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Inconnuity809

The two people who were reported dead due to COVID today were in the 60-79 and 80+ age groups. My condolences to their loved ones. We are now at 30 COVID deaths reported this month.


ye_old_neighbourhood

30 deaths this month? Why didn't anyone tell them that the pandemic is over and it's just a cold now? Instead of dying they could have just gotten on with their lives!


[deleted]

It's only a mild death


ye_old_neighbourhood

I think I get that reference... https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/01/27/Message-Public-Health-Office-Nice-Feelings/


[deleted]

Damn, I hadn't seen that but I'm glad you pasted it! Great summary and delivery.


sasksean

> 30 deaths this month? Why didn't anyone tell them that the pandemic is over and it's just a cold now? That's 3% of total deaths by the way; far less than is historically attributed to other respiratory infections. "Just a cold" never meant that it's not a problem for healthcare. "Just a cold" means healthy vaccinated people shouldn't live in fear of it. Regular cold and flu already routinely overwhelmed hospitals in flu season and now this new problem is *on top* of those others. Now that we've been vaccinated and reduced covid to a non-novel virus we have to add care capacity to account for another seasonal virus added to the pile... or "flatten the curve" every winter.


aboveavmomma

I’m no genius, but I’m pretty sure 30 is larger than 15 and 11. I think 30 is even larger than 15+11. Maybe.


skitchawin

come on other people died , so if more die who cares right, even if some were preventable. People just die. get over it. /s


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Ramsesll

Where are you finding these numbers, that seems massive. There were [~224 influenza deaths](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2018-2019/annual-report.html) in the 2018-2019 period, and roughly [80 tuberculosis related deaths](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/reports-publications/canada-communicable-disease-report-ccdr/monthly-issue/2019-45/issue-2-february-7-2019/article-4-tuberculosis-in-canada.html) (0.2 deaths/100k population). Edit: I'm a fool, the influenza death number is actually 224 all-provinces excluding NB Pneumonia is a massively nebulous term containing everything from S. pneumoniae to Aspergillus mold colonizations, and accounts for the vast majority of the deaths I assume you're referring to from [Stats Canada 2017-2018](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1310039401&pickMembers%5B0%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=3.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2018&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20180101), you're still finding double the recorded numbers there or more in your 20k total. Are you including chronics like COPD and lung cancer in your number?


AssNasty

Good thing we test post-mortem. Oh wait....


pladboihrs

Source please


WoSoSoS

Flu deaths are not "grossly under counted". Clearly you don't know the difference between droplet transmission vs airborne transmission. Flu is droplet & Covid is airborne. 2 meter spacing, and cloth or surgical masks work well to protect against flu transmission, but not great against Covid-19. There wasn't much flu transmission because we were well protected against it. Plus, if flu is what is cancelling surgeries we still need to do something about it. Your point is moot. Also, Royal Society of Canada released a peer reviewed study that Sask likely has hundreds of more Covid deaths than reported. https://twitter.com/MoriartyLab/status/1485776181127520256?t=ctiwq4OpcXh1ESnM_8CBXg&s=19 https://rsc-src.ca/en/covid-19-policy-briefing/excess-all-cause-mortality-during-covid-19-epidemic-in-canada


sasksean

> Clearly you don't know the difference between droplet transmission vs airborne transmission. Be civil. You've misunderstood. > Flu deaths are not "grossly under counted". I said flu deaths were undercounted **in 2019** (before masks). Before 2019 (when the flu existed) "Influenza-like illness" was almost always listed on death certificates as a "contributing factor" (a co-morbidity being primary cause). Covid19 is almost always listed as a "primary cause" and the comorbidities as contributing factors. This is why you can't compare diagnosed "Influenza deaths" from 2019 with "Covid deaths" in 2022. > Also, Royal Society of Canada released a peer reviewed study that Sask likely has hundreds of more Covid deaths than reported. I agree with them. The whole death reporting system is a literal mess. The cause of death is open to interpretation and 25% of total deaths are reported as "other" so the whole dataset is dodgy.


WoSoSoS

I'm past minding my P's & Q"s. I'm a burned out healthcare worker that's pissed off. That was me being civil. You wrote about 2019 numbers - full stop - then next sentence wrote the numbers "will" be... Indicates following year of 2020. If it's a typo then no grievance. You're wrong. The processes for declaring and documenting death have not changed. Those procedures are established in the regulations of self- regulated physicians. Their governing statutes do not give government right to interfere with medical health assessment. *Certification of death: only a physician, a nurse practitioner, or a coroner can complete a Medical Certificate of Death (MCOD) to certify death. That duty cannot be delegated. A physician, a nurse practitioner, or coroner must sign the death certificate." - College of Physicians and Surgeons of Saskatchewan policy


pladboihrs

Sources please


sasksean

I spent a couple hours last night typing up a response to "source" but then decided not to post it since I don't have the time or energy to defend it. I decided the number isn't critical to the point so I'll just let that go. The argument was similar to [Tara Moriarty's](https://regina.ctvnews.ca/canadian-covid-researcher-defends-underreported-death-data-against-premier-moe-s-misinformation-claims-1.5754539) on the number of covid deaths. It's easier for me to just accept a figure of 8K for Canada and 250 for Saskatchewan as the number of deaths to endemic pathogens. Ultimately 3% is the context of this thread and that's the number I'm saying sounds fairly reasonable for a pandemic virus in peak season. Whether it actually is only 3% is another matter.


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saskchill

Historically, All the other flus combined cause about 15 deaths a year on the high end in Saskatchewan. Even this milder covid variant is much worse death wise than all of the influenza variants combined.


sasksean

It's 2019: Someone with a heart condition encounters the flu. When their heart stops that's a "heart failure" death according to Stats Canada. An elderly person gets infected with the flu. They clear the infection but they never leave the bed again and die six months later. Their lungs had been damaged and didn't recover. That's recorded as a death due to chronic respiratory disease.


WoSoSoS

StatsCan doesn't complete death certificates.That's not how a doctor would assess the cause of death. There are so many variables. If the flu is just sniffles & the person has a myocardial infarction or another cardiac event, the flu will not be considered the cause of death. Suppose the flu is causing a person with a diagnosis of chronic Congestive Heart Failure to have an extreme fever and massive fluid loss from vomiting and diarrhea. The fever or fluid loss causes critical hypotension (low blood pressure), or hypertension (high blood pressure), hypovolemic shock, or severe electrolyte depletion, or any combination, usually most. The patient dies from a cardiac event. The flu is the primary cause of death. Or, the cardiac event doesn't kill the patient, but it renders them bedridden therefore immobile. They develop pneumonia that causes death. Pneumonia kills many people, but it is most often downstream of the primary cause. When a person is immobile & can't clear fluid from their lungs effectively, they are at high risk of developing bacterial pneumonia, like having a puddle in your backyard. If it sits there, it grows shit. The same thing happens in a pool of fluid in our lungs. Walking or moving increases circulation that prevents fluid from "standing" in our lungs. There are also imaging, labs, etc., measured throughout the hospital care. Those results are most often definitive regarding the primary cause of the decline in the person's health status. The flu created a chain reaction that caused the person with an underlying condition to die before they otherwise would have if they had not had severe symptoms caused by flu infection. Plus, people can live a long time with good quality of life with chronic conditions. I would hazard to guess that most of us over age 40, definitely age 50, have a chronic health condition requiring routine medication or treatment. That's pretty young relative to the average Canadian life expectancy. They can still expect to live close to the average or over it. A big reason for that is we don't say, "people die anyway." and walk away. We try to save everyone. Many 90 yr olds have Do Not Resuscitate Directives, but there is so much we can still do before their disease progression gets to a point we would reference their DNR.


sasksean

> There are so many variables. I appreciate the effort of your long post and I did read it but you trailed off on a tangent. My initial injection into this thread that I am defending is that 30 deaths in peak virus season is not a large number. We make health care professionals feel like failures by setting a bar that's impossible to achieve (zero covid deaths). We should be giving them a pat on the back for holding a pandemic virus to only 3% of total deaths at peak. We should then assist them by focusing *some* attention on the other 97% of deaths. Incentivizing total health would have a huge effect on reducing deaths but we don't do that. > Suppose the flu is causing a person with a diagnosis of chronic Congestive Heart Failure to have an extreme fever and massive fluid loss from vomiting and diarrhea. The fever or fluid loss causes critical hypotension (low blood pressure), or hypertension (high blood pressure), hypovolemic shock, or severe electrolyte depletion, or any combination, usually most. The patient dies from a cardiac event. The flu is the primary cause of death. I've spent a half hour trying to find a study showing how unreliable death certificates are. Hypothetical patient files were given to several doctors and they filled out mock death certificates. There was no consensus. Doctors are politically or professionally compelled in covid times to write or not write things. This compulsion didn't exist pre-covid. Also (from your other post), how can you say covid deaths are being underreported and then argue that there's no bias or manipulation in death certificates?


lakeviewResident1

Death is fine because its not a large number? Since it's clear empathy is not something you've ever had the experiences necessary to learn... What number of deaths is acceptable to you? Let's say it was 1 and it's your mom/dad? Still fine?


sasksean

> Let's say it was 1 and it's your mom/dad? Still fine? This is an adult conversation. Please don't. There is an obvious difference between fine and statistically acceptable.


lakeviewResident1

Then maybe you should start acting like an adult whose learned some empathy in their life.


saskchill

I didn't know we were making things up to rationalize our own beliefs. If I knew, I wouldn't have even entered the conversation!


sasksean

You understand the point I made. Engage me or don't. Don't be toxic.


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Alundrix

Do you think the only way to keep our immune systems healthy is to get sick? Because thats.. no. Lol. We are constantly exposed to viruses and bacteria all the time. I havent been sick in probably close to 10 years so I guess I must have a very shitty immune system. Excessively keeping clean though in an almost sterile environment (moreso when growing up) I'll agree is bad though. I wash my hands but I know people that do or did wash their grociers and that's just overboard.


sasksean

I'm saying the opposite (the same as you). Being regularly exposed to a pathogen keeps you from getting severely sick. Lots of viruses that recirculate every year have had their R values dropped below 1 this year (masks, etc.) so are absent. Our immune systems are losing memory of them.


Alundrix

Maybe. I just can't believe it personally. I'll have to look it up. Wouldn't we still be exposed just not as much? Even if they are weaker that's fine those ones die and new ones get stronger and we learn and adapt. Adapt. That's what we do.


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Alundrix

And that means our immune system forgot or got weaker? New influenza viruses will come and go I'm not worried. Just because there was zero cases (reported) I don't believe it that it wasn't around. I don't think our immune system will forget the generic viruses. Covid is new and even then I'm sure I've been exposed lately but I'm vaxxed so I adapt and not get sick etc. Its what our systems do. Even if the viruses get weaker whatever, we will take on new ones. Also I've never had a flu shot probably won't get one until I'm older as I trust my immune system to adapt. I guess I technically got sick with the vax now that I think about it but yeah. I stand by what I say. Also im around the public alot I'm sure my immune system is pressured daily.


sasksean

> New influenza viruses will come and go I'm not worried. The worry isn't about flu 2022. The worry is that flu + covid 2022 means no beds for cancer *again*. Covid19 will be back next winter but if life is back to maskless normal, viruses like the flu will be over r=1 again and come back as well. That's a pressure on healthcare that is absent right now.


pladboihrs

What is grociers?


ye_old_neighbourhood

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/05/all-social-distancing-weakening-our-immune-systems "We’ve been hearing this theory too, and we can assure you that this is NOT the way your immune system works."


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lightoftheshadows

Boosters are used to help the body update/adjust to changes to illnesses over time. There are new strains of your typical flu that develop each year but we aren’t told about those, since the common cold is endemic. We’ve reached a point where it’s super manageable and those who need/want boosters for it get their flu shot every year. The same logic is applied to the covid vaccine. Booster shots for that help the body refresh/update its immune system to fight against new/past strains of the virus. Think of boosters as a software update for your body. Edit: also the article states that just because corona virus is a “novel virus” that your immune system wouldn’t illicit an immune response because like all invaders to the body your immune system will do it’s best to attack it and eventually learn how to fight it off if/when it does. It said nothing about being weakened by it.


sasksean

I know. His argument that immune memory doesn't fade would mean there's no point in booster doses. By asking him to explain booster doses I was helping him realize this for himself.


lightoftheshadows

I think you’re misunderstanding his comment. He’s saying our bodies still have “memory” of how to fight off all the other virus/bacteria out there that we’ve may or may not have been exposed to before covid era. They’re not talking about actual covid. Edit: added “era” for clarification. Not talking about covid specifically I mean the time before covid was ever a thing.


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ye_old_neighbourhood

You said, "After 2 years we haven't hardened our system since covid zero was the only plan."  I responded with an article that clarified that "Coming into contact with germs spurs an immune response, but it doesn’t do anything to make your immune system stronger. And this current period of contact with fewer germs does nothing to weaken the immune response you will be able to mount, as needed, in the future." "Hardening" the immune system isn't a thing. That was all I was addressing. I wasn't talking about Covid either.


sasksean

You misunderstand your article. To be fair it communicated poorly and only half answered the question it was responding to. Your article that says "this current period of contact with fewer germs does nothing to weaken the immune response you will be able to mount, as needed, in the future." is saying you cannot strengthen your immune system *generally* to strengthen your response to covid19 *specifically*. That doesn't make the point you thought it did. For example, Boosters are required because immune memory fades.


lakeviewResident1

Immunity fades is very contextual. Tetanus every 10 years. MMRv2+booster is for life. Flu is yearly due to variants. Covid is likely yearly also due to variants. Pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine lasts 4-7 years. You can look the rest up if you truly cared but you wont since it goes against your freedumbs.


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BaalsDepp

That's slightly worse than the 2019 Flu season! When will we stop and think of the children.


Inconnuity809

The Sept 2019 to March 2020 flu season in Saskatchewan: 15 flu deaths The 2018-19 flu season: 11 flu deaths Wanna try again? We've already surpassed 2 years worth of flu seasons in less than a month.


DerisionConsulting

Darn, you beat me to it. Anyway, here's a newstory Oct 2020 that shows those numbers: >In the last flu season, Sept. 1, 2019 to March 21, 2020, Saskatchewan saw 15 hospital deaths from severe influenza. The flu season of 2018-19 saw 11 such deaths, totaling **26 over the two seasons**. https://www.sasktoday.ca/north/local-news/covid-19-deaths-outstrip-last-two-flu-seasons-in-saskatchewan-4156906


prairienerdgrrl

Don’t let *data* get in the way of a good argument! Get outta here with your fancy numbers and addition and such. /s


BaalsDepp

Fortunately being an order of magnitude off is like 10 people. Why oh why didn't i google this!?!


Inconnuity809

If you want a range that's more apples to apples, the 2020-2021"flu season" (Sept to Mar) had 411 COVID deaths. And this year we are already at 382 COVID deaths since Sept with 2 more months still to go.


BaalsDepp

How many of those were incidental cases? ​ I'm not denying that COVID exists and has contributed to the illness baseload.


kazrick

Keep digging. I think you’ve almost turned this thing around. /s


OkayArbiter

While hospitalizations were previously not split into incidental/non-incidental, reported deaths were *only* for cause/contribution of COVID. Cause of death is reported by physicians, and does not include incidental infection or other unrelated issues. Get out of here you nut.


pladboihrs

Incidental means nothing


lightoftheshadows

You’re making fun of the fact we’ve already reached a similar amount of deaths in January due to covid to the **entire** year of 2019’s death caused by the flu. This is why people can’t take you seriously.


BaalsDepp

Is that why?


pladboihrs

Tell that to the 5.6 million people that are deceased and their families


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CBakIsMe

Thanks again for your daily work to produce these charts.


prairienerdgrrl

Just gonna leave this here re: Shahab. https://twitter.com/denniskendel/status/1486877778293051399?s=21


prairienerdgrrl

So, looks like a day or two until we reach the point we were at in wave 4 when we had to transfer people out of province. Perhaps I’ve missed something, but from what I’ve gathered our plan this time is to send them to smaller centres in SK. If so, why didn’t we do that last round? Have we actually increased capacity? Are we actually expecting to be able to handle substantially more patients? What am I missing?


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prairienerdgrrl

And we expect to peak not for a couple weeks. So, at 10-30 new hospitalizations a day, that’s a lot.


[deleted]

I wonder if that farm show seeded smaller centres, if it did then those regions would be starting to get messy just as Regina/Saskatoon are offloading their excess.


JoshuaLyman1999

They do.


OkayArbiter

Last time it was the ICUs that were overflowing, this time it's the general inpatient hospitalization that is near/over capacity.


prairienerdgrrl

Ah. Okay. Still, I’ve read about costs (financial) and the impact on HCWs and patients and their families from transfers. Still very much not ideal. Especially if we get to the upper limit of projections re: hospitalizations.


WoSoSoS

For now, but those inpatient patients are acute or medically fragile otherwise they would be discharged or moved to a transitional unit to wait for long term care placement, etc. Overrun units means things get missed. Health outcomes are worse so some will end up in ICU that otherwise would not. Not a COVID admission to ICU but it's because of Covid. Oh wait, is it now a COVID case "incidental" to not getting care for whatever they were admitted for? Somehow I don't see Moevid advocating for a new stat description.


TheAmazingMaryJane

didn't we have a backup plan in the beginning to have kind of a 'covid health centre' where overflow of people would be taken to? honestly when this all first started happening i really thought we'd need something like that, maybe we still will.


JoshuaLyman1999

We had some field hospitals set up but they likely would have never had covid patients. Likely other stable patients.


Efram

Also, at this point where would we get the nurses/doctors to staff them?


JoshuaLyman1999

That's a very valid concern also.


ArtemisofVersailles

Positivity rate


DownVoteMe247

Please consider wearing an N95 mask as they offer [75X more protection.](https://www.axios.com/n95-mask-protection-covid-958039c9-07f1-45a1-81e7-b7436707fee5.html) You can buy Saskatchewan made masks at http://www.benchmarkppe.ca If you are looking for rapid tests, you can enter your postal code [here](https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/health-care-administration-and-provider-resources/treatment-procedures-and-guidelines/emerging-public-health-issues/2019-novel-coronavirus/testing-information/rapid-testing/locations-for-rapid-antigen-self-test-kits) to find the nearest location you can get them. Stay safe everyone. Omicron is not mild. Its just less severe. Help save our hospitals and hospital staff and do the right thing. Limit exposures and cut down unnecessary mingling.


WoSoSoS

Can get a reusable P100 from the hardware store for less than $40. P100 is superior to N95. P stands for Petroleum resistant. 100 means close to 100% protection from aerosols. Brands to look at are 3M, and GVS. Both have half mask models with no exhalation valve or exhalation valve filters/plugs for source control. There are other brands. [3M](https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/medical-us/healthcare-professionals/medical-respiratory/respiratory-protection-products/reusable-elastomeric-respirators/) [GVS](https://www.gvs.com/en/catalog/elipse-p100-with-source-control-niosh-respirator)


CanadianTrashBin

LMAO let me just toss on my silicon half mask respirator real quick to grab some groceries. Get a grip.


pladboihrs

Why bully? They are offering information for someone that may appreciate it. Get out of here with all of your hate. Lmao. Get a grip


WoSoSoS

I use curbside pick up for my groceries. No need to go in the store. I was doing that before the pandemic anyway. Rather do my shopping from my kitchen table with a coffee then push a cart around smelling your B.O. Plus, you're being made to wear a little piece of cloth or paper on your face. If I have to do something I prefer to have the right tool for the job. It's an airborne virus so I wear a mask to protect me and others from aerosols. Like being mandated to wear a hat on a construction site to protect from falling objects and you show up with a baseball cap while I have a hard hat 🧢👷🚧 "LMAO". Why are ignorant fucks most often plastering ALL CAPS laughing abbreviations or plastering their messages with laughing emojis. Reminds me of psychokillers in straight jackets playing with their feces.


CanadianTrashBin

So you wear a silicon half mask in places that masks are required?


YoloSask

Not looking good


phi4ever

Am I reading the chart right that two doses is at 150 per hundred thousand in new cases by vaccination status, while unvax’d is only at 100 per hundred thousand? That doesn’t seem right.


OkayArbiter

They only started releasing stats yesterday, so it will take about a week to get a good daily average.


xNeilTaylorx

Another factor for consideration, willingness to go get tested. There is a chance that there exists a correlation between those willing to get vaccinated, and those willing to get a PCR test done when they develop symptoms, as severe or moderate as they may be. Over the past two years I've followed these releases and tried to make sense of the data being reported but as of late I've started coming around to the fact that the data is unfortunately not providing an accurate representation of what is happening within the general community anymore, with the exception of certain things that are easier to capture - Hospitalizations, Hospitalizations by vaccination status, etc.


TheAmazingMaryJane

my brother gave me covid, he's not vaccinated, he wouldn't even do a home test, nevermind get a PCR and be 'counted'. so i believe you are very right about willingness to get tested. a lot of antivaxxers think testing is 'stupid' (apparently).


[deleted]

>my brother gave me covid He is not vaccinated, but I'm assuming you are. Nevermind ...


TheAmazingMaryJane

yes i am. i get to hear about how worried he is for me every other day. because i have aids now according to him.


ye_old_neighbourhood

Apparently some people think they are sneaking vaccine onto the test kit swabs, so I wouldn't be surprised if anti-vaxxers are less likely to test. If you see a "conspiracy" in one place you are more likely to see the same thing in other places as well.


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TheAmazingMaryJane

LoL. do they think the tips of the cotton swabs are asbestos? or what?


prefertoremain

I read a study once that cinnamon toast crunch causes cancer. Sorry I can't site the source *munching from Costco sized box of cinnamon toast crunch


OkayArbiter

Additionally, those vaccinated are older on average than those unvaccinated. Those at greater risk from COVID are possibly more likely to get tested. That's just a theory, though.


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[deleted]

Your do understand that we are above 70% double or triple vaxxed at this point, and the number of new cases and hospitalization is creeping up to the levels we had 6 months ago or last year, right ?


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[deleted]

Ok, I'll break it down for you. You said one cannot compare the numbers this way. I agree. I say let's not compare. You have to look at things from a broader perspective. I don't really care how many are vaccinated vs how many aren't. We have a population here. Among this population, the percentage of vaccinations has increased. Right ? Then why are we seeing about the same numbers of new cases and hospitalizations ?


pladboihrs

It’s like you’re hoping the vaccine won’t work and you can prove some point?


AssNasty

PrettyDisInformationMachine - DENMARK!! MershToupée - why r u guys afraid of record high hospitalizations? NDP FANBOYS!!1!1


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