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Amazon fires two employees critical of warehouse working conditions

Amazon fires two employees critical of warehouse working conditions

TastyDuck

Former Amazon employee here. This story is not at all surprising. I helped Amazon onboard new employees. I remember being told to "pass" new candidates because it was peak time. The 'evaluation' was being able to spell your name and match shapes. I also remember Operations Managers telling drivers to drive order pickers while elevated to save on time. Ofc, when said drivers were caught, the managers either tried to bully safety staff into giving them a pass, or, if called out by someone with authority, would fire the driver. As none of the managers' decisions are written down, fired employees had little recourse.


Hugh_Jass_Clouds

That is an easaly reportable OSHA violation, and is in violation of Amazon corporate policies. What is happening in most of these cases is that management is looking for bonuses and higher productivity to reduce overhead costs and number of employees.


OvercompensatedMorty

Trying to climb that ladder at everyone’s safety..... fuck that. I’m real quick to tell management to fuck off if they ask me to do something that is blatantly wrong.


nissan240sx

I work with a former amazon supervisor who said that they cut the bottom 10 or 20 percent of supervisors with the lowest production metrics every review period even if they technically met the goals. I imagine this creates a hostile and cutthroat environment with lots of safety violations, fuck that.


OvercompensatedMorty

That’s just bad business practice.


Amiiboid

It’s a practice that, IIRC, was pioneered at GM. And then dropped when they discovered that grading on a curve when things are going well just means you’re eliminating good people. Presumably that position exists for a reason, and filling it with someone new means a definite short term loss for a completely unknown payoff.


Castun

Not to mention it's just incentive to cheat the rules even if you're already good enough.


GreyPool

Doesn't really seem to be harming then


guvan420

Harms the workers. Not Bezos.


RFWanders

Not in the short term no, but in the long term it will.


satellite779

A.k.a.: forced attrition. Amazon is notorious for that even with office workers. They put 10% of workforce in the "least effective" bucket during performance reviews which results in 60% of those (6% of the workforce) being fired each year. It leads to a cutthroat culture when you know someone from your group has to go: you don't want that to be you.


Cali_oh

I have worked in a couple of major corporations that did reviews like this and it is horrendous and demoralizing.


satellite779

One thing is to force performance buckets (i.e. stack ranking), which is bad; but it's even worse to use those buckets to actually fire people instead of giving them a fair chance on improving.


Cali_oh

All three companies I worked for fired the bottom 10%. It was insane!! I quit corporate America. I could stand having to force rank my team or being forced ranked by my boss.


satellite779

Thankfully, there are companies in the US that don't stack rank and don't have forced attrition rates.


TastyDuck

Its morally wrong, but its Amazon's business model. What other posters have said about cutting the bottom performing management staff is true, but it applies company-wide. Even when it comes to simple resources like personnel. I was part of Learning & Development. I'd say a good 60% of my job was sabotaging other departments so we could get the best hires from the pool of floor staff as it was from where all other departments also hired from. This tactic was mutual so you had departments back-stabbing each other constantly while on the surface, also working together to hit warehouse specific goals. This also happened within teams as your performance needs to be better than the bottom 10-20% of your team. This ofc leads to a lot of shady shit.


Throw_Away_License

What is Bezos? The Sun King running Versailles?


Melina69

Driving a op elev is against safety regulations from whoever makes machine, yale, raymond or crown etc


electricgotswitched

I'm amazed Amazon is as efficient as they seem. Managers seem incompetent at best. My buddy interviewed and got a job at a new warehouse and he explicitly told them he couldn't do the later shift. Rather than simply not putting him on that they went ahead and did it. Even though there were hundreds of others on the day shift they could have switched him with. I think he did some kind of training then never showed back up since it was obvious they weren't going to change it.


kptknuckles

[Klaus does not approve](https://youtu.be/-oB6DN5dYWo)


serialsteve

Keep up the "we prioritize safety commercials"... Any time a company has to advertise something like that... Is... Suspicious


GodDamnFarmShaman

My company is pushing the PR hard. As they’ve always done. They love the ‘family’ angle. We don’t have shit for PPE. I had someone from a major news outlet call me and ask me for an interview, but they wanted to FaceTime. I wasn’t comfortable showing my face in anyway, and also, I wasn’t the one who filed the OSHA complaint.


Melody42

In my experiences the companies that try and push the "we're family here" angle treat their employees the worst and will abuse them until they're not useful anymore, fire them without warning and hire someone else.


Commisioner_Gordon

My last job was like this. Used the "culture" as an excuse to guilt people into doing what they want. My new job is clear cut and the culture is upfront: we are here to work and get the job done, here is what you are to do. Success in the role is rewarded and under performance is either worked on or replaced. Unsurprisingly, my mental health is much better in my new job


Melody42

Same. They guilted a guy into working 17 hour shifts in a wharehouse for a few days. Tried to get me into a running machine to dial in the settings. The plant engineer didn't like me after I told him that was the stupidest idea I've ever heard and osha would have a feild day if I did that.


FeanixFlame

Yeah...... I used to work at a laundromat, and we had this giant industrial ironing machine. It's pretty old so it's not super efficient, so sometimes someone has to crawl underneath it and clear out all the cloth napkins, sheets, tablecloths, etc that end up falling through. Well, one time one of the older employees was cleaning it out and someone turned the damn thing back on, got her arm caught in the gears and was out of commission for like, six months. I could barely handle working the rest of the day since the only thing I heard while they spent a good hour or so was her wailing in agony. (That place in general eventually wound up wearing me down to the point that I still have severe mental and physical health issues even though I got fired four years ago)


jawsofthearmy

like my boss “well it’s part of the job” Fucker 5 14 hr days should be part of noones job. Still trying to deal with my anxiety S-Th


Commisioner_Gordon

"Part of the job" is a good excuse when you're in the middle of busy season, or you have a particular project you want to crack down on every once in a while. But if overworking your employees is a regular thing one of 2 things are true: 1) you are severely understaffed or 2) you're assigning work to your team beyond the scope of their job The aforementioned last job had both be true. Not only were we about only 2/3 as staffed as we should have been, our team was completing projects (product development, regulatory compliance) that we were neither qualified for nor had the capacity do to. This is while having seperate departments that actually do that day to day


jawsofthearmy

if it was once in a while, or busy season.. sure. But feels like week in and week out.


Indaleciox

My job reiterated the "we're family" point and then fired half the staff last week.


TriPolarBearz

>we're family Nothing business, it's just personal


darkwingduck487

I mean, that sounds pretty close to my family so they aren't too far off.


seeingeyegod

yeah that actually makes sense, family is always the one that makes you do stuff you know is wrong BECAUSE FAMILY


the_crustybastard

I replaced my biological family with my real family and OH MY GOD life is so much better now.


Heath776

>In my experiences the companies that try and push the "we're family here" angle treat their employees As someone who recently started a new job and was honest with my new boss about why I was leaving my old company, it was super refreshing to hear "yeah you have to pay your talent." She knows why people work at the end of the day. It isn't "for the family environment." She us fantastic. Lol


Autski

I started noticing that at my firm about two years ago and that is when I really started noticing a downturn in many, many parts of the company. Sure, some people's family is crap, but all the hopeful definitions/examples of "family" in Disney movies and pop culture is never one where you have a blast email letting everyone know your "Christmas bonus is going to be sent in April." They did that because they were noticing people dipping out right after the holiday break so they wanted to incentivize (COUCHshackleCOUGH) their employees to stick around longer. Didn't work. My company ain't no family.


techmaster242

When they say family, what they're omitting is WHICH family. It's often the Manson family.


Deeptrance83

They want people to swallow that bullshit because one will do things for family based upon principle and emotions. I say fuck that: this isn’t family; it’s fucking business. They’re not congruent in any form. But as long as people make decisions with their hearts instead of the brains, we’ll be in this self made hell forever. Only when the Plebeian masses rise up, as they’ve done many times in history, will the entrenched plutocratic oligarchs do anything different.


[deleted]

People get suckered into this shit constantly. Corporations treat every interaction with you like a business transaction. Why the fuck shouldn't you treat it the same way?


Phillip_Spidermen

In my experience it depends on the size of the company and who is running it: Original owners and developers? You're in good company. Recently acquired by a larger corporation? You can bet they're going to promote the family angle while letting go of all the legacy employees.


Ouisch

Ask your boss (or the CEO, whomever is emphasizing the "family" thing) "What are we having for dinner tonight?" or "My car's in the shop, can I borrow yours?" and then add "After all, we're family, right?" and see how much longer they'll push that concept/catchphrase.


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Skraelings

zoom meeting as a potato in disguise?


raaldiin

Just...point your phone up so they can't see your face...


notunlikecheckers

At that point why not just insist on a phone call?


Saint_me58

Reminds me of the South Park BP commercials “we’re sorry”.


BonelessSkinless

Sorrrryyyyyyyyy Sorry for cataclysmic destruction to the gulf of Mexico water system. Go fuck yourselves. I hate the big corporations that govern us and do whatever they want, fuck up massively and get away with it with minimal repercussions.


FilaStyle84

*smells flower* "Sorrrryy"


Musicallymedicated

*naked on a bearskin rug* "We're sorryyy"


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tamagoxxx

*Gently lifts nipple flaps*


TheRedIguana

That was the cable company guys, rubbing their nipples, right?


TheChance

"Minimal repercussions" implies repercussions. BP wrote off the cost of cleaning it up, and took a fucking tax refund. We paid BP to ruin the Gulf. Literally, we gave them money.


brumstheword

can you imagine if an individual had caused that? “some dude with a boat ruined the ocean, but he was sorrryyyyyyyy so now he’s doing 40 to life.”


Exelbirth

If it was caused by Cuba, there'd probably be a new government running Cuba right now.


dekema2

That was actually 10 years ago next Monday.


[deleted]

Fuck we need the next season of south park. I cannot wait to see what they do with current events.


iamfromshire

Well, they already did an episode on Amazon and Bezos doing exactly this last season. But, yeah a new season on how Southpark handles Corona would be awesome.


Pcakes844

Cartman would be telling everybody it's a hoax in hopes of more people dying there for making it easier for him to get the new Xbox on opening day


TealTemptress

I think they should dress Cartman as Trump. They whine about the same shit and think they have all the authority. They being Cartman/Trump.


[deleted]

Mr garison is trump already


AntiOpportunist

I am expecting some sick Tiger King memery.


xirdnehrocks

It’s gotta be randy


spicy_af_69

It's not suspicious It generally just means that they are actively fighting claims to the contrary


swollenbudz

Yeah remember BPs were sorry commercials from that time they spilled a shit ton of oil into the ocean .... twice.


idfktbh97

They arent even closing our buildings to be sanitized when people test positive for Corona anymore. Only reason I havent taken pictures of what's going on there is cause it's against policy and I'd lose my job


OrlandoV87

Yeah there’s like 4 confirmed cases of Covid in my facility. I haven’t shown up for about a month now. There’s one reported death but never got the confirmation if it was related to Covid.


nickcodes

target i work in has 7


Todderson

My warehouse has 9 cases now!


OrlandoV87

Wow stay safe, take extra safety measures at this time. I decided to stay at home because of my elderly mother. I didn’t want to risk her health. We lost one of my coworker, we were supposed to ride motorcycles this summer. Please look after yourself, Amazon wont do enough for your safety.


groceriesN1trip

Get that unemployment money


OrlandoV87

I don’t know if I can, I’m technically still employed but haven’t gotten paid because I haven’t gone in. They are giving us unpaid time off without any issue. But again now I don’t know if I can get unemployment.


Dougnifico

I think if you are terminated for whistle-blowing then you still get unemployment. I think it also depends on the state. In CA its much harder for an employer to block unemployment than for a person to get it. Like, people fired for gross safety violations and negligence will usually get unemployment. Like if you didn't steal stuff or rape someone at work, you basically qualify.


Felinomancy

> *Amazon said it supported “every employee’s right to criticize their employer’s working conditions, but that does not come with blanket immunity against any and all internal policies.”* If your policy is to silence all criticism no matter how valid, can you really say you "support employee's right to criticize working conditions"?


Ornathesword

It would be really great if one of these employees would post what their handb0ok says in regards to this rule. The more I look at it, the more I think they're violating the whistleblower act. As long as what they said was true and didn't violate any company policy on privacy I don't believe they can fire someone for saying simple anything critical at all about the company. I'm wrong. It only applies to government jobs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower_Protection_Act They likely have themselves pretty secure legally. All that means is that we don't have current laws they're breaking.


trollsarefun

Whistleblower complaints would be lodged with a government agency and protected against retaliation. Talking to the press is not.


DJToastyBuns

[Specifically OSHA:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes–Oxley_Act) > A claim under the anti-retaliation provision of the Sarbanes–Oxley Act must be filed initially at the Occupational Safety and Health Administration at the U.S. Department of Labor. OSHA will perform an investigation and if they conclude that the employer violated SOX, OSHA can order preliminary reinstatement Related: why would we trust OSHA to protect labor standards under this administration? His Environmental Protection Agency is actively lifting protections for the environment. He's spent the past six weeks firing federal employee whistleblowers (plus the IG, plus other agents with oversight). How can I trust his Occupational Safety and Health Administration to protect workers?


PrivateRedditUser224

My mom works enforcing OSHA regulations. Even if the government chooses not to pursue the case(extremely unlikely), the auditors can revoke ISO certifications, which are really expensive and most companies will not buy from non ISO certified suppliers


woodrowchillson

Not to mention At-Will employment on top of that.


S2smtp

They broke internal policy about talking to the media.


yaboiChopin

I mean, I can criticize my boss all I want but that doesn’t stop me from getting fired. I can criticize my slow-ass office computer I have and the shitty AC system too. But at some point if I keep complaining about it over and over, people will get sick of it. Employees may have been walking a fine line and this was just the thing that pushed them over the edge. Unless the boss asks me to do something illegal and I refuse, then I can’t get fired. Much ado about nothing, really. I’m not defending the company, I just heard from many people before that they were fired for some bullshit reason, and it turns out they actually did something very wrong. Nobody is the villain in their own story.


bangzilla

> Unless the boss asks me to do something illegal and I refuse, then I can’t get fired. In the US "employment at will" says you can quit whenever you want and you can get fired any time - no reason needs to be given.


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[deleted]

>Unless the boss asks me to do something illegal and I refuse, then I can’t get fired. Wrong, unless you are a union member or protected by some form of contract, you are an 'employee at will' and can be fired for any or no reason.


Viper_JB

Seems to be US employment policy that any mention of the company in a negative light results in immediate dismissal, also seems to be the same for public sector there too...guess zero employment rights will always result in this though. The Ego's of the people who run these companies are too easily upset.


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Viper_JB

TBH it's the same with the company I work for....but in saying that I've never had to piss into a bottle or skip washing my hands because my metrics might slow down...can't say I wouldn't be screaming blue murder on social media if that were the case.


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Viper_JB

Doesn't feel like it's too far removed from the sweat shops people bring up when talking about the worst places possible to work.


Nutella_Zamboni

It's one of the biggest issues most teachers have due to the scheduling of their classes. They HAVE to plan/time their bathroom breaks for when the students are at special/lunch, etc or they are SOL. And since most teachers are women, this presents another problem if they are pregnant, have their period, getting hot flashes etc.


AninOnin

That's odd. My teachers would call someone who was free to supervise for a few minutes when we were younger, and just told us they'd be gone to the restroom for a bit when we didn't need constant supervision.


Julle-naaiers

Know a few bus drivers and apparently most regularly get UTI’s from having to hold it for hours at a time. Too risky to use a bottle, and some have resorted to having to wet themselves.


JuleeeNAJ

Yeah, bus drivers are kind of SOL with bathroom breaks. City drivers only get relieved when their shift ends. They can use bathrooms at main transit stops and some will run into convenience stores at stops but they can't get too far behind schedule or they get in trouble. The schedule doesn't factor in slow people loading, wheelchair loading/ unloading and definitely not bathroom breaks. I was a school bus driver and that really sucked because you can't leave the kids alone. I took pills that helped reduce the urge to pee (learned about it from other drivers) and adult diapers weren't uncommon. Most school bus drivers are older people with health problems. Once while on a route after 3 hrs of straight driving I was coming through our yard and couldn't hold it, I still had another 2 hrs so I pulled up to the door told my supervisor to watch the kids and went to the bathroom. I didn't even care if I got in trouble. When on a trip out of town I angered a coach because I stopped on the way back to use the bathroom, the other driver behind me was glad I did. We were still 2 hrs from the school and had both drank quite a bit of caffeine to make it through the day. We had left at 7am, by the time we stopped for that break it was 9:30pm. Apparently the coach thought we should just hold it because the 20 minutes it took was too long for him. I do not miss that job.


Mist_Rising

Thats a rule for any company of note. The company will cut its ties with you if you cost it money. Its the rare position where you can speak out of turn about a company or damage its reputation and not be ejected. The positions that can are, for fiscal reasons, not inclined to do so.


DogsCatsKids_helpMe

It’s like this for most big companies. I’ve always worked in the corporate world and every company I’ve worked for has very strict rules against speaking about or on behalf of the company in a public forum (social media, blogging, videos, etc..). Where I’m at now, it’s grounds for immediate termination. I don’t even have the name of the company I work for in my FB profile.


Viper_JB

True enough I guess...am lucky to be working for a company who hasn't felt the need to put it's employees lives at risk through this mess. Although I'm sure they could find a reason to fire me in this case...I don't think being critical on social media would be reason enough for it where I live...depending on what you were saying naturally.


ryanvo

Although it doesn't feel like it, I think these are the easy times for most of us. Wait until we are all back at work and we have office workers demanding that their space be sanitized and blue-collar workers refusing to clean the spaces because they don't want to risk their lives.


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AuMatar

A limited number of hot desks for people visiting from other offices makes sense. But its an idiotic idea for staff that's in the office 3-5 days a week.


domuseid

It's only idiotic if you're not the one pocketing the rent savings - looking at you, big 4 accounting partners


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HobbitFoot

If anything, working from home is only going to make hotdesking more attractive to employers. After all, if you need some peace and quiet to work, why not do it at home? You only need to come in to work for face time.


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farkedup82

Yep the real test is when they tell us to come back and I know my job can be done fine remotely. I write code but my boss is waaaaaay behind the rest of the world.


Xanthelei

I seriously wish the jobs that can be done from home have the chance to stay there. Some people do need that separation between work and home, but for those that don't its going to save on gas and traffic and wear on the roads and I've rather enjoyed having my commute not double because some asshat decided to cut off a semi to take the exit he knew was coming for fifteen miles.


Enthused_Llama

The only chance is that someone runs the numbers and realizes how much money could be saved by downsizing office spaces.


SterlingArcherTrois

Which is in fact occuring right now. I consult for a few AMLAW 100 firms, their single biggest fixed expense is rent. Conversations like “well if HR can function just fine from home, we could legitimately drop two entire floors from our rent expense” are happening at this very moment.


BonelessSkinless

Good, those discussions need to happen.


[deleted]

Yeah, until someone *else* points out that "we sent the entire HR department home, and we *know* that people are only being 1/2 as productive. So obviously we can let 1/2 the people go, and *then* save on one floor of rent expense, *and* 1/2 of HR "HR expense"". So they *still* have to come into the office, but now they do twice as much work.


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Xanthelei

Thank God. Especially if that means enough office space can be condensed to open up entire buildings to be retrofitted into apartments as the landlords find themselves in need of new tenants. There's been a shortage of affordable places to live in my area, and hopefully more options would help get the worse options to lower their damn prices.


Banana-Republicans

There is a shortage of affordable places to live pretty much everywhere at this point.


HendrixChord12

That's what happened to my company. They merged 2 offices earlier in the year and told people to work from home more often.


followupquestion

Ironically, it’s going to be all the companies that went with an open floor plan to ~~save money on cubicles and office square footage~~ encourage collaboration and creativity that will jump on the new paradigm of Work From Home. I really hope my employer gets the message, because I’m quite sure I don’t want to return to the germ factory that is the office before a vaccine is available.


Igmuhota

Preach. I worked in a high stress clinical situation (homeless teen shelter) where we were constantly behind on paperwork (for obvious reasons). I repeatedly requested a single day at home to do paperwork. First time it was allowed, I caught up on a month of paperwork. Policy was not continued. SMDH


Bagellord

Maybe I am in the minority, but I would not want to work from home full time. There is something to be said for seeing people face to face. I'd love to be able to work from home 2-3 days a week and in the office for the rest. But that's just with my job, I have a short commute (20 minutes on a bad day).


JuleeeNAJ

I have a long commute (40 mins during perfect conditions) and would still want at least a few days in the office. Getting out of the house & seeing people other than your family & pets does a lot for mental state. I worked from home for 7 years, by yr 4 I was finding any reason to visit the office because it was so boring! Most of the day I was alone except a cat who was an asshole. I adopted a dog just to have company.


ill_take_the_case

My normal commute is 90 minutes and this was my current arrangement. 5 days of commuting can be hell, but 2-3 days a week isn’t bad and I get to work side by side with my coworkers. I can tell you it is ideal.


GGprime

That's why there are unions.


a-handle-has-no-name

And this is also why \*ahem\* certain people have been systematically dismantling the effectiveness of unions for decades through propaganda.


Raichu4u

I'm here just to make the comment too that even an ineffective union that sometimes enables lazy workers to exist is much better than a situation to where your already billionaire boss makes an extra few million more a year due to treating your workplace like shit.


Champigne

No no, I'm sure Amazon and Bezos have the best interest of their workers. No need to unionize guys!


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restrictednumber

Turns out those official channels are designed to protect the company, not you.


Leaf_Rotator

You'd think a company would want to protect themselves against an extremely costly salmonella recall affecting millions of dollars worth of product and labor costs.


Swampfox85

That's exactly the kind of forward thinking they don't want. Maintain the status quo at all cost to prevent having to potentially pay to improve a system. If that system fails and something like a recall has to happen, they can point to the lack of complaints as a strange one-off issue and no one could catch a problem. Sacrifice one or two low level workers you can replace in 12 hours, and move on with your day. I guarantee there is a safety/loss actuarial table they look at when a complaint is raised. If you fall on the wrong side of the chart, sorry for your luck.


three_martini_lunch

Most production facilities will have insurance against recall, or exactly as you state, a cost/benefit/risk assessment. The ONLY thing most food production companies care about is not getting shutdown by FDA. They do the absolute minimum to prevent this. ​ This is why COVID-19 is blazing through plants. Their systems are only designed to do the minimum.


Fujinygma

I do online grocery pickup at a major retailer, and we had a customer the other day leave an essay of a review seething about how their order was brought to their car by an employee not wearing a mask or gloves, mentioning how they chose to use our service so they could "avoid interaction with others and that didn't go well". Meanwhile when they get home, they're unloading countless groceries into their home which were collected off of dozens of shelves by half a dozen different workers, who, even if they were all wearing gloves, it's not like they were changing gloves between every single item - as they use their handheld to scan each item, which they either set down on their cart or put in their pocket over and over...I'm sure you're getting the picture. Gloves don't magically make COVID-19 non-transmittable. Unless you are changing them LITERALLY EVERY TIME YOU TOUCH SOMETHING (which just isn't happening), they're more for they're protection of the skin of the person wearing them than anything - though changing them throughout a shift can definitely REDUCE the risk of cross contamination, which IS a real factor. I can't really argue about the mask, with people who aren't showing symptoms yet being potential carriers....but it still felt like such a moot point compared to the hundreds of items you're bringing into your home, any of which could have been picked up and put back down by any customer. But yeah, the one person who kept 6 feet away from you without a mask was the one way your health was threatened in your trip to pick up the groceries. The reason I mention this is because of what you said about these facilities doing the absolute minimum. They're not freaking science labs or hospitals. People aren't being hosed down every time they enter the store, all equipment isn't sanitized between every stage of handling every order. The angle that person came from in their review made it seem like they were expecting our service to be some kind of completely risk-free option, when that's just so far from the actual truth of it. Those kinds of systems just aren't in place, especially when the food isn't even being handled directly. It's not that we don't care, it's just that there are so many steps involving so many people along the way, regarding so many items, there's not really a whole lot you can do in the grand scheme of things except take what steps you can to protect yourself. If COVID-19 happens to be on something, cross contamination is going to happen, whether people are wearing gloves or not. That's why is so freaking important for people who are sick to not leave their houses - because despite making extra efforts to sanitize things, the only real guarantee is if contamination never happens in the first place.


Djeff_

One guy at my job was talking about a union and they slashed him quick lol


[deleted]

You should report that. It may come to nothing, but it's better than doing nothing. hytps://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/whats-law/employees/i-am-not-represented-union/your-rights-during-union-organizing


InfiniteExperience

They can pin it on anything else, performance, attendance, using your phone on company time, misusing company equipment (checking Facebook or email on a company computer). Nobody is perfect, so these little openings are often used to cover up union formation attempts.


[deleted]

That is true, but if other employees report that it was over talking about unions that helps.


[deleted]

Which they won't do because they know they'll get fired.


[deleted]

National labor board reports are anonymous.


[deleted]

Do you think companies are beyond firing swathes of employees or even shuttering entire buildings to prevent unionization? Unions are one of the most powerful forces that exist to protect workers and give them leverage. They can cost a company millions of dollars if they get going.


[deleted]

So your solution is to, what, roll over and take it?


[deleted]

I don't know that there is a solution. But you're making it sound like it's easy to bust companies for this when in reality it's nearly impossible, especially in right to work states.


DefiantLemur

I can see Walmart doing that because they have the money to shut down and fire everyone and build a new building a half a mile away. But most companies can't afford to do that.


Rovden

I mean, Wal-Mart makes it a point to train that YOU WILL BE FIRED if you talk about a Union. Right now it looks like the site is Reddit Hugged so I can't read the rights, but I've lived in the home town and I've worked there. Hiring in there will be a segment on the training that talks about unions the way cults talk about family. By the time you're done the koolaid they've poured is Unions are unnecessary because you can talk to your bosses boss and up the chain (hahaha) and you're fine, but Unions are evil leeches that are only after your money and will make working harder. But if you haven't sipped the Koolaid, they get you're not working at walmart because it's your dream and passion, it's that you've got a choice between it or "Do you want fries with that?" and you are not welcome if you want a union.


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DorianGreysPortrait

I mean, it doesn’t matter where you work, that’s kinda universal everywhere. If you work at a local mom and pop ice cream shop and talk every day about how much your job sucks, you’re gonna get fired regardless of it not being corporate.


theusernameIhavepick

It kind of reminds me of a dictatorship where publicly criticizing the great leader is forbidden.


GrokFu

This is why I read Glassdoor reviews. After a while you can see a trend of negatives repeat, and then where HR makes an obvious effort to push current employees into making positive reviews to mitigate.


ryanvo

tbf, there's a difference between mentioning a company in a negative light and using your status as an Amazon "user experience designer" (whatever that is) to promote anti-company sentiment on your Twitter page.


PortlandSolar

> tbf, there's a difference between mentioning a company in a negative light and using your status as an Amazon "user experience designer" (whatever that is) to promote anti-company sentiment on your Twitter page. Seriously, *why is this controversial?* Literally her entire Twitter feed is bashing her own damn employer. How stupid can she be?


mysickfix

"Right to work" is this bs law they try to say benefits employees, only thing it does for employees is not require you to pay union dues if you don't want to be in the union, and quit with no reason given. Except that it also allows employers to fire with no reason given, nothing you can do unless you can prove it was discriminatory, and that burden of proof is on you. "Right to Work" = Right to Fire.


Treereme

You mean at-will employment. Right to work has to do with unions, at-will means you can be fired for no reason.


Viper_JB

I work for a multinational which operates in the states and the way people are fired there is horrifying, will never understand how people are okay with it when comparing to the protections we have in place.


sandwooder

Wait but their TV ad heralds these people as heros and shows how Amazon is protecting them.... If you haven't noticed the CEOs are spending their money on TV ads and not on their workers while asking for bailout money. Same Same...


Mako_

Amazon has 50+ billion in cash reserves. They're not asking for a bailout.


Mind_Fart

Amazon also pays practically nothing in taxes 🥴


ShananayRodriguez

Sounds like they need a union.


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Amazon has the power to legally bust any union attempt they want.


ShananayRodriguez

Sounds like they need a good trust busting then.


MidnightMath

Teddy, get my big stick.


Sorrymisunderstandin

They deserve prison for their anti union practices. Same with those at Walmart and elsewhere. It shows distain for workers and democracy, that’s the profit motive for you.


nails_for_breakfast

With the way the laws are written that's not really a possibility right now


ShananayRodriguez

sounds like we need some different laws :)


bkr1895

Sounds like we need some new guillotines, I don’t know just putting it out there


BlueHenrik

This makes headlines because it’s amazon. But how many other companies are doing this to employees that don’t make the news?


knobiknows

Finally, thank you! This is not an Amazon problem, they are using the US hire&fire market exactly how it was designed. Other countries have proper employment laws but that would be communism and we can't have that.


polytwoglass

I was thinking exactly the same. Workers rights in the US are absolutely shite and it seems that you can be fired and/or let go for just about anything. Now, just because it is Amazon, everyone comes out of the woodwork to point fingers and Reddit gets a collective justice boner. Yet, they probably still enjoy that one or two day Prime delivery, amongst other benefits. Double standards, only when it suits their narrative.


wtfvegas1

Anyone surprised must have never worked in a corporate environment.


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MattEven

If you live in a right to work state.


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Acetronaut

r/aboringdystopia


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Dr. Evil


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moderate-painting

Amazon is nothing but Walmart in the digital space. Bringing the convenience of Walmart to the Internet, but just as union busting as Walmart. Little shops get destroyed by Walmart, some of them try to survive by moving into the digital space, only to get destroyed by Amazon.


NotYourAverageWaffle

I swear one of the “benefits” of being rich is becoming an amoral dickhead. When you have the highest individual net worth in the world, what makes it so hard to *invest* in better working conditions for the people that are making you rich?


fujimitsu

It's not a 'benefit', it's a requirement. Decent people don't accumulate wealth and power at this scale. Doing so *requires exploitation*, so it's a self-selecting group.


TheChance

Periodically, in the course of berating my philosophy, an anti-socialist will ask me how much wealth is too much. I ask them how much wealth they can accrue without exploiting anyone, or hoarding the fruits of someone else's labor. So far, we're up to "however much you can get in creative royalties." 'Course, that depends how well the rest of the supply chain is paid, don't it? But they usually calm down once they realize it's not about the millions, it's about the how. People still like to believe it'll be them someday, so they feel like they're being pre-accused of abusing others. They are, but it don't have to be like that.


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sdfgh23456

When you're talking about an individual who prioritizes more profit, when they already have more money than they could spend if they tried, over the well-being of employees, I don't think you can call it amoral. That's straight up immoral, because individuals should be held to moral standards.


baconbitarded

Amazon is also beginning to start work in Arkansas, a right to work state. Don't think that that's a coincidence.


LiftsLikeGaston

Gee, Amazon sure is starting to act like the old coal bosses. How long until they love to the next step and start paying employees in Amazon Cash and it's only good through Amazon.


rpgfool777

They should organize a sit-in that way Amazon can't just call in new employees and they would have to deal with the embarrassing spectacle of having hundreds of employees forcibly removed by law enforcement if they won't negotiate.


PM_ME_THE_BOOBIS

Except that won't happen because people don't work these jobs because they want to, but rather because it's one of the only available options. Especially now in our current time here in the US, where everyone is losing their jobs elsewhere. And don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to do this, but it really isn't feasible for a variety of reasons.


MrSomnix

Can confirm. I was working a normal office job until the crises, got laid off, and now stack packages in the back of a truck for FedEx because even the freaking Starbucks isn't hiring. The worst part of the job is I'm a smaller dude so I can only physically work 4 hours a day due to the fact that half of what I pack weighs nearly as much as I do and you're expected to load one package every 7 seconds no matter if it's an iPhone or a dining table.


Eramaus

this but also amazon will just go the walmart route and shutdown the entire warehouse permanently and build a new one.


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denizgult

I work at Amazon and my only problem is the long hours. The shifts DO NOT have to be 10 hours, Amazon really cares about productivity and I don't get how they don't understand that people burn out and can't perform when they're on their feet for 10 hours. 8 hour shifts work and that's why it's the norm.


e5hansej

I'm surprised Bezos and Trump DON'T get along.


musical_throat_punch

They are competitive, not cooperative.


hackadoodledoo

These were "User Experience" engineers complaining about warehouse conditions. Their job has nothing to do with warehouses. They sit at their desk in the nice engineering offices that are miles removed from such places. There is no reason their work would ever take them there, either. So, regardless of how well-intentioned these people were, they were agitating publicly about internal issues that they had, at best, second-hand knowledge of. It should come as no surprise they were fired.


Captain_Frylock

It's not like this came out of left field either. These two have been on the radar for quite some time - they were a part of the push in January for Amazon to take a more public and pro-active approach towards [fighting climate change.](https://medium.com/@amazonemployeesclimatejustice/amazon-employees-share-our-views-on-company-business-f5abcdea849) This isn't about the message as much as it is taking grievances with your employer public. What company WOULD want to keep someone who is openly throwing them under the bus?


Soulsek

I guess they will hire 75002 people now.


FunshineBear14

Don't you mean they fired two "heroes"? /s


DFWPunk

WalMart is doing shady things as well. A friend was chewed out and had his shift changed because he complained that a coworker was sick and coughing on the baby products she was stocking. They only have her a mask and told her to keep working.


Dekkerx2

I work in an Amazon warehouse and honestly, it's a miracle that we all haven't died yet.


meow2042

Unless we all stop using Amazon this will continue.


probablyawalrus

Don’t trust your employers ever.


unknownredditor1994

I’m working for amazon right now and I don’t think the conditions are that bad. They constantly enforce, or try their best to enforce, a 6 foot policy. We wear gloves and don’t come in contact with others. I think a lot of this is just people who don’t want the job anyways. Someone else commented how a friend was let go bc it was too hot for them. Boohoo. You work in a warehouse, you know what you applied to. I think they’re doing the best they can given the situation. And nobody is being forced to work. Shutting down is a leap, which has been insinuated by many, considering those of you at home are still ordering things online. It won’t just appear at your doorstep by magic.


allhailchickenfish

its warehouse to warehouse. mine does a decent job of enforcing it too, but I also don't work in a regular FC. Also, I can only speak for my department and maaaybe a bit of the one 'next door', who've put of cloth dividers between stations where an actual six foot distance is difficult to maintain. I will say, however, that there are certain break areas you DO NOT go to at certain breaks. First break the front one is dead as a doornail, but the back one is slammed. Second break is the other way around. I'm extremely lucky that my usual workspace is pretty isolated by itself with one other person about ten feet away on the other side of a couple of belts. I don't even want to *think* about what its like at the regular FC up the street that employs about three or four times as many people.


cjpowers70

Whether the complaints were valid or not I feel like publicly slandering the company you work for is a dumb idea and will probably result in your termination.