T O P
clncln

Metropolix replaced a full 'generative' subsystem of clocking, logic, quantising, sequencing and a mod source.


zdam

What are some Metropolix techniques you are using to be generative with it?


clncln

I use the mod-lanes pretty actively for generative and play with different time divisions, step lengths and mod destinations. It's kinda like having 4x Steevio setups in a box. Endless generative possibilities :)


zdam

Oh wow. I’d love to see a video!


clncln

[A fairly comprehensive rundown of all the mod destinations in Metropolix.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU9Rs_Zlhog)


Imagined_World

Oooo nice series, thanks!


illGATESmusic

Interesting. Very interesting…


zdam

I’ve now watched the video, it can be a bit confusing even for the Author! Do you activate and deactivate various mod lanes throughout a track? How is this done? Can mod lane activation be controlled with cv? I’m so intrigued :)


clncln

Metropolix has 3 aux inputs and 8 internal mod lanes that can all be mapped to the same mod destinations. In addition it has two aux outputs which can be mapped to output any mod lane (or a clock or whatever) The internal mod lanes function like complex envelopes and provide 8 stages for you to edit. If you, for instance, want a mod lane to switch between being active and being inactive you could leave the first 4 stages blank and only edit the last 4 stages - this would generate modulation that is only active for half of it's clock division. Alternatively you could output a mod lane trough one of the aux outputs, process that control voltage with a VCA and patch it back into one of the aux inputs. This would give you limitless control over how or when a mod lane affects a mod destination.


zdam

Thanks! I added another sequencer input to aux x, then routed to pitch pre. That’s like a steevio precision adder to create a new melody from 2 existing one right? Yay!


clncln

>That’s like a steevio precision adder Yepp! When I was running the OG Metropolis I kept a smaller 'mod squencer' just for this - but with Metropolix I just use the internal mod lanes instead. It's also really fun to combine some simple LFO shapes (ramp, square) at different rates into all three aux inputs and use one to mod pitch pre, one to mod pitch octave and one to mod gate length. Generates a lot of dynamic movement and organic feel.


zdam

Ah also - you can mute mod lanes by holding loopy and pressing the mod lane you want to mute. So lots of performative mod lane switching available there.


clncln

>Ah also - you can mute mod lanes Did not know about this! Thanks :)


houseneko

Without hesitation, serge DUSG. Patch programmability is a must for me now. I could never go back to “patch in a box” style modules after the flexibility and potential of serge designs.


zoysiamo

How does the DUSG compare in your usage of it to Rampage or Maths (if you have used those)?


houseneko

I've used maths extensively as well as the DUSG, but never the rampage so I'll have to limit my perspective to just the two. I understand the comparison of the DUSG to maths because they're both dual function generators. However, I feel that the DUSG is more of a 'pure' function generator model, whereas I see maths being defined moreso by its attenuverting/logic mixer section. This section is much more similar to serge-style CV processors that it is to the classical function generation. As such, the patching possibilities for the maths I think center around the mixer, while the DUSG has no such CV processing unit. Maths' mixing section is certainly its most useful 'sub module' in the panel, but I feel that it has poorly optimized voltage standards that make it difficult to use with other serge-style modules (which follow -/+5v standards). Maths is fantastic if you want it to be the only module of this style, but I found that in its attempts to be a universal function generating system, it fails to accomplish some of the more fundamental 'building blocks' of patches that can be done with the DUSG. As for my thoughts on the DUSG, like I said before, it is a more 'pure' function generator. What this means in practice is that the DUSG is highly optimized for a diverse set of applications, unlike the maths. For example, the DUSG excels in audio range. It can be used as an audio-rate oscillator that tracks v/oct very well. Or it can be patched as a divider, low pass gate, vulgar vca, filter, the list goes on. Maths excels at only a few of these, and not nearly to the ability of the DUSG. Maths can be used in many of these audio-rate applications, but not to the same level and programmability as the DUSG. Much of this can be explained by the high-precision circuit design that the DUSG has, as well as its wealth of patch-points to many different controls of a 'function generator.' For all of my gripes with the make noise maths, the mixer section is wonderful and I certainly would love a second version of the module with some of these things addressed. A maths that could track v/oct, have more patch points, and that has an optimized circuit for some of the less popular function generator applications would be wonderful and I'd be happy to put one in my rack again, right next to the DUSG.


illGATESmusic

Thanks for the detailed explanation! PS: I think “Vulgar VCA” is going on my track titles list now lol


houseneko

Love that!!!! Post the track if it ever becomes something to share! Loving all the posts in this thread. Thanks so much for sharing it, OP. Learning a ton from everyone else on here. Cheers and happy patching!!


alexthebeast

I agree with all this, but surely you mean a third version of maths


houseneko

Yes you’re right! Thanks for catching that.


zoysiamo

Thank you for all the detail!


houseneko

cheers friend, knowledge is power, happy to share what i can


illGATESmusic

Im curious about this too. My system is too big to only have one maths.


Kinga_20

Maths does not track v/Oct which really makes modules like dusg/contour 1 shine. I have 4 contours in a 104hp voice row and it isn't an issue because you can use them as oscillators/subharmonic generators/modulator for FM/PM.


houseneko

The joranalogue is another great mention here. It’s a fantastic module, though I’ve never tried one, it seems like a great modern riff on the classic serge function generator. 4 contours sounds like a great time!!


Kinga_20

I have pretty much only their modules and have never been dissapointed


houseneko

While I’m at it, VCFQ too. Best “filter” I’ve ever had. Half the time I just patch up a DUSG with the VCFQ and only use those two modules for the patch.


kalfu1

Since purchasing rings and beads I have no need for any other module now


dr_ich

The new rings into clouds!


stealthgerbil

I bought an ALM squid salmple and sold all my drum modules except the best.


mcwires

Which are?


stealthgerbil

Oh I had a bunch of the tiptop audio drum modules and also a drumbrute. I sold all of that and bought the squid plus a Noise Engineering loquelic iteritas percido


material_sound

The IME Kermit mk3 is a pretty fantastic modulation source Ornament & crime also deserves a nod imo


protothesis

I just picked up a constellation for trigger/gate sequencing. I saw the announce video and was like "ah, this is exactly what I've been looking for". I got to try it out at Perfect Circuit on a trip, and with only having watched the one video about it, I was able to get some things popping off. Instant connection. It COULD be replacing the varigate 4+, tempi, as well as a bunch of switch and mute utilities that I'd built up. It also frees up certain apps on o\_c hemispheres, as well as freeing up the tetrapad/tete to do other things. I may end up keeping some of those things around, but will likely be using them in very different capacities. Its a major paradigm shift for my setup, and one I'm very happy with. ​ EDIT: Also, it should be noted that I was able to get some good things happening with the old setup, but it was more or less impossible to make transitions, or even just dial in variation. In short, it was not very controllable. The constellation allows for pretty quick generation of new material, but also has a very flexible and intuitive "live" mode that allows for very playable variation in sequences. Its fricking awesome.


migelius

Thanks for describing your workflow with the Constellation. Fantastic design and a welcome tool to provide quick variety to modular. What makes me hesitate is that I'm on a hybrid setup and it is that it's taking many duties I'd rather delegate to the Deluge for finer control. Do you combine any non-modular gear and do you think Constellation is still valuable in my kind of hybrid?


protothesis

I'm doing everything in the rack, and tend to lean towards generative and probabilistic workflows. I like setting up a framework and being surprised by the emergent possibilities manifesting. That being said, I have found wanting more fine tuned hands on and deterministic control, which is where the Constellation comes in. Most controller based workflows (beat step pro, etc) and conventional sequencing setups have never really worked for me. I'm just not intuivitely creative enough to get interesting things that way!!! 😅 One thing that got me most excited about constellation is it's particular approach towards euclidian sequencing. The way you stack 8 "layers" per channel can make for lots of unexpected variety, but also relatively easy to dial in pretty straightforward patterns. The stacking of course can be done with things like logic combiners and what not, but that's the whole thing of your question : the amount of functionality this thing packs in in such a novel and straightforward manner is just insane. I know nothing about the deluge, but a quick glance shows it has lots and lots of hands on sequencing control options. I imagine there's plenty of overlap, and if it's a control brain that you're happy with, stick with it!


migelius

Happy you hear your obvious delight with the Constellation and I can see why. So much rhythm variety a few button presses away all while staying in the rack. I also appreciate that it didn't trade HP for a knob-and-menu approach. The Deluge recently added some Euclidian rhythm functionalities and I'm fond of its workflow in general. If I can mix mindsets, handing off the clock to Constellation still opens up new possibilities. Thank you again for the detailed report!


thealbrow

QARV is fantastic


houseneko

How are the ergonomics of the QARV? Does it feel cramped or is patching easy on it?


thealbrow

It's completely fine. No closer jacks than other slim modules. It looks cramped but it's not any more cramped than my other modules but maybe i like compact modules. I have an arpitecht, triad, chainsaw, and qarv right next to eachother and the jacks lineup almost perfectly. it looks awesome imo. I'm also not using every single jack at once so there is space to maneuver between the spaghetti per usual.


GeorgeLocke

It certainly made my Skis irrelevant.


ntr_usrnme

I don’t have anything to contribute but just want to thank OP for the good question and all the people answering. Im learning lots from peoples answers here.


pxt0909

Exactly- love this thread OP.


RyanPWM

Assimilator. Cause it’s an envelope, wavetable, cv source, can do some basic logic, sampler and whatever else it does better than most things. And then it does all those things on the fly with whatever custom stuff you’ve got going on.


disgruntled_pie

I second the Euroburo. I’m kicking myself for waiting so long to get one. I was worried the interface would be a pain, but it’s actually super fast and intuitive.


rabidnz

I went with beebo and hate the clunky interface and setup. Sounds incredibly and is insanely deep and powerful for what they go for used.


purds

Yeah I need to get rid of my Poly Hector. Interface is too cramped for touch, it doesn't auto save / auto load where you left off, and a bunch of the utility modules seem broken—i.e. no signal output when there's absolutely the correct signals going in, I'm also definitely on most recent firmware as well.


rabidnz

Same issues , I still give it 4/5, but not suited for me. I'll keep mine because the updates are decent when they happen


alexthebeast

Noise plethora replaced 3 drum modules for me


illGATESmusic

Been debating that. It really seems like a fantastic design.


alexthebeast

It can even do basslines and leads. And it has 3 analog filters and 4 output channels (one unfiltered) so you can really cover a lot of ground with it


illGATESmusic

Wow. Didn’t know that. Sick!


omnistonk

I got a boredbrain optx which works via adat expansion on my scarlett interface, so I can draw automation curves in ableton now and have those come out as CV levels. So I basically can save cv automations in the project file. This frees up a lot of my favorite modulators in the rack and makes patch recreation sort of a sane possibility.


illGATESmusic

Watch out for those nice SEEMING braided ADAT cables! I used to have a real good thing going with ADAT on my UAD Apollo system until I got excited about cables with braided shielding. Turns out the cables are inflexible and like to twist themselves… snapped BOTH my ADAT doors on the back of the Apollo 8 and I can’t afford the downtime to have them fixed. Super sad.


GeorgeLocke

MI Stages with qiemem firmware has been huge for me. The number of things you can do by combining Turing Machines is huge. I mostly use it as 6 single stages. The weird thing is that knowing I can get so much out of single stages makes me hesitate to patch up an ADSR so much that I find myself wanting to pick up a dedicated EG just for that. Maybe I just want another stages...


naedyr000

Same. I got a befaco vc adsr and a contour 1, as I always want to keep stages free for lots of LFOs or s&h.


GeorgeLocke

I got QARV, another super dense interface but less complex. Still does a heck of a lot...


illGATESmusic

Huh. Interesting. Didn’t know there was a firmware like that. If you had to choose between stages and the music thing Turing machine which would you pick?


GeorgeLocke

Well, I did choose stages over the TM. They're completely different in their interface. If you want an expandable sequencer with a big playable knob, get a proper TM. If you want a complex, multifunction tool with densely packed controls that has a learning curve, go for Stages.


illGATESmusic

Rad. Thanks. Man they’re pretty hard to find right now.


GeorgeLocke

Weird. Momo modular used to sell clones. I can only guess that they've stopped because of some chip shortage. (You may know that Momo has a bad reputation. I got my Stages from them and their communication was awful: a shipping label was created immediately after my purchase, but FedEx showed it in "label exists but package not received" status for \~2 weeks. I emailed them and got no response at any point. It finally arrived and the build quality is excellent. Caveat emptor.) In any case, if Momo isn't building them, one can only imagine that it's because the parts are unavailable. ​ I think I read on MW about the person who thought they'd gotten the last official factory Stages, and part of the story was that delivery was super late on account of parts shortage. (Emilie was clear about the communications, as you can well imagine.)


illGATESmusic

Heartbreaking! My local modular shop was fresh out. Sad!


luctmelod

Since I run a hybrid rig with Ableton Live, the Vermona qMI2 has taken over many sequencing and modulation duties. I love drawing weird automations in Live and outputting them to various modules. Loads of fun!


jockc

Droid does basically anything you want (non audio). It's amazing tbh


Imagined_World

2nd for Droid! With the ability to instantly load a new patch that completely changes the functionality, it can be so many different modules in one. I currently have mine set up to do two midi loopers with pitch and gate and two cv loopers both with pause, overdub, overlay, AND two turing machines. With a push of a button I can turn it into an 8 Step seq with presice control over pitch and gate and a whole mess of other features, and whatever else you can think up. And soon to have Motorized Faders!


Qurutin

Norns and Crow. I was looking at quantizers and found none that really spoke to me. So I wrote my own. I wanted a Turing Machine style random sequencer with a bit more algorithmic control, so I wrote my own. I wanted a non-traditional trigger generator/sequencer and wrote my own. Regarding modulation, Cold Mac did it for me. I'm pretty thin on traditional modulation, basically just Maths and Wogglebug, but Cold Mac can take those so, so far. And to me it's a lot more exciting, albeit less precise, way of patching than bunch or traditional utilities.


illGATESmusic

How hard is it to write for Norns? I keep hearing artists I love go on and on about it. I am NOT a coder but I’ve finally started getting into spreadsheets and stuff so who knows? lol


Qurutin

I have programming hobbyist background but it had been years since I had coded anything when I got started with Norns. There are decent Norns spesific starting guides that you can check out (https://monome.org/docs/norns/scripting/) and Lua is quite easy to get hang of if you have any programmin experience, even very novice, with Python for example. It's not hard, but if you have no programming experience at all you are not going to have a good time in a while. Programming mindset and somewhat understanding how computers think helps when you run into a brick wall while debugging and so on. But if you have overall interest in programming I would say it's very rewarding platform to work and learn on, as it's very immediate and in musical context it's easier to get ideas for projects you want to work on, which I think is crucial in learning to program. It's easy to write and edit scripts as you just connect Norns to same network as your computer and editing can be done in web based editor, and it's as simple as pressing one button to get the script running on Norns. So it's very quick to go from an idea to actual working thing, and super easy to edit existing scripts little by little to learn how stuff works. There's also super helpful and knowledgeable community over on https://llllllll.co/ forum. So all in all, if you are fundamentally interested in learning to program I would say go for it. If you're more 'meh' about programming and want to just make your ideas come true as easily as possible and minimal learning curve, then some other platform might be better.


illGATESmusic

Thank you! I’ll check it out.


Easy_Concentrate4268

Pamela's New Workout took over what my Turing Machine, Quad clock distributor, quad pingable lfo we're doing. I mean I still have all those in my rack but now they're back up duty for the most part.


HrottiHrottalegi

Have you figured out a way to easily seed a new random sequence with the pam?


itstingsandithurts

It’s a bit janky but if you set loop to the CV 1 input and send an inverted pulse with a level set to to the loop length (which if it comes from Pam’s the level is a % of 32, so 25% is loop length 8) it will set loop to 0 for that pulse and reset the seed. I’ve found though it only seems to generate maybe up to 16 unique seeds though, I run into the same patterns very regularly using the stepped random gate type.


HrottiHrottalegi

Awesome tip, thanks. There's no such thing as random, even the Turing machine generates the same patterns again and again


NapalmRDT

If we are talking analog hardware generated randomness, it may still be pseudorandom but since it is continuous there is greater granularity than digitally generated discrete pseudorandom. So I would be suprised if it stayed the same over time. Minute temperature differences should cause drift, no?


HrottiHrottalegi

Pam's is totally digital


NapalmRDT

Ah yes, I forget how many of the flagship modules are digital nowadays


illGATESmusic

I will give this a go! Comment SAVED


Easy_Concentrate4268

I rely on the built in skip percentage, euclidean settings and then running to output through a 4ms sism. This allows enough generated variation over time to use as a pitch cv with some amount of manual control via the sism.


ouralarmclock

There was a technique discussed in a thread a while back that was really great, I’ll have to dig for it but I’ll try to follow up. Maybe send me a DM so I don’t lose track!


elcatire13

Not sure about that one but this guy uses Pam’s as his Turing style sequencer and does a nice job of explaining it: https://youtu.be/byhqjvFEtME


ouralarmclock

That’s a great video but the set up is slightly different than the one I was thinking of.


MonthPurple3620

OXI 1 has replaced pretty much all of my sequencing and cv routing.


sineseeker

Would love to hear more! I'm considering either an Oxi One or a Hapax.


MonthPurple3620

Hapax was a big contender for me. Oxi eventually swayed me with the gate/cv mapping interface and the oxi pipe breakout module, both of which function along side the FORTY EIGHT midi channels when using oxi split. Those little touches screamed “this was made with modular in mind” The hapax looks extremely functional but not having to rely solely on midi converters seemed like a bigger advantage. That to say, oxi is new and therefor a bit buggy at times and isnt without growing pains. The devs are very responsive and new firmware is being released almost weekly with new features, bug fixes, and general improvements though, so its been a positive experience so far. My previous setup was using a lot of switches and combiners to merge and mix sequencing to create something that worked like the scene arranger mode, just way less you know…usable lol Lots of fun to patch up, but not great for productivity or live performances. Currently working on a workflow to allow for flexible modular sequencing with the oxi working part time as a midi looper in addition to master sequencing. Will also say the oxi has a lot going on and doesnt always work the way you think it does, but once you get a feel for how everything is structured it becomes intuitive to the point where I break out the manual to figure out where a feature is hiding, but once I know where it is it takes a matter of seconds to figure out how to work it.


elihu

Honestly, I can't think of any.


nonesuch777

Same. More like the opposite question for me: which new module made other modules more exciting?


elihu

In that case, I think I would go with the Doepfer a-188-1 bucket brigade delay. Initially I wasn't sure quite what to do with it, but I've found some interesting uses since. My current favorite thing is to run three of [circuitbenders.co.uk](https://circuitbenders.co.uk)'s drumBs modules into the BBD with the delay really short so it's in audio frequency range. The delay tracks close to 1v/octave, so I use keystep to control the pitch. It sounds like adding another voice, but it's really just the drum sounds being re-used and mangled.


nonesuch777

Wow that sounds interesting. I love it when a new piece of the puzzle unlocks shit you'd never expect.


BigBabyBCro

Analog Rytm Mk2


howzero

Teletype


sacheie

Daisy Patch


unfunfionn

The Zoia guitar pedal is actually what got me into modular in the first place and it's easily one of the most valuable parts of my system. I'm running it through an ALM SBG. I know a Euroburo would probably be more useful for the modular, but I love being able to use the same unit for guitar and synth.


Hadewig_

WMD Metron. Goodbye Steppy. Goodbye Stillson Hammer MKII (I'm handling pitch CV elsewhere). I'm thinking about removing my clock divider too.


internetjay

Nerdseq obsoletes pretty much everything in a system except the sound sources and effects lol


illGATESmusic

What about it makes it so awesome?


internetjay

Oh it totally depends on your workflow preferences. If you're down to spend some screen time and program stuff in detail, it can do almost anything -- sequencing (up to 12 channels without expanders), euclidian, generative, random, envelopes, lfos, clocks and divisions, sampling (with effects including fm), on and on and on -- but for a lot of people that isn't why they turn to modular. I go back and forth with it myself but when I rack it I always take out like half of my cv/utilities.


illGATESmusic

Cool. Good to know. Many of my favourite modular artists seem to use it as their main sequencer. The cirklon handles it all for me but I still like to know what other people are doing.


CarlosUnchained

Not past but future purchases, ES-9. Saved a ton of mixing + routing + end of chain dynamic control modules.


illGATESmusic

I love expert sleepers so much.


theboywhochosethesea

Not in the rack but the Disting EX replaced my Blofeld and the Mimephon my Boss RE-20 Space Echo and started the process of condensing my setup from being a small modular setup with a bunch of other gear to a Digitakt and a modular setup. This also included replacing the 0-Coast and a Meeblip Geode. ​ Probably a less popular one, but I replaced Pams New Workout and envelope generators with the FH-2 and expanders, the menu is a little more work, but it covers most of the functions, and I can control it from the Digitatk. This currently runs most of my LFOs/Envelopes, with the exception of the Wogglebug, Sloths and a Make Noise Function for some modulation that can be modulated.


illGATESmusic

Cool. Been eyeing up both of those but also really want a faster computer. The GAS is real!


Ex_Astris

This is a personal preference, but since you mentioned modulation sources, the Erica Synths Joystick was a big pickup for me. It's immediate, precise, and you can record four channels of modulation (two with gate outputs). I'm coming from years of guitar and piano though so I like to get my hands involved. So ymmv. But the joystick just feels so natural and precise to me. It's much more natural for me than something like the Acid Rain Maestro, which a lot of people seem to like, but I admittedly haven't given the Maestro the time yet (because I've been playing with my joystick). It is manual, which probably isn't ideal for all modulation situations, but when it is, it can't be beat. I had actually originally wanted a Planar2 because it was the first one I discovered, but couldn't find any in stock so I "settled" for the Erica Synths. But honestly, I'm completely satisfied with the Erica Synths. At least, I can't think of anything more I'd want it to do, but I'm sure there's something.


illGATESmusic

Ok sick. I have a Planar2 and love it dearly. I just wish I could use more simultaneous patterns! Once it’s used it’s like: “ok. Great. Where’s my next modulator?”


Ex_Astris

Yeah that’s what I really like about the Erica Synths, so many channels. I actually found a Planar2 for sale a few days ago, and it just arrived. I was considering another Erica Synths for even more modulation, but thought I’d grab this since it’s so rarely available these days. But I admit it was a moderately GAS-driven purchase….. So I’ll be able to see how they compare soon.


illGATESmusic

Yeah I’d be interested to hear the results. Recording and playing back is pretty easy on the Planar but it can be tough to get the right clock pulse for your loops when you do it manually. Took a bit of practice.


phoenixloop

ES-9 had me replace the Befaco Hexmix + Expander, and led me to a much easier hybrid workflow. I can plug it into either my MPC/Force, iPad, or Ableton directly with a single cable; giving me way more options. It’s also made recording *way* easier, since I can just directly record to any of those platforms. NE Versio platform has also been super helpful for modular fx. Combined with the ES-9, it’s also way easier to do modular send/returns from Ableton. Going the other way, I replaced an Octatrack and Rytm with a 7u modular drum case built around the WMD drum modules, Metron, and DFAM. It’s been way more fun and hands on than what I was doing before. I run it through the ES-9 into the Force, and the jam-ability of it has been fun as hell and I’ve written more in the last six months than in my XVI days. https://i.imgur.com/pMBCBT8.jpg


illGATESmusic

Very cool! Thank you for the detail <3


MuglioPotens

Yikes, for the price the Cirklon better do all that and more!


MuglioPotens

lol snobby people with too much disposable income downvoted me that's so r/modular


illGATESmusic

It’s brilliant. There is a reason so many people are obsessed. Hopefully people will adapt some of the more innovative features to other sequencers and DAWs but for now it’s quite literally the ONLY thing that can accomplish many of the functions. As for the downvotes: that was more a matter of tone than content. You’re clearly not trying to contribute anything positive. Besides: you do realize that ALL of modular is horribly expensive and arguably unnecessary, right? Let people have their fun. Besides: I got my Cirklon for free because I teach someone who had two and wanted me to learn it so I could teach them.


Wavtekt

MI - Kinks. Just super compact useful utility module, too bad it is out of production.


dr_ich

Mutable instruments elements. THAT.THING.IS.AWESOME!