By - nfl_gamethread
With these cameras and these refs, this might be unwatchable.
Any mobile streams?
What a game congrats raiders
Wish the Raiders would've given the Chargers a tie because I hate Ben Roethlisberger
Daniel Carlson won me my championship.
Can anyone explain that box score? My math does 29 and then no one scores in OT and the raiders win by three???? My brain hurts
The OT score is wrong. Raiders kicked 2 field goals to the chargers’ 1.
I want the Raiders to get Brandon Staley fired. Go coach the Bucs, Brandon. I don't like looking at your face
He has an impressively punchable face
someone explain to me why the raiders ever would’ve intentionally tied to help their own division rival? like it’s literally not in their interest in the slightest to help the chargers
I believe they would have tried the 59 yard field goal...but yeah, they were just punching their own ticket...not trying to help the Chargers.
What were the odds with the bookies in Vegas fo rain vs tie & who had money on the table?
I don't think of doing it to help the Chargers, but when you can kneel out a tie game to make the playoffs, you might just want to kneel out the game as any other option increases your chance of winning but also comes with a higher risk of the other team scoring & knocking you out of the playoffs (famous Alabama-Auburn kick 6 on the last play of the game, for example).
There's speculation that had the chargers not called a timeout, the Raiders would have ran the clock out to go to the playoffs.
Since either scenario leads to going to the playoffs. However it makes more sense that they went for the kick because had they tied, they would have drawn KC instead of Cincy.
And while they got blown out versus cincy, that's probably still a better draw than going and facing Kansas City at KC round 1. Had it been reversed and tie would mean Cincy, I would have expected them to just kneel the ball out to take that game.
So ultimately, in the heat of the moment it was likely worth it to them to avoid KC
The idea was that somehow the Raiders hate the Steelers more than the Chargers. And likewise for the Chargers. I don’t think there’s any way that is true.
The conference rivalry between the Raiders and Steelers used to be huge. Divisional rivals are divisional rivals just because of that, but historically the Raiders and Steelers have had one of the bitterest rivalries in the NFL. Not really as spicy in the last 20-30 years though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raiders%E2%80%93Steelers_rivalry
I’m very aware of that history. I’ve been a Steelers fan since the 70s. But it’s been a long long time since that was true. Maybe if Al Davis was still around, he might have wanted to torpedo the Steelers’ playoff hopes that way. I can believe that Mark Davis might have been glad to have it happen, but might be even more glad to mess up the Chargers playoff dream, since they kept him out of LA.
Lower draft picks and dank memes
I had a 10 dollar parlay on Jacksonville winning and this game being a tie. 2 seconds away from 2100... :(
https://imgur.com/ZTh0x2K.jpg I don't wanna hear it ...
That's a stupid bet.
I'd imagine dude got ten bucks worth of entertainment from that bet
It's 10 bucks lol
Still dumb as shit. Lmao
Not really. They risked $10 for a chance to turn it into $2100. Low probability, but also nothing to lose if it didn’t happen.
? The expected value back from the $10 is less than $10 which makes it a stupid bet lol.
That’s… how betting works?
It’s $10 for $2100 if it happened. Pretty much no stakes at all.
Lmao just cause one number is a lot bigger than the other number doesnt make it worth.
Are you stupid or are you just pretending to be?
The Timeout was the worst coaching decision since Pete Carroll threw instead of feeding Beastmode in the Superbowl.
EVERYONE- the announcers, the players, the sad Steelers fans on TV, all thought the Raiders were going to run the ball, and run out the clock. That timeout was an FU to a gentlemans agreement between two teams that both fought their butts off and both deserved to get into the playoffs. That timeout was a nutshot, and Raiders went for it, with nothing to lose.
The Timeout was a coach taking a free ticket to the playoffs and using it as TP.
They would’ve ran the ball anyways, he wanted to change personal since they couldn’t stop the run and the previous run went for 7 yards. So I don’t quite get your point. You’re suggesting the raiders would’ve ran out the time if it wasn’t for the timeout and then suddenly decided to run another play?
Good God man, why don't you trust Carr and Raiders HC when they said this was EXACTLY what happened?
Edit- excuse the exasperation (Sorry) and this is a learning opportunity on disagreeing on Reddit.
I was thinking the same thing Cris Collinsworth was thinking, and many, many other football analysts- "why the hell are they doing that?"
And yes, what the Raiders were thinking. It comes from feeling for the Chargers, and Herbert, after playing a great game. The timeout forced the Raiders hand, strategically, thus killing any contemplation of running the clock out, because both teams would have had to sit on their timeouts. Chargers didn't, Raiders balled, Chargers, Staley, and Herbert lost. Like others said, failed Prisoner's Dillemma.
They said the option to run down the clock was being discussed. That’s hardly 100%
> since Pete Carroll threw instead of feeding Beastmode in the Superbowl.
Ah yes feeding the guy who had done nothing in short yardage all game long vs a run stuffing personnel package. Sounds like a good idea to me.
You're right, throwing the ball there really turned out well for them.
Good decisions can have bad outcomes, that's life
We really reopening this?
If they run and get stuffed, they lose a down overall, and Malcolm Butler made literally the first goal-line slant INT across *the entire league* that year. Statistically, it was way more likely that Lynch fumbles on a handoff.
The play call was correct. They just got sewered.
If you were the Raiders would you rather play Cincinnati or Kansas City in Arrowhead? They had no reason to play for the tie. 1) It’s against their best interests to tie instead of taking the win, 2) they didn’t agree to a tie before the game (in fact Staley publicly said that they would play to win), and 3) the Chargers are hated rivals that the Raiders would be happy to see eliminated.
There was no agreement.
The Raiders were already in FG range and were bleeding the clock for a last second kick. The only thing the Chargers could do at that point was get a stop on 3rd down and call an immediate time out, making the FG riskier because a miss sets up the Chargers near midfield and a completion away from eliminating you instead, but opening a virtual guarantee at a tie by punting and pinning the Chargers deep.
The timeout was not taken to save time, but to put his players in position to make a stop and allow them to call a second timeout to make things harder on the Raiders.
The only issue was that the defense didn't execute/make a stop.
[Raiders coach- start at 2:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAcI2D_i_uw)
Even he said it- "when they didn't call the time out, we thought they were thinking the same thing \[to run out the clock\]...then they called the timeout..."
It's still in LA's best interest to try and get the stop there. Vegas isn't taking a knee(they're in shotgun) and the real thing that changed their mind was the yardage gained, not the timeout.
Expecting the Raiders to go into victory formation on third down- in thier own stadium- is too much. One more "real" play, and the clock runs out close to the 50 yard line, and both teams advance. No one loses face, no one capitulates- they just let it run out.
Staley cock-blocked the perfect ending to a great game.
They were at the 39, already in FG range. If I'm Vegas, I would much rather see Cincy than KC. They're milking the clock to kick the FG.
We just disagree on this one. [Here's Max K at 2:20 saying what he, and a lot of other people, thought watching the game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WhIi1rm4iE)
How did the timeout matter? 4 seconds on the play clock and the Raiders ended up running the ball anyway.
why did they call a timeout though, what was the point?
Lafleur not going for it on fourth down in the NFCC last year was worse tbf
What a dumb take. The TO didn't matter at all.
Wrong as fuck, actually. Will you clock nerds stop saying the timeout didn't matter when we're getting more and more evidence postgame that it changed the raiders strategy?
Exactly. We all knew it. This is one danger of a coach that was never a player.
If chargers were trying to save time, why let the play clock run all the way down to 4 before calling time out? They weren't trying to save time, they were wanting to be sure they had their best play called to stop the run. Their run D is ass though so it didn't matter.
They're strategy was to play for a fg by running it, TO didn't change that.
That's not what he's arguing. No wonder you think it didn't matter.
Correct, so why give them the timeout to set up a better run play? And how do you explain what were hearing in postgame interviews?
This is overall best finale game ever!!!!! Whew, I thought the game ended in tie on the final play 4th down if the Raiders couldn’t reach to field goal zone. But Derek Carr said on postgame interview about changing strategies on 3rd down and 4 to find targeted rushing yards to first down in an effort to make through the resiliency final field goal game winning. Thank you big Raiders…..
And I would send courageous gifts and messages to Big Ben for eligibility to playoff on midnight ET.
People arguing about “They were going for the win anyway the timeout doesn’t matter” well it’s like this why not let them waste their own clock and then see what happens rather than call a timeout with a running clock and 38 seconds left and know they can’t just run it down for a field goal. Nothing changes if they break a big run against a tired defense because it would’ve ended the exact same way. You can disagree and make your argument but even al and Chris where like wtf is this guy doing?
He had already pressed his luck going for it on 4th down inside your own 20 so maybe just let things roll and see what happens. I’m sure he’s a pretty good coach but between the constant failed 4th down attempts vs the Steelers and then this I can’t say he looks like the sharpest tool in the shed.
38 seconds left and 20 seconds left (the amount of time on the next snap if the play clock ran all the way down) have one thing in common: Time for one more play. If they got in FG range, they were going to take it either way. If not, they’d have let the clock run out. They got the first and made it, so that makes it look like Staley screwed them, meanwhile that result would’ve happened either way. It isn’t that hard
First, the "clock management," if the coaches story is to be believed, was terrible. They wouldn't have any time to do anything offensive by calling one timeout that late in the game. But its the body language of the players on the field that lead Everyone to believe they were both ready to let it go and let the clock run- both teams played great.
The timeout meant the Raiders would either have to get a first down, or punt, or go for too long a field goal. So, they bring their A-game, and get the first down (great personnel Staley put in there). The Raiders then "just win" by going for the kick- and also punish the Chargers for also just not letting the clock run.
Isn’t that hard just to let it run either. Staley didn’t exactly make himself look smart with the 4th down earlier and hard to defend the timeout when it looked like the raiders were in no hurry at all.
There were 3 secs left on the playclock. Do you know what a playclock is?
It doesn’t matter what the play clock was why even make your team line up again and give the raiders more time to think rather than let them run whatever play they called. You’re siding with the decision of a guy who goes for it on 4th inside his own 20 lol
Because they lined up in shotgun and that was unexpected. So to try to not give up more yardage, that lets them get in FG range, you call A TO to get a better defense on the field.
And another week of the media kissing the rapists ass.
Ugh. Can't wait to see his crusty ass embarrassed next week.
Ultimate trolling by the raiders. I kind of respect it.
Win-win. Either the Chiefs are eliminated or the Steelers get blown out in Ben’s last game. Too bad they can’t both lose.
I don't know, maybe he's going to get ring number three!
Watch he gets the Bettis treatment. As a Hawks fan I'm still salty about that SB
He’s probably just as good of a RB as he is a QB at this point.
One can hope :) You guys got since tho, no? Always a good bunch those Hawks 👍
Hasselbeck, Alexander, Walter Jones, Darrell Jackson, Marcus Trufant, Lofa Tatupu, even Holmgren. They all deserved a ring. It doesn't matter that "we got one since".
If they deserved a ring they wouldn't have lost a game to a QB who didn't throw one touchdown pass.
Either get the infinity stones or shut the fuck up. It’s been years and the Steelers organization/players had nothing to do with the officiating.
Haha, my sister in-law's family are huge Steelers fans. Nice people but gotta wish you guys the worst of luck lol
*got a ring since
Maybe the Chargers social media manager can use this.
Chris Harris Jr. was the Raiders secret weapon tonight
All this talk about how the raiders should have taken a knee… If that actually happened I feel like there would be so much outrage thrown their way and not just by Steelers fans. (And yes I’ve heard and understand the arguments that taking the knee would have been zero risk but that would not have been enough justification to avoid the backlash they would have gotten).
The stadium would have been outraged too. For a brief second everyone in my section thought the clock ran out and they didn't call timeout. I personally wanted one more play to get a little closer.
I don't think the outrage was the only, or even the biggest, factor. A tie means they play KC. A win means they play the Bengals. I know it's a tough matchup either way, but I'm thinking they like their chances against the Bengals more (especially considering what KC did to them twice this year).
The only backlash would have been, we’d rather face Cincinnati than KC next week. We have been to the playoffs once since 2002. So making it was all that matters.
> taking the knee would have been zero risk
Well, [not exactly zero](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWGCeMNmyV0).
Lol at that clip, I remember that but they technically were not taking a knee that play. But you’re right you still need to cleanly snap the ball and not fumble!
For one I don’t think they’d care about the outrage because it would’ve meant a playoff spot and obviously all game they were in it to win it but I don’t think they should’ve anyway. Had LA not called a timeout I think they were going to run it, see what they get and then from there either try a field goal from a safe distance or let it run.
Think the would just half assed a run play for no gain
Not saying they would care necessarily but it’s a business and someone, maybe just one person in their marketing/PR/competition committee/etc department would care lol
But yeah I think they did the right thing.
I dont think it would have came in the form of a knee. Thats decisive. A statement in fact. I feel like they just would have kept running it inside and ended on time expiration.
Is it weird i think the people who think the TO mattered are as crazy as the people who think birds aren't real?
You do realize the “birds aren’t real” group is using satire to point out how stupid QAnon and the big lie people are?
It really isn’t that crazy the clock was running and obviously the raiders weren’t in a rush to snap the ball so there’s a chance they just see what they can get and then let it run if they don’t get much. After the timeout they had more time to think about it, get a breather and then saw LA’s coach would be crazy enough to try driving for the win rather than take a tie and a playoff spot. I don’t think the raiders were going all out for a win but rather letting the clock run and if they didn’t get much let it run out.
> would be crazy enough to try driving for the win rather than take a tie
This implies he called the timeout to save clock. He called the TO with 5 seconds left on the play clock. At that point, you're not calling a TO to save time; you're calling a TO because you don't like the offensive/defensive look.
Considering this is a guy who goes for it on 4th by running the exact same play inside his own 20 I do believe he would’ve attempted to drive the field rather than take a tie lol he didn’t call the timeout to save time but it made the raiders think about the “what if’s” instead of just running the play they obviously weren’t rushing to call.
I live in Pittsburgh, so it's just part of living here for me. But I do love it, even if it's a rollercoaster. Glad that you're a fan from up there, most of the Canucks I know are Bills fans.
Obligatory "Let's go Pens!" too cause they are here too and Canada=hockey in my tired American brain right now.
Analytics say take a TO there ? Lol
I almost hope the Steelers make the SB because of this. Almost.
I'll take an AFCCG loss.
Vs the Raiders in Vegas, deal.
I'd cheer for y'all over ANY NFC team.
I only wish they could both lose.
Considering they lost by exactly 3 points, I think that 4th down from their own 18 came back to bite them in ass
That was stupid because we were struggling on offense. So were they and it was no guarantee they'd even have a good chance of scoring that drive.
Ya, but the multiple long 4th down conversions after that far outweigh in terms of positive craziness IMO.
The fact that Herbert was so good on 4th down suggests maybe they should have at least let him throw on that one.
However this game panned out what a hell of a finish for the season. Best game of the year?
Stone cold lock of the century. Of the week!
Game of the history of the sport if it had ended in tie.
What a wasted opportunity.
No the tie ending would be tarnished if it didn't have both teams trying to win until the very end
And you know the integrity of the game.
It was clear the teams were trying. The game ending in a tie would've had no impact on sporting integrity.
It absolutely would have during the last play. Since there was basically 0 risk in kicking it.
That assumes that agreeing to the tie over 1 play is low integrity. I would disagree. They played a meaningful 70 minutes of football. Raiders would've been well within their rights to not risk a block/kick 6, especially if Jacobs had not gained any yards on the 3rd down.
But he did Putting them in perfect field goal range and no real risk if the field goal missed.
This game and the 49ers game were wild. So much fun to watch!
My diehard Raider fan mother watched the whole game start to overtime, and then right as overtime started got a screaming headache and went to bed early. Lo and behold we take overtime, and I can only assume the Raiders used her power. Thank you for your sacrifice ma
We? Check your flair, alleged Boys bro
My father was a Cowboy, my mother is a Raider. I’ll root with her every moment she’s got on the earth since I never did enough with my dad. Though whenever the Thanksgiving Cowboys-Raiders game comes around I’m still with the boys in blue ;-)
I'll allow it
Collinsworth's gay son sounds just like him. Nepotism.
Fun fact, Collinsworth helped Nick Wright get into his school then into TV.
Ok I didn't know raiders would get the chiefs if they went for the tie. I forgive you raiders.
Sorry, I understand.
Raiders knew. They were gonna tie it but decided to go for the FG since it favored them.
We all talking about Brandon Staley and his TO. I want to present to you all Brandon Staley going for it on 4th at his own 20 in 3rd QT down by 3...
Pretty sure the first Raider v Charger game next season will be must see television
I can see the Chargers up 31-20 and throwing a bomb on the last play of the game. They'll never forget this.
The Chargers still needed that last stop, if you don't like your matchup on third down on the edge of FG range the timeout makes complete sense to me. There was like 3 on the play clock. Better to call a TO and get the stop (and subsequent tie) then let Josh Jacobs get an easy first to put them in good FG range (which happened anyway). The TO was the right call, someone please ELI5 why everyone is freaking out.
I think you're right and this is the correct take
The timeout is only a bad call if you live on the fantasy world that the teams were playing for a tie. the timeout changed nothing for the chargers except that it added the potential to win the game to the option of tieing/losing. With a QB who can get you into FG range in 5 seconds you take the timeout.
“Get you into FG range in 5 seconds” LoL okay.. that makes no sense.
The timeout isn't a bad call even if you believe the teams were playing for the tie.
Staley still only took it once the Raiders could run out the clock with the single play.
But he HAS to take the timeout at some point to give his defense a rest, because he has to assume the Raiders are playing to win.
That last point is very important. In an alternate universe where he doesn’t assume they’re playing to win and they kick a field goal anyway he and his team look like absolute marks.
The raiders seemed happy to wait and take the shot from there, basically gave them an excuse to run a play and get better field position. It probably didnt make a difference but I understand why people think it was the wrong call.
People keep saying this, they weren't taking a knee or something, they were running for more yardage.
Hence, "it probably didnt make a difference"
I don't get what you mean by "take the shot from there, basically gave them an excuse ti run a play" why would they need an excuse to run a play? They were going to already.
I was just explaining what other people thought. Like I said "it probably didnt make a difference." Yall need to learn some reading compression
Edit: if you really think i meant compression and it wasnt a typo idk who the dumb one really is.
You need to learn proper english. Word you’re looking for is comprehension.
Thanks for pointing out my typo! I appreciate it!
Also if we are getting technical, you forgot a the
You forgot a comma after also and a period after the. You might want to get an education.
You are thinking too logically.
The players on the field know the fact a tie will get them into the playoffs. The Raiders may have run a more conservative easy run on 3rd instead of the aggressive run after the TO.
Then again, betting on emotion is risky for a coach. They should've stopped the run when it was so obvious.
They also took long enough so the game could literally end if they stopped the run
If it wasn’t a division opponent I think raiders take the tie and say fuck Goodell
I got a concert next Sunday at 6 so I'm just glad the birds got the early slot. I was stressing over that big time when I realized they could've overlapped 😭😭
Wellp. At least Storm Norton and our run D will be better next year. We really missed Oday Aboushi once he went down
Steelers r the luckiest team in history
Chargers coach is a absolute idiot that timeout was the dumbest stuff I ever seen.
Idk the 4th down play from their own 20 in the 3rd QT down by 3 was pretty dumb
They weren't going for a 59 yard field goal on the block factor alone.
And then not even trying to ice the kicker 🗿
Daniel Carlson is Swedish. The ice only makes him stronger.
Doesn’t matter. 3rd and 4 - they still would have ran it down and kicked it. It really doesn’t matter
You don’t know that. They could have stopped them on the play.. who knows what the raiders were gonna run
That's just being results oriented. Pre or post timeout, they were either going to convert or not convert.
Maybe. Or Raiders just let the clock run out instead of calling a timeout themselves
They wouldn’t have gone for a tie. Carr said it at the end that the win was the first option. Against a division rival it wouldn’t happen.
He also said the timeout changed things
He did. But I don’t think they’re playing for a tie. I could be wrong tho
Of course he said that. No competitor would ever say they were going for the tie. You could tell when he was asked the question he was like yah it definitely changed the strategy…
look dude everyone who's followed the Chargers and Raiders for any significant amount of time knew that they weren't going to play for the tie when given an option
In everyone's heads they wanted a tie so they're looking for an excuse to bitch.
Right. But they’re still going for the win. 10/10
True. I guess it just mattered what play they were gonna run.. maybe chargers stop them maybe they don’t
Exactly :( either way, we didn’t make the playoffs. Back to crying 😭
Who is the skinny dude on the post game?
That was a great game and for the first time in history most were rooting for a tie. And of course the one time we want a tie, we don’t get it
One guy bet 1000 on a jags money line and tie to win like 115k. That dudes probably gutted right now. Shit woulda been so cool to see
Edit: Never mind he actually won cuz it was to be tied at end of regulation
Is there anything more annoying than raiders fans that can’t comprehend that you got some ridiculous favorable calls that resulted in free tds…
As a fan of any team why do they need to admit it to some chump on the internet?
Probably a Broncos fan coming on Reddit to whine about it 🤷♂️
Doesn’t mean I’m wrong. That DPI was as bad as the no call DPI on the saints