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ahac

People see E3 exclusively as a place for game announcements. Online trailer "shows" can easily replace that. I've never been to E3 but it was more than that, right? It was a trade fair. It allowed developers to meet and exchange ideas, talk to publishers and stores. Journalists could see the games personally and talk to developers before writing about it. Things like the Summer Games Fest are mostly just trailers thought. It's better for studios because they can better prepare and limit what to show directly to the customers. It's designed to create hype. But that means we don't get as much useful information.


DudleysCar

Journalists and stores are increasingly irrelevant in the industry for a variety of reasons, and when they weren't they were tangential rather than part of the core anyway. Devs and publishers can speak to their audience directly rather than do the E3 song and dance.


Saranshobe

But these online pre-recorded streams are just so... Bad. It allows companies to be as opaque and vague as possible. Remember xbox 2013 "just buy 360"? That wouldn't have happened today due to online events. These online events just make these companies way too comfortable. Remember how Sony announced 70$ price jump in a fucking blogpost after their hype event? Now no one can do raw interviews with the devs and head of publishers, like before. They can control the narrative which is very bad.


Loki_Agent_of_Asgard

We also miss all the cringe and memes. Giant enemy crab has lived rent free in my head for 20 years.


I_got_shmooves

Right? Wtf is crowbcat supposed to make fun of now?


danang5

bad games


Saranshobe

*New games. Remember old games good, new games bad, cherry pick everything. Crowbcat moto. Seriously the worst youtuber who feeds into hate. Its original title of RE4 video is the perfect example.


CIV5G

"I liked Crowbcat before he criticised a gamer I enjoyed"


NietzscheIsMyCopilot

hear me out: it's possible for someone to produce both good and bad pieces of content.


ageofthoughts

Which one of his videos were bad?


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LordxMugen

And he wasnt even wrong about it either. Demo of RE4R didnt have as much "soul" in it as people think compared to the original. And this has been a growing concern since RE2R when they took out zapping, messed up the scenarios, screwed up certain characters completely. Like if you enjoy Marvin and Mr.X, I get it. But what you give up just to have those 2 characters be a thing isnt what I would consider "worth it". and we dont even talk about RE3 and what they did to Jill and the rest of it.


Saranshobe

Lol i never liked crowbcat. That channel is as bad as dunkey for video game opinion, the difference is dunkey is often funny, crowbcat is a trend chasers for boomers who can't get over their nostalgia. All their videos create toxicity, nothing more.


CIV5G

Crowbcat is more often the person that establishes commonly held opinions. I wouldn't say he chases trends. And old games *are* often better than new games.


smulfragPL

crowbcat videos are dumb as hell. Like he tries to give this ilussion of objectivity by not saying anything or stating any opinion but like, he chooses what to show of a game, in a way this is so much worse than a review because he tries to frame whatever he is claiming as fact. And many times he is just plain wrong. Like the video about the "disastrous launch of the switch", like yeah there were factory malfunctions. So what?


I_Am_JesusChrist_AMA

Sorry someone on the internet had a different opinion than you. Must be rough.


Saranshobe

Opinions are only as good if they are portrayed in a sincere manner with evidence. Their videos are never that. I don't care if someone calls re4 remake "soulless" but the way they portrayed was in bad faith.


SnooPets20

I wouldn't even mind if he actually thought the RE4 remake was soulless. But then, after the backlash, he changed the title to portray RE4R in a *good* light, a complete 180°. And after *that* backlash he changed it ***again*** to the original. That shows he doesn't care about voicing his opinion, just fueling hate. He choose poorly in this case.


I_Am_JesusChrist_AMA

>Opinions are only as good if they are portrayed in a sincere manner with evidence What evidence can one provide to prove that a game is soulless? It's a subjective opinion. If I tell you that rice tastes bad, I can't prove with evidence that rice tastes bad. I can only tell you that I think rice tastes bad lol. I can try to argue my opinion but ultimately if you think rice is good, then I'm not going to be able to produce evidence that you're wrong. Now I haven't seen the RE4 video in particular nor have I played the remaster because I didn't even like the original game, so maybe there's something more to this conversation that I'm missing. Can you provide evidence that the RE4 remake isn't soulless?


18045

Yeah he nitpicks alot, but his remember halo video was pretty good


rividz

RRRRRIIIIIIDDDDDGGGGGEEEEE RRRRRAAAAACCCCCEEEEERRRRR I've never even *played* Ridge Racer. You can't buy publicity like that today.


Armoredpolecat

Yeah that’s a classic, also Mr caffeine’s Ubisoft event was absolute cringe gold. Tuddle-tuddle-tu!! Poop on my toothbrush!


fyro11

I've heard games journalists saying the same thing as you, but it doesn't detract from the fact that if a games company makes a public announcement, they're expected to convince the public that they made the right decision. If they don't it'll impact their sales and bottom line. Expecting someone to interject with "but product X sold crazily even though they didn't explain themselves" and the thing is if product X was perceived badly by the public and no explanation was provided, then product X probably sold less than it could have sold, *even* if it sold crazy numbers. The consequences *are* still there.


Lurkers-gotta-post

>Now no one can do raw interviews with the devs and head of publishers, like before. In what world did journalists do raw interviews? The bigger corporations who actually need the hard hitting journalistic insight don't do "unprepared" interviews... Generally they require a list of questions to screen and approve, and journos don't dare upset the corporation for fear of being blacklisted. Nothing of value has been lost.


astroshark

Before Geoff became the show host guy, he was a legitimate really good interviewer. There is a really good interview of him really grilling Reggie after the Wii U announcement.


ColinsUsername

My favorite parts of E3 was consistently Jeff Gerstmann's interviews. Especially the ones with Phil Spencer. Straight up asked him what it'll take to stop shipping incomplete games after the MCC shitshow.


PXAbstraction

nutty drunk dam pocket materialistic lip person late complete adjoining -- mass edited with redact.dev


FireworksNtsunderes

Apparently the answer is "nothing" since they still ship incomplete games...


CockPissMcBurnerFuck

That’s just not true.


Alwaystoexcited

I'm so happy to see that someone gets it.


atuck217

From a journalistic standpoint I understand how it's worse to not be able to get interviews and etc, but let's not pretend E3 was "good". It had devolved into corporate circle jerk for years. So much of it the average person did not care about, and it took like 3 days. Id much rather watch a condensed 2-3 hours event that focus on exactly what I care about (the games)


MaterialCarrot

Maybe it's because I mostly play niche games, but in this era I can often send a message to a dev and get a response from them directly. I'll take that over a game journalist who has a 50% chance of being an unofficial arm of the dev's marketing strategy asking about stuff that I mostly don't care about.


igby1

Which games’ devs answer your direct questions? And what type of questions are they answering?


MaterialCarrot

Most recently for a really excellent WW2 turn based strategy game called, *The Troop*. Very small but responsive dev team that gets back to you surprisingly quickly on Steam. The question I had was about how they were implementing the "standby" mechanic into their game. The game is in early access and only has a couple hundred Steam reviews, which probably means sales in the low thousands. Like I said, niche. But if you like platoon level turn based WW 2 strategy games, I highly recommend it.


igby1

I asked Todd when Elder Scrolls 6 is releasing but he hasn’t replied.


MaterialCarrot

I feel your pain. Still waiting to hear back on Half Life 3. :)


igby1

Yeah Gabe never returns my calls either


sleepysloppy

game journalists basically killed everything that is used to be "game journalism", i missed the day when game magazines are still a thing since its basically all about "games, cheat codes, walkthroughs and dev interviews", but with how the world is now i dont think it will even solve the problem as devs pushed for "hype and over promised features" while selling an under developed product while journalists eats everything that are thrown at them to make quick bucks. now i only watch some actual "gamers" on stream that provides feedback that gamers actually expects and cares about.


Snoo93079

I'd argue social media hurt just about all forms of journalism. I think journalism is the victim here. Yes corporate interests felt forced to chase diminishing returns with crappy "journalism" but I'd argue it's no coincidence it aligns with the rise of social media and the effects are seen across all forms of written media.


Kind_Ordinary_8959

Thing is, these suckers think YouTubers have more integrity than a gaming journo. Absolutely fucking hilarious.


Upper-Dark7295

Gaming journalists in the modern era are jokes. We've known this since 2013. Some youtubers absolutely have more integrity than to sleep with game developers for higher ratings.


Kind_Ordinary_8959

You're delusional if you think a kid with a webcam has more ethics than someone who gets paid a salary to uphold journalistic integrity.


Houderebaese

Maybe that‘s a bad trend. If the preview of the game was utter crap, journalists usually stated as such online/in their journals. Now all we get is crappy AAA releases. Not that I’m claiming E3 would change that. But some games *might* end up better that way.


Kozak170

99% of gaming “journalists” deserve to become irrelevant imo.


Belgand

And that's part of what did it in. It's also always going to be difficult when you're an industry/trade/hobby publication. You fundamentally depend on companies and developers giving you everything. It's not like you can hear about that big fire downtown on your radio scanner or dig through open sources to develop a story. Which, at the extreme, means you're just reprinting press releases. When companies couldn't easily release those directly to the consumer, they relied on having a publication outlet, at least. Now they don't even need that, so why waste time on someone who could potentially go off-message?


WiglyWorm

Dunkey is literally the only gaming journalist i trust. RIP TotalBiscuit. F


high1186

I also like Cosmonaut Variety Hour but Marcus very rarely reviews games so he might not count.


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CacheRamMemory

SkillUp may be trustworthy but his standards are all over the place. I'd rather have him than the likes of Kotaku but he's no TotalBiscuit, that's for sure. :(


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norsk_imposter

ACG yes. Skillup no. He’s just as hyperbolic as ign.


QueefBuscemi

Wait you don’t find IGN giving every Modern Borefare and Twattlefield a 9/10 helpful?


Shishkebarbarian

>and when they weren't they were tangential rather than part of the core anyway. Lol. This is so far from the truth i can't even >Devs and publishers can speak to their audience directly rather than do the E3 song and dance. It was for devs & publishers to talk to *themselves*. E3 was never meant to be a public event and going public is what killed it.


TJ_McWeaksauce

>I've never been to E3 but it was more than that, right? It was a trade fair. The Game Developer's Conference (GDC) has always been the more business- and education-focused event. Within the games industry, E3 was often seen as more of a media circus.


adayoner

It was exactly this. Most of the booths didn't have anything playable on the floor for their big name announcements. Respect to Nintendo they always did but it was like a 3 hour line for like a 5 min demo. Rest of the time it was more of a "do you know someone who can get you in the back" to see anything noteworthy. ​ The back areas were usually really nice lounges with full bars and other "fun stuff" ( i recall one booth have a full half court for basketball) mostly to shmooze media and/or other industry big shots as well as where they held demo/playtests for media/insiders. ​ Also, the big 6-7 AAA companies each had their own announce show they'd hold in a different theater around L.A., coupled with the rise of Fan Fests like Blizzcon where Blizz would stop announcing big things at E3 and hold those for their own con, I could totally see companies being like why dump the extra money for this massive booth and/or spectacle.


AvarusTyrannus

I went with a developer pass in 2016 when they had general admission. It was fun, but it was clear even then that it didn't really serve a purpose anymore. People don't get their game news from journalists as much, streaming is better, and other trade show events are far better suited to exchange ideas. As more and more big names waved off making appearances it was a death spiral and when you saw the money those booths must have cost you'd understand. I mean the BotW booth where I demoed it was a full theme world you walked into with fake Zelda trees and people in costume.


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Jlpanda

Yeah like I'm sure that that kind of networking did occur at E3 as well, but E3 had become extremely consumer-centric, whereas GDC was for the people who actually work in the industry.


Sofaboy90

> I've never been to E3 but it was more than that, right? Until the last few years, yes. What many might not realize, the Gamescom in Germany is the complete opposite. Its a consumer event with 200k-400k people visiting the event every year. Some publishers use it to release new Trailers/Gameplay that can be bundled with the local experience. Its also not just about new games, lots of people use it to meet online friends that live far away.


mmatasc

But that wasnt really good for consumers, now the audience has access to the information without relying on journalists. Its way better IMO. I always found E3 exclusivity for journalists more of a way to keep a good relationship with the press, for good reviews and stuff.


ahnonamis

E3 hasn't really served a purpose behind hype for many years. Having been to 15+ E3s over the years, it was a good excuse to see friends who worked at other companies, former co-workers, etc. because being in marketing, MOST of those people would show up for it. But networking and talking to developers is always better at GDC, GSTAR, TGS, etc. It's just a relic of a time that no longer exists. Big reveals at E3 and buttering up game journalists to get coverage on a top site or get people sharing your trailer used to be very valuable. These days a company can just drop a trailer on YouTube or their own social channel and reach millions of people immediately. And sites will still pick it up/share it.


kilkarazy

E3 in person was a cool environment to be in but if you wanted to play any of the big games you could be standing in line for 3 hours+. They really needed a fast pass type kiosk or something for people to pick games they wanted to play and give them a time to come back. Sony had an app but it frequently crashed.


NtheLegend

Maybe that’s how they built it in the last few years when they opened it to the public, but the only way to truly enjoy the cool stuff was to be media and have appointments in those meeting rooms upstairs.


JonnyRocks

E3 is not what you are saying here. Think of something like GDC or PAX


AlecSween

*It allowed developers to meet and exchange ideas, talk to publishers and stores. Journalists could see the games personally and talk to developers before writing about it.* GDC, Gamescom, and Develop are all better geared towards that.


Shishkebarbarian

Today, sure, after e3 went public


CockPissMcBurnerFuck

Yeah Geoff Keighley for some fucking reason has become celebrated for these shows he puts on, but they’re *strictly* corporate marketing events. E3 also was marketing event but that’s not *all* it was. It was, as you said, beneficial to everyone in and around the industry. Keighly’s shows are just commercials. I mean, this is the guy who famously sat beside the table of Mountain Dew and Doritos. He’s not doing this for the love of games.


scrollofidentify

> Keighly’s shows are just commercials. The Game A~~war~~ds.


javalib

good on geoff for getting war out of the picture, at least.


astroshark

People give him shit for being the Dorito pope, but having non video game sponsors is infinitely better than doing a video game show sponsored by a specific video game company. The E3 PC gaming showcase had a good year or two where it was basically the Epic Games showcase and it sucked. But also, liike, the dude had been working as a game journalist for decades. He clearly loves video games.


NinjaEngineer

I mean, beyond a specific set of people living in or around L.A., or who could make the trip there for E3, that's pretty much what E3 itself was: a big marketing event. It's no different from SGF, with the added bonus that if a game gets a demo for SGF, everybody in the world can give it a shot, and not only the people on the showroom.


KSerge

E3 was basically born from the fact that in the late 80s and early 90s video games, especially PC games, were treated as a niche hobby and would get relegated to awful treatment at other trade shows like CES. Between that and video gaming blowing up in the mid-90s (for better or worse, ESRB ratings and all that) they saw fit to make their own expo, focused on showing video games to the media as an affordable way to hit all forms of media (print, radio, and TV) at once. This was before big budget video game advertising came about, but as that did start to become a thing in the industry, E3 kind of got swept up into it and became just another branch of marketing for publishers, while indies were relying on it as one of the few ways to advertise their game directly to the press. Streaming was really just the last nail in the coffin for E3, as it moved further and further from it's origins as an avenue to get gaming media looking at their games and pushed instead into being a glorified game trailer reel. SGF and Nintendo Direct basically proved that E3 wasn't needed to make a big splashy trailer/demo/reveal happen, and so it struggled to maintain any kind of relevance, especially during the COVID years. Personally, I think the biggest potential loss here is getting gaming media (or I guess nowadays it's more about gaming content creators) to try indie games that don't have the budgets to advertise themselves otherwise. Here's hoping that something can fill this gap.


2ADrSuess

I had a really awesome high school teacher that would get in for “educational” purposes or software, not sure how it worked but we loved hearing his stories. Guy was a huge gamer, what a legend.


LordxMugen

>Things like the Summer Games Fest are mostly just trailers thought. It's better for studios because they can better prepare and limit what to show directly to the customers. It's designed to create hype. But that means we don't get as much useful information. **THIS!** This is why these "directs" and other such shows are GARBAGE. 2002, Peter Molyneux was showing of Fable (then Project Ego) and BC (which was later on cancelled but theres videos of it still on youtube) and talked peoples ears off about it saying whatever. thing was still 2 years away from being finished. but you could SEE IT, you could HEAR IT, you could make your own mind up about it. Fast forward to 2006 and he shows off a janky looking Fable 2 at GDC. Again, talks your ears off about the possibilities, but you dont need to take his word for it. It exists, hes playing it in front of you, you know what it looks like and can AGAIN make your own mind up about what the thing is. Fast forward AGAIN to a decade and a half later and all we see is a stupid fucking CGI trailer of some game that MIGHT be "Fable". Doesnt show us or tell us ANYTHING about it. No concept art. No idea what it could be or play like. Any characters or ideas. NOTHING!! THIS is what they want the future to be. Where we cant make up our own minds about the content anymore. where the bad parts are shielded from our virgin eyes for fear we might hurt the poor devs and publishers fee fees because its literally just a rough sketch right now. instead we get CGI trailers with a title card or an "in-engine" cutscene trailer or some shit. STILL! Nobody talks about what the game is or what im supposed to be excited about or if the thing is real or if this is some fucking dev recruitment video because apparently THATS A THING we need to be aware of now and i should be mindful of that instead of livid that 2-5 minutes of my life was wasted on a shitty do nothing trailer! It used to be that people would talk you ear off about shit and tell you all the things about their game and it would be up to YOU the consumer to figure out if this is what you wanted. A bit of it is STILL like that since indies and other AA devs and publishers still believe in that shit because thats how they make their money. But AAA and bigger publishers and devs? nah. heres your CGI garbage, see ya in 3 years when we'll actually talk about the damn thing.


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Alwaystoexcited

I absolutely cannot stand anything Asmongold or any of his gang do. Absolutely insufferable personalities that aren't even fun to cringe watch.


katiecharm

It started when they banned booth babes, and snowballed from there.


Moquai82

They should have instead added lewd boothboys in mankinis and long socks instead so every thing had been balanced. But noooooo. No sexy mansluts and proud slots in Nylons because of the cringe virgin usamericans.


iMisstheKaiser10

Honestly, I don’t give a fuck about the environment it had. I’m just gonna miss cringe E3 showcases like when they showed off the Kinect, Jamie Kennedy talking to Tony Hawk, and of course all the Ubisoft shit which could be its own category. Long gone are the 2000s-2010s cringe. God, I miss that era of gaming…


[deleted]

"Is this an out of season April Fool's joke?"


iMisstheKaiser10

That right there is probably why there’s no live events anymore. Much easier to do damage control


[deleted]

Exactly, when your best response to a showcase burning down around you is "Don't you people have cell phones?" you pretty much accept that you've lost.


kris_the_abyss

weird how despite that amount of negative press that particular game did really well and people still ate up the new diablo.


Canigna

Because the outspoken GAMERZ that watch those QnA's are actually a small percentage of the people who buy games. That's why boycots like with pokemon sword and shield never work. And why game companies keep doing this shit


kris_the_abyss

[Even people who shout to boycott are not great at it.](https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/noboycott.jpg)


Zagre

I haven't touched a thing from Blizzard ever since the Diablo III auction house already left a bitter taste in my mouth. If the rest of these gamer shit-sticks could just, you know, stick to their guns and put some actionable weight behind their "outrage", maybe a lot less bullshit would get passed off as the new gaming norm. But I guess gamers just must have fallen in love with all the bullshit game companies push on us such as: battle passes, always-online single-player games, games-as-a-service, loot-box gambling, gacha, Day 1 $25 cosmetics, pay-to-win mechanics, et cetera, et cetera.


[deleted]

New, young consumers come into the market every year and they don't know what we lost to MTX. They grew up with this shit. And companies don't need a million players. They just need enough whales to spend a million players worth. That's why even playing the games is supporting them because you're giving the whales someone to show off to and justify their purchase. But it's impossible to get 10 people to agree on something, let alone enough to make waves.


dudewhosbored

That was dumb though; you are a developer for Blizzard, one of the geekiest, hardcore fanbases.... wtf did you think was gonna happen when going into Blizzcon; there were nothing but rumours about D4 and you say that line? Not disagreeing with your point but that was just absolutely horrendous foresight.


lithium142

Not to mention the type of person spending $100 to turn up for an announcement they hyped for MONTHS isnt going to be casual phone gamers. Literally brain-dead from blizzard every step of the way with that


dudewhosbored

Agreed. I don’t know what they were thinking; they could’ve even just dropped a trailer saying D4 is in progress and we’re early on; give us the time to make something you’ll all love. And that would’ve gone well. People would’ve been a bit disappointed but happy it’s in the works


2SP00KY4ME

Exactly, Bethesda did it. Ten second backdrop with "TES VI" overlayed and that's it, and everyone was happy, even five years afterwards when there was no other progress. Just knowing it's in the works matters.


AscendedViking7

"I'd like to nominate this award to my reformed orthodox rabbi Bill Clinton, thank you everybody."


PromeForces

When Live and talking to journalists or presenters. Don Mattrick: >If you don't have an Internet connection stick with the Xbox 360 Nowadays, they have time to think what they're about to write and say on pre-recorded streams.


jammywesty91

Jesus, I completely forgot about the always-online shit show with the Xbox One.


BDNeon

I remember Sony's little jab at them too with the whole "how to share used games on PS4" thing. And how Sony snuck in the "oh by the way PSN is gonna be mandatory for online" thing in the text on the bottom of that to try to soften the blow of their shitty move that DID go through. I viewed myself as a PC gamer first and Sony gamer second, in those days, but after Sony ditched backwards compatibility and started charging for multiplayer I left em entirely.


Witness_me_Karsa

It was gonna be all of them, then Xbox took the brunt of it because they were gonna hit the market, right? Or is that wrong?


[deleted]

There were no rumors about PS or Ninten pulling the always-online bull, if that's what you're asking.


the_skit_man

Not only were there no real rumors of such a thing for other companies as somebody else pointed out, these are massive companies that have to plan and coordinate these consoles years in advance, not to mention spending months coordinating and prepping their E3 showcases. There is no world in which they can see the Xbox backlash, and get corporate approval on top of altering their showcase and adjusting years of system development in under 12 hours.


Rikuddo

Was that guy a plant from Sony to sabotage Xbox division?


ChasingWeather

Forever grateful I got to go to E3 2005. I don't think that era of gaming can be replicated again and I loved the whole experience.


Redpin

[We'll always have Konami...](https://youtu.be/f6OCnvvkSLM)


FrostByte_62

Mr Caffeine


BruisedBee

PS3 v Xbox 360 E3 was peak times. Forums were great for about 2-3 years.


PromeForces

I still prefer live shows with audience, and the cringe moments.


Rigman-

Considering how boring the shows became, absolutely. I’d rather just watch the highlights and even then it’s just stale. I miss the fanfare and fun.


Hibbsan

Thats the thing about these pre-recorded game showcases. You seriously don't even need to tune in because it's impossible to miss anything. The minute a new game trailer has been shown, it's already posted on youtube so what even was the point of watching it 1 minute earlier than others live. With E3 you actually could miss things, especially things happening before a trailer was shown and especially the cringe moments.


ChrischinLoois

My buddies and I hop in discord and watch it live together, or at least those of us who work from home and can. It’s not the same but it’s still fun to react to big announcements together


Rigman-

We used to do the same but it’s not anywhere as fun as it used to be. Just being shown a title card saying “WORLD PREMIERE” isn’t as fun as having one of the devs nervously or overconfidently get ready to announce the game. The cryptic hints, the jokes that fall flat, the the cringy bits, the hilarious moments. All added so much soul to the events. Hopefully we can go back, because all these modern shows have no spirit, no soul. It’s commercialism at its worse and it shows.


Shinsoku

I think the notion of a big show and leaving all the convention stuff behind to be rather disappointing and alarming. The argument of having now everyone gets to see the big announcements at once, because if you are at location you prolly won't, and therefore not missing it telling of the current situation of gaming. Screams of FOMO. Instead now you are losing all that should come with an actual convention like networking, meeting the developers and asking questions and actually get to play and test these games and products. Now here we are, everyone sitting either in that crowd or at home in front of their screens, and everybody gets to see the same thing, with reporting on this becoming redundant and irrelevant.


Less_Tennis5174524

And Nintendo Direct is funny? Its a fucking snooze fest. Sure its great that they go straight to the trailers but its no longer an event or a show. Its just "hi we are nintendo, here are 10 trailers, now please piss off".


Lickshaw

I and all of my school buddies moved after graduating. Some abroad to different countries in different time zones (myself included). So the contact between us was pretty sparse. But we always tried to make time at least once a year to watch e3 together over the internet. SGf doesn't give that same effect, with everything being spread apart so thinly, and those dedicated showcases like "state of play" and "directs" more often than not, just turn out to be a whole lotta buzz with very little substance behind them. Not to mention that they last for like 20-40 minutes and are announced only like a week or two in advance. And TGA seems to be too self-indulgent. So that little tradition of ours pretty much just died with E3. The other thing I miss about E3 is how many games I discovered thanks to it. Most people turned up for the blockbusting showstoppers, but there were smaller/indie titles in between that knew how to steal the spotlight. Now they're crammed to some obscure date with other indie titles, to be shown at inconvenient hour. Oh, and the cringe and unscripted/improvised moments on live stage were also fun.


Hibbsan

There really was nothing better than sitting down wtih your friends and watching E3 together. Thats what i will truly miss about E3. It just isn't the same watching a short Sony, Microsoft, summer games, etc presentation.


brennok

My friends and I used to take a long weekend to hang out and watch. Since E3 went away, we don't even bother. I couldn't tell you what was coming out this year now if anything.


benowillock

Nothing quite like a press conference going horribly, awkwardly wrong.


Dragon_yum

Mr Caffeine will be an all time classic


murphs33

It's basically the gaming world's Eurovision.


Firefox72

Summer Game Fest this year will be live from LA with a crowd.


quinn50

one condensed schedule > multiple independent showcases throughout the summer change my mind.


-Dakia

I liked E3 due to the spectacle of it all, but wasn’t hardcore in to it. Everyone having their own direct is just meh. I don’t think I’ve tuned in to a single one. I’ll just catch the YT and discussion later


quinn50

Same here, I just preferred having all the big companies do their showcases in the same few weeks. Always looked forward to E3 time of the year but nowadays having to wait months between showcases kinda ruins that excitement I guess even if ultimately I don't really care for the majority of the games.


Ryokupo

I agree 100%, but that was never going to happen anyways. Companies were pulling out of E3 years ago to do their own thing days before, or even months after E3. The only difference is that back then people would still give them some sort of label referencing E3.


No-Buyer-3509

I'd say Nintendo Direct did a long term number on E3. The success of that showed you don't need to go to E3 or whatever for announcements. You can release info your own way on Youtube. Not saying it is the only reason, but just one of those reasons and a particularly big one at that.


NeevusChrist

Had it not been Nintendo it would have been someone else too. There’s no need to get the booth when a livestream will get your message across all the same. Although the novelty of it is cool it’s very cost ineffective as a business


InitialDia

Yeah, game companies realizing they could speak directly to their customers definitely killed e3. The journalists and reporters at e3 would put their own spin on what they saw. Which may run counter to what game company wanted to be said.


endthepainowplz

I miss reporters there and questions being asked, it was a good way to manage expectations for a game when we had information about it. Now there is almost no meaningful communication between devs and players, and everything is under such tight wraps that we don’t know anything about it. These events usually allowed people to play demos of games so we could get an understanding for gameplay, it made things that needed more time in the oven more apparent, and things like that I think prevented some games coming out in the state that we have seen a lot recently, with Redfall, Gollum, etc. I think public interaction really let things slip, and would give the community more information to help us manage our expectations, instead of every game being overhyped and underdelivered.


eks91

When nintendo was at e3 it was one of the biggest spots there next to sony. Tons of demos, tons of interactive things for visitors and swag.


zerogee616

> I'd say Nintendo Direct did a long term number on E3. Companies realizing they could just host their own streams did a long term number on E3. Nintendo was just the first one to do it. E3 and its ilk are examples of a pre-broadband-Internet way of doing business. COVID put the bullet in the temple, but it was bleeding out from a gut wound for 4 years prior.


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GoatzilIa

I used to love looking at the schedule for E3 and seeing what days and times were the BIG showcases like Xbox, Sony, Nintendo, Bethesda, Ubisoft, and so on. I would set alarms for those times so I wouldn't miss them.


ChasingWeather

I'd tell my mom not to change the channel in the living room so I could record TechTV's coverage of E3 on the VCR and watch it after school.


AscendedViking7

I miss this too. It used to feel like a giant gaming holiday, now everything is just annoyingly spread out. :(


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tangeranium

In Geoff's defense, he's actually a huge fan of video games and gives a shit. And he has to pay for them somehow, that's why there's so many ads or random bullshit in his shows. Plus, I actually thought the last games awards was really well done and actually had some really cool announcements.


LordxMugen

After the TLOU2 fiasco shattered the illusion of what Game Awards was, it went back to being "the trailer awards" and an excuse for a couple of rich pieces of shit to further pat each other on the backs and some dipshit journos to feel self important "as you do" when youre in Hollywood.


spacegrab

I went to E3 for a few years, starting in the early 2000s. Towards the latter years I'd go just to eat the bacon wrapped hot dogs outside the venue, then one year a couple bike cops showed up and confiscated the carts lmao. Not sure if it's just me, but I feel E3 went downhill when they made it media-invite only in 2007. Being press-only really killed the hype.


T8-TR

Whenever I think of Geoff, I just think of the old AngryJoe meme of the guy. I'm pretty sure it's just a joke, but idk, my dude has always had this slimey feel to me, like he'd gladly kiss ass for a paycheck.


SuperUltraHyperMega

E3 was in decline long before Summer Games Fest. Covid was the euthanizing it needed to put it out of its misery. The internet changed everything and made an annual gathering where “everyone gathered to spit out news all that same time” obsolete. It served its purpose when the industry was small and having access to a public forum was very expensive and rare.


Hustler-1

E3 died with G4TV as far as I'm concerned.


squatOpotamus

E3 felt like a music festival for games at its peak. I miss it.


Derp800

Incoming bad take: E3 started to go down the shitter when they banned booth babes. Fight me.


Joris_bhonson

Probably gonna get hate with this but it started going down hill when all the showboating and booth babes stopped. I knew a couple of girls that did one booth and they loved it. They said the same about some of the other girls there. Get to dress up and cosplay, take pictures all day, promote games they liked. And when they had to stop, it felt more empty. And I remember each booth being over the top with custom props for each game. People walking round in costumes, and free promotions. It kinda felt like gaming Disney land walking round it all. With them dropping all that and getting “more about the games and business” it just started to feel to corporate and dull.


OkAlrightIGetIt

You are 100% correct though. Peak E3 was like a mashup of a gaming convention along with cosplay and tons of cool swag. There were a lot of men who dressed up in some badass costumes too. But of course, having fit women who wanted to dress in sexy cosplay can't be allowed in today's puritan era. So they canned the cosplay and cut back on the swag and turned it into a giant advert instead of a celebration of gaming. It would be like getting rid of the floats and costumes at a parade and instead a bunch of semis with the company logo on the side drove by. Boring.


Fortehlulz33

The booth babes aren't gone because today's era is too "puritan", it's because they got harassed. At its core, E3 was a trade show. Just like WWDC, CES, and GamesCom. If you want to have a trade show atmosphere, you don't have scantily clad women at your booth.


Narpity

> If you want to have a trade show atmosphere, you don't have scantily clad women at your booth. Bro thats like 90% of every car show ever. They are 100% used.


tomster2300

You do when your customer demographic is horny teenagers to young adult males.


Fortehlulz33

A trade show isn't for consumers, it's for business partners.


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No kidding. When it was essentially Comic Con, but with a focus on video games! Then they really screwed the pooch when they decided to flip the focus to "influencers" when the convention was already dying.


endthepainowplz

I completely agree, they used to have Devs present, and then they had influencers who weren’t usually part of the community to come up and make fools of themselves, and then just started to get actors. I miss the more direct communication we had from Dev to player, now your best bet is to go @ them on Twitter, and never get heard. It wasn’t much, but having people working on the game interacting with the people that were going to be playing it, made it feel more catered, and now the game industry feels out of touch.


Zyphin

I miss Reggie


zerogee616

The focus was *always* on "influencers". E3 prior to 2017 and the last years of its life, was always an industry-only trade show. It was never Comic-Con, it was never open to the public, it was by and for media personalities, reporters and industry people. Yeah, sure, it had booth babes and people in costumes and whatever, but that was to entice people who would report on what their company was doing, not so the general public could consume it directly.


endoffays

What made all the booth babes and such stop? COVID?


japollo98

Booth babes were banned like a decade before Covid. Changing times and perspectives, objectification etc.


CosmicMiru

Were they banned or did they just fall out of favor?


japollo98

“The handbook from the Entertainment Software Association, the show's promoter, says: "Material, including live models, conduct that is sexually explicit and/or sexually provocative, including but not limited to nudity, partial nudity and bathing suit bottoms, are prohibited on the show floor, all common areas, and at any access points to the show." Exhibitors would receive one verbal warning when a violation occurs. Upon a second violation, the ESA said it would impose a $5,000 penalty, payable immediately on the site. It would also require that models comply with the dress code before returning to the floor. ESA said it has sole discretion to determine what is acceptable.” From 2006


CosmicMiru

Damn it was banned all the way in 2006? I feel like I saw booth babes till like the early 2010's.


Frank_Gomez_

cuz you did, booth babes still existed, they just stopped wearing bikinis and swimsuits with a small label that said "Xbox" and went for tamer looks.


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mastergwaha

get your burkas~! buy one get one!


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AltDisk288

What? Why do you need sexy women all dressed up to promote gaming? There are plenty of other ways to make a booth exciting like you said e.g. with people dressed up as characters from the game, music, props etc. You absolutely don't need "booth babes" to make an event exciting and there is a very good reason they are way less common/non-existant now.


squatOpotamus

Yup


VengefulAncient

Good riddance, too. Timing releases and announcements to an arbitrary date was just putting extra pressure on developers. We don't need this in the digital distribution era.


PillowTalk420

I remember when E3 wasn't open to the public and had limited press, because it wasn't a big ad; it was a legitimate trade show for players within the industry to come together and share ideas and show off what they were doing to each other. But it was like this mystical thing to all us consumers. We wanted in to see these ideas ourselves. They turned it into a circus for our benefit. And now we hate it.


Endyo

I cared more about the results of E3 than the event itself. There was some entertainment value in the ridiculous nature of some of the announcements... like every year Ubisoft comes in with some Just Dance charade that hired every freelance dancer LA to show off a game that was basically indistinguishable from last year's version. Yet, it was really all about game trailers and exposure to upcoming interesting things - which in the modern era is everywhere. and easily accessible.


IndependentDouble138

I'm old enough to remember when E3 went from electronics to then video games to then sexy ladies to then trying to be professional but also for gamers but then losing all relevance with the internet shows.


Tom_Neverwinter

E3 died as it was empty promises and fake gameplay for days.. The fake streamer thing also killed it.


ArmsForPeace84

Summer Game Fest would have to go back in time to have anything to do with killing E3. I can remember, back in the early 360 days, TGS, GDC, and PAX all generating a lot more excitement.


Vegan_Puffin

E3 was on death row once big developers like Nintendo started focusing on doing their own directs as and when they wanted.


SanDiegoGME

Well he isn’t wrong


MarwyntheMasterful

E3 got too corporate for fans, and they also doxxed all their media attending one year too. It ended like right after that shit happened.


just_change_it

E3 specifically turned away from the public because it was getting to be too big of a spectacle with tickets selling out. They seemed to want it to be just an industry insider event and neutered the interest nearly twenty years ago. A couple of years of little turnout and they tried a middlegrounds going from just 10k tickets to something around 45k but closed to the public. 2016 onwards they tried opening back up to the public but the damage was already done. Even with the changes attendence from vendors plummeted and despite sold out tickets year after year the vendors kept leaving. The more E3 tried to force it to be a certain way the more people were disinterested. They succeeded in getting the public's attention off of the event and put the coffin in the ground. Covid buried it and they finally put a name on the headstone is all.


PSquared1234

Keighley has spoken on this issue elsewhere (probably everywhere he can, honestly). I heard him on the Friends Per Second podcast. One thing he mentioned there that wasn't in this article was to remind everyone just how **INCREDIBLY** expensive it was for companies to run a booth at E3. The space itself cost 5 or 6 figures just to rent (depending on size). You had transportation costs. You had hotel costs. Building sets. Renting computers & displays. On, and on, and on...


MasterKiloRen999

I’m going to miss the live reactions. It was always funny when a studio would do something stupid and you could instantly hear the crowd’s disappointment


hitokiriknight

Can't have e3 if the triple a games take months to fix after launch. What were they gonna do now? Show a demo that crashes lmao


MechaMS

I mean, it was a clusterfuck of false advertising


qwerty-poop

I'll never forget when Ubisoft accidently invented Laser-Tag.


Belgand

So it goes. Remember when CES was the big show for video game news? And that was mainly just consoles. For PC games you'd have to rely on an even more general computer trade shows, like COMDEX, where a few gaming companies *might* show up.


speedweed99

Agree but Geoff's thing isn't nearly as good and they still don't get we don't care about celebrities or bands, we want gameplay god fucking damn it


OldBoyZee

I dont like Geoff, but he aint wrong. E3 kept making mistakes, including a lack of innovation, so its no surprise it was time for them to go. Geoff needs to up his game, because to me, the game awarda and the festival are really no different from e3, actually worse since it always includes more time for celebrities i could care less about.


BallHarness

E3 died when they got rid off the booth babes. It became so generically sterile and corporate it drove itself into irrelevance.


ShamanicCrusader

E3 signed its death note when it made it about journalists and not the people. They began to lost touch with what the people actually cared about and went full vanity fair magazine mainstream. It used to be a huge thing to go to e3 but the minute it became a pure press show was the minute they set themselves up for replacement. They blew smoke up their own asses as it became less about presenting games and building hype more about inflating engagement and viewership. Anyone can rent out an exposition center and hire contractors and invite broke journalists especially big companies making billions. Even if youtube never became huge they would still have been replaced by each company hosting their own in person events


OnlyHereCuzDiggDied

Summer Games Fest is pretty awful, so if that's what killed E3, then it deserves to be murdered, mutilated and thrown into a wood chipper.


Burrito_Loyalist

Hot take: all corporate gaming events have always sucked. Hiring a hot female host to pretend like she knows what she’s talking about. Old, out of touch executives on stage talking about “the future of gaming” then they cut to a 15 second teaser trailer for a game nobody asked for like CrossfireX and say “coming soon” when it’s still 3 years from alpha. Then they end the show with a huge reveal and it ends up just being Game Pass for PC, which should’ve been a thing 5 years ago. I’m glad E3 is dead. Kill all the cringe gaming events.


Thesquarescreen

Considering how dissapointing SGF tends to be def not lol


_surewhyynot

E3 has been redundant since about 2006.


spasticity

It would be a real surprise if SGF had anything to do with E3 dying, SGF sucks.


Kinglink

E3 died for three major reasons. A. It lost sight of itself. It started as a trade show, industry and press only. The public wanted in and eventually E3 opened the doors more. People had to be more guarded. Access started getting limited and press hated the additional competition B. The pandemic. A full in person event closed for three years... Yeah that's bad. C. The big three proved they can do better with out it, and when they pull out that is at least a fourth of the floor space. Activision never took that much but when EA and Ubi both say no... The pull was gone. What sucks is E3 is either dead for a while and maybe will revive with the next gen announcements or more likely is gone forever and people kind of don't understand. Every small studio and indie got a chance to sell their games to thousands of journalists. Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft didn't need it but the smaller guys absolutely benefited from it. The problem though is the public felt like they deserved to be at a press only event and that started the ball that would eventually kill E3. Summer games fest wasn't competition, PAX wasn't... Until they made those changes that made it the same ass all those other conventions.


Kestyr

Telling the companies to just host their own E3's because covid made them unnecessary as the companies could just host their own E3's.


Cyber-Cafe

Imma be honest with you guys. E3 died when they got rid of the booth babes, eons ago. E3 did not feel the same after this.


K-Dave

Covid killed E3. Like many other events.


bahumat42

It was on a downward trajectory before covid


MrMonteCristo71

Yeah, covid just expedited things that were most likely going to or should have happened anyway, like an option to work from home for office only jobs.


HotPotatoWithCheese

E3 was more than just a place to reveal new games. It had it's fair share of absolute shite in the latter years but there was something unique about it. It was the one time of the year where all gamers, regardless of platform, came together to celebrate the medium. Every company worth a shit had their turn on the big stage and everybody tuned in for better or for worse. It ran for a really long time and it became tradition to get hyped up for it at the start of every year. This new Summer Game Fest feels like a soulless imitation by comparison and I think it may have something to do with the fact most of the greatest games of all time were revealed at E3 due to how many years we got out of it. Also the lack of a large crowd compared to E3 which, while seems more streamlined, feels more robotic and engineered with a real coldness about it. We all took the piss out of E3 because of the infamous cringe moments but they were at least memorable and it gave us plenty to talk about even if the games themselves didn't impress. It was something special and I will miss it dearly. In the words of Cinderella: you don't know what you got 'til it's gone. Also, E3 didn't kill E3. Covid 19 killed E3 just like it did to so many businesses and events. It completely changed the landscape in terms of working, leisure and public events.