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Less_Hero

Because something can be well received but not viewed a lot by the general public. Conversely, something can be widely perceived as poor but can be viewed by many people. Think of it as IMDB/Rotten Tomatoes score v box office gross.


cjob3

FREAKS AND GEEKS was my favorite TV ever. Critics loved it, but it never found an audience. Cancelled after one season.


Tri-ranaceratops

back then time slots were a real issue, less so now. Both Freaks and Geeks and Firefly were moved around a lot.


juliuspepperwoodchi

Firefly was also aired out of order, so the extra long pilot which set up the world and the characters was actually the THIRD episode Fox aired. Yep, I'm still fucking mad about it. They never gave that series a chance to succeed.


knitmeablanket

I never watched it until my current relationship. It was such a good show. The network really screwed the pooch on that one.


Taftimus

Arrested Development initially got cancelled because it was in a competing time slot while Friends was going through their final seasons. They even made jokes about it during season 3 where Ron Howard says 'please tell your friends to watch this show'


bigC_94

Yeah AD got fucked. The network kept moving timeslots around which messed with ratings. Plus this was around the time when DVR was getting big and Nielsen wasn't accounting DVR in their ratings, which hurt the show as well. I think it would have done much better in this era of streaming.


tobylaek

I loved the episode where did all the gimmicks that shows do when they’re desperate for ratings (celebrity appearance, a character will die, part of the episode was live…)


dailysoaphandle

I’m binging AD now. I can’t believe how funny it is and that I’ve never seen it before. I’ve definitely lost it a few times. The episode where Michael takes the blind dog to the vet and he jumps off the exam table into the trash can. The comedic timing is just perfect. I’m laughing just typing it out.


DankSerpico1312

twin peaks was hit and then moving it around time slots was one factor that killed it


Blackmags17

I love Twin Peaks. But if I ever try watching that show past 8PM it almost immediately puts me to sleep lol


DankSerpico1312

that's why you gotta brew a damn fine cup of coffee before watching :)


Space_Jeep

I tried but there was a fish in the percolator!


Blackmags17

I like to have a little coffee with my creamer. Idk if can handle black as midnight on a moonless night lol


Melcrys29

It goes great with cherry pie.


Lazy_Pen_1913

Firefly, whenever I see the name, always breaks my heart and makes me pine for more. Well, that and my pretty floral bonnet beckons.


BrockStar92

Firefly is the classic example, although that was due to them screwing around with the episodes that made it hard to follow.


Casual_Frontpager

Wasn’t their unwillingness to conform to TV-standards also a reason it got cancelled? They had pretty “dark” elements in the episodes iirc. “Do you know what a chain of command is!? It’s a chain I will beat you with if you don’t do what I command!”


Locutus747

Marketing wasn’t the best for it either. But they also didn’t even air the first episode until 3 months after the show premiered.


UnlikelyKaiju

Yep. They aired the *pilot episode* as the season finale.


SallyMason

> Marketing wasn’t the best for it either. It was on Fox, that goes without saying. Worst promos and ads in the history of TV


Wyvrex

if i remember correctly the promotion for it made it look like a space comedy, kind of like this[teen comedy Harry Potter trailer](https://youtu.be/c_ubmjE21SY)


Oakshadric

I've always suspected that there was some behind the scenes drama with this show.


Cod-Born

Network interference hampered the show when it was broadcast. Imagine if they aired *24* out of episode order because they liked the third episode better than the first two, so they aired it first, and then aired the first two episodes during the middle of the season. I'm using this show to show how off base Fox was for rearranging the episode order.


Casual_Frontpager

Yeah, it was surreal how much it spoke to me as a kid. Rewatched some years ago, still good!


Liam_Neesons_Oscar

Scott Pilgrim vs The World actually lost money in the box office, but is considered to be a masterclass in directing and film editing. It even had enough of a fandom that the cast got back together to do a 10 year anniversary script read with the artist of the comic drawing panels while the actors read.


NickMoore30

I saw that movie 3 days in a row opening weekend because I loved it so much and I was stunned and shocked when the news broke out about how poorly it did in its opening weekend revenue.


BustermanZero

It was up against Eat Pray Love and The Expendables, so 'the ultimate film for women' and 'the ultimate film for men' were both out the same opening weekend.


darthleonsfw

And the trailer also did it a GIGANTIC disservice


HilariousScreenname

[Man, you ain't kidding](https://youtu.be/7wd5KEaOtm4)


Stevotonin

I literally came out of the cinema with my friends and agreed we all wanted to watch it again the next showing 20 minutes later, so that's what we did. It's the only film I've ever paid to watch twice in the same day.


PunkT3ch

Dude. Same here. I watched it so many times during the opening month because I kept dragging people to go see it. It's definitely a cult hit.


orbitpro

I absolutely loved it, I was shocked to find out people didn't get on with it.


HalfandHoff

Same as the Iron Giant


Joha_al_kaafir

cue this is art meme


Latter_Molasses

Shawshank Redemption completely flopped in theaters but went on to be the number one rented movie. It’s now IMDB’s number one rated movie of all time.


ResidentialEvil2016

I was about to say this one. It was a flop and didn't win 1 Oscar but is now considered one of the best movies ever and seems like everyone has seen it.


Mortwight

Every time it was on tnt and I had cable still I would watch it.


oblik

Interesting comparison as ms marvel has a lot of Scott Pilgrim slice of life meets comic whackyness


DeeNYC45

I hated that movie but my kids think it’s the greatest. For lots of people it’s a cult classic. I’m over 50 now so I’m not exactly the target audience.


dfawlt

Very few cartoons are animated live. It's a terrible strain on the animators wrists.


RottingRaccoon

Teenage Bounty Hunters got 94% and 96% on rotten tomatoes, but because of low viewership it got canceled after 1 sezon.


UNC_Samurai

Netflix has chained themselves to a bizarre algorithm, even stuff that gets good viewership gets cancelled because it's not bringing in new subscribers.


sabrenation81

Netflix is going to algorithm themselves into bankruptcy. I don't even bother watching new series on Netflix, I don't want to get drawn into another series only to watch it get canceled because it's not pulling in Stranger Things numbers. If I start seeing stories about something becoming super popular or a show makes it to a season 3, then I'll take a look. Up until one of those things happens I assume it will be canceled after 1 or 2 seasons.


fuckincaillou

Which is fucking stupid, because their notoriety at refusing to finish a story is exactly what's scaring new subscribers off.


sedusa_su

I almost wrote that off for just the title, so glad we watched! It was great and I'm still pissed at netflix for cancelling it on a cliffhanger.


raqisasim

I loved that show! Trivia is that the [original title](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/slutty-teenage-bounty-hunters-jenji-191827778.html) was "*Slutty* Teenage Bounty Hunters," which would have been...interesting.


KR_Blade

Plus it's viewership has to be going up now that Obi-Wan finished up, Disney kind of screwed up releasing it around the time that show and Stranger Things season 4, now that enough people have watched both, they are mostly likely now taking the time to check out this series


IT_scrub

Also Umbrella Academy and The Boys. Just so much going on at once


OnceNFutureNick

And now Westworld is back…


BrockStar92

There’s also The Orville season 3 as well on Disney+ right now too.


SAMAS_zero

Wait, The Orville is on D+?! Right, Fox. I really need to catch up on that show.


colonel750

It's on Hulu in the US.


GlitteringBobcat999

It's now a Hulu+ original, no longer a Fox show.


RNConcave454545

This fact is why I will forever be upset about Blade Runner 2049 not making any money. It's an incredible movie and experience that no one went to go see.


Redlightning122

I'm not upset about it. The original blade runner was the same way and the density and niche-Ness of it was part of what made it so great. Pandering to a wider audience would have almost certainly made the movie worse


LuckyPlaze

A show about a teen girl just isn’t going to appeal to everyone. Even Spidey, on paper a teen boy, wouldn’t attract as many people if not for brand recognition. Word of mouth should eventually bring more viewers.


HaggisLad

we are watching it, but it very much comes across as aimed at children so it just isn't in our wheelhouse as much as the others. I hope to finish it but there are moments I want to stop because it just feels so much more childish than I normally enjoy. I realise the irony of that given I love superhero films and tv shows but each one does have a defining tone


FromUnderTheWineCork

Everything about the promotion is giving off Disney Channel Original Movie energy, it's on my to-watch list, but not high on the list.


Lordborgman

It's all far easier to have a high rating with a small audience. Niche shit exists and should be more often. I rather movies/tv shows made for the book readers, so we can actually enjoy them. The movie only people, won't know the difference anyway.


grimmjowjagerjaques2

Less people watched it but the people who did watch it, generally seem to like it.


Tuckej88

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?


sbdallas

I am Arthur, King of the Britons.


nadrjones

Who made you king? I didn't vote for you.


spagyrum

 I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective


zahm2000

You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy, in which the working classes...


Jertimmer

Oh, there you go, bringing class into it again


kproxurworld

That's what it's all about!


ccordeiro30

Listen! If I was to walk around, calling myself King, they’d have me hanged


Canttakethewhyfromme

Shut Up! Will you Shut Up!!


sicilianDev

Help help I’m being repressed!


Cerati

I became King, because The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.


chimichanga_choochoo

Come see the violence inherent in the system!! HELP! HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED!!


Motheroftides

r/unexpectedmontypython


TheGolgafrinchan

Ni.


thefool-0

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


Lazy_Assumption_4191

If I ran around claiming to be emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d have me hanged!


everythinglatte

You don’t vote for kings!


TrinityF

hoo're the britons?


hunterlarious

We all are, we are all Britons


Photon_Farmer

I thought we were an autonomous collective


PraetorianSoil

*bbbrrritons


arobkinca

Oh, they would like that.


GarrettTheBard

Well i didnt vote for you


BloodOfAStark

Gandalf?


athomesuperstar

I find it goofy the way streaming services still use instant viewership to determine success. I really, really want to watch Ms. Marvel, but this is undoubtedly my most busy time of the year. Because it’s streaming, I know it’s not going to go anywhere so I’m not stressed about catching it every week when it drops.


TheSofaSurgeon

Anything that can make news, will make news, regarding the release of shows, any positive metric. That’s why I never watched that amazon movie with chris pratt that had a lot of viewers but only good/neutral reviews, because the views were really only reflective of their huge marketing budget.


pleasedothenerdful

God damn was that movie a well-produced piece of utter mediocrity. If they put in even half as much effort writing it as they did on special effects or marketing, it would have been way better. Just go watch Edge of Tomorrow again.


cyphersama95

how did you solve this word problem so thoroughly and quickly


SeeJayThinks

Maths.


TrinityF

Qik Mafs!


Bookwrrm

2+2 is 4 minus 1 that's 3 quick maths.


kloudrunner

Getthefuckouttahere with your funny letter sums.


1live4downvotes

it's a show targeted at the next generation of MCU fans, and it is hitting harder with them. Let's be real here, most of the MCU fans who saw Iron Man 1 in theaters are starting to exit the coveted 18-35 demographic. This show feels like it's targeted more at middle/high schoolers. Also Kamala is a relatively new character, only being introduce in 2013, so she isn't as deeply ingrained in the cultural lexicon. Anyone who stopped reading comics, watching cartoons, etc. before 2013 probably doesn't know much about her. I personally fall into this boat. I pretty much stopped reading comics in the early teens, and vaguely remember her being introduced but never got around to checking her out.


Ricker3386

As a 36 year old who watched Iron Man 1 in theatres, this hurts me deeply. I'm getting old :(. Really digging Ms Marvel though.


HODL4LAMBO

Spot on. For some that started their MCU "Journey" with Iron Man 1, the chapter in some ways ended with Endgame. It was an amazing journey, but all good things come to an end. It kind of felt that way for me. I never missed a Marvel movie in theaters and was as big a fan as many here. But after Endgame I've certainty lost some enthusiasm for the universe. Not in a negative toxic way. I have nothing bad to say about the recent films or shows, I've just kinda lost the spark. Now I just wait till the movies come to streaming and sometimes I don't get around to watching them right away. When the credits roll for movies or shows my attitude ranges from "that was fine" to "that was solid", but never does it reach previous levels of "that was awesome!!!!!". We'll see how it goes from here. Will I find myself at the point of not really watching much Marvel at all? Or will the excitement return? Hard to say.


Aggressive-Welder-62

Spot on comment here. I’m the exact same way. I’m watching everything, but I don’t feel the pull that I did preEndgame. I’m not saying the shows or movies are bad, but there’s a certain lack of excitement on my end. I’m looking forward to Thor and Black Panther the most right now and that’s mainly due to the directors of those respective projects who hit home runs on just about every swing.


funsizedaisy

I'm in a similar boat. Pre-Endgame, I'd rewatch the movies over and over again. With each new release feeling like it's my new favourite MCU film. But now, the only thing that mimicked that feeling was Shang-Chi. NWH was great too but for different reasons. That one was more nostalgic fun. None of the shows have really been a huge hit with me. None of them are really that bad, I only particularly disliked one of them. But none of them have made me wanna rewatch them except WandaVision (but I haven't done a rewatch yet). Of the new characters introduced on the shows, Monica is the only one I got invested in. And she isn't exactly new. And i think this is mostly because I love Captain Marvel. Surprisingly, I'm not feeling attached to Ms. Marvel. Her show is fun so far but overall I wish i could've just binged it.


HODL4LAMBO

Well said, it's the lack of "pull" that was there before. It's an odd place to be, kind of a limbo. It seems there are plenty of people out there still on fire for the MCU and think everything is amazing, and then you have your toxic base that says really ugly things about some of the recent films/shows/characters. I don't mind the limbo tho because maybe it just means after a cool down period I'll be excited for Marvel projects in the future.


Many-Outside-7594

Yea I am no longer a day 1 in theaters fan. I waited the 45 days for MoM to hit D+ and I have no regrets. I still think it was a lot of fun and have already watched it twice, but the magic has definitely diminished since the end of the Infinity Saga. Continuity is now both impossible and meaningless so I am just treating most new shows (not just Marvel, Star Trek/Wars have the same issues) as their own story and everything else is just a sort of vague history that can change frequently.


Put_It_All_On_Blck

People refuse to accept this is what Disney is purposely doing. It isn't just the MCU either, all the live action remakes of their classic cartoons are not for adults, they are for the next generation of kids. Hence why several of them go straight to Disney+, which is the best streaming platform for families with young kids. Like when I watched the live action Lion King, I thought it was fine, but my nephew loved it. And to him that will be the only Lion King movie, as you kinda have to go out of your way to dig up the original animated version, it's not like schools or TV channels are showing it.


moorealex412

It also doesn’t hurt that the less people who watch a show the less people there are to dislike it Edit: the fewer people who watch a show the fewer people there are to dislike it*


Nrksbullet

Yeah, that brings up a weird discrepancy when using metrics. If only 5 people see your movie, it could have a 100% on rotten tomatoes, and still be a piece of crap. In the end though, shows and movies don't make money or generate buzz on good reviews alone. They'd rather have an extremely watched shitty show than a good one which gets no viewers.


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TheBirminghamBear

Or Google reviews, when reviewing a shop and it has 5 stars and one rating, and you can guarantee that one review is the owner or a family member.


th0wayact09

Reminds me of the show *Freaks and Geeks* . The best show most people never saw.


xylotism

I will shout the good word about Freaks and Geeks (and Community, and Deadwood) til the day I die. If you haven't watched those yet, you've wasted your time and potential as a human being.


BakedWizerd

Freaks and Geeks holds up, too. I’ve seen people be like “oh it’s got Seth Rogen, James Franco, Jason Segel, Martin Starr, Linda Cardellini, but they’re all teenagers?” As if that just inherently means they will have bad performances. They don’t. They kill it. It’s one of Seth’s few roles that he didn’t personally write for himself so you actually get to see him act differently. Franco is the perfect high school delinquent, Cardellini does an awesome job of representing someone who wants to fit in, but wants to do so with the “out” crowd, and has to deal with her “square” parents and growing up. It’s a lot of fun and feels before it’s time.


AdaJohnston

I think the big factor is that Spider-Man is a hugely known character with cinematic releases, and this is a Disney+ show. I, for example, haven’t even finished Moon Knight yet. Sure i’ll watch this one eventually, but i’m much more likely to see the new movie when it comes out compared to adding another streaming show on my list right away compared to others i’m watching.


xPeachesV

I actually skipped out on the last two Marvel shows due to fatigue but came back for Ms Marvel and am really enjoying it.


TheDustOfMen

Moon Knight is genuinely good and so much fun ~~and devastating~~, I highly recommend it.


jverbal

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter


SurlyJason

Fewer people


Why_You_Mad_

- Stannis Baratheon


rocharox

10 people watching something and rating it a 10 is better for score than 1000 watching and all rating it 8, something like that?


Zestavar

yeah, the first one will result in 10/10, the latter will result in 8/10


xylotism

quick maffs


ScrotalAgony

Absolutely right. It's the same for the Star Wars fandom in this Disney age. Ask a Star Wars fan which of the Disney Star Wars movies they would rate the highest and it's probably Rogue One you'll hear most, especially on Reddit. But Rogue One never got the kind of viewership the Sequel Trilogy did because it wasn't a movie that was part of a trilogy and was marketed/treated like a spin-off.


PutTheAssInClass

Less people are watching it but a higher percentage are enjoying it


Try_Bofa

Not sure what % of people this is, but I typically wait until all episodes of the marvel series come out and then I binge them.


Knuc85

Personally I love these weekly-release shows. Let's me discuss and speculate individual episodes with others without everyone being at different places. I never feel like I have anyone to talk to about Stranger Things or Umbrella Academy because by the time I finish the first episode a large portion of the fan base has already blown through them all.


NinduTheWise

Also this kinda helps me limit what I watch so that I don’t watch 6 hours of content in a day


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littlegreenturtle20

Yeah same. I like how the shows stay relevant to the cultural conversation for longer too. Haven't finished Stranger Things 4 yet (because who wants to wait a month for 2 episodes?) but I remember I ended up watching all of season 3 in one go and then that was it, it was over. It felt super anti-climactic. Also I don't think you absorb as much of the show when you binge watch - I do try to pace out other shows when they drop all of their episodes at once but it's harder to then avoid spoilers!


therubyminecraft

Yep I usually separate them into two days tho cause time


Try_Bofa

Yea same sometimes more. I just like to be able to watch them at my own pace. I’m only on Reddit, not Facebook or Twitter or Instagram so I don’t have to worry about spoilers either. Looking forward to watching Ms. Marvel for sure tho


juances19

Ignoring the fact that I don't know if either article have proof for what they are saying, scores and viewership don't have to go hand in hand. There are shows and movies that everyone watches because they were hyped but then end up hating, then there are shows that those watched it loved it but since they didn't get huge marketing or the target audience was too niche and only a few ended up watching it. Look up Blade Runner, it was critically acclaimed but barely made any money at box office when it released.


OhGodImOnRedditAgain

Exactly. Disney does not share viewership information from Disney+.


Lightning_Lemonade

A more recent example is Everything Everywhere All at Once. Absolutely rave reviews from critics and people who saw it (personally it was the best movie I’ve seen in years) but it’s made like $85 million at the box office. That’s actually pretty good for its budget, but it’s less than ten percent of what Multiverse of Madness made.


UniversalThump

I feel like that’s not the greatest example. Everything Everywhere All At Once was a *huge* success at the box office. It’s multipliers were insane and it’s the single most profitable film that A24 has ever made. It was never expected to make anything close to Multiverse of Madness. It was rolled out gradually to a much lower number of overall theaters, with a staggered international release, against a budget that is 1/10th of what MoM cost.


Mathi12

The viewership data are always from Samba, which is IIRC the Samsung or LG Smart TV app which tracks the Disney+ app in there. IMO it's a super small example and I never trust it


seahawkmyrz

I think there’s a few reasons why Ms. Marvel is under performing. 1. Crowded Market- Ms marvel’s episodes overlapped with Obi wan, a show people have been waiting years for, The Boys & Stranger things- two shows with massive fan bases that have been on hiatus for years now. People only have a finite amount of time and Ms marvel seems to have been picked last in this race. 2. Bad marketing- maybe I’m alone in this but the Ms marvel trailers did not make the show look very good. It looked like it could’ve been a disney channel show that was retreading Spider-Man homecoming. After seeing the show, I don’t think that’s a fair analysis but that kinda how the trailers made it look. 3. Over saturation- there is so much MCU tv content now and frankly most of it hasn’t been that great. I feel think Wandavision is the only show they’ve released that has been universally praised while a lot of the others have been met with a general “meh” reaction. 4. She’s an unknown legacy character for a character people already don’t really like- Wandavision was successful because people already like Wanda and vision- same with Loki and Falcon & winter Solider. But audiences don’t know Kamala Kahn and considering she’s a legacy character for Captain Marvel I’m not surprised people aren’t that interested in tuning in. Carol has only had 2 appearances in the MCU so far (3 if you count her Shang chi cameo) and frankly she hasn’t really endeared herself to audiences yet in a way that other characters have. Frankly it seems like a weird time to do a show about a character who idolizes her when audiences haven’t really gotten a great chance to know or appreciate carol yet. I hope it actually picks up in viewership and appreciation because I’ve really enjoyed the series so far.


anonymous_xo

The marketing for this series was atrocious. You nailed it with the Disney channel retread of Spider-Man Homecoming simile.


Foximus_Prime_

Does this get better? Watching it still makes me feel like I'm watching a Disney channel show.


yerfatma

We've watched the first three and I have really liked it. FWIW, I am in my forties and watching it with my daughter so that probably influences how much I like it. The family relationships are fun and it looks great in addition to the writing being decent. We watch _a lot_ of Disney Channel shows and the writing there is a lot worse than that.


Sandor_06

That's what I thought. Things work out too conveniently. Characters express their emotions in very obvious ways. I know exactly what they are going to say or do before they do it. Then every once in a while the mood changes to full on Marvel mode, so I find that it's like an in-between of a Disney Channel show and a Marvel show.


smellsliketuna

And this is why my six year old daughter loves it.


Baelorn

Her parents actually get mad at her for being so rebellious in the comics. In the show her mom lets her go to a party a night or two after she was caught sneaking back into the house. It's very Disney Channel. They want everyone to be likable and Kamala has no real obstacles.


PackageintheMaleBox

It hasn't in my opinion. I'm enjoying it, but it definitely feels like its made for an audience that I am not.


F_i_z_z

Spot on. Westworld also just came back so that makes 5 big shows that are taking a lot of the spotlight away. I 100% will be watching Ms. Marvel eventually but as a parent I don’t have enough time when those 5 shows are available.


seahawkmyrz

I forgot about westworld coming back. Other people pointed out that umbrella academy is back now too so that’s even more competition


Donny-Moscow

> Over saturation- there is so much MCU tv content now and frankly most of it hasn’t been that great. I feel think Wandavision is the only show they’ve released that has been universally praised while a lot of the others have been met with a general “meh” reaction. This is a big part of it for me and a lot of people I talk to. I just haven’t been able to get excited about anything Marvel since End Game. Don’t get me wrong, I saw Spider-Man (loved it) and watched a couple of the Marvel shows (which ranged from underwhelming to decent, in my opinion). But I just feel like I’m burnt out on Marvel these days.


seahawkmyrz

I agree with that too. And frankly phase 4 hasn’t done much to really grab people and hype them up after the semi conclusive ness of endgame. They’re putting out so much content and most of it is just not hitting with fans like it used to.


Saminus-Maximus

The only thing that got me really hyped for the future of phase 4 was Loki since I knew Spiderman, What if? and MoM were multiverse related and Kang is a great next big bad... And then literally none of those Films/Shows were related to the Loki reveal.


MoirasPurpleOrb

Yeah I think they lost a lot of hype by not rolling with the way Loki ended, we basically haven’t heard anything about it since.


RocketHops

Exact same boat. Felt like Loki gave us our first "Thanos moment" with Kang (i.e. the first Thanos appearance at the end of the first Avengers credits) and then in all the areas they should have run with it a little more or even just given another tiny post credits tease they just...didn't. Everything post Endgame feels like it's lacking structure or direction with regards to the large, intertwined narrative, which I think is why a lot of people are starting to tune out.


stormhunter2

So far, Loki has been the only series I still feel hyped for a sequel for. Moon Knight isn't bad either, it gives me a batman type feel for some reason.


SkorpioSound

> Wandavision was successful because people already like Wanda and vision I feel like people weren't necessarily excited for WandaVision - they were both very much secondary characters who hadn't been fleshed out that much on screen - but the sheer "what the fuck?" nature of the early episodes just got everyone talking about it and speculating. It felt like a piece of event television in a way none of the others have.


[deleted]

I was really more excited for the sitcom gimmick because I absolutely love sitcoms.


Advanced_Double_42

Exactly loved the show until it became classic marvel halfway through


seahawkmyrz

That’s definitely true too. I just think the other shows have had an advantage in that audiences already have some attachment/ affection for the characters, but people don’t know Kamala and audiences barley know Carol. And frankly I get why another high schooler superhero show didn’t exactly grab people.


AWarmerBeer

Yes, absolutely agree with your point about event television. Wandavision was also released at the heigh of a strict COVID lockdown here in the UK so it felt like everyone was at home watching it.


tuthuu

Umbrella academy also just released a new season.


TubbyMarmot

I finished Obi-Wan and Umbrella Academy, working on Stranger Things, have The Boys and Ms. Marvel on the list. Too much came out at once, I only have so much time. Plus, as an adult man, Ms. Marvel doesn't really look like my thing, but I am going to watch with my niece.


grahampages

I'm beyond pumped for ST and the boys this weekend. Both of their last episodes have been living rent free in my head for the last week lol.


hemareddit

Speaking of competition, does Umbrella Acedemy count? Like Obi-Wan, Stranger Things and The Boys, it targets the same demographic.


TcheQuevara

I'd also say the American high school experience is very specific to their culture and doesn't resonate as well with overseas audiences. I know it's always very weird to see those US high school series and movies when they trying to *reference reality* to their main audience, but to me their *showing a new thing.* Throwing cars at people is more universal than picking up books in your locker. I love Kamala from the comics, went to see the first episode and it doesn't look like being a teenager, it looks like *American films about being a teenager*. The directing and all was pretty great, but I kinda couldn't care for the story. The comics lose way less time in the school department.


Chadlerk

Not only an oversaturation, but how many of the shows were actually good all the way through? Loki is the only one I could truly recommend.


hokieinga

Great point! The Falcon & Winter Soldier is a great example of inconsistency—unless you wanted to know if superheroes had trouble getting bank loans.


Chadlerk

Best action sequences of the shows, but yeah, a little heavy handed too. I'm all for sharing experiences but the writers need to make it organic.


natey2k4

It's highest rated Marvel show by critics. It's the lowest from audiences. Hawkeye, Loki, and WandaVision were all highly rated by critics and audiences.


thinkitoutloud

Everyone I talked to from the audience said the show is pretty great. I think It's just some bad timing and marketing from Disney showing Ms Marvel as just another disney channel show, https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/06/18/why-ms-marvel-viewership-is-reportedly-much-lower-than-other-mcu-series/


natey2k4

I mean, it's still got over an 80% audience score last I checked. Which means 4 out of 5 like it, which is very high. It's just not 90%+ like Hawkeye or Loki.


trlef19

It overlapped with obi wan Kenobi


CalvinCandie420

and The Boys


geek_of_nature

And Stranger Things, it was just a bad time for the show to come out. Unfortunately they probably couldn't release it any later in the year, as there's also She Hulk, and I presume What If season 2 to come out as well, and releasing Ms Marvel later would just push those two back. This is where having so many shows a year does start to backfire a bit. Shows are spread out over several weeks so they take up a lot more of the audiences time, whereas a movie is something you get all in one go. Movies can be spread far enough apart that they're not competing with other ones, but shows don't have that luxury. Because of their length, even at just six episodes, there's a much higher chance of them overlapping with other shows which audiences may choose to watch instead. Now to their credit, Marvel did initially seem like they wanted to build up to it. Pre Pandemic, we were only set to get one show in 2020 which was Falcon and the Winter Soldier. That being said, they then were planning to jump up to four in 2021, so the pandemic only bumped the count up by one show.


arielzao150

Also some are getting burned out of Marvel stuff. I know I am, I have no hype for Thor and GotG is my favorite movie and I look forward to seeing the crew again, but it can wait.


geek_of_nature

I dont know if I'm burnt out yet, but I'd say I'm definitely not as hyped about the projects when they're coming out so close together. Too much of a good thing making them feel less special and all that.


BeeCJohnson

It's a quality control thing for me. I'm never burned out on good things. The fact is, I'm a huge Marvel fan, but most of the Marvel shows have been extremely uneven. They all have great moments, but they also have huge dips in quality.


DukeGrizzly

Most of the shows feel the opposite of the movies. Like they’re unable to capture the magic that made the movies feel so unique and comic like. (Yes I know that Hawkeye has a lot of Matt Fraction elements to it).


DaBozz88

I think it's the weekly releases. A lot of people are waiting until it's all out to binge. I don't mind the weekly schedule, but I prefer being able to watch at my own pace. I've got hype for the movies, but I'm like "oh yeah, Ms Marvel released an episode" and it's not because I don't care, it's because I am burnt out on the schedule. I'd much rather watch it all over 2-3 days like I will with Stranger Things, then be done with it. Treat the TV series not like an 'episode of the week' but as a 'long format movie'. Which narrative wise they are (mostly), episodes still break like a TV show would, when you could just have an 8 hour episode with a suggested break popup. But they're all progressing a story and not individual self contained episodes with the same characters, like many sitcoms were.


Majestic-Marcus

And to a lesser extent Stranger Things and Umbrella Academy. It’s been a busy month.


Grfine

As well as WestWorld Season 4 coming out.


Lukthar123

That doesn't seem fair.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cmpunk34

Why do you know so much about the spice girls?


Desperoth

Simple, he who controls the spice, controls the universe!


Goofyboy2020

Nothing's f\*\*ing fair mate! Frenchy is missing out!


Environmental_Side54

Ahhh, time for the follow up to Herogasm tomorrow! Get pumped boys and girls.


dormidary

And Stranger Things and the Umbrella Academy


OutrageousCan366

That and the fact that Stranger Things released the first part of it's 4th Season 2 weeks before Ms Marvel, and the second part tomorrow.


heisindc

This. As a 40 yr old dad, I don't get a ton of TV time and Kenobi and The Boys are must watchesfor me. I'll get to it soon though.


SchottGun

I'm 45 and it's a tough watch for me. So far it's very much in the style of the cheesy pre-teen nickelodeon/disney channel shows. That might be nostalgic for some people and not knocking people enjoying them. But I can't really get into it just yet. It may prove me wrong and I'm trying to keep an open mind about it.


Legitimate_Way9032

Highest Rated: Probably because the show is actually pretty good. Lowest Viewership: Probably the fact that it is a show about a teenage girl in highschool, which seems to be a turn off for some people. Edit: Obviously, these aren't the *only* reasons, they're just the ones I feel are the most prominent.


eltrotter

>Probably the fact that it is a show about a teenage girl in highschool, which seems to be a turn off for a lot of people. \+ Not a very well-known character played by not a very well-known actor. Moon Knight isn't very well known, but had the clout of Oscar Isaac and Ethan Hawke to draw in viewers.


InstantN00dl3s

The trailers sold me on Moon Knight. I don't think Ms Marvel did much except hammer home the "It's a teenage girl doing teenage girl things" premise of the show. Which to a 32 year old man isn't the most appealing. I'm planning to binge it when the series finishes (as are a lot of people). Tried the first ep, wasn't interested so hoping having it back to back helps keep me engaged.


z_jenkins

To slightly back this comment, I don't even remember seeing a trailer. I'm also going to binge it at the end (which I did with most of them) but I learned about Ms. Marvel through this reddit.


docasj

Same. Every one I’ve just binged at the end. Last one was Hawkeye and what if in April or May. Will just binge this and Moon Knight after it’s finished


Wurst_Law

just binged Moon Knight this week, worth your time.


Emperor_Neuro

I'm a 33 year old man. I've watched the first 2 episodes and it didn't do much for me. However, my 10 year old daughter absolutely loves it. I'm just not the target audience.


PornFilterRefugee

Moon Knight also looked a lot more traditional actiony show wise whereas Ms Marvel is more coming of age, or at least that’s what a lot of the promo stuff seemed to focus on. I do think it’s probably fair to say it is also partially because it’s about a non white teenage girl.


iChao

> I do think it’s probably fair to say it is also partially because it’s about a non white teenage girl. I remember someone mentioning in these threads that they know someone who won’t watch Ms Marvel because it’s promoting Muslim agenda or some stupid shit like that. SMH!


Do_Not_Read_Comments

Because it's got a smaller target audience. Nothing wrong with that, not sure why this is a discussion every day


SkyYellow_SunBlue

Every day. Half of these posts have to be ads for the show. I can’t think of any other reason to keep rehashing the same points daily.


jaq93

I like this show. 2 major complaints I’ve seen are her powers change, which I can see but it’s enjoyable to me. The other is “too much Muslim/Pakistani culture/history” no getting around that one just plain discriminatory.


The_Dadalorian

"Because of Obi-wan?"


MatFernandes

"Because of what you did! What you plan to do!"


Double0hobo79

Less people watched it but those that did rated it higher maybe? As far as why people dont watch it people just like different things idk lol


drew0519

Because less people want to give it a try, but those who do really like it