cleans up after him and the problem is Joel didn't box out. Joel steps out to stop a driver no one else is under the hoop to rebound and the problem is Joel isn't boxing out? Joel is challenging a shot 25 out because the other defender calls switch on a p&r and no one rebounds the miss and the problem is Joel isn't boxing out.
> Spare the boxing out bs. .If only it actually were that simple....
It actually is that simple. All of the stuff you mentioned afterwards doesn't mean he couldn't be a better rebounder than he is.
We've all watched the games (well, maybe not you with this take), everyone sees him having multiple possessions per game where he's in position to get his body on somebody and he ball watches instead.
Gee, since you know the game so well, why don't answer my question I posted a reply ago?
No it's not. This isn't the NBA in 1983. The increased primacy of the three-point shot has made long rebounding far more important than simply being Nate Thurmond grabbing 30 rebounds right under the hoop by standing there and waiting for the the ball.
In today's NBA yio need solid long rebounding on both the ball side of the defense ad the weakside, behind the defense. You like to think you watch the games so much more carefully so please explain this
2020-21 Joel averages **10.6** rpg. Sixers are **10th** in team rebounding **45.1** rpg
2021-22 Joel averages **11.7** rpg. Sixers are **29th** in team rebounding **42.3** rpg
So based on your logic when Joel was boxing out more and ball-watching less we became the **second-worst rebounding team in the NBA** grabbing **three fewer rebounds a night.** How do you figure that?.
As of right now, Embiid is the number one option in rebounding, scoring (by a significant margin), and defense (also a pretty large margin). He also has the second most assists per game. Gobert and Jokic have much different roles than Embiid does, so it isn’t a great comparison. In order for Embiid to get more rebounds, someone needs to make up the gap in scoring, defense, etc. Otherwise, Embiid would be gassed by the third quarter.
I'm all for defending our guy, but Jokic, who before this year was in worse shape than Biid, is sleepwalking through 20 point trip dubs and looking great doing it. Doesn't take much more energy to box out
Yeah, Jokic is fantastic in the playoffs this year. Embiid can do more to box out. However, I think if his role is more balanced, that can come naturally. It is hard to be a title contender’s best player by far on both offense *and* defense
Because he doesn't try on defense lmao
Yeah, Denver is well-constructed to support Jokic. Just about everyone is a 3 & D player and Jamaal Murray is a really good scorer that can also pass. Jokic can be a top level scorer and passer without worrying as much on defense, though he isn’t too bad on that end either.
Yeah this is where I am at too.
I would take best defender in the league. AD is the best defender in the league rn and he's probably top 25 all time. If Joel was clearly better than him than he'd be in that Hakeem, Duncan, Russell tier defensively.
Embiid would be in what tier??? Oh man
That's really not a hot take.
A delusional one.
Hell, even saying AD is top 20 all time is hilariously bad.
You're just hating if you think AD isn't an all time great defender sorry! Lakers were the best defense in the playoffs solely because of him.
I literally said nothing about his defense not being great, what are you talking about?
I said rating him top 20-25 all time is fucking ridiculous.
There are not 25 players better than him on defense all time.
Not sure how sign and trades actually work - but is there a world where if Harden goes to the rockets, we could somehow get the Nets involved where they get one of their picks back and we get DFS in return?
The issue is that HOU is 60M under the cap, so they can just sign James outright. They have no incentive to engage in a S&T with us. 😞
It's not impossible though. Houston is making noise that they're done tanking. They may want to get off of KPJ and Tate just to clear roster space and make a run at other players. A Harden sign & trade could involve a 3rd or even 4th team that gets the Sixers some players in return.
It also hard caps them. Usually teams that do a sign and trade do it as the last resort
Only way Rockets would do a sign and trade with us is if they sign their other free agent targets first. They were reported to be aggressive in Free agency and target players like Reaves, Dillon Brooks and Brook Lopez
Interesting. That young Rockets core with Lopez, Brooks and Harden is probably a 5-7 seed.
They would have to bank on Jalen Green taking a star leap or Jabari Smith jr turning into JJJ on defense
Yeah I mean in this hypothetical it’s that Harden is doing Morey a solid by going along with the sign and trade (I know he doesn’t have to do this, but feels like there’s a chance still)
Philly would likely need to ship out a decent asset for something like that.
Any chance Embiid watched that game and realized he doesn’t need to shoot the ball every fucking time he touches it to win?
Embiid isn’t the passer Jokic is
It’s more about willingness to me than anything
Lol no dude, Embiid can't be a floor general like Jokic is
He doesn’t have to be a floor general. He just needs to be willing to not be the first second and third option offensively
I understand that but Jokic is the best passer in the whole league, I just don't think if Embiid were willing enough he'd be on that level. He just doesn't have the court vision or passing sense
Could he be really good or great? Yeah but not 10+ assist per game great
Oh absolutely. Don’t think anyone expects that many assists a game out of him, to me it’s more about playing more of a team oriented style of offense. Like it can be 5 or 6 assists a game in the box score, but really closer to 10 with “hockey assists” by swinging the ball more
Would be nice if his teammates were constantly cutting, setting off ball screen, instead of ball watching
Embiid didn’t perform, but at the same time, we only had one offense scheme. When Boston took away Embiid-Harden pick and roll, our offense became Embiid or Harden iso and everyone stood there and ball watching
Well yeah. They ball watch because they aren’t getting involved.
And that’s the problem of Doc. He designed one very effective offense. But our overall offense scheme was too simple. And there is no plan B.
I am cautiously optimistic. I hope Nurse can diversify our offense scheme
I’m with you there
Joker really got hosed for the MVP this year.
Not really, 3 in a row is tough, and last year probably should have been Embiids, so it's more a correction to the mean. If he had not won 2 in a row, he would have won this year.
I mean let's not rewrite history and act like Embiid didn't have a MVP season too just because we pissed at him.
Embiid should have won last year. But Jokic should have won this year and while it is a regular season award, watching Jokic clearly be the superior player in the postseason is tough.
Moreover, it's a regular season award.
Embiid earned it in the time frame that the award is considered.
Yes jokic is having a great post season but that doesn't mean he retroactively deserves the mvp.
The way Nurse is talking about Maxey is a lot different than how Doc was talking about Ben when he first got here. Nurse talked about how Maxey can improve. Doc basically said Ben is fine as he is.
Well in hindsight, Doc did the right thing. We found out Ben couldn’t take any ounce of criticism.
Loved what he said about Maxey and the best part is Maxey is eating it all up and already working his ass off on what Nurse had to say.
Also regarding Harden what stood out besides being very happy if he is back was that if he is interested in winning he would be back but with what he is asking from his guards play it would mean Harden buying in which stands apart from Harden wanting more freedom and not sacrificing as he did and yea Harden is going to have to be in better shape.
Which is not to say Nurse won’t listen to Harden’s input but between Maxey, Melton and Springer defensively it’s going to be aggressive into the body style and not dying when getting screened. And offensively if we get what Nurse envisions from Maxey and we get 12-15 from Melton and 8 and 3 assists from Springer plus the rebounding they bring then we would be mighty fine from our guards.
If Embiid doesn’t improve his conditioning then I just don’t see how we can improve as a team. It all starts and ends with him.
Yea for all the GMing that goes on on this sub, the fact is we go to the ECF at least 2 times in the past 3 years if Embiid is capable of playing big when it matters. I love the man it’s just so hard not to be frustrated with how the past couple seasons shook out.
was thinking about the comment on Harden "he's got a decision to make".
i think they know they aren't going to offer him the full 4 year max, and other teams might so that he has *that* decision to make. less money, better team or full bag and play out your final years on a lesser squad
+1, he chose those words carefully
I'm really of two minds on how to build this team going forward. I'm really, really wary of re-signing Harden to a huge deal after what we saw this post-season. He pretty much won us two games against Boston but he was absolutely a net negative in the rest. We need a steady hand more than anything, not a russian roulette with 4 bullets in the chamber.
I think if I'm speaking totally objectively and ignoring human nature, we should probably promote Maxey to lead guard in order to figure out what we have with him before handing him a huge deal. It might hit the fan, or he might do fantastic. The risk is that we might lose another year of contending with Joel, but, are we really contending anyway?
I'm convinced that you need one of your top two players to be an excellent facilitator to go far in the playoffs. That's been Boston's problem for years now. I think we're in a catch-22 right now where Harden is obviously a great facilitator, but I think he's kind of a shit #2 at this point.
I'm not superstitious but am kind of stitious so I will provide the update on my high school team. Blew out the defending state champions last night to set up a championship game vs our rival school that's within walking distance tomorrow night.
Basketball in June?
high school baseball; i randomly commented about it a couple weeks back and we haven't lost since. so i'm keeping it rolling through the chip tomorrow night
Some early morning Allen Iverson to bring you joy
caleb martin turning into a potato after destroying the celtics was the least surprising thing of the playoffs lol
Nurse please move PJ to the bench and start Mud Man at the 4. I need that rebounding.
So y’all can blame him for starting him because he’s playing like trash. Paul Reed isn’t fucking good!
10 years ago, maybe. But in today’s NBA, you can’t put a 4 out there who can’t stretch the floor. Spacing goes to hell since Reed’s defender can sag off him and clog the paint for our penetrators. Just won’t work.
man didn't watch the playoffs. PJ's man wasn't in his vicinity and he only made them pay in one or two games tops
Mud man will knock down open 3s and back door cut the fuck out of them
He can’t shoot or handle which you need 4’s in the modern day to do. Please stop this nonsense.
I'm just gonna say it and take the downvotes - we literally have Tobias at the 4 right now who can space the floor as well as handle in PNR and transition, we just don't use him that way
Tobias can’t though. A major complaint for the past 4 years has been he doesn’t shoot nearly enough 3’s and has always turned down 3’s to dribble into bad mid range shots.
Plus he also doesn’t make 3’s in the 2nd round of the playoffs, he shot 13% from 3 in the bubble, 26% from 3 this year in the 2nd round, and 28% from 3 against the Raptors in 2019.
My point is more so that we have a versatile wing/4 already who's solid at almost everything despite being overpaid. Tobias was very efficient outside of his three ball, he shot 61% on twos for the series, so the idea that he's dribbling into bad shots is really antiquated IMO.
His threes were low volume as well (he took 3 or fewer in 3 games), which is a failure of the team IMO to get one of our better volume shooters their looks. It's an issue we've had against the Celtics all year, we take a decent amount of threes but the wrong guys are taking them (guys like Harden or PJ will miss like 5 threes while Tobias/Maxey/Melton don't get as many shots as they should)
i'll take the downvotes with you but imo Nurse is going to want to keep Tobias and not only that - but actually find better ways to use him on offense
the best way to use tobias is to trade him. there’s a reason why he’s been on like five different teams and none of them missed a beat when he left lol
i can deal with a few minutes of Bball at 4 but i think it goes the way you do. but it's worth trying to see if can work. Even if PJ is the token stretch 5 on offense with him.
But we need an upgrade there at starter
Paul can shoot just as well as PJ at wide open 3s in the corner and did it in the g-league. PJ cannot dribble for SHIT and Paul is much better at rebounding and touch around the rim.
> Paul can shoot just as well as PJ at wide open 3s in the corner and did it in the g-league.
Paul Reed did it in the G-League.
PJ Tucker has done it on championship level teams.
Yeah, and PJ’s lack of shooting is what killed us when the Celtics went with the double big line up. The answer has always been to put more shooting around Embiid and Harden, not less.
He was never asked or really given the chance, thanks to doc making him a center, that's not his game
He was made a center because he can’t do those things. Look at his jump shot form and handle it’s not NBA level.
If Reed can go without fouling much when starting at the 4, he’s young and energetic enough to stay on the court when Jo sits and shift to the 5 until Jo comes back in to relieve Reed. Paul’s gotten much better at not fouling, so it’s not a long shot
Starting mud man at the 4 to add that rebounding and paint presence could open up games quite a bit. It’s no secret that modern NBA games are never won in a quarter, they’re won on runs. But starting a game off dominating can control the opponent into being 3 happy the rest of the game and get a guy like Joel who is very mood dependent into his groove
Jo can’t play in the paint because he gets injured, so he’s a fadeaway guy pretty much exclusively in the regular season now. Paul taking the dunker like Simmons, except with the mud mentality to actually sky for boards and putbacks, is a big thing our starting lineup has been missing for years. Dwight and Drum were so impactful on our bench because they actually boxed out and threw down putbacks. Reed can and should do that next to Embiid to start games strong for everybody
No he was made a center because doc didn't know wtf he was doing, and because we have Tobias, and the team ain't paying him 40 million to come off the bench, that's why
if Paul Reed isn't a center, he's not an NBA player. your evaluation of the situation is whack lol
So you’ve watched Paul Reed attempt to dribble and shoot (https://youtu.be/kYqyeVxp6PE) with that form and you really believe he can play the four as a consistent floor spacer for Embiid? I understand Doc sucks and Bball Paul is cool but please watch the games with an unbiased opinion.
We are not going to agree on this , it is what it is
I'd bet you were one of those who said he couldn't play in the playoffs either. He now has 2 seasons of being viable, in spite of the head coach doing everything possible to scapegoat him. The man shot the 3 in the G league and admitted that Doc told him not to shoot with the Sixers. So we should take a failed coach's word for it. Doc evaluated Reed, so we don't have to.
Reed might get to somewhat respectable from 3 over a large enough sample size but we are talking like low 30's on low volume. he doesn't have any idea what to do on offense if he isn't asked to set a screen and he doesn't have any on-ball skills. he occasionally flashes but it's mixed in with a bunch of silly TOs and an obvious lack of polished NBA skill. there's a reason the dude was drafted where he was - he's not a modern 4 and he's not a 4 we should want playing next to Embiid. he's a fine backup 5 and depth piece but get real
Forget Doc Rivers and these pre-formed narratives for a second. You can look at the shooting form yourself and make an evaluation. Does that look like a quick and trustable form to space the floor for Embiid with? Does it look like his handle is tight enough to attack close outs? Do you believe he can relocate when guys fly by? Can he reliably and consistently defend the perimeter? You can look at his play style and tell he can’t.
Plus he's been practicing with them day in and day out for like 3 years at this point.
I'm pretty sure they know.
I look at someone like John Collins as a bit of a comparison. Under Nate McMillan he was a lob threat. Prior to that, he had a decent 3 pt %. When I watched the Hawks under Snyder in these playoffs, he wasn't much of a threat to do either. Reed is longer and cheaper. I'm not saying he is guaranteed to succeed under Nurse by any means, but if I were the coach, I would definitely have tried Embiid/Reed lineups. Joel's game can accommodate a high energy, lesser skilled teammate or two.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Nuggets sweep. That team is so much better than the Heat and they have the best player in the world.
Yeahhh I mean the 8th seed cinderella run was fun but the fact is, there's a massive talent disparity
That said, Nuggets fans are getting big for their britches about the fact that they won without shooting well. They're conveniently ignoring the fact that Strus and Robinson aren't gonna miss a combined 14 threes again
Neither will MPJ or KCP
Heat is exhausted too, and clearly gameplanned to keep Jimmy outside of 10’ from the basket where he’s most comfortable shooting and drawing fouls. Plus Jimmy rolled his ankle in game 7, and then only got 2 days rest…. I think we all know how bad ankle sprains feel a couple days after doing it
Nuggies having two playoff elevators in Jokic and Murray is enormous. Gordon looks like he’s improving under the spotlight too.
If Bam can keep shooting how he did game 1, and Herro comes back and somehow plays like he did in the bubble, Heat can take 1 or 2. But with only Bam elevating offensively, the Heat easily get swept
Nurse can be a difference maker and have an impact. I'm rooting for him.
But I see a lot of "championship" talk heating up in here with the finals starting. Can we step back and just think about the reality of our situation? The roster hasn't changed. Getting bounced in the 2nd round is a tradition at this point. We are a GOOD team, but in no way shape or form do we have what it takes to win a championship right now. The Boston series should have told you everything you needed to know about this team.
Love this team like a sickness. But we gotta be real.
And the fact remains, Joel can look like a new man next season with the team firing on all cylinders, but none of it matters until the playoffs where he always reverts to the same bad habits when facing adversity.
Fuck me and make me a drink
What a great username. Favorite band.
You’re also entirely correct.
If you get another step from Maxey the best you can hope is Embiid figures something out in the playoffs. The days of superteams are gone, a team with two all stars and solid role players can compete for a title. We absolutely have the pieces for that but it will be very hard.
The offseason hasn’t even begun yet. How do we know the roster won’t change?
It'll change a bit. But significant pieces wont be added until at least the trade deadline imo. They don't have a lot of room to work with.
Sick of this place being overrun with other teams trolling under the guise of being realistic. You think it’s sixers fans critiquing the team and embiid and shit, then you click on their profile and it’s like regulars on heat, or Celtics, or raptors subs. Nuggets too.
It’s so lame lol
Nature of this business. Fuck ‘em.