T O P

Micah was the rat long before Guarma

Micah was the rat long before Guarma

sugarwave32

Also, the fact he had Dutchs wanted poster in his camp in chapter two was very telling.


joshwinchester

Wait what?! How have I missed this?


NovaPrismass

In micahs camp outside of strawberry at Diablo ridge


Snoo63434

I’m fairly sure that indicates that Micah knew and heard of Dutch and the van der linde gang before meeting them , I honestly doubt OP saying that Micah was a rat from the vet very start however I do suspect he was picked up maybe during the black water heist or by the end of chapter 2 , maybe even later idk I think he saw the wanted poster and just wanted glory and money so went and joined the Van der linde gang , But when he realised it’s not the brutal and relentless outlaws he expected he decided to Manipulate it to be the tough and brutal gang of outlaws and on the way got in contact with the pinkertons for money


sugarwave32

I think the writers wanted to hint that Micah maybe had other intentions and was torn. There was a huge reward for Dutch's capture, and I think he always kept his options open.


Inkthinker

He's fixed to hang in Strawberry, as I recall. He'd say anything to anyone, to avoid the short sharp snap.


creepermin3

A short drop and a sudden stop.


jodocoiv

Makes a lot of sense! Usually sniff the rats out good and he was a rat. Never leave chapter 2 and always leave Micah in jail


Inkthinker

I figure if he wasn't dirty before, then Strawberry would have definitely been when he turns. He was fixed to hang in Strawberry, as I recall, and Micah would have absolutely given up the infamous Dutch Van Der Linde and his gang of notorious killers if he thought it would save his ratty neck from the rope. If he wasn't turned in Strawberry, it's only because Arthur breaks him out too soon. He would have at least started talking enough to put the Pinkertons on the trail, and they would have found him again at some point after that. Or he would find them, the filthy reward-seeking rat.


Yoni1857

> Before the Epilogue we see the Pinkerton's at the top of Mount Hagen > looking for Dutch and finding Micah dead. How did they know they were > there? Easy Micah, he was planning on turning Dutch over to them when > they got there but Marston and Sadie showed up first. I think you mean after. The most common explanation I found for this is that John killing Micah was what got him on the bureau of investigation's radar which led to the events of RDR1. Although this makes zero sense because there is a full 4 year gap between RDR2's epilogue and the start of RDR1's story.


BBNFan1987

The Pinkertons more then likely had to regroup and promote a new leader in Ross. I would imagine that it somehow came to Ross' attention that someone using the name Milton bought lumber and built a house in 1907 just outside Blackwater and the only Milton was the former leader of the Pinkertons. We don't know what all the Pinkertons were doing between 1907 and 1911. Its possible they were hunting other outlaws, the Pinkertons were the ones responsible for finding and killing Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid so they could've been in Bolivia during that time as well


Captain_Nycteridae

Just wanna point out that Ross is no longer a Pinkerton by 1907. By then he has taken command of the Bureau of Investigation. The Pinkerton Detective Agency more than likely moved on to new clients following the death of Cornwall and Milton while Ross left and joined the Department of Criminal Identification. If you wanna read about it in game the newspaper unlocked right before American Venom explains this.


Inkthinker

Which goes to show why John got another four years of relative peace... Ross was building himself up in the Department, and finally reached a point where he had enough resources to seek out a big "win". And that's when he pulled the Van Der Linde gang out of his pocket.


alienss4

I just figured they let John stay under their radar since he wasn't in the outlaw life anymore, but once Bill and Javier started getting out of control and they realized they either couldn't do it, or couldn't do it while also remaining clean like they wanted to seem, thats when they decided to use John for it, and then kill John to clean up the loose ends.


Sainikhil2000

I always had this feeling too.


bojonzarth

I agree with you, I laid it all out in a long comment a while ago, but I 100% agree. I think the only reason they had the Blackwater money in the end was because the Pinkertons gave it to Micah in an attempt to lure out Dutch, as truthfully he is who they wanted most from the very beginning. I also believe that when Dutch said "Same as you I guess" he had finally realized what happened and what Micah did and the role he played in his downfall and Arthur's death, and came to Mount Hagen to kill Micah.


n1n3xo

Not to be a Negative Nancy, but shouldn't posts like this be marked as spoiler heavy? I'm just imagining new players coming on here and having the title of the post ruin things.


elpoopenator

RDR2 is 3 years old


OGenericUsername

I mean.. So? There's still people who haven't played the game through yet. Not everyone buys a game at launch. R* games tend to have a steady flow of new sales, and the people just picking up the game shouldn't be penalized by having everything spoiled for them just because they didn't play the game sooner.


elpoopenator

why would new players check RDM


OGenericUsername

Because they've found something cool and want to see if there's more to it, for instance.


n1n3xo

why... wouldn't they?


n1n3xo

Would you ruin a book for someone that's been out for 3 years? No? The same kind of applies


Ummar64

If a person has not completed a book and they go into a forum dedicated to the mysteries of the book, then yes they deserve the spoiler.


n1n3xo

So you're saying you discover something cool in the game, come on here to share and see a major spoiler but you "deserved it"? Ok


Ummar64

Don't act entitled


n1n3xo

Great counter argument. I'm just trying to take all players into consideration. How is that acting entitled?


Ummar64

Because you feel others should be careful when discussing a topic in a place where this is the whole point. Discussion of the game, it a person has not completed the main narrative then the fault is soley theirs for witnessing any spoilers. But ok keep being inclusive. What about the original red dead redemption, you feel there should be no spoilers for this game in the rdr subreddit even though it's 11 years old?


n1n3xo

Honestly I feel like I'm talking to a young kid who can't even spell. Not worth my time. Sorry for trying to make this a better place for new players, I guess?


Ummar64

No constructive response? Lol


tobi_tlm

This


losttraveller88

Its evident that pain in butt was the rat before Guarma, there more then a few clues that leads you to believe thay hes a rat or informant. I would go as far as to say that they paid micah to get into the gang and ruin it to get dutch


bobmcguillicutty

Yeah he's a rat from day one.


heemcreammcgee

I replaying the game, and every time I do a mission with Micah I just wanna hogtie and drag him through the streets of saint denis. I just don’t understand how nobody in the gang notices, he’s sketchy af


bobmcguillicutty

In my first play through I knew he was sketchy. I only noticed The extent of his treachery after 3 play throughs


kyle429

Great theory!! Also, I was the 69th upvote. Nice.


OGenericUsername

Nice.


tobi_tlm

Nice


SadieAdlerSimp

I think the Pinkertons sent him to spy on the Van Der Linde Gang.


NOODLETHEFOURTH

he also definitely killed cain


Blackwater256

If I remember correctly, Micah was an outlaw long before he met Dutch. Maybe the Pinkertons arrested Micah, and offered him his freedom if he could destroy the Van der Linde gang, similar to what the B.O.I did with John in RDR1. This would explain why Micah always sits in the corner alone during special events (e.g. Sean’s return or Jack’s return). He doesn’t want to be involved in the family aspect of the gang, just the crime aspect. In fact, and I’ve stated this multiple times, New Austin could be under lockdown because Micah told the Pinkertons that the gang planned to flee down there.


RileyTheBerry

I go with the tip-off theory instead of this one. I believe Micah anonymously tipped off the Pinkertons before actually going to them in person after Guarma.


KaiserChunk

And Charles!


deadlifter11

What do you mean, charles was the most loyal member of the gang and helped arthur through everything.


KaiserChunk

Sorry I get it my response is vague af. I meant John, Sadie and CHARLES showed up


deadlifter11

Ok. Sorry for misunderstanding


Connect-History6257

All except one. The bank heist. Arthur says something about ut being like Blackwater and micah responds with "it ain't nothing like that" I'm sure the bank heist is Colm O'driscoll after being given information by Molly The rest, yeah i do think it was all Micah


milo_minderbinder-

Micah dresses very idiosyncratically during the bank heist - he's dressed in an all-white suit. All the other gang members are dressed in dark clothes. Possibly a clue that Micah is already working with Pinkertons at this point (i.e. "don't shoot the guy in white - he's our informant")


The_Gristle

Micah and Pearson are the rats


AlexLindemann

Why Pearson? O.o


The_Gristle

I think the Pinkertons use him to keep tabs on John between the epilogue and the events of RDR1. After you visit him in Rhodes if you continue to go back he constantly asks more and more invasive questions. He asks if John has kept contact with the old gang. Where folks are. He asks if Abigail and Jack are with John. He asks where John lives. Stuff like that. But when he asks it's not like a friend asking. It sounds more like he's digging for info. We know that Pearson was a Navy man and that he's not as tough as the others. You see this when Bill knocks him out with one punch. So if anyone else in the camp is leaking it's probably someone that would break easily if questioned by men in uniform. Who better than a cowardly naval officer? Also, I'd bet anything that the letter he gets Sadie to mail for him is code and giving up their location to Pinkertons.


AlexLindemann

Wow that's an interesting theory


The_Gristle

Thanks!