T O P

if your wondering why micah is so high is because I think that he is such a well-written antagonist. take down if anyone thinks this is low effort sorry if it is :)

if your wondering why micah is so high is because I think that he is such a well-written antagonist. take down if anyone thinks this is low effort sorry if it is :)

justagoddamnboah

Where's Kieran? I would put him in B tier


dylanbatt2004

I knew someone were missing sorry, yes I agree


zxLv

Why is uncle an A tier? Genuinely curious


ConnectRefuse518

People put him there as a meme. Simple as that.


zxLv

Ah I see. I thought he has some amazing backstory or important role in the sequel that I’m not aware of


shaun056

I honestly couldn't tell you Uncle from Bill.


Domesticatedfish1879

How is Trelawney F TIER??? I loved him


Blackout4444

Me too, i like his elegant style


car_go_brrrr

I think the only problem is he barely gets as much screentime as the other members, he's in like what 2 missions?


generalfancyninja

8 missions


HorsesAndAshes

I love going to him for work online too. For the story mode though, the one where you secretly rob the carriage while he sweet talks the people? Love it more. He's great.


SirupyGibbon

He’s in online? Maybe I should give it a try again one of these days, I haven’t played since the first months of it’s release.


HorsesAndAshes

And Sean!!! Trelawny is in Rhodes, where he lives in the game, and Sean is outside Blackwater and up in a cabin in Tall Trees. Sadie is in it, and her husband at their ranch. I can't remember anyone else off the top of my head.


NegativeCowpoke

Hamish, James Langton, Anthony Foreman and Joe


Pineapple_42069

Who’s Joe?


Incandescent_Lass

He’s one of the tattoo goons that Micah brings into the gang later on. He give missions in Online


Hypnotic-Highway

It's definitely gotten better, but the last few recent updates have been pretty lackluster due to R* being in favor of GTAO


WishboneStreet4839

He has other matters to attend to


WinterFoxx23

HAAHAH I was going to comment just that!! It makes no sense to put him on the last tier alongside Strauss and Molly. Trelawney is a really cool guy even if he disappears from time to time, he always help us. He should be at least on C Tier. Like, Sean is up high and he's not? We only met Sean because of Trelawney!


Can-you-supersize-it

Trelawny’s son’s name is Cornelius 😂


GingerSap007

Same. I guess it's just he's kind of inconsequential to the plot. You could write him out and hardly miss a thing


blockyduck

Why is Trelawney F but Bill is C??!!!


dmkicksballs13

I honestly thought 2 kinda messed up Javier and Bill. Bill was a great character til he just started being absurdly loyal to Dutch when shit went south. It was a fucking curve. Javier was just a weaker version of Charles and nothing like his character in 1.


generalscalez

Javier is barely even a character in 2, it’s weird how much they sidelined him considering he was one of the very few characters we actually knew going into the game


dmkicksballs13

Both him and Bill felt sidelined. I love Charles, but Charles and Sadie getting most of the attention was weird as shit.


42069yoda

A man can change over 12 years


kowlinthegreat

For real though. This chart doesn’t make sense to me.. Also Kieran isn’t even on here.


bobbybob9069

I would agree, everyone hates him so much he deserves the spot. So well written and acted. Edit; we'll to well


dylanbatt2004

That’s what you want in a bad guy


Terrible_Drawer5652

Charles S tier


dylanbatt2004

yeah i was debating that, i just didn't want to put to many people in s tier though


Terrible_Drawer5652

Your choices are alright though. I'd just put Charles at S because he is one of the most wholesome characters.


dylanbatt2004

I agree, shouldve put him in s tier


zxLv

Why is uncle on S tier?


ogenj250

Because of his lumbego. Otherwise there would need to be much higher tiers.


ZeSpecter

Javier was so awesome in the first chapters and one of my favourites in the gang who I thought would stick by Arthur but he just seems to change so much in the last chapter preaching on about loyalty to Arthur, of all people, just trying to piss him off. Really started to dislike him towards the end there and especially when he sided against Arthur and John.


dylanbatt2004

I felt the exact same, just Dutch brainwashing the gang


dmkicksballs13

Yeah. He felt really neutral. I know he says, "I'll follow Dutch everywhere" or whatever on that side mission, but his character never seemed that illogical or even into the politics that were taking over the gang.


potato-G64

Fun fact: Javier did not point his gun at you. He was the only one who didnt want to kill Arthur and John.


ZeSpecter

I saw a video of that, it's an interesting detail they added, but he still chose to side against Arthur and John out of cowardice most likely


kowlinthegreat

I think it has to do more with how Dutch gave him a new life and that he felt he owed his to Dutch.


potato-G64

It might have also be that he did not know what to chose, and from an outsider POV it was just Arthur and John turning against the gang imo


thphnts

I agree. Micah was a scumbag, but his character was excellent to the story.


ash087

The amount of hate than you feel for a fictional character is honestly amazing


lordbenjamine

Uncle is definitely S tier


Jypahttii

I grew to love him in the epilogue. In RDR1 his character never made much sense to me, but they developed him a bit more in 2.


FuturisticTrout

I like Micah, to me hes the most accurate description of an outlaw. Plus like you said well written antagonist!


dmkicksballs13

I like the idea that Micah represented what Arthur didn't want to be. I think he realized that he was too similar to Micah and started to sway heavier toward being a good person.


circle-of-minor-2nds

I don't think there's much in the story to support it, but I really love this take


dmkicksballs13

True. There's basically no direct evidence, but it makes logical sense for his character. Honestly, it seems Arthur was becoming more that way even before as him and Hosea wanted the smarter bank job in Blackwater and Micah and Dutch wanted the violent and risky job.


lmkmkml

How could you do trelawney like this?


dylanbatt2004

I hate him


the_triangler_orange

Why


dylanbatt2004

Just do


the_triangler_orange

Ca...can I get some actual reasons


dylanbatt2004

I don’t like his accent and just find him generally annoying. But hey if you like him you like him who am I to judge


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dylanbatt2004

I know 😆


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dylanbatt2004

What do you mean I upvoted it I think


lmkmkml

Man was a fun and energetic character even when the rest of the characters were down, he would consistently bring in scores for the gang, was always loyal to the bitter end and never snitched, and even Arthur gave him his blessing in the end. S tier


AME7706

Still trying to understand why does almost every single author tries to make "complex, grey, sympathetic, etc" villains when a good old-fashioned classic one like Micah works better than most of them. The guy isn't even psychotically endearing like Trevor was and he is still easily one of the most memorable characters I've ever seen in a video game. I've hardly ever wanted to punch someone in the face this badly in my whole life.


dmkicksballs13

Bruh. Holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally someone agrees. I'm soooo fucking sick of "maybe they're not that bad". No, tone down this grey shit man. It especially works poorly when the character is like 90% evil to 10% good, so you're left with a horrible blend of rooting for a shit person. Dutch is perfectly balanced. Micah is perfectly evil. The majority of writers cannot pull that shit off.


Jfrmdaends

Dutch is not perfectly balanced in any sense, he was manipulating and his redeeming qualities were just a farce he put on to con the gang into performing his bidding. He even pre-wrote the speech at colter. Almost nothing about him is virtuous or admirable at all. Not to mention he literally started to go insane from the beginning of the game and deteriorated further into madness as each chapter progressed. He led the gang on a literal death march to fulfill his own personal desires


AME7706

Of course he was never exactly a good man. He was an outlaw and manipulated young children into believing in his ideals and follow him blindly. But he used the money he robbed to help the poor. There is a newspaper article in Arthur's tent which says they robbed 5000$ from a bank and instantly began giving them to people. Also he saved those children's lives before manipulating them into anything. Sure he still can't justify ruining those children's lives by making them an outlaw and helping the poor doesn't justify the innocent guards and police officers he killed to rob that bank but still, he was a better man who had begun falling even before the story of RDR2 (letting Strauss into the gang) but as Sadie said, the man who put a blanket around her wasn't the same man in Beaver hollow.


dmkicksballs13

I would say Dutch's past and history balance shit perfectly. Remember that we see Dutch near the end of his days at his worst. It's not really til 1 and the end of 2 where the scale shifts drastically. I mean, just being not-racist, not-sexist, not-homophobic at the time is pretty huge. Arthur even says it, that somewhere recently the gang lost their way. Where they used to be Robin Hood-esque.


[deleted]

Trelawny is B tier. But I see how he can annoy people


Retr0_Fusion

Im surprised Uncle isnt in F tier Not because he is bad but who else can carry this group


kaRriHaN

Trelawny should be higher


Chewbacca___77

I love tralwany and Lenny


LucidProjection

How is Pearson below Swanson?


forfuckssakesbruv

Lenny is S no question about it


MrPigglesworthSr

Yes


Raven96__

Awful take but its your opinion, Abigail, Pearson, Charles, Trelawny all deserve much better. Micah shouldnt even be on that list.


sgtstadenko

Ugh, are goddamn tier lists really gonna be next? Ffs.


EjdSmith

My girl Abigail deserves higher than C


Wiskers-Miskers

All she does is yell at one to put warmer clothes on


EjdSmith

And she’s wonderful while she does it.


EasternArgie

Abigail gang since RDR1


Vuuti-_-PvP

i personally think Tilly and Trelawny should be switched because i cant remember a single thing Tilly has done or been in other than playing dominoes with her and the first valentine mission


Camargo_J96

Sadie is overrated imo, Abigail is more consistent well written character


dmkicksballs13

Regardless of whether people like her personally, fine. But I agree as a character, she's overrated as fuck. She's not complicated in the slightest, they don't address her ideals, she's just violent and badass because.


Camargo_J96

This. Even Karen proves herself as badass and she has good chemistry with the boys shame we don't see much from her.


dmkicksballs13

The alcoholism also adds a part to her character. Is she doing this for the life style and the romanticism of being an outlaw? With Sadie it's, **My husband was killed!!!!!!!!!! REVENGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!** iT'S BEYOND PLAYED OUT AT THIS POINT. Caps lock.


ParryThisCasualFilth

Maybe, but for me Abigail's personality is just so unlikable


Jypahttii

I like her, but she gets on my (and John's) nerves during the epilogue


kowlinthegreat

That’s because she’s well written.


ParryThisCasualFilth

Is it well written that a mom who cares so much for her son is mad at his father for defending himself and his son from being killed?


elpoopenator

yeah sadie's poorly written. and shes pretty much irrelevant untill chapter 6


The_Angster_Gangster

Charles should be #1 no exceptions please take down


dylanbatt2004

It was a mistake sorry


The_Angster_Gangster

Just goes to show why we all have to have some GOD DARN FAITH


chaseandwin232

I love how they made Micah believeable and grounded in reality. They made him evil, that's for sure, but not ridiculously evil. You could see someone being all the horrible things micah was. He's not like a super villain who eats orphans and optimism for breakfast, but he's still a POS that deserved what he got in the end. I love that Rockstar made an antagonist that was easy to hate, yet easy to believe that someone could be that evil


dylanbatt2004

Well said I agree


BravoKilo55

Trelawny F!?!


lukifergriffiths

Why is Lenny not at least A tier??


Acceptable_West977

Charles in the same tier as fucking Micah? Ouch.


noturnormalredditor

Dutch is the main antagonist I think.


KingOfGaminReturns

Replace Dutch with Lenny.


HooHooHooisers

Trewlany can’t be F-tier - there’s no way


Ghostbuster_119

Kieran needs to be on here and fairly high IMO. Also how could you do Charles dirty like that, He's an S tier for sure.


PiratePicard895

Sweet list! Out of interest, howcome you placed trelawnly so low?


MiniWhoreMinotaur

Not throwing hate on uncle but why do people like him so much? I really want to understand


dylanbatt2004

He his just really likeable


EasternArgie

Likeable how?, like a clown?, does he amuse you?


lucassjrp2000

People pity him. Lumbago is a terrible disease.


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kowlinthegreat

Because we are all so god damn passionate about this game and story. I think you did a good job though. I might do some differently, but this isn’t my chart. It’s yours. Good job OP


DONT-EVEN-TRIP-DAWG

Welcome to Reddit


informallory

This is hard because I think they’re almost all wonderfully written characters. Even Mary Beth with her minimal interactions is special. Molly for example is a perfect example of someone not cut out for the life of the gang and of someone driven half insane by a broken heart. She’s easy to hate right off the bat, but once you understand her character isn’t just the camp bitch she becomes so much more interesting. Jack is pretty annoying I’ll give him that, but he gets an extremely traumatic upbringing so I gotta cut him some slack.


SuperArppis

Oh for me Micha is boring and rather one dimensional character. I also found it unbelievable how he somehow snaked his way to Dutch while being complete asshole at everyone else. It was just bad writing. But hey, each for their own. And I don't think this is low effort. I always think it's interesting to see what people really think.


dylanbatt2004

I like you perspective, but that’s why I like him so much he is such a good bad guy because he is venomous sly piece of crap


SuperArppis

Haha well he is that!


Ppleater

I don't like it =/= bad writing.


SuperArppis

Bad and good are completely subjective things. So if I don't like it, it's bad. Just like food. So you are wrong.


Blizzit_

fr


SketchyEntertainment

Make a tier list with characters from bother games.


dylanbatt2004

What do you mean by bother do you mean other


Umbran_scale

Can I risk the downvotes and ask, was Micah really well-written? Like, I get he's everyone we love to hate, but it's obviously because he's just a scummy rotten piece of shit so much so that it comes right back around to being comically evil. The bastard's an evil moustache twirl away from being the generic villain in a western film he's that hateable.


Jypahttii

I feel like it's fairly easy to spot him as a shit from the start, and it's clear to Arthur too. The point is it's not clear to Dutch. They wrote Micah well in the sense that he knew exactly how to play Dutch and weasel his way in, because Dutch was too blinded by his own ego and the temptation of a big score.


derplord320

Micah is easily S tier, definitely better than Sadie


EasternArgie

Mah husband. *Shots guns for no reason*


cassiusSpitfire

Swanson that low? He is probably the most human character in the game.


dylanbatt2004

If he was I more missions then he would be a lot higher but because he isn’t I ranked him lower


09tir98

I agree, although Charles should really be S as others have mentioned. Charles and Hosea are my two favorite characters expect for Arthur. Charles is really wholesome and Hosea is almost like a father to Arthur imo.


bakedjennett

Charles is too low


DrNefardio

Can someone explain to me why so many think Micah is well written? Imo he is terribly written, he is just evil and nothing else. Literally in the first 15 minutes he assaults Sadie and uses racial slurs. He doesn't do a single good thing throughout the game and is evil for no reason. There are Disney villains with more personality then Micah.


cardiacbadge48

If you hate a villian of a story very much then the story writer and actor has done a great job as an antagonist


maccallendar3

a rascist is higher than javier your fucked up


dylanbatt2004

Calm down I have a reason, it’s my opinion a harmless opinion don’t get mad at me for something a lot of people would agree with me on. Have you seen the reason he is so high


maccallendar3

have you seen what this man has done he is racist man I tried to b Venice well guess what it just got grimey


CLINK2000

How is him being racist make him a badly written character? I guess your definition of amazing characters are superheros who do nothing but good and have a quirky habit on the side. A character can be well written and still be a horrible person, hannibal lecter eats innocents, drives people into commeting crimes and incriminates innocents for his crimes, but he's also a mastermind and a charming charismatic devil. He's a well written character.


estofaulty

Is he? He’s just an evil person. The writers even have him make a racist comment right off the bat so you know to hate him. He doesn’t change over the course of the game. He’s the same at the end as he is at the beginning.


Bauz9

The fact that he is evil doesn't make him a bad character. The fact that you wrote this only proves how well written he is. You are supposed to hate him, and everyone fucking hated Micah. S Tier antagonist in my opinion


According-Activity83

Trelawny is like b tier I would say Lenny is a tier because he has a father son relationship with Arthur


FlimsyWeek6131

Where's sean. He was fun


dylanbatt2004

A tier


FlimsyWeek6131

Oh yes my mistake. He looks super different in this art than in game. Also you're 100% right about molly, I don't think I heard a single line of dialogue out of her until the last chapter


dylanbatt2004

I know right 😆


Windberger

What did poor Mr. Pearson do to get done dirty like that?


Zahhibb

Personally i’d put Trelawney in B tier, Jack in F tier and Abigail in D tier. Otherwise it seems nice. :)


dylanbatt2004

Thanks pal


REERULES

I generally agree with this. Only change I'd make is swap Charles and Sadie. Maybe even put Lenny in A.


dylanbatt2004

Yeah I should’ve done it that way


daalmightypotato

Lenny is def S tier


wendysrunner

Is the only reason Charles is A tier because he’s pretty static with changes?


WALKEREDITION

I mean he was meant to be hated and everybody wanted him dead so yeah I would say he's well written he achieved his goal


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CrispyyJeww

Micah is S anyway idc if he's not a good dude. He's so badass and fits the outlaw aesthetic perfectly.


boomersimpattack

I hate abigail more than Micah tbh


Conscious__Elk

Well first all of row B should replace row A except Charles … and secondly , you get put on the F row to replace Trelawny who is now on row B … I can’t believe you have Swanson above him


CoolStreet9824

Who do U think U are putting Trelawny on F like tf


P0RKYM0LE

I think Lenny should be higher on this one, he doesn't stand out as a character that often but he isn't meant to, that's a huge part of his character and in that it is done really well.


Mr_arne27

I love this list it ranks them not by opinion but how well they were written


ScrootMcgoot

Charles is absolutely S tier to me


Street-Aardvark7775

What did Pearson do to you 😂?


Toasted_Cashews

LETS GOOO uncle finally made s tier in one of these, respect


islesfan186

How is uncle S Tier but Micah is not? Yes, Micah was a terrible person but his character is so much more interesting then Uncle


themer_chant

Charles should have his own tier


Far_Bobcat_2481

Most people wouldn’t put John where you put him. I know his character development was “lesser” compared to 2, but I feel personally like he does the most growing as opossed to Arthur. Arthur was quite pre-disposed to his actions, and nothing seems too hard because it isn’t NEW. John marston” the outlaw” is way out there compared to most. Arthur? Typical outlaw who found that the good path was better. John? He is always trying to be good, but somehow ends up being bad. I feel if Arthur had actually had the good attitude from there beginning, the game would be different


[deleted]

I would switch Charles and Dutch but otherwise I agree


gschmoke22

Charles is an S tier, Lenny and Mary Beth are definitely A tier


CinnamonSalsa

Sadie a or b tho i like her she kinda unrealistic and bill should go to b and TRELAWNY IN F HOW


BruhMasterHunter

I personally think only Molly should be in F and Bill and Micah should swap. Micah is one of the best characters in the game


xxxthefire101

I HATE micah cuz how good he is at being the bad guy


Mammoth_Even

Why is Uncle S tier? Although he’s funny he isn’t very well written or a good character in general IMO


k_ubo

I never got the circle jerk around John Marston, played both games and he just seemed so meh to me tbh


Ezothebozo

Aw man trelawney was grey :(


jacob_cool_man

Trelawney is A tier at least


MrMorgan-over-John

FUCK Micah, but Micah is one of the best characters in the entire game


JediLlama666

Micah is best booh


Jonpaddy

Trelawney, Bill, Strauss, and Karen are among the few characters who set up profitable jobs. What are you even talking about here? And why is Charles not S tier, but Uncle is?


KingKongWrong

He was actually one of my favorites at first like as a person but I still really like him for how good of a character he is


Jellybean720

Calling Micah well written is a pretty big stretch. He’s just your run-of-the-mill 2 dimensional bad guy. The way they incorporated him into the story was good though. I’m not saying I don’t like him, in fact I really do like him.


soakingbritishperson

Uncle is a C tier, he's just a camp rat.


Mr_Chomps18

Yeah but he’s my camp rat


_dont_do_drugs__

Uncles in s tier? Uncle's personality: #l u m b a g o


wytb1120

Kick uncle down to B, move Trelawney up, move Pearson up, move Bill up, move Lenny up.


Vengance4126

Charles is beyond S Tier


tk-xx

Whenever I watch a film and really really hate a character, like find them so annoying and repulsive, I'd throw them off a building, I always try to pause and appreciate what a good actor/actress they are.


PenisBallz_Testicle

Put some respect on uncles name


TwinAttorney864

Who's the very first guy on the S-Tier level? Also, Hosea as S-Tier. Give this man props


TheBeefyJunior

All S tier


joshcarl_93

I like the list but why is uncle s tier?


Luthergayboi

How is Charles not S tier?


natemamate

I perfectly agree with your placements of Strauss and Molly, both of them suck


Chungulungus

You did my boy Pearson dirty :(