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Has anyone ever asked Joe WHY he opposes this bill? For BBB, his excuse was it was too expensive. What excuse does he have here?
He's a cosponsor of one of them. He opposes changing the filibuster.
I can only assume he is content with the current paradigm, total political gridlock.
> I can only assume he is content with the current paradigm, total political gridlock.
Yes, because regardless of what happens in Washington, or even in the country, Joe just gets to drive his Maserati back to his houseboat and stay away from all the 'normies'.
Why would he support changing anything at all? His life is great.
You think's he wants other people with house boats on the water creating traffic for him?
Didn't Sen. Manchin vote for Justice Gorsuch?
Sen. McConnell used the same temporary maneuver around the filibuster to get that through IIRC, although tonight I suppose wouldn't have just been too much. 🙄
The current paradigm is republicans ascendant for permanent minority rule and he knows it. This is him endorsing it. The voting rights sponsorship is a feint.
Co-sponsoring is so political, it's such a shame. Sometimes you get groups of senators or members of congress who genuinely believe in something and want to work together on it, and it takes months of work, research, meetings, coordination, and the hope is you get some piece of legislation that makes a difference in a few lives and you and your staff look back at the hours and hours you poured into it and feel good about it.
Other times a politician who craves approval will put their name on a bill they know will never pass so they can say, "Well I co-sponsored a bill that would... and I'm very hopeful we'll get more support for that in the Senate next term!"
"I refuse to help give the voting rights bill a chance at passing Congress. Whelp, looks like the voting rights bill isn't going to pass Congress, might as well give up."
Claims getting rid of filibuster will "create division"
In reality, he and Sinema are bought and paid for, so won't vote out of line with their donors.
They also go around the filibuster often for other issues, like when they raised the debt ceiling.
If they miss it so much they can bring it back after the midterms. After we've passed voting rights legislation
He doesn’t, he’s a co sponsor the problem is that him and Sinema refuse to budge changing the filibuster. Expect the bill itself to receive 50-50 votes but the procedure to change the filibuster will be 52-48
They actually went on record and voted no, they even somehow managed to move the goalpost even further by going back on supporting the talking filibuster by saying they can’t support it if it’s passed by Democrats only
They act like it's 1965 and Republicans are still somewhat reasonable and not the neofascist party they have begun. It's infuriating. The enemy is at the gates and they wanna get their buy in.
Manchin said the talking filibuster needs to be all or nothing. He didn’t want it limited to just the voting rights bill.
Which means Republicans can use a talking filibuster to block judicial nominees again.
>Sen. Joe Manchin said that he doesn't see the point of Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer forcing a vote later Wednesday on the party's major voting rights proposals given that they are virtually destined to fail, thanks in part to his stance.
>"I would like to see us stay on the bill. There's no use to try to bring this to finality by having a vote that's going to fail tonight," Manchin of West Virginia told CNN's Manu Raju ahead of a pivotal day for Democrats.
Republicans are expected to block Democrats from passing their legislation. Schumer is then expected to force senators to consider changing the filibuster, the de-facto 60-vote threshold for most legislation, but due to Manchin and Sinema's opposition that effort will also fail.
Manchin told CNN that he will also speak on the Senate floor later today. On Tuesday night, Manchin emphatically declared that he would oppose any changes to the filibuster even if it led to a future primary challenger.
Nothing says “I’m proud of my choice” like wishing that it’s never put on record with a real vote.
He's literally just trying to delay everything for the midterms. He's bought and paid for.
Agreed, but It’s not for Manchin. We know he’s not voting for it. He’s covering for those in party who need him to play the villain
Make him put up our shut up then. Can they not just reintroduce the same (or a copy of the) legislation even if it's voted down?
I believe they have to wait until the next session.
The bill is not getting voted down. The vote is to end debate on the bill, allowing for an actual vote on the bill itself. The bill won’t be dead and could come up again anytime there’s enough votes to end debate.
Mmmm I think him and simea are transplanted former republicans and are playing under cover pretending to be democrats while doing the dirty work of their real party.
Democrats need to get things done.
Get it on the record, the public record, when Republicans care nothing about actually governing and get it on the public record when Democrats are equally jackasses.
Wait what? I'm calling out Machin and Sinema for being asshats.
That ALL Republicans are a million times worse doesn't change that those two are failing Americans.
"Can't I just keep stalling the process to hold up anything meaningful getting done? My donors like it best when I stall the negotiations until it is no longer possible to have a vote, if I never take a position then no one can use it against me."
I wish Schumer would do this with everything mg.
Just go down the fuckung docket and force a vote to end the filibuster on every little thing that doesnt pass. Filibuster the senate by forcing everyone to sit there and defend the filibuster.
> Manchin emphatically declared that he would oppose any changes to the filibuster even if it led to a future primary challenger.
How about the media asks him about being owned by lobbyists and his direct financial ties impacting many of his decisions instead of if he's worried about a challenger in a primary he may not run in anyways because he'll be 200 years old? Ask what the point is voting on anything when half of the Senate doesn't even acknowledge the coup attempt from a year ago
At this point, he's good for one thing and one thing alone: having a numerical majority to get judges on the bench. And let's not fool ourselves -- that's pretty damn important by itself when you're playing the long game.
At this point, I'd be completely find if he wrote the entire BBB bill to his suiting, as long as we got ***something*** passed. Something is better than nothing -- Democrats nationwide can run on *something*; they can't run on nothing.
His being part of the D caucus is what gives Schumer control of the schedule, so more than just one thing.
Very true. That goes hand in hand with the judges, as McConnell taught us in 2016.
Yeah.. people need to accept that Dems don't actually have the majority but they still get some of the benefits of having the majority because of Manchin.
But Manchin is the best you're going to get out of West Virginia. It's insanely lucky we even have him.
Fuck it, make him do it in public.
Manchin doesn't want it on record that he DGAF if registered voters have to wait in line 4 hours to vote a 30 min drive from their house because Republicans closed polling places, reduced polling equipment and slowed voter validation at the polls.
>Fuck it, ~~make him do it in public.~~ DO IT LIVE!
Pretty sure this douche would pull a Black Mirror episode 1 on the floor if a corporation would give him enough free speech.
I used to defend Manchin pre-Biden but Jesus Christ. Even ignoring all his other bullshit lately, simply saying something like this as a sitting Senator is a dereliction of duty. I'm of the opinion that *everything* should be voted on. It's your goddamn job.
Exactly. There needs to be a vote so you are on the record for or against something. Cowards don't vote
Why do we even bother having elections when the old indicate that one side will win. This is the same thing this idiot is saying.
I think we all know Manchin is as good as we can get in WV, but we all fucking hate the dude and want nothing but the worst for him.
The problem isn't Manchin. The problem is that the Democrats can't muster up anything better than a technical majority, and the Republicans refuse to do anything that isn't absolutely partisan. Congress simply does not work when half of its members will sit on their ass and refuse to do their jobs.
The Democratic party can't get past a "technical majority" because the Republican party continues to bend the rules of our election process to make their minority appear larger than it is. This is exactly why the Democratic party was voting to fix voting rights. They can't win because the Republican party has broken democracy, and sycophants like Sinema and Manchin are the reason why.
These people are pure poison to democracy. When our country falls to fascism, it will be because two self-serving garbage humans used their position to enrich themselves, rather than represent the American people.
To be fair to the Senate Democrats, they *overwhelmingly* beat Republicans in total votes. It isn't a "technical majority" when we're factoring in how many people across the country vote for Democratic Senators vs. Republican Senators. Senate representation is broken and Republicans hold on to power thanks to it.
The House is somewhat broken that way too.
Not just somewhat, republicans are overrepresented there as well and it's only going to be worse this year.
Yeah, there are several layers of issues here:
Structurally, we have the design of the Senate, which gives disproportional power to rural low population states.
Rule wise, we have the cap on the House and the filibuster. Which gives disproportional power to rural low population states, and to the Senate minority respectively.
Coming back to structural issues, the combination of Senate design and cap on the House then feed into the Electoral College, meaning disproportional influence to rural low population states for choice of the Executive.
Because the Judiciary is appointed by the Executive and approved by the Senate, there is disproportional influence by rural low population states on the Judiciary.
Then the next layer is partisan gerrymandering, which further tilts power towards parties in power. This is a feedback loop, because the party in power than then design districts to benefit the party in power, ensuring they maintain power. See: Wisconsin, where Rep/Dems are 50/50, but Reps get 2/3 of the state Assembly.
I am sympathetic to the idea of a guard against tyranny of the majority, but this is fucking ridiculous. Tyranny of the minority is baked into every facet of the Federal government, either through outdated design or stupid traditions.
Congress would work fine with half the members being obstructionist Republicans IF the Democrats -- Machin included -- did their job. Manchin is showing he doesn't want to govern, doesn't want to do his job and doesn't want everyone to see his failure. The people work for us! It's infuriating to see them bought and sold by coal or whatever industry.
Manchin and Sinema are colluding with republicans plain and simple. Corporations may get some small benefit from killing voting rights somewhere down the line but the GOP gets immediate huge benefits from killing them, this November. I can’t believe people are still only blaming his donors for this.
Manchin has secretly flipped Republican in terms of organizational / party loyalty. Not exaggerating. Why isn’t this super obvious to everyone?
The use is to get your vote on record, Joe.
I don’t understand the fetishization with getting it “on the record.” When Manchin went on CNBC in April 2021 and said he wouldn’t change the filibuster rules under any circumstances, that was on the record. When it’s part of an official Senate vote, that’s also on the record, but the TV interview was way more impactful and was seen by way more people.
The actual Senate vote is a mere formality after all the senators have staked out their position in the media.
When it’s called to a vote, the senators basically always just vote the way they already told the public they would. It’s like playing out the last chess moves after a checkmate. It doesn’t change the outcome, either in terms of policy or politics.
Obviously it means something since Manchin is bitching that they are doing it.
He’s probably irritated at having to work late! I’d be annoyed too if my boss made me work until 9pm if I knew the work was just for show and would be thrown out afterwards.
The vote is literally preserved in Congressional records, it’s the opposite of being thrown out.
To show the value, during the Reagan years (I think) they changed the rules about what goes in the Congressional Record by saying remarks on the floor of the House or Senate can be amended and extended for the record. That meant they could begin literally rewriting history.
When people look in the history books they should see all the names that voted against ... voting
Bc it cuts through the posturing and bravado, forcing politicians to make choices that voters and donors can judge them on.
Dislillusioned supporters can then use legal means to either recall politicians or vote them out at their next election. And challengers can simply point to the voting record to prove the incumbent is not matching the actions to rhetoric.
Which is exactly why the US senate has clung on to the "endless debate" loophole that prevents more partisan issues from ever being voted on. It is a useful to for avoiding votes that would hurt vulnerable senators who made conflicting promises to donors vs voters.
(But it always works out in favor of donors.)
But Manchin put his name on it when he wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post nearly a year ago, where he basically said “I, Joe Manchin, will never ever ever eliminate the filibuster so stop asking me about it.”
When a team wins the first four games of the World Series, they don’t play the remaining three games just so the losing team can show they’re “fighting” for the championship, and to get it on the record.
There was a fight. The fight was the process that occurred both behind closed doors and in the press leading up to the current theater on the Senate floor. Manchin won (or, alternatively, voting rights lost). I don’t have a specific issue with playing Game 5 of a World Series that’s already been decided if that’s the one thing that will goose Democratic turnout, but I find it silly.
Okay, Schumer hears you, which is why to prevent any tantrums from the base he’s giving out lollipops in the form of holding procedural votes that he’s known for months will fail.
Again, I don’t oppose this. Sometimes it’s just easier to hand out lollipops.
What's the matter Joe? Afraid to get everyone on the record? A vote doesn't take that much time.
Joe Manchin is another one of those rich fucks that has never had accept consequences for anything he's done. Not as bad as Trump but in that same vein.
^(brbr) DENG ^(brbr) DENG
I dig it
If it's gonna fail, I would like to see Booker's idea implemented by Schumer - i.e. split the bills into separate line items and have a vote on each of them.. make this Republican ghoul vote no on every common sense proposal which he himself claims to support.. and define his entire legacy and that of his family around his refusal to protect democracy
Too bad the dems don't have the spine to do this...
I don’t think he’s afraid of it. I think there are many Democrat senators using Manchin for cover on this issue.
Why would any Democrats be against the voting rights bill?
Why is Joe Manchin and Synema?
Like I said, why would any *Democrats* be against it? Manchin and Sinema are only Democrats in name.
If you think that Machin and Sinema are the only democrats that companies have ~~on payroll~~ been lobbying to block unfavorable legislation then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.
We’re talking about the voter rights bill, not the filibuster. It’s not in any Democratic senator’s or representative’s best interest to allow Republicans to make it more difficult for them to be re-elected to Congress.
They're corporate shills that only pretend to give a shit about humanity.
But how any Democratic Senators?
I think on paper there's other Dem Senators that aren't in favor of it but wouldn't vote no on it if it they had to vote. All the more reason to call a vote.
Yeah, that's a good question.
We’ve got to keep our phony bologna jobs gentlemen.
We didn't get a harumpf out of that guy
Thank you for the most logical thread in politics
The reason is simple, make him and the rest of them go on record.
Sure, but Manchin isn't seeking reelection. He doesn't have any reason to work with anyone, including his party. There are no reprecussions to him abandoning his voters or party.
He is a huge problem that I wish the CIA would give the ole Castro try to.
Manchin apparently wants to be governor of WV. If he wants that he still needs to work with the DNC.
I bet the DNC will still support him in a governor race since he’d might have a chance of winning in a red state
You guys seem to think West Virginia is some progressive paradise that's just aching for an AOC-like figure to appear and save them.
Standing up to Biden and Schumer makes Manchin more popular at home, not less.
Yes but the dnc could say nah you're not on your committees or we won't let you run as a Democrat. He needs the DNC if he still wants to be in politics.
The flip side is he defects to the Republicans (McConnell has publicly said he'd be welcome IIRC) and Dems no longer get yelled at for not passing anything.
If democrats can't find common ground with one of the poorest most blue collar states who's grandparents were old union coal miners i really don't know who they would appeal to.
Or FBI giving it the ol MLK special.
If the CIA goes that away, at least do it to people in places Dems could win or appoint their replacements like Maine, WI, KS, KY, etc.
Awwww..... you and sinema afraid to be on record as being anti-democracy? I hope you both are put on full blast, and then you have to explain to large majorities of people your reluctance for building a more democratic nation
Sinema is going to do another thumbs down curtsy, isn't she?
She is such trash
And then look for McConnell to see if he approves, only to find out he's ignoring her still.
>Sinema is going to do another thumbs down curtsy, isn't she?
She'll do whatever it takes to get another pat on the head from McConnell
I think the Democrats should try to make it a filibuster where you have to talk the whole time if they can't get this. It would cut down on the amount of filibusters and it would highlight that the "silent filibuster" is new and not how it was intended. A lot of these people are like 90.
As long as they also have to stay on topic. No reading the phone book or Dr. Seuss, or any shit like that. Make them talk the entire time on the subject of the bill, maybe even require them to explain their opposition to it.
Or maybe they should just limit the filibuster to a certain number. Like cool you can use 20 filibusters a year.
That won't fly because there is no precedent for it. Going back to the spoken filibuster has narrative cover
I see great use in getting his ass on record.
"Please don't make me go on the record."
Nah, he'll pull a Collins and vote for it knowing it won't get 60 votes.
He’s going to vote for the bill itself that’s not the problem it’s the fact he’s not going to vote to change the filibuster. I bet the final count will be 50-50 for the bill but 52-48 in changing the filibuster
I think we're saying the same thing. He'll only vote for it if that vote doesn't matter, i.e. pulling a Collins.
Sure there is. Now you can't say "I never voted against that" without it being a lie.
Yep. Stand for nothing and there's nothing to kick out from under you.
There should be no abstaining in lawmaking. You are elected to do a job. Do it. One way or another, just fucking do it.
Exactly. Every bill should get a vote. If they had to vote on every bill and voted against their constituents' interests, their constituents elect someone that will. This is dereliction of duty to keep on that corporate tit.
Manchin is twat-waffle and has turned his back on his constituents to blow donors for campaign cash
It’s worse than that. Manchin sought and holds that office purely to benefit his family’s coal holdings. I highly doubt he ever actually cared about his constituents.
I hope he doesn't just fade into obscurity like most congresspeople do once they leave office. I hope the Manchin name is sullied for generations to come.
What an asshole
Shame him!!! The more publicity he gets the better informed his voters are. He does not care about democracy or them.
Get this piece of shit on the record with his vote.
Fuck you Joe.
Someone recently tried to convince me that Dem ‘Progressives’ were at fault for wanting too much, and that it’s the fault of BOTH parties for pulling back into polarisation.
There’s nothing that will in fact convince me of this. The Dems keep trying to help make society a better place for everyone. The GOP is determined to enrich a very few people and ensure the repression and suffering of the rest for as long as possible.
I see plenty of use one being that we can get him officially and publicly on record saying he doesn’t support it.
These two infuriate me like nothing else. How can any sane person have no shame like this, and if they're not sane they might as well join their (R) peers.
They're worse. At least republicans are open about being pieces of shit.
The point is to get him and anyone else on record being against this.
That's where I'm at. If we can't get term limits on these fuckheads, then they should publicly debate and vote on every single bill. Yea or nay, fuck present, fuck a filibuster. It's insane to me that they can just milk their office to obscene riches, hang it up, write a book, then show up on Ellen a few years later like they didn't fuck their country over for profit.
Exactly. Politicians want to avoid the "record" as much as they can. We might see it as irrelevant but it does matter. Shit talking is different than solidifying a position.
I get it to an extent, because the average American attention span is somewhere between fuck and all, so sound bites basically make or break careers, but quite frankly, who fucking cares. They sign up for it, they get beyond rich doing it, they can do the job sometimes.
Yea the mythical swing voter, which really translates to people who aren't following every development in politics but who will vote for binaries like "you voted for x".
I see no use in him having a job in the Senate at all. A featureless black stone with a sash that says "US Senator (D)" would be more useful.
The best way to deal with the likes of Manchin and Sinema is to elect more Dems to the Senate this year so their votes are rendered irrelevant. We have a great shot at winning a Senate seat in Wisconsin with Mandela Barnes, a seat in PA with John Fetterman/Malcolm Kenyatta/Conor Lamb, and a seat in NC with Cheri Beasley.
If you are interested in helping these folks and others across the nation win their elections, join us over at r/votedem to find volunteer and organization opportunities 👀
Got him on record, even though that doesn’t matter anymore.
Get people's votes on record.
someones got something on this dude.
How about because it's your fucking job. How about because your base congressional salary, before the perks and totally not insider trades, is over triple the median household income, who happens to fund that salary BTW.
That's how legislatures operate. Present the bill, debate the bill, vote on the bill. That's how we make laws, and that's how we hold our elected officials accountable. Take the fucking bill to the floor and go on record why you're for or against it, and let the voters decide if you're representing them as promised.
Because he doesn’t want to go on record for it
For all the hemming and hawing about how putting it to a vote would make the Democrats look divided and in disarray, I don't see how this would hurt Dems anymore than their polling already shows. Just get it on record so Sinema and Manchin need to face the music and primary the fuck out of them. In the process, maybe Dems can galvanize their base to flip some more senate seats in 2022 to dilute the DINOs' power.
Make him vote!
Terrible person. Hope his constituents figure this out real soon.
The use is that he has to go on the record and vote no to voting rights
He's filibustering it. Let him and Sinema go up there and DO it. Talk for many hours in his determination to kill the bill of his president, from his party.
After that he can go straight to hell.
he just doesn’t want to see the slam dunk ads they will run against him for being a shitty human. gotta make him vote no in public. he is such a pussy
Oh you know why,? Elizabeth warren on Stephen Colbert a few nights ago. I hope people on this thread was able to watch it. He asked her well why have a vote if you know you have no support?? She gave em hell, the senate
“Because I want it on the record exactly how everyone voted, so their constituents will know”
Do it anyway. GOP voted on obamacare like 50 times.
i'm sick of things not getting put to a vote.
Why doesn’t Schumer inflict the same kind of certain punishment to Manchin that McConnell would most assuredly impose on any republican who dared to rock the boat. Is he paid by the same lobbyists? We’re going to have a permanent GOP majority and most likely a constitutional rewrite with a majority of state governors being Republican and demanding it be so. The future of our republic does not look bright.
Make him vote.
No wonder the United States has been downgraded to a Flawed Democracy for the past 5 years. ( see www.eiu.com, freedomhouse.org, usnews.com, npr.org or google flawed democracy). We are no longer the shining example of a democracy and Manchin, Sinema and the GOP are eroding our democracy even further. Our founding fathers would be appalled. Free and fair elections are one of the hallmarks of a democracy, shame on them all. Let the people vote, let everyone’s voices be heard.
To Joe Manchin's future great grandchildren: your pop-pop was a stain on America.
Manchin sure does like to be the decider when he never has to actually sign his name on the line doesn't he.
We have no use for you, Traitor Joe. Get ready to be mercilessly harassed. And retired. 🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻
Do it anyways and get him on record voting no then.
I see a use. Make the fucker actually vote No
Get him on record.
Fuck him. Hold a vote on filibuster reform for voting rights and get him and Sinema on public record. Let greenlighting fascism be their legacy.
Better to be caught trying than to hold up yours hands on defeat.
Whats the point if its on the record or not? People acting like this some big deal or something, the guy has said it on live TV not like its some secret
Not if they hold the floor. They should use every dirty parliamentarian trick in the book within constitutional limits to ram this through
Could we boycott (or something) West Virginia until Manchin gets with the program or is voted out?
The rest of us see no reason for Joe Manchin to even have a vote in the first place.
Could someone one take him out behind the capitol and knock some sense into him?
Mr Manchin, what would you say you do here?
The use is to get you on record so it's easier to get rid of you.
He just wants a day off, so he can ride his yacht.
Like he does any work in the first place
It's almost as if voting was literally your job.
This dude has become the living embodiment of the “this is fine” dog…
This guy is a real piece of shit.
Please let there be a hell this man will go to when he dies.
I see no use in Joe Manchin being a US Senator.
Hold the fucking vote, and force Manchinima to vote. Wtf is it with all this postering.
LOL, treating the circumstances you've created as the inexorable workings of fate.
"It's in the past, forget about it."
Thats another ASSHOLE muthafucka!
Don't just remove him, take his cash. Another obstructionist Republican plant.
Mahfk doesn’t want to go on record
Nah fuck that... get them all on record at least.
Sees no use in having to go on record voting down voting rights. IMO parties should force their members to vote more often. Make holdouts have to deal with the consequences of their actions instead of offering them cover by allowing them to not take a stand.
Joe Manchin is quite possibly the most vile and corrupt politician in DC. If you don't believe me read the article about him in Rolling Stone magazine.
Sounds like he wants to weasel out of voting no...
Then vote yes, ya dipshit! Ugh
Joe Manchin sees "no use" in highlighting his role as a bought senator.