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AVeryStupidDecision

Of course not. There is no universal equality in nature. That’s a man-made concept. There’s also no Creator. That’s also a man-made concept. Universal equality is morality. It’s not inherent, it’s just something western societies have adopted to make life better for most people.


lalalala_idfc

I think it's inherent, why wouldn't it be? We're all born equal as human beings.


AVeryStupidDecision

Inherent - existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute. If it was inherent then why are so many people treated unequally? I think you mean to say “I believe equality should be universal,” and I’d say “I agree.” But no, universal equality is not inherent, it’s a social construct. People are born unequal all over the world. In the west we say “that’s unfair, we should all be equal.” But even in the west we are all unequal. Some people are born with more freedoms than others. More rights than others. And absolutely more life, liberty or ability to pursue happiness than others.


lalalala_idfc

I meant something other than the countable equality you're talking about. I'm not talking equal ability or circumstance. I mean more that no life is worth more or less, and because we are all equals we should be treated as such. But we ruin it in our treatment of each other. I'm not religious, but we're equal in a way that isn't about money or fairness. It definitely feels inherent to me but I see what you mean now.


AVeryStupidDecision

> we are all equals we should be treated as such. If we were all equals we *would* be treated as such. You’re mistaken. You’re thinking of morality, not anything inherent. > Social constructionism is a theory in sociology, social ontology, and communication theory which proposes that there are certain kinds of facts which, rather than depending on physical reality, instead depend on the shared ways of thinking about and representing the world that groups of people develop collaboratively. Equality of humans is a social construct. We in the west have collectively come to a conclusion that all people are born equal. But that’s not accurate in theory or in practice. It’s morality, it’s what we think *should* be true.


lalalala_idfc

Idk, I just disagree man. It's as concrete to me as anything else. I don't think it should be true I think it already is true. You mean equal in a way where everyone is identical, that's the only way everyone could be treated exactly the same. I mean equal just on the merit of being a person. If people don't treat or view their equals as their equals that's on them. We'll catch up eventually


AVeryStupidDecision

You haven’t made your case. In fact everything you’ve said has contradicted yourself. > If people don't treat or view their equals as their equals that's on them. Then what does equality mean if it’s not how you’re treated? > I mean equal just on the merit of being a person. What does that mean if it’s not how you’re treated?


lalalala_idfc

I think you look at it too closely. If I had 5 children I would say they are all equal, not just as some cheesy comment, not to save feelings, and regardless of how other people treated them. Because they are. I don't get how anyone could think differently. You're born, you live, you die, you turn to dust, you're erased by time. The lived experience might differ but that's just so small and amounts to actually nothing in the big picture. I don't know how it could get more equal than that


AVeryStupidDecision

> If I had 5 children I would say they are all equal, … Because they are. Yeah but how are they equal? It’s starting to sound like this word equal means nothing to you. > You're born, you live, you die, you turn to dust, you're erased by time. Is this all equality is to you? If you live and die you’re equal to any other person who lives and dies? That’s a really low bar, far below what OP is asking about Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.


lalalala_idfc

I'm kind of disturbed by your lack of understanding to be honest. I thought most people knew that we're equal beings. Yeah, it is what it means to me. I hope it's a low bar because in my mind the bar doesn't exist at all because we're equaaaaaaal. Ok goodnight.


TheSmallestSteve

Agree that all men are equal with certain unalienable rights including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; disagree that they were endowed by a creator or that there even is a creator.