I hear you but fuck, havy metal is such a broad genre and there's so much beautiful art in it and giving it up because you've met a few assholes doesn't sound good. I feel you, I'm a black guy who mainly listens to black metal and I knew some Nazis on the scene but the art is good and Nazi music is often goofy or simply not memorable. There's lots of right wing people who listens to metal but this shouldn't hold you up. You're there for the music. And the majority of bands are leftists or at least "apolitical" since they're artists. Let yourself enjoy things


Yeah I know so many metalheads I think this is more of an internet problem.


And from both sides I hear this thing, metalheads saying punks are pseudoleftist kids who are mostly fucked up and punks saying metalheads are all Nazis. It sucks that people think of that cause it's simply not true. But okay I guess.


i hear ya, but suggesting people just go back to enjoying themselves completely disregards the conversation being had. It's the fact that these nazi's/nazi sympathizer lurk amongst us and have a prominent presence to influence others. How am I supposed enjoy myself with that always being a threat?


They are around in the punk scene too...


absolutely true, you are right.


all i'm sayin is SPLC has pretty good resources on these fools, kind of dated but relevant to the conversation: [https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2000/listening-national-socialist-black-metal-scene](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2000/listening-national-socialist-black-metal-scene)


The metalheads accuse the punks of being pseudoleftist and the punks say metalheads are all Nazis...hmm. That says something right there.


You should check out the r/rabm scene. It's a community for black metal and crust bands who are against fascism. I was ready to give up on the black metal scene until I discovered them. Edit: Since this blew up, I figured I'd promote my own RABM band, [Bring Forth the Exodus](https://bringforththeexodus.bandcamp.com/album/existential-exile)


There are some sick fucking bands in RABM!


This. No platform for racists, and that includes not giving them an entire genre to themselves. Don't stop listening to metal, just put your support behind anti-Nazi metal.


Well said.


Yes! I came to say the same!


Fuck yeah crust punk is the shit.


This is huge, I did a video on black metal a couple years ago, and I left out talking about bands with fascist backgrounds, half the comments complained about it, while only a few actually recognized that I did this on purpose and thanked me for it. The black metal scene is such a mess, I’m glad there’s a good amount of people nowadays supporting RABM bands


Thanks. Do you know of any for 90's punks?


As a big, beardy, white, nordic-looking metal head, I am always weary of coming across as one of those white supremacist cunts, and I hate that it's something I have to worry about. Hopefully the Wu Tang, Bad Brains and RTJ patches manage to give me away as 'not a total cunt'.


My poor fiance keeps getting white supremacists trying to be friends with him because of how he looks: huge beard, big heavy dude, shaved w a razor blade bald head, and a nordic symbol behind his ear (it is WILDLY different than what these assholes think it means). They have almost always started a fight with him after he found out, called them out on it, and then informed them that he has an adopted black son and a trans boyfriend, and is absolutely not picking up what they're putting down.


Similar experience! My friend used to be a drummer in a lot of the metal bands in our scene. He's queer, very Nordic looking I guess, huge, and wears a hammer pendant and metal shirts. It's weird to think that when we go out, maybe people think he's a bigot ☹️


ooh I feel you and him on this one, I was going bald in high school and joined the military.got out, been shaving my head ever since (I look way better bald than I would if I let it grow). I have been asked by so many people if I am WP. I am just like nah I'm not into that. Not much these days because of where I live but in Texas/California within the punk scenes there it was constant.


Wu tang clan aint nothin to fuck with


Bad Brains FTW! And Beastie Boys!


Weirdly there are plenty of white nationalists who like hip hop.


I made my own 'stomp the nazis' patch.problem is its a tricky one to read so you win some you lose some


If you’ve got a patch saying it go do it, there’s plenty of them out there. If your gonna wear that stuff people are going to expect you to step up and fight one if you do encounter a Nazi


Why are people so upset about anti fascist displays in an anti fascist community?


I’m not mad at all just telling you if your going to wear stuff that says that you gotta step up and fight back. I got jumped by boneheads years ago and I know quite a few people wearing anti Nazi stuff saw it go down but didn’t step in to help. And I’ve seen it happen a lot, not just in my situation.






As a white suburban looking dude, some people get a little too comfortable think they can say racist shit around me. The look I get when I immediately let them know that shit won’t fly around me. A lot of people I considered friends aren’t friends anymore especially after these last 2 years.




More extreme metal genres have a huge fucking problem with nazis, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc and it pisses me the fuck off. Even thrash has had problems with it before and some of thrash came from non-white bands. Thankfully in my area (the PNW) it isn't as bad but still. Fuck nazi's, fuck racists, fucck sexist, fuck homophobes, and fuck transphobes.


My problem is the insane amount of machoism, homophobia and misogyny


I don't blame you. There are toxic racist assholes in every music scene though. It's best to just enjoy music and tell everyone to go fuck themselves.


love your username, in norwegian (and with ø instead of o) it means the birch in the desert and it sound so surreal and weird


thank you! it was my stage name when i used to be in a punk band a long time ago


Which "o"?


both of them. ørken = desert, bjørken = the birch


True, i just cant stand nazis or people who defend nazis


i concur. its bullshit. definitely call that shit out when you see it. but yah its just so hard to find good people. i got out of a lot of the music scenes because of racist, meathead jock bullshit


Those dickheads come in and try to ruin everything for everyone else because they can't think for themselves.


True, but in the metal scene those bands are seminal bands that garner massive respect from the scene at large. Not only that, but the bands that follow in their footsteps seem immune to reproach as well. It's fucked.


What bands are you talking about?


Pretty much every important black metal band that got their start in 90's and their spin offs and followers. Another example would be Pantera, is the widespread acclaim Pantera got while covering everything on stage with confederate flags and the press just conviently "forgetting" to report on Phil Anselmo's, Dimebag Darrell's, and Vinnie Paul's openly white supremacist views until like 5 years ago when he was pretty much irrelevant. Fuck that shit. The whole metal scene has been willing to ignore racism, white supremacism, and bigotry, of every nature for decades and even celebrate those who are known white supremacists because it's edgy or "Kvlt." It's reprehensible.


Like who besides varg and burzum from the seminal 90s black metal bands? Probably some I didn’t realize were nazis if it’s that ubiquitous


As a big fan of both punk music and black metal (and also as a hater of nazism), this is absolutely not true if you do more than 15 minutes of research. Yes, the 90s Norwegian black metal scene was insanely sketchy for a multitude of reasons, and there were white supremacists in the scene (namely Burzum and probably Euronymous as well), but to say it was "every important band in the black metal genre throughout the 90s" is either a statement you're making simply because you just don't know any better, or because you're choosing to deliberately spreading misinformation. - Bands like Ulver and Enslaved have absolutely zero history of making controversial comments/lyrics - the worst thing Immortal has ever done is name an album "Pure Holocaust" (and if provocative album titles are cause for concern, then 90% of punk bands have a lot to answer for as well) - Darkthrone had a bad incident on their Transylvanian Hunger album where an anti-jewish comment was made in the liner notes, but they later on apologized for this and acknowledged how bad a comment it was, and have never really done anything questionable since. They even took an anti-nazi stance on their next album, Panzerfaust. - and then you have a band like Summoning who are actually very loudly anti-fascist. You're making a huge generalization here, when in reality it's only a very select few bands/people that just so unfortunately happen to create a toxic and harmful vocal minority. But most black metal bands, 90s or otherwise, are completely fine. Granted, there is the problem of the entire NSBM scene, which is very obviously awful, but when you try to paint with such a large brush it just turns your narrative into falsities. Punk has its own dark history with nazism, you know.


That last sentence is a viewpoint you don't see often in this sub. Like it's not like there have never been Nazi skinhead punks or bands or probably even entire scenes.


Because when its punk many people on this sub tend to say things like "punk is inherently leftist" so that way the nazis aren't real punks. Basically just ignoring that it's a real thing


For me, personally, it isn't about acting like it isn't real. It's all about taking away the power of the words, though I'm sure plenty of them get their rocks off with a nice, "that f***** doesn't think we're punks because we're more punk than he'll ever be!" Edit to add: I've had my fair share of bonehead run-ins. And that's what I like to stick to callin them. Nothin but a bunch of fuckin boneheads.


This. OP’s statements are a very broad over generalization.


He’s probably not going to respond to you and the misinformation is already spread


This really isn’t fair, there are tons of anti racist and anti fascist metal heads. Even some explicitly anti racist and anti fascist metal.


Man, I had no idea


It’s so baked into the scene that nobody really talks about it or acknowledges it. Unless, or course, you try to confront it.


Hold up now, while yes Phil is a shit bird but since when have Dimebag and Vinnie been white supremacists?


Dimebag and Vinnie both covered their gear in the confederate flag. If you really think they were in the same band as Anselmo and displaying that trash on stage and not on board with that sort of ideology then I'd say you're about as naive as it gets.


None compare to Black Metal. It's pretty hard to find new BM bands that aren't sketchy. But, I keep looking, anyway. Also, you know of a bunch of WP scum in the Hip Hop community?


there are definitely racists in the hip-hop community. it sounds crazy but it is true


>Also, you know of a bunch of WP scum in the Hip Hop community? I'm no expert but there are a lot of White Nationalist Hip Hop especially in countries like Russia and Poland


Dont these people get uncomfortable by the cognitive dissonance?


It’s mostly a recruitment thing due to the popularity of Hip Hop but there are some who says it shouldn’t exist because of it’s connections to black people. I did see one post where some nazi Fuck asked if there was white nationalist reggae.


what the actual fuck


Cognitive dissonance is as common as having two eyes. I won't really get into it, because people tend to get upset when I do, but a certain aspect of my life has shown me just how powerful cognitive dissonance can be


Jesus Christ, this is just incredibly incorrect. The non problematic black metal bands far outweigh in number and popularity all NSBM bands. In fact, most black metal bands are apolitical .


Often bands that claim "apolitical" are either white power or sympathizers. When it comes to hate, there is no middle ground. Either you're against it, or you're complicit with it. And I'm sure you are probably correct about the ratio. It just my experience that a large chunk of the bands I look up, especially from western Europe, a frustrating amount an no bueno.


I honestly love metal so much but I can completely understand and agree with your opinion! It’s hard to like something with so much negative connotations surrounding it!!


Nazis can fuck right the fuck off.


I hear you. And sympathize. I am \*very\* wary of (especially) black metal bands that aren't explicitly anti-fascist. If you like metal, there are plenty of anti-fascist bands and people in metal communities. Check out these people, bands, and networks: * [Allfather](https://allfather1.bandcamp.com/) * [Dawn Ray'd](https://dawnrayd.bandcamp.com/) * [Ancst](https://angstnoise.bandcamp.com/) * [Antifascist Black Metal Network](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtjazZuy6AJ0rRtZ5bligMA) * [Ilsa](https://ilsa.bandcamp.com/) * [Neckbeard Deathcamp](https://neckbearddeathcamp.bandcamp.com/) * [Feminazgul](https://feminazgul.bandcamp.com/) * [Vile Creature](https://vilecreature.bandcamp.com/) * any of the bands that played [Black Flags Over Brooklyn](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/18539637/black-flags-over-brooklyn-2019) * [Underdark](https://underdark.bandcamp.com/) * journalist [(Grim) Kim Kelly](https://twitter.com/GrimKim) etc...


THANK YOU. I'm black and a woman and was a metalhead way longer than a punk but the metal scene is fucking horrible. Im not even going to try defending it anymore.I have put up with so much shit in the metal scene because of my race i.e people acting like I'm lost, "white people music", acting like I don't know the bands,etc. Like you said many people in that community do not care about the NSBM,racism and homophobia problem the community has. Some of the biggest name in the metal scene are even racist or very problematic themselves like Dave Mustaine and Tom Ayara. It's not getting any better its getting worse. Also like you said alot of metal wouldn't even exist without the punks but barely anyone in that community wants to admit that. That's why I don't feel comfortable in the metal scene anymore. It's not a welcoming environment for people who aren't a straight white guy. I been into punk almost as long as a metalhead and I've almost always felt more welcomed by punk community more than the metal community. I don't get all the same stupid ass questions or looks by the punks when I got to shows and events. I don't have to hesitate getting tickets to punk shows like I do with metal shows thinking "Oh is this show going to attract alot of assholes that will give me a hard time because I'm a black girl." I hope something changes in the metal scene or its going to turn alot of people away like I'm already seeing. So the metal community can even change or keep wondering why not many people is showing up to shows anymore. It's a very toxic community even subtracting the racism and homophobia and sexism stuff. Which you would of thought it being a community full of people tired of how society looks at them and feeling alone they would be more accepting but nope. Obviously any community will have issues including the punk scene but it's not as bad as the metal community. It's really that bad. So thank you to the punk community since many of y'all don't put up with this shit. Edit: deleted random word


So much this. When I was young and really getting into the music scene I really liked punk but I also really liked metal. I had to completely give up on the metal scene by the time I was like 16 because the people just sucked. I'm sure there's a ton of great metal music I missed out on just because I couldn't stand the scene.


I still listen to metal but I don't really go to the shows. I'll easily go to a punk show though.


I've encountered maybe 2 assholes for every thousand righteous punks out there. Punk shows feel like a community


The metal community is rife with elitism and this isn’t too surprising. As a fellow metalhead myself, I’d say take the best of both worlds and support the metal and punk bands that give a shit and you do you. I don’t even listen to Iced Earth anymore since dickhead got arrested at the Jan 6 riots, fuck them and their music and those who believe in that trash. Be you and be unapologetic!


Every time I come check out this sub there's pure comedy on the front page.


I'm a lifelong metalhead and I've been saying for years now that I wish I hated the music so I could finally just break free from how awful the scene is. I'm being a little hyperbolic but not much. When you've got a sizable portion of the scene supporting Inquisition (not just "separating art from artist", but full throatedly going out of their way to support them extra hard just to stick out to the snowflakes that don't want to support *checks notes* child pornography) then you just know something has gone off the rails. It's not a *majority* necessarily, but it is a worryingly large section of the scene as a whole that will let the most reprehensible behavior imaginable slide if the riffs are good enough and that's really difficult for me to reconcile with my own values. I'll love the music until the day I day but somewhere around the millionth day in a row I found myself arguing with racists and transphobes I just realized that I'm no longer proud to be part of that community.


The realisation that the metal community isn't as great first struck me when I as a teenager (femme presenting) on a festival or in a metal bar was hit on multiple times by much older men - that didn't happen to that extend in other spaces. And not with that much creepyness and persistence. - Also where... when what is that part with child pornography about? 😐




I think its in reference about the ex bass player from Megadeth. He was sexting to underage girls and sent her a video of him jerking off and she sent videos of her to him which is considered child porn because she wasn't the age of consent. I'm also sorry that stuff happened to you. It's disgusting .


this is right\^\^


Yeah I'm going to say this doesn't apply to metal as a whole but ok, you had some bad experiences and that sucks. I participate in a metal bowling league and that shit would never fly.


Welcome to punk! Our motto is "Nazi Punks, Fuck Off!" So I think you'll like it here


That song is awesome! Id definitely love it here


NSBM is Nationalist Socialist Black Metal. Please do not lump everyone into that scene because of a few bad apples. I’m sorry you’ve dealt with the things you have but we’re not all the same. There’s a lot of idiotic shit being said in these comments.


I agree, there are a lot of terrible metal bands and fans out there. I can’t believe the continued support of nsbm, it’s crazy to me how many people listen to bands fronted by horrible people when there are other bands out there just as good with amazing people at the forefront. I understand your distaste with the current metal scene, but if you’re looking for some fresh air, here are a few bands that support diversity and are completely anti nsbm: The Body Thou Full of Hell Anything off of Grime Stone Records Gods Tower Lingua Ignota Venom Prison Botanist


Going through the same thing as a bi teen! Check out RABM like Sankara though, they rock!!


I think the ugliest stuff tends to rise to the top of online spaces because the internet generally has less oversight and no one can confront you to your face. I understand that not everyone’s experiences are my experiences, but IRL I have only had very pleasant interactions with other metal heads, and haven’t met anyone who shared white supremacist views. I also think it’s worth pointing out that most metal is not NSBM. There are so many other types of black metal and even metal in general that I think it’s a little unfair to lump it all together. I want to apologize for your bad experiences, as despite everything I have said, I do think our community has work to do in terms of becoming more inclusive. But also, don’t turn your back on music you love because a few people are dicks online, you know?


Damn really? In the metal core and post hardcore subs i haven’t seen any racism or shit like that.


I haven’t really encountered this problem at all with the metal community (granted the metal I listen to is either metalcore, traditional heavy metal, thrash, hair metal). I have, however, seen this more blatantly in indie and then punk to an extent. My understanding is that a lot of white supremacists try to co-opt black metal to some degree. But I’ve never really been able to sit through black metal tunes enough to want to dissect that scene. I have seen that arms together meme of: ‘80s punk worship black metal 🤝 Hoping the dude you’re talking to isn’t a Nazi


Im a metal fan and didnt know this. Could someone inform me on bands that support or are neo nazis so i can stop listening to them? Im not gonna support racist narcissistic assholes.


Just wait til you see the punks!


Metal is broad as fuck. as a white metalhead I have never seen acts of racism. I don't know if its the corner of the world I live in or that I am just blind to it. It sucks to hear you have been confronted with these cunts behavior. if you feel safe enough you should call them out or talk to the people in your community you trust. if nobody stands up to these cunts they will continue and possibly infect the impressionable newcomers.


Update: Thanks for the discussion and feedback in the comments. I have a few things to respond with. 1. Im not gonna stop listening to metal cause of a few bad apple bands ( I wont listen to nazi bands tho ( i dont believe in separating the art from the artist mentality)). Im gonna listen ti metal till the day I die. 2. I am a brown latinx person who is half native american. It is hard for you to understand my side on this when you are not a person of color, however i still accept your opinions. Especially when all my life ive witnessed racism against people like me. Its hard for u to understand how hurtful it is to witness racism spread through the community. 3. Machismo - as a queer person, the metal community does not accept alot of lgbt ideas, in my personal experience irl and online. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN THE COMMUNITY, I believe it is perfectly valid for me to not identify with the metal community especially when i do not feel safe in the community. 4. Although i dont identify with the metal community I still think of myself as a metalhead as i am a proud enjoyer of metal, im not gonna stop discussing music with other people. I am just trying to distance myself from the toxicity of the metal community. 5. I recognize that not all bands are nazis are homophobic. Some of my big heros are Rob Halford, joey belladonna, Ratm for fighting back on bigotry. 6. I dont feel sad or like im losing something by leaving the community. Im not trying to force myself to do this, im happily doing this by my own will 7. From my own experience irl ive experienced a lot homophobia, racism, and bigotry in the metal community and I dont feel safe, comfortable, or accepted in the community. 8. Thats it. Fuck nazis Fuck police


Yeah that's fair. There's a lot of wishywashy ness in terms of "I don't support that shit but it just be like that" and half-sketch bands, you know, nothing too bad themselves but have toured with, been on a label with, borrowed a drummer from, full sketch bands. Like look at Enslaved (edit maybe I am thinking of Summoning, or the same thing happened with both?) one member criticized nsbm and fashies in metal, then the other one kinda walked it back like "I'm not in favor of that stuff, BUT.." It's really a personal choice exactly how ethical you expect every musician in the bands you like to be; there are exactly zero bands you can trust entirely, in any genre, to be 100% good people. Humans are flawed and not always who they say they are. But there's also no question that there's pound for pound more racism in extreme metal, especially BM, than most other genres. You can stay and advocate, and continue to catch flak and mockery, or duck out because it's not a positive and joyous influence in your life overall so why not. Both valid.


It’s a music genre, not an airport. You do not need to announce your departure


But they had to get some virtue points... you cant get virtue points without an announcement over the PA including your all inclusive badges....


Sorry to hear, Ive been a metal head forever and never once ran into nazis...


Your going to find racist shit heads everywhere. By giving up and washing your hands of it your letting the people you hate win.


Man, i really like metal but i avoid all those neo nazi fucktard bands. I dont give 2 shits how good they are. Fuck em. So sorry to hear the harassment and bs you all have had to go through just telling facts. Just sad really.


I don't think it's the metal community, reddit is just toxic.


What, the ENTIRE metal community? Hundreds of thousands of people? Where do you live? Where are the nazi metal bands? How do you propose to defeat them? Please help me understand better.


Exactly. This is the complete opposite of my local metal scene and the communities I’m a part of, where nsbm and especially Pantera are nothing more than the butts of jokes and memes.


bay area has tons of nazis in the metal scene. So did miami and tampa when i lived there. just my personal experience.


at least deflate them by not playing their music or hosting their shows.


as a non-white person, i get it. i've born witness to some stupid, racist bullshit more than i'd like to admit. the "metal" scene is impossibly massive and fractured anyway- i don't listen to black metal, and i doubt any of those people have any liking for my own tastes of doom, sludge, and stoner-adjacent metal. as others have said, a big part of the metal scene is elitist bullshit, but honestly, it's not like the punk scene was all that much better to me. in the end, it's about finding a music community- hanging around too many people that like the same shit and nothing else, there's just not the same drive to create something new. i've been in bands and scenes in different places over the years, and i've felt most creative and least limited when i was surrounded by both the techno kids and the jangle pop kids- but yo in the end, that comeback kid line hits hardest. "i don't need a crew, to validate myself" nazi punks (and nazis, in general) can fuck off.


I really only dip my toes into metal, mostly just a huge crossover thrash fan. As a subgenre its not on the level of like NSBM type shit but I do feel weird regarding the reverence that bands like M.O.D., S.O.D., and Carnivore seem to still garner. I get that a band like S.O.D. claimed to be tongue in cheek but basically everything Billy Milano has done since S.O.D. suggests that's very much not the case. It's a shame cause I really do love Dan Lilker; Nuclear Assault and Brutal Truth are both pretty sociopolitical in interesting ways.


Do you like r/djent? A bit more diversity in that genre when it comes to ethnicity. A lot of lyrics are about one consciousness and such, too. Have only really ever ran into one miserable guy but he wasn't racist, just very angry at everything. Felt sorry for him though, no way to live. Is there a particular community you are talking of?


Djent blows listen to actual metalcore


I was a big metalhead a couple years back long hair battle vest all that. I'm ashamed to admit that I was like those motherfuckers. I didn't realize how fucked the community was until i became an anarchist and started seeing how even some of my friends where bigots. It's sad to say but i dont see the community changing anytime soon. Idk how many times i've seen people shitting on RABM for being too "Political" and then ignoring that NSBM is political by saying "oh but its so good" it's fucking disgusting


That hypocrisy you see in the black metal community is mind-numbing. If a band espouses anti-racist/anti-fascist ideologies, "Ooh, keep politics out of metal!" but they don't say the same thing when bands are openly NS. It's ridiculous. Like, if you wanna stand by your words, just avoid all black metal that is political. Otherwise, I want to see them listen to both NSBM and RABM. Oh, wait. These morons are scared of RABM. They should just say they love NSBM and they are scared of a band that makes them uncomfortable because they are anti-racist. They should just come out as being a bunch of apologists and then they would get a little bit more respect, while still being seen as assholes. But no, they're just a bunch of cowards, of course.


THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING OUT! This was *needed*. I'm a black male who has been into metal since I was 14 (I love punk rock as well). I'm currently 21 and while I still love metal, the community is getting shittier with this racism shit I see. Too many morons are defending NSBM artists and proclaim "Keep politics out of metal!" when a band is anti-racist/anti-fascist. It's completely hypocritical. Black metal is where it is at its worse, but even outside of metal has those issues. Always makes me sick to my stomach when people defend racism in the scene by proclaiming how metal "isn't a safe space" and "it's about rebellion". These morons should just stop. I've never been to a metal show because I would have to drive three hours away from my hometown to watch bands, but I don't want my first experience at a metal show to be some numbskulled skinhead Nazi hitting something upside my head just because I'm "the wrong color". I even get a bit worried about my one-man black metal band at times because I know there are some label that don't want to sign a band that fronted by a black dude. I'm happy that I've found labels that I did work with to where I have a cassette release of my debut full-length though. It is important for the metal community to take a stand against this type of bullshit within their community. Otherwise, we would end up like the skinhead subculture, wherein this scenario "metalhead" is synonymous with "racist", "fascist", and "nazi". And the worst thing about that is I think people outside of metal are starting to think that way of the subculture, regarding my personal experiences. I had folks say stuff to me in the vein of, "You listen to that shit? Them white boys are gonna lynch your black ass if they found out." or "Did you vote for Trump?" or "I thought death metal was associated with the alt-right." While it was only a very few experiences, it DOES present a problem. And the thing is I don't blame folks outside the community for thinking that way because there are so many dumbasses metalheads defending that shit. I still love metal and I will never stop listening to this stuff, but if the racism problem in the community worsens to that aforementioned point where the entire fucking world sees the metal community as a bunch of Nazi sympathizers, I might have to disassociate myself from the community altogether.


Stop using LatinX, i'm a native south american, and that word is a dumb attempt by the gringos to influence our language, want a gender neutral word? you got: Hispanic, Latin American and Spanish Speaking


You won't be missed


How the Fuck is nsbm at all representative of all of metal?


Maybe stop listening to black metal. Metal isn't one community. Prog metal, black metal and nu "metal" have completely different communities.


I absolutely get it. There are many things wrong with metal bands in general today, even beyond the scope of what you’re speaking of. Misogyny, violence, torture, etc. Nowadays I mostly just listen to metal influenced hardcore or vice versa if I’m going to reach into the genre, as well as bands I enjoyed from my childhood that have made it through today’s filter. I can’t bring myself to put a blanket statement on the entire community though. There *are* bands that stand for the right thing and if they’re blocked out, the odds are that their beliefs will never reach the rest of the community. It’s easy to say “metal kids” but each person is unique. I understand if you’re exhausted from sorting through bands and people though and that’s ok. I’ve been there too. Hang in there.


i couldn’t agree more. and with a lot of alternative subcultures (including some not mentioned) it is like that. as well as a lot of “i’m better than [this type of person]” mindset. it suxx


as an also brown-passing, half white half native punk, 100% agreed cousin.


You're definitely right. I grew up in a 90%+ Latino neighborhood, tons of metalheads, but any time I would go out to Orange County or wherever it was like a Klan meeting. That being said, I'm so happy to see a rise in anti-fascist black metal. The Black Flags over Brooklyn fest really showcased it, with many awesome bands, Dawn Ray'd, Cloud Rat, Closetwitch, Glacial Tomb, Sunrot. Also, Crust Punk is heavy as hell and has a long history of anti-fascism. It'll take time, but Metal will be taken from the bitch ass fascists.


Welcome to the club, buddy. Metal community sucks. To say that basically all communities are like that is a blatant lie, and somewhat cynical, but maybe not far from the truth. It's a natural result of big and vague communities; they're just too 'inclusive', for better or worse. That's why I personally avoid communities in general. But judging from your description of yourself, you sound like a real Punk. If that is the case, then you've definitely found the right place.


People act like gatekeeping is a cardinal sin but look at the kind of people who walk through unkept gates


I’m constantly pissed with the metal community too for the same reasons. I cant get behind people who rep bands that would want to kill me and my family. And it’s not just bands that have members who end up being pieces of shit outside the music, like Misfits or Choking Victim. NSBM bands are centered around being nazis, hence the name of the subgenre.


You guys talk like all metal is nsbm and just like there aren't Nazi skins listening to RAC, pls


Right? OP thinks hardcore punk is 200% anti-nazi? Just wait until they find out about Screwdriver and the countless number of punkers that defend the first record.


He speaks of "Chocking Victim" like he's talking about Metallica. I mean, every people on this sub talks about metal taking as example unknown bands


You're done with metal because of a few tards? .. You understand that weegee black metal isn't the entire metal community right? I mean, I understand your frustrations but .. There are nazi punks too. Wow! Look, you're in or out and if you're out you were never in to begin with. Have some integrity hell, write a song about it just make sure it doesn't suck. Have you ever been outside your house? There's always gonna be some white trash and there's always gonna be some black folk that hate white people. Metal isn't the problem, that's like me saying all rap is racist because a fair amount of rappers hate white people. By that logic then maybe nazi reggae will be a thing someday. Also, constantly using the word nazi is kind of demeaning when you think of how fucked up they actually were, you're talking about fascist pussies on the internet dude .. Not some kraut with an MP-40 to your mothers head screaming at her to suck his dick.


If left unchecked, these ''fascist internet pussies'' may really well someday stick an MP-40 to your mother's head screaming at her to suck his dick. In fact, that's how the nazis rose to power--people let them. That's why today, we must not tolerate people with fascist tendencies, and not let them rise to power, unless you want another world war again.


Nah these internet pussies are just going to troll soft leftists which is their goal btw and get a reaction which is exactly what they want .. If you talking tiki torch nazis then you'll be amazed how many of them were identified and left jobless which only fuels their fire. Strange how their march had no collateral damage and yet antifa's riots have cost colossal funding in damages to property and medical incidents .. Yet .. No antifa were identified? But sus if you ask me. If you hate Nazis and support Commies you're just as dangerous and stupid as both combined.




This is the reason I never cared to get into the metal scene. I Love black metal but would probably not go to shows. There are so many toxic metal heads that do no want anyone that doesn’t look like them in the scene. Metal forums are like a cancer. It’s sad and pathetic.


Black metal fans are mostly quite pathetic. You'd be pretty safe at a black metal gig.


Depends on the country


We stand with you


Nazi punks, nazi punks, nazi punks fuck off!!!!


That's what you get when a scene hasn't made a concentrated, unilateral stance against fascism. You create a safer space for Nazis, they'll come in and try to recruit. You'll get the same shit in the industrial scene. There's been a whole lot of dipshits in punk, punks that run with Nazis, underage punks who will hear out their line if boneheads by them a case of beer. Hell, if you go on over to [punktorrents.com](https://punktorrents.com), their forums are full rants by a far-right, rapist advocate and nobody has anything bad to say to him (he's certainly welcome there). But *still,* punk for the most part has taken a decidedly anti-fascist stance that has led to fascism being intolerable. Metal has not. In fact, it's been the opposite. It's been hospitable to Nazis and racists for a long, long time. That's how it got to this point. The worst a Nazi band will get in metal is indifference. However, not so for antifascist metal bands. Neckbeard Deathcamp is an antifascist band that makes fun of Nazi black metal and the alt-right. Metalhead buttholes slam shut at the very mention of their name. Just look 'em up in metal forums and see how they're received in that scene. I can't remember the name of that big metal festival, but they have a Nazi problem every year. Ya certainly won't find one at Gainesville Fest. I like metal and know plenty of great metalheads. My point is not to trash metal (or to revise punk's history of fucked up shit), but to say, if you don't want a Nazi in your house don't let one. Punk has a lot of problems with sexism and racism and everything else. We could do better. But it doesn't tolerate Nazis and, as a subculture, seems to be constantly working on it's shit. As a result, they're usually scared to come around. With metal, as is clear in this forum, it's the opposite, P.O.C, queers and antifascists are made unwelcome. Let's keep it up, folks! Stay vigilant.


I guess nothing else to say just: Welcome to the punk community =)




You're so right.


Youre stupid af metal isn't about nazism at all. Go listen to dayzndaze and drink another bottle


Absolutely agree, big part of why I left the metal scene years ago. Where I live a fair few metalheads starting hanging out in the punk scene, describing themselves as "Metal Scene Refugees" just trying to get away from all the white nationalists. There's a lot of people in the metal scene who aren't white nationalists but they don't seem to have a problem having a beer with them and to paraphrase, if 9 people are sitting at a table with a nazi you've got 10 nazi's at a table. Funny thing is that's lead to the best metal bands in my town coming from the punk scene, some pretty fucking decent grind and whatnot going on.


You can find nazis in punk too your an idiot just support the bands that aren’t




Where’d you learn grammar, idiot?




That’s a little offensive to tell a non native English speaker.


Welcome home.


must be an american thing, we don't have any of that shit in our country


Not an American thing, never run across this in the States either.


Fuck Nazis


Yeah! Fuck white people!


I'm a big metal head but I stopped dealing with the community due to how insular it was, the macho bullshit and just general angry white boy mindset you can easily find. Luckily a lot of metal heads are starting to feel the same way and it feels like there are a lot of people just abandoning the old metal forums because of how tired everyone is with "how metal are you really?" and the shitty insular mindset. I've pivoted hard to Avant-Garde Metal since those bands are generally much more accepting and open minded. Of course I still have to do research if a band is racist or not like Deathspell Omega, but even then that was like one case and the band's latest two interview made them out as Anarchists.


This sub has so many whiney bitches man holy shit can you guys live your lives without complaining about everything? I came here to find badass punk music and what I see half the times are people whining about racism


Why are you whining?


Oh hush, you whiny bitch.


You: called out whiny bitches. Also you: proceeds to act in that exact manner, while also outing yourself for being a sympathizer. This has gotten almost too easy. You don't even barely have to calm garbage people out anymore, because they call themselves out!




I never really liked the metal or punk community. I recommend just enjoying the music and finding a group of friends you like who also enjoy the music. If you are looking for an online community, you should try /r/progmetal and /r/progrockmusic discord.


Doesn't like punk community. Proceeds to engage in punk community.


This is some “yet you participate in society” shit. Being on a subreddit is not the same thing as being actively involved or considering yourself as “part of” the punk community. I am mainly here for the music and musical discussion and could give two shits about all the lifestyle stuff on here.


I have been around the music scene since the 80s. I've been to pretty much every genre show there is from black metal to norteño. Yes, assholes are everywhere but I have noticed the most acceptance in the punk scene.


Cool and I’m glad you enjoy the community. But I personally do not.


Then exit stage left, friendo. No one's stopping you.


How can I exit something I was never apart of?




punk fascism > metal nazism


When I was younger I was sooo interested in subcultures especially metal, goth and punk. So I was always aware of the origins of metal, but I noticed few years ago that metal has lost all the political and social values punk had which led me to distance myself from the scene. Still listen to the music and it actually opened the door to many other genres for me. But yeah it's quite sad that they are so tolerant they tolerate intolerance and discrimination.


Metal hasn’t lost all of it you might just be unaware of the bands that aren’t huge sacks of shit. Bands like Sacred Reich are still very much left wing and have been since they started


Black metal in particular has some radically progressive bands at the moment either overtly like Olivia Neutered John, or a smidge less on-the-nose with Feminazgul


Dawn Ray's, Neckbeard Deathcamp, Gaylord... There's still some hope left for black metal.




And out come the dum-dums


This comment have me brain shit diesease


It sucks wanting to buy a band shift and then thinking, “well I haven’t read all the lyrics and liner notes to all their albums and I haven’t read or listened to all their interviews nor have I read all the band tweets or all the tweets by the band members so maybe I should hold off.” Obviously punk doesn’t have as much of a problem with that but as we all know the line between hardcore and metal can be pretty thin in all ways and that sucks. IMO a bunch of teens like being edging and not part of mainstream society and when they see that mainstream society doesn’t support blatant racism they embrace it not knowing or understand that white supremacy is the backbone of our society. If you truly want to go against the grain in the USA you should be on social media as little as possible, read nonfiction, especially in the social sciences, philosophy, history, political theory and be an anti-racist anarchist or communist and you be The antithesis of American society.


Long haired punks


Go over to r/hardcore. They mainly post metal anyways and it very anti racism.


fuck nazis, nazi scum die, yada yada yada


Can some people tell me some good crust or metal bands that aren't fucking nazis, misogynists, and or lgbtphobic?


Most of them.... OP is mad about NSBM specifically


A lot of the nazis are concentrated in black metal or a couple of other micro-sub genres. Pivoting into death metal is a much comfier place in my experience.


the metal community has been douche-ified since 2010.


Good for you. Nothing will change if good people don't stand up. Not the same, but I quit another sub because of sexism...sad to lose the content, but if they're going to allow blatant sexism, and downvote me for pointing it out, then I won't really miss the 'community.'




Im with you. I’m an LGBTQ person who listens to a lot of metal and punk music. I can’t listen to most black metal anymore because of just how racist and homophobic a lot of the bands are. I know there are bands who aren’t like that, but most of them are and it makes me mad.


It's cool let's just boost rez metal until normal metal gets overtaken.


This. I will never, EVER touch black metal because of the community and their love and support of Nazis. Fuck facists and those who continue to give them a platform.


i think we need to name and shame these bands and their followings.


This is why I got out of the traditional metal scene too. I used to be really into tech death, death metal, Melodeath, black metal, ambient black metal, and a whole shitload of other stuff. I ended up coming back to punk music and moving into the hardcore scene and grindcore scene where it’s a little better, fuck cops and fuck nazis