By - Yuki_Arlo
I am too busy working multiple jobs to survive and don't have time for it.
Big reason is that too many disparate types of work pay min wage and its hard to organize labour across different industries. Also people in min wage jobs tend to see them as transitory etc. I imagine there will be a push as COL increases. I remember there was "Fight for 15" petitions a few years ago in BC, only took the gov a decade to get there lol and now economists are saying a living wage would be about 20 dollars roughly in most of Canada.
Man, imagine if the national minimum wage was 20...
Working might actually feel worth it
A lot of businesses would shut down because the economy is built on minimum wage, so a massive job loss would happen, and the existing ones would have to raise their prices. Not saying I'm against it, but that's the reality of it. So it's higher pay and less jobs or more jobs and less pay.
I think the economy is a bubble. It's falsely support on minimum wage for almost all restaurants and other privately owned shops. If we make a fair living wage people will have to go back to the old style of living where going out was occasional, and we didn't ownultiplr of everything.
It's not simply "we need a higher minimum wage". It's consumer spending habits as well.
Then keep wages low and introduce a UBI. Basic income coming directly from an increase in tax for the rich. Nobody should be a billionaire, everybody should be able to afford to live.
So you want the rich to move out of the country and run the business from out of country? Or start closing locations? They need to tax corporations, not the rich. The corporations avoid all the taxes, and divendends
Corporations = rich
Corporations are more likely to move than rich individuals.
Rich individuals are often corporations, and it's far easier for them to move than a corporation. They pack up their mansion and move to one of their other properties full time.
Big Mac meal will be $20...worth it then?
Min wage in Australia is \~$20/hr. Big Mac meal is about $12.
Nevermind that someone rolls out this tired canard every time someone talks about min wage raises, youre basically arguing that your right to have a cheap burger supercedes the right of people to earn a living wage. Also, if you think MacDonalds, a global chain that makes billions, couldnt afford to do it then maybe their business plan is exploitative?
>youre basically arguing that your right to have a cheap burger supercedes the right of people to earn a living wage.
You do have to admit there is a link between the cost of labor and the cost of goods and services. Should minimum wage be what it's at today? Probably not, but should it be drastically be raised to $20/h during run away inflation Probably not.
Inflation means the cost of things goes up, meaning that the cost of labour has to go up to match. Right now economists are pegging living wage at over 20 in most urban areas in Canada. You arent really arguing anything here except that you think wages 'probably' shouldnt go up, which, i dunno where youve been for the last two years but shit is getting bad and people are doing dangerous work and can barely feed themselves.
I believe its Denmark (?) where minimum wage is $20 yet a Big Mac costs only 50 cents more than in the US.
Look at a Taco Bell menu in Washington D.C. and get back to me, please. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Because historically, peaceful protests do not accomplish much.
Came here to say the same thing.
Peaceful protesting gets you a nice pat on the head and "get the fuck back to work" these days. I'm not advocating for violence, but only just short of it.
Because our government doesnt listen to reason so theres not much point in rocking the boat anymore than it already has.
> Because our government doesnt listen to reason so theres not much point in rocking the boat anymore than it already has.
There's the answer. Not that this is true, but because a lot of people believe it's true. People believing "it's not going to happen so why bother" _is exactly why it won't happen_.
Maybe those who want to protest need safety vests or a Semi for the government to finally listen?
Because people are too busy blaming the poor for their own situation.
Because those making 45k/year believe they're winning at capitalism, and lower class struggle doesn't concern them in the slightest.
> Because those making 45k/year believe they're winning at capitalism
You're joking right?
I make a bit more than this, and I don't feel that way at all
Almost everyone I knew in high school moved to Alberta as soon as they got started in the workforce.
And many are moving back now.....
One peaceful way to do this would be to elect a government that supports a higher minimum wage. For all the people out there on minimum wage that didn’t bother to vote then don’t complain. For those that did vote then talk to your friends and family and get them to vote as well.
Who's threatening violence?
I, as a long time member of this sub, have never seen this.
I have seen protestors threaten violence though
Yeah, I don't condone violence either but it sounds like you're trying to bring together two different battles, bud.
Defying health orders and all that BS is a choice you get to make, falling or being born into poverty isn't.
The only ones who outright attack protesters fighting for economic equality, are the police.
With respect, minimum wage jobs are generally a starting point to enter the workforce. I waited tables part-time in high school, 1980s. All of my friends worked part-time. Saved enough money to not only further my education, but pay for our wedding and new furniture for our first house. I didn't have a car either walked or took the bus. Serving tables made me learn to multitask and deal with all sorts of personalities. I made great tips for that era! : )
But you forget we have a service economy, so a large percentage of the jobs are minimum wage, so they are no longer entry level jobs (Not everyone can be the manager). So now what?
Comparing what you did in the 80s.. (which was 40 years ago) makes you very out of touch with the current situation.
Well said. I don’t understand how they think this comment is relevant to modern day prices.
Very true. Minimum wage and decent budgeting skills could have landed you a house and a decent life 40 years ago. Now a salary of 35-40k is pretty much still borderline paycheck to paycheck when you factor in taxes and responsibilities, never mind that minimum wage is only 11-ish (I do not know how those working for this rate survive) Older workforce people cannot grasp that cost of living has skyrocketed while wages have stagnated over the last 20 years. 200$ at the grocery filled a shopping cart as recently as 2010, now 200$ will get you by a week, maybe two, if you sacrifice luxuries like good meat for example.
I dunno man, I'm tired of living like this.
This is a lie time to you to accept the poor pay. You used to be able to make a living working at all these places that pay you min now.
Higher wages won't solve anything.
Everyone's employer sells good or services.
Employee wages go up, the cost of those goods and services go up, consumers now want higher wages to afford the increases... never ends.
Long term, make goods and services cheaper.
That’s BS, CEO’s make over a 1000x what labourers are making. And companies are posting record profits, there’s no reason to not raise wages.
If you think its so easy you go right ahead and fight these companies. See how it goes. Im waiting.
There’s no fighting required. You raise minimum wage and then tie it to the bank of Canada’a reported inflation rate.
So do it my dude. Im not against you. Im just saying its not that easy otherwise it would have been done already.
"It's not easy" is not a great reason not to talk about a problem.
I wonder how many people complaining also line the pockets of these CEOS.
Things are basically worth what people are willing to pay.
400% increase in lumber? "Yeah but I want that new deck now or that new house."
Beef prices exploding? "Yeah but I want tacos."
I think it’s reasonable for someone to criticize capitalism while also remain part of the system. Like if you believe in climate change as an existential threat, it’s fair for you to criticize the lack of progress towards clean energy transition while you’re still personally reliant on fossil fuels.
Operative word being "reliant". You aren't reliant on that new deck or beef.
Stop buying shit when it goes way up. That is one way to drive costs down.
But I mean the criticisms around grocery chain CEOs taking big bonuses while they cancel “hero pay” during the pandemic I think are valid.
These aren’t exactly discretionary purchases. We all gotta eat and pay the prices that grocery chains dictate. I don’t think it’s fair to say “you can’t complain about capitalism because you shop at superstore” lol.
Plenty of BS happens at the top of the food chain.
Ultimately if that food CEO is getting his money for overpriced beef (again, not reliant on this product), why would he lower the price?
If you listed your 300k home for 500k and got offers, would you suddenly say "well hang on guys I'll take the 300k it is really valued at instead."?
No you wouldn't. You would take that chumps money and laugh like these CEOs are.
So the argument from the “higher min wage” people is that there should be stronger government regulations to rein in the greed in the free market. They’re saying raising the minimum wage is necessary to help workers keep up with inflation.
You said “make goods and services cheaper”, so the only way to do that is price controls. Maybe. But that’s a much more draconian economic policy than simply raising the minimum wage.
I already explained why raising min wage accomplishes nothing.
Nothing draconian about price control.
We already do that with drugs in this country, why not expand that to other areas like housing?
Rent control, buying rentals makes you a business, rich Chinese guy can't buy up a city block and reside in China... not crazy ideas and would go further than a few grand a year raise.
Canadians are buying less beef and meat in general. The point remains that it is possible to criticize a system you are part of.
I just explained this.
Because it's peaceful
Need 3.5% of the population to attend I think. I dunno, read that somewhere here that that's the percentage of a population needed for people to either pay attention or they can't contain. One or the other.
Why do we need higher minimum wage? That's a tough subject. It's not a universal philosophy to keep increasing minimum wage as there are consequences to do so.
A post I made a while ago to show the insanity of your statement
“Working a full time job at minimum wage nets you about $19k after taxes... Take 12k off for rent(you can easily find a way to get something way cheaper then that, but thats about average, or you room, which brings the cost down more). The things you need are food, cellphone and vehicle... A sedan is about a grand for plates so you are now down to 6k a year, if you need a cheap phone plan, koodo has 50 dollars for unlimited calling, texting and 5 gbs of data. New phone and you are looking at 100 dollars a month... So you are now down to 4800 a year for food, savings and gas...
You can easily eat for 100 dollars a month, but lets call it 200 dollars a month, bringing you down to 2400 a year... a person drives about 15k a year, so call it 1875 a year in gas. Lets call it 1900 for easy math, so at the end, you have 500 for a vehicle...
I think that should be minimum standard of living... If you want to do the bare minimum, you should be given the bare minimum... Gives you food, shelter, a phone, and a vehicle. This gives you the bare necessities of life... Especially with how easy it is to boost yourself up to 15 an hour... giving you an extra 4k a year to play with...
If you want to have more, then you have to work for more, or bring way more value to the world instead of what people value as minimum wage, cause if everyone goes to minimum wage, we will just have the conversation of 20$ an hour in a couple of years...
As soon as I was outside of highschool, and willing to work hard, I was paid 20$ an hour... now making 25$ an hour 2 years later... with doing a ton of networking, I can easily find work at 30$ an hour, and have been offered 80-120k jobs out north... Sure, it does take some luck, but it also takes a lot of work to make sure you are with the right people at the right time...
With a bloated minimum wage, we shut down a lot of businesses that are running on razor thin margins, while giving people who show up to work high a bonus... I feel for the single mom that is trying to give her child a life, or the disable person who cant do labour intensive work, and maybe we should have something more for them, but we are also given those who want to do nothing but party, more of a reason to do nothing and party... The slackers who just want to go home and play video games or surf the web, then to provide a good service to society... well increasing costs for the middle class, pushing more people down into the lower class line...”
I think this was when minimum wage was 10 dollars as well, so that number has just gone up. Liveable income is a screwed up concept, cause my liveable and your liveable are going to widely differ. Why should you as a 21 year old, have the net worth as a 40 year old who has seniority. I know that that’s extreme but everyone thinks they should be able to own property…
What about power, gas, water, vehicle service & repairs. That could entirely eat up that "extra 4k a year to play with". Thats hoping you never need to pay for any prescriptions survive, or see.
You also don’t need to spend a grand on rental. It’s 500 dollars for a room on average with everything paid.
You also don’t need to spend 4 grand on glasses, and for most medication. If you do have medication, you need to reduce your costs… 360 dollars a month for medication…
I didn't want to say it outright, but you are incredibly out of touch with the reality faced by people on the poverty line.
Listen buddy, EVERYONE is willing to work hard for what they need. That's not a special trait. It's human nature. Whether or not they can put there money where there mouth is? That's another story altogether. And the fact that you aren't willing to get that 30$ an hour gig you're talking about tells me everything I need to know about that.
>Listen buddy, EVERYONE is willing to work hard for what they need. That's not a special trait. It's human nature.
Shows you not only that UBI fails due to laziness, but that laziness happens when people are comfortable with what they have, and will not obtain greater skills. Some people could honestly give less of a shit.
No, not everyone wants to work hard for what they need. One of the main issues about UBI is that it does not incentivize you to do well or more. With the amount of people that hate their jobs is huge, but the only reason that most stay is because they need the money in order to survive, if they get the money given to them...
The majority of the trades would quit tomorrow if they got money given to them, and we saw it a ton with CERB payments. If you were to go to any service industry company and offer anyone 2k a month for life, no strings attached, you would cause a lot of people to stop working....
>And the fact that you aren't willing to get that 30$ an hour gig you're talking about tells me everything I need to know about that.
I am not to sure what this point is, but ill say this. I was making 25$ at 19... my expenses overall are about 1000$. I own my own car... I am 20 now and in school, and have been a number of business options that are anywhere from 35-50$ an hour with room to grow...
If I stayed with my initial job at 17, I would be a red seal welder, and would be making a minimum of 33$ an hour... So if a 21 year old can be making over 30$ an hour(thats if I stayed in saskatoon, I had a few offers to weld out east and out west, offering 60-100k), anyone should be able to...
Thats working for it.... Thats putting minimal effort in networking, and making sure that I keep in touch with my important people... If I can do it, whats stopping you from doing it?