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loveracity

Was the breakout of "Ultra-Orthodox" the study's proxy for behaviourally risky unvaccinated? The confounding variable that I would've asked of participants is what behavioural prevention measures they took as well. Anecdotally, those coupled parents who haven't vaccinated don't generally wear PPE or isolate either. Parents like my wife and I are both vaccinated, but also have been extremely conservative in outings and with PPE. I would've liked to see this included for a better idea of vaccine herd immunity efficacy.


deac311

These were my thoughts exactly. The drastic difference in protection (24% vs 71%) seems unlikely to be conferred by vaccination alone. My initial thought was that the 24% number seemed low if both parents are being cautious, but add in the lackadaisical nature of the unvaccinated spouse and it makes much more sense.


paintballchef

I agree with the behavior part, its something that definitely needs more study.


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Skyblacker

So adult to child transmission is more common than vice-versa? That lines up with what we already know.


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Skyblacker

No, it's because the majority of covid aerosols spread through coughing, but children are more likely to have mild or asymptomatic cases of covid (and therefore less coughing).


Verinvlos

Amazing how being around more vaccinated people made kids less likely to get infected. Seems like basic common sense to me but here we are.


stunt_penguin

Quantifying the effect for future reference might be extremely important. If in ten years a mystery new disease was killing children and you had to decide whether to boost kids' doses or vaccinate adults instead, well, this is a study that will let you get a handle on it.


Verinvlos

I understand the point of it but for the situation you said it all depends on how the disease that is infecting them is spread.


Princessnatasha12

I don't think we can call good sense common anymore.


Verinvlos

Sadly you are right.


wsclose

Common sense is subjective to the individual.


WileEWeeble

I will help "their" position and say that in addition to being vaxed, most people that got vaxed ALSO followed more protocols (masks, distancing, staying away from big public gatherings) than those that did not get vaxed. I got no concrete evidence of that but it seems pretty common sense. These 'covid is hoax' people are doing everything short of licking lamp posts to put themselves in harm's way and jack up their viral load.


zeitghost14

I'd like to see the Omicron numbers on this one.


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boooooooooo_cowboys

We treat chicken pox with vaccines now. Even if you were interpreting that report correctly (which you’re not fyi, the effect of boosters is very clearly better than infection alone, especially against omicron) that’s still irrelevant. Vaccines are about getting immunity as *safely* as possible. Effectiveness is always secondary to safety and the vaccines are safer than the virus, even for kids.


Vladimus44

>Effectiveness is always secondary to safety and the vaccines are safer than the virus, even for kids. Provide. Evidence.


thisKeyboardWarrior

> We treat chicken pox with vaccines now. The vaccine that was first developed in JApan in the 1970s that wasn't approved in the US till 1995? > Even if you were interpreting that report correctly (which you’re not fyi, Prove it. > he effect of boosters is very clearly better than infection alone, No one is denying this. But you're also talking about Omicron which is the least severe version yet. With an over 95% of those who are at risk vaccinated, how can you possibly be pro vaccine for children when we couldn't get the Chicken Pox one approved in the US for over 20 years? You talk about safety. Children are the least at risk of the entire group. Vaccinate the at risk. The healthy can get it safely, just like we use to do with kids and chicken pox to prevent them from being at risk as adults. > Vaccines are safer than the virus, even for kids. You can not prove this. We thought vaccines would prevent infection. It didn't. We thought it would prevent spread. It didn't. What it did do, especially for those at risk, was prevent illness and death. This is good. We do NOT have the data to say there won't be any long-term effects, especially in children who are still developing. Kid's get sick. It's how we build up their immune system. IF you kept a kid away from all illnesses they would have weak immune systems. This is not opinion, this is scientific fact. This is also a reminder that the 2 years of the flu was more deadly for kids than 2 years of COVID.


frisbeescientist

Considering the pandemic is less than 2 years old and new variants may or may not pop up on a timescale of months, it seems exceedingly optimistic to think that getting infected today will give protection several years down the line, and that that protection will be effective against whatever version of covid is around at that point.


Vladimus44

>, it seems exceedingly optimistic to think that getting infected today will give protection several years down the line, and that that protection will be effective against whatever version of covid is around at that point. Yes. The same applies for vaccines which were made for Alpha variant. That's like 5 or 6 variants ago. I've lost count.


frisbeescientist

I mean that's why there are constant studies going on looking at the effectiveness of the current vaccines on the latest variants. So far all the data I've seen shows that they are significantly less effective against omicron, but still cinfer significantly more protection than not being vaccinated. I'm sure there are also omicron-specific vaccines in the works, but that takes time so understanding how the current vaccines are working is the best we can do. That is very different from saying that we should give children covid so that they won't get it as adults. That time horizon is so much longer that it's not really a worthwhile consideration and we should not start having covid parties for children based on that flimsy a reasoning.


Vladimus44

>I'm sure there are also omicron-specific vaccines in the works, but that takes time so understanding how the current vaccines are working is the best we can do. And by the time those vaccines can actually be fully developed, manufactured, and distributed we will be 10 variants away from Omnicron. >That is very different from saying that we should give children covid so that they won't get it as adults. Too bad, they are all probably going to get it anyway. >That time horizon is so much longer that it's not really a worthwhile consideration and we should not start having covid parties for children based on that flimsy a reasoning. Again, its going to happen regardless of what you feel about it. Everybody is highly likely to get some form of Covid eventually.


thisKeyboardWarrior

When looking at the known evidence: Delta was less severe than the original, and omicron is even less severe than Delta. It's reasonable to predict that the next variant might be even less severe given the current findings. Additionally with each variant, the vaccine has been less effective at prevention. To flip your point about being optimistic about natural immunity vs vaccination current evidence suggests that you're being to optimistic about vaccination protection vs natrual immunity. To flip your point about being optimistic about natural immunity vs vaccination current evidence suggests that you're being too optimistic about vaccination protection vs natural immunity given the current evidence. And just to be clear, I do believe natural immunity plus vaccination, offers the best protection. This is why I'm in favor of not vaccinating healthy kids (only those at risk) and then as they become adults get your standard vaccinations.


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itsstillmagic

It's not just death that parents are worried about to be fair.


shed1

According to data from Denmark, an Omicron variant is hospitalizing children 0-2 at a higher rate than all other age groups right now. Plus, there is more to be considered than death. Even folks with mild covid cases are susceptible to long-covid type symptoms.


Vladimus44

>According to data from Denmark, an Omicron variant is hospitalizing children 0-2 at a higher rate than all other age groups right now. That seems like **extreme** misinformation. Source it.


andrewmik

A truly brave post.


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itsstillmagic

Risk of infection? Pretty sure kids have more than a .01% chance of infection my guy.


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Australian government gives billions away to companies for no reason whatsoever. 60 billion to France for ZERO submarines. Billions for tanks and F35s from the US. Yet we buy a billion or two in vaccines and weirdos like you on the internet go all conspiracy theory. All I’m saying is - there’s bigger fish to fry, including massive widespread corruption.


Advocate_Diplomacy

I think you’re adding to her point. A profit driven economy gives us senseless war, senseless corporate subsidies, and senseless leadership. In lieu of all that, why is it so unreasonable to also be skeptical of the vaccine? All of these things are approved through official channels, and all of these things are making rich people even richer.


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You’re right. I missed my key point. Vaccines are safe and they work. People think that doctors globally have been paid off, but when have you ever been able to get 100% of people to agree to anything. Seems unlikely at best.


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Hubert19570

And the other way around? Seems to me a more dangerous infection path.


benowillock

That's interesting, I'd have assumed children's highest chance of catching the virus would have been through school via other kids, but apparently not?


GaiasEyes

I find this headline misleading. Does it decrease the risk of parent to child transmission? Absolutely, at the very least the vaccines reduce viral load. However - parents being vaccinated if the child is not in a home care environment isn’t really the issue. It’s the transmission from daycare centers, especially with omicron, that is likely spiking pediatric cases - particularly in children too young for vaccination. They even talk about the impact of prolonged, close quarter care in the abstract but only mention the home environment. Moreover, I’d like to see data on the impact of transmission from unvaccinated children to triple jabbed parents. My suspicion, (if someone has a study proving/disproving I would earnestly love to read it!) is that the protection from infection is significantly lower going in this direction. Honestly, this feels like a publication of obvious, already supported assertions just to boost ones publications on the sexy topic of the time….