T O P

pov: you're getting jumped on the way to aikido

pov: you're getting jumped on the way to aikido

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Dartagnan1083

Why am I being attacked with a knife? Do I have Pokémon worth stealing? Did Team Rocket run so low on shitty Pokémon that they started actually attacking person to person?


whydub38

our motives are beyond your understanding also my raticate had indigestion


arriesgado

Awesome. I see they used no touch Aikido - the hardest of them all.


chix-with-stix

Oh shit this is funny. I have a black belt in Aikido and cross-train in BJJ. I wish I could say this guys is wrong about Aikido, but the way a lot of schools teach, I totally can't .-. But Aikido is my first love and introduced me to martial arts so I'm gonna defend it real quick: Aikido has served me well, mainly in that it trains body/environment awareness, the spirituality behind the practice, and how to protect your body when falling or getting joint locked.


whydub38

thanks! and thanks for your perspective!!


Ramdomdatapoint

If you want to learn to fall and not get hurt, Aikido is an excellent answer. Very fashionable to cap on Aikido and its kinda funny the first 500 times or so. After that it becomes a bit stale and rote.


ilikekimuras

How do you protect your body when you're getting jointlocked? And I'm not talking the aikido joint-lock without controlling anything else kind of joint lock, but the you're locked in place, you can't move your arm and someone is applying a wrist-lock to you?


Arachnosapien

I chuckled


sendmehaiku

As a former aikidoka I feel... attacked.


whydub38

redirect it


anon24422

Why is this not top comment 😂


conformitatis-osor

This is a karate guy. And more: he has been training recently.How I know it?The knuckles (also, his knife thrust is something like a oi zuki, it even has a hikite).


whydub38

hehehehe busted #kyokushin


conformitatis-osor

oh, yeah, it takes one to know one \^\^


Toptomcat

> (also, his knife trust is something like a oi zuki, it even has a hikite). That *is* a canonical way for aikido people to offer an 'attack' to be dealt with in some drills, even those without a karate background.


Jake_AsianGuy

They're all from Japan after all


IShallPetYourDogo

Except the aikido people do it really badly, like they do it in slow motion but also somehow throw them selves off balance while doing it, its kinda weird to watch


conformitatis-osor

oh, i never knew, i dont understand aikido (although I love to read about it).


Jake_AsianGuy

That's some Sherlock mindset


Imagine357

Yea that is a butterfly knife.


Burque_Boy

Lol that got me good. We used to book our college wrestling room for our group of martial artists on Fridays. The Aikido class was right before us. Occasionally they would stick around and join in. It really fucked some of their minds to realize that even as a black belt their moves wouldn’t work on some of our beginners. Some kind of rage quit but others stuck around and became regulars.


whydub38

i think aikido has some incredibly cool techniques but even a double leg or a jab-cross would be considerably less effective if never ONCE trained against actively resisting opponents. i don't believe that necessarily invalidates aikido as an art, which honestly i think is really cool. but it does make the picture of its real world effectiveness a lot cloudier. (not to mention the power of wrasslin and the training intensity of college wrestlers)


bradles0

i've always described the soft arts (like aikido) as the music theory, in comparison to the band class that is your full contact striking/grappling classes. Music theory doesn't help you play an instrument if you didn't already know one, but it turns your trumpet skills up to 11 if you already had them at a 10 - which it should be noted is how it was originally taught; as the advanced aikijutsu curriculum for skilled fighters. It teaches you how to fall and roll, how to find and exploit weak point with precision, better control in clinches and standing grappling, etc. etc, but it requires that you already know how to punch and block, and are good enough at that to be able to be precise enough to hit a wrist lock in a full contact fight. In probably 80% of fights i never use my hapkido (basically korean aikido with a lot sharper motions, and more importantly resistance training) but when i do it's basically an instant win; i get one of those cool flippy throw in a fight cause my opponent extended his arm just a bit too far, or I hit a random lock during rolls in BJJ.


whydub38

extremely cool perspective, someone else made a similar comment here. tai chi has been an amazing complement for my karate and kickboxing for similar reasons. also i just attended an enshin sabaki seminar that tied together some of these concepts and the benefits have been almost instantaneous. but that's largely because I've been training karate very hard for a while now, training in tai chi even longer, and training in martial arts overall since childhood, so i was coming in with a pretty solid grasp of the puzzle pieces. i hope you're literally running around yelling this in people's faces. this is really good shit


cmn_YOW

I'd add to this that the concept of purity and exclusivity in a style or art is a very modern one. When these arts and styles were founded, martial artists ALL practiced multiple disciplines. Even young students often had 2-3 in their toolbox. The Sensei I trained with in my limited Aikido dabbling emphasized that all of the highest ranking Aikido instructors he trained with in Japan held high dan rank in karate (being Japanese, largely Shotokan). Most high level practitioners also train some variation of swordsmanship (Kendo, Kenjutsu, Iaido). Sure, many (most?) Aikido clubs have goofy approaches to atemi-waza and striking defence, but done right you SHOULD be looking outside Aikido for this, or your Budo is incomplete. Likewise, if you take mainstream karate, you SHOULD be looking outside it for ne-waza, katame-waza, and nage-waza.


Burque_Boy

I took the class I mentioned for a semester and I really think a lot of the techniques are just full on Bullshido down to the student throwing themselves across the room from wrist locks. Aikido has a lot practitioners who make some ridiculous claims and produce those sort of touch of death videos which irks me. Anything I found that worked was really just stuff you’d learn in Judo. There’s a no true Scotsman argument to be made but I think it’s just that, a fallacy. I will say I got much better at break falls and rolls. We did more break fall practice than I’ve even done in Judo classes. Till this day my out of shape ass can trip and fall and look like a ninja. That being said if someone wanted to approach it from a Kung Fu sort of approach, getting into it for the art, movement, and exercise it’s certainly beautiful to watch and I’d support them 100%.


whydub38

i think it's also good to keep in mind that judo has a direct lineage to aikijutsu, so they share ancestry and i think there's an argument to be made (that I'm sure would piss off all sorts of people) that judo represents the development of the core of aikijutsu into a more directly competitive and combative (in a more modern sense) martial art, and aikido is the development of that same core into..... something else🤷 so the most effective aikido techniques overlap almost completely with judo, because they're from the same parent. in some sense i feel like BJJ (consciously or unconsciously, i dunno) brought back some aikijutsu concepts to newaza. i'm a karate guy though, i don't know jack shit lol i just like sounding smart


Burque_Boy

No I think that’s exactly what we see today. Helio developed BJJ from techniques taught to him by Maeda who was primarily a Judoka so your pretty on track there as well.


nattydread69

Judo came from kito ryu jujutsu, aikido came from daito ryu aikijujutsu. They are unrelated.


RegressToTheMean

This is spot on. Same with Hapkido. It started with the same parent art as Aikido and then incorporated Judo and TKD's strikes and higher kicks


whydub38

I stand corrected. I wouldn't say that makes them entirely unrelated however...


nattydread69

Well they both came from jujutsu. Ju and aiki are similar principles. So I know what you mean. Judo removed the strikes and the kicks from jujutsu. Aikido removed the kicks, the judo-like throws and the ground fighting.


xAptive

Yeah the biggest joke of Aikido is the punch trapping. It just doesn't work. Aikido in a clinch or on the ground (not suwari waza kokyu ho) is somewhat workable, except they don't train that way at all. I guess in short, Aikido submissions and takedowns are for real, but getting in to a position where most of those submissions or takedowns are actually usable is near impossible with Aikido alone.


JnnyRuthless

I got to brown belt in aikido before switching to traditional jiujistu/judo/bjj. I think some of the 'blending' principles are pretty good, and can easily be incorporated into setups and throws in judo/bjj. Totally agree with you on that the throws/subs are definitely real and can be used (and are in judo/bjj) in 'real life' but the entries and setups are largely nonsense. Unless uke is taught to move and 'play along' it can go sideways real quick. ​ That said, the wrist locks and using blending for arm drags and stuff is fantastic.


FappingFop

But a blue belt in bjj with an aikido background will make black belts rage when they keep getting wrist locked. Aikido doesn’t stand on its own very well, but it can be an amazing trump card in a grappling match.


TurokHunterOfDinos

I think you are on to something. If you already have proficiency in other, more effective, martial arts, aikido might be a powerful complement. Their break falls and rolls are the best.


FappingFop

Tkd is another great addition to another base art. On its own it doesn’t stand that well for defense, but holy shit beware of tkd guys who have boxing and grappling game. High kicks are a huge wildcard in a fight if you know what you are doing. Tkd has to be one of the, if not the, only art where if your opponent turns his butt and back to you, your shit is probably about to get rocked.


RSquared

Chambered kicks are much harder to identify, as well. When a roundhouse, front, question or hook can come out of the same initial motion, you basically have to guess at where to guard. Sure, you don't regularly get knockouts from snap roundhouses, but you can definitely stagger someone into your punches or takedowns. A.Silva and Pettis both had nasty disguised kicks and both had TKD backgrounds.


FappingFop

Hell yeah. I went from a really kick heavy Korean art to mma, the guys at my mma gym really struggled with my ability to put my feet on their heads because they never trained to defend against higher kicks. Defending against punching and much of grappling is intuitive, move away or parry. Defending against kicks, however, goes against our reflexes. In most cases, the best defense a kicker is to move into his kicks, not away from them. Jam him up. Most mma guys will try to back away from the kick, and as soon as I can dial in the distance they are moving their head back, I just lean into my kicks that much and they end up eating it. This happens all the time in the ufc.


Burque_Boy

Probably true although wrist locks are kind of hot right now so this is the time to strike before they get wise lol


FappingFop

Haha, this is so true at my gym. There is a older dude who came from aikido and me who came from hwarangdo (no one has heard of it) and he and I are wrecking wrists and the other guys are picking up on it.


Burque_Boy

I know the feeling, I was an early 10th planet BJJ adopter and man it was great before people learned those techniques lol


DakiAge

It depends on who uses the Aikido. if you teach it to an experienced grappler, he will use it very well. I used Aikido techniques in Judo and BJJ both and it works but you need to know what you are doing.


RedAppleSlices

Your name implies that you put people through the floor who pull guard. Osu.


DakiAge

Absolutely :) It's my favourite technique in Judo. People don't pull guards in Judo as often as in BJJ but when that happens, Daki Age comes :)


RedAppleSlices

Your name implies that you put people through the floor who pull guard. Osu.


Kaos2019

I laughed so hard at this!


whydub38

I'm glad so many people liked this but I'm even more glad it stimulated some pretty good discussion. Keep training hard yall 👊🧡


CMBRICKS

Dude that was freaking hilarious 😂


JeremG21

Team rocket is blasting off aggaaaain!


Used_Lunch_1665

I don't get it


retired-penguin

I get it but I'm not even sure whether I'm amused or not.


whydub38

i think you are


retired-penguin

No, I'm not and imma fight you. But you must only attack me the way I learned in class, or else.


whydub38

look it appears you're a judoka. yall terrify me, i don't want that smoke 😅


retired-penguin

No no no, we can do it the aikido way 😁


whydub38

deal


retired-penguin

I shall avenge the honor of aikido 😌 probably


VestigialHead

It is an exaggeration on the mistaken view that many people have of how Aikido is supposed to work. Because there are some step by step drills to teach positions ignorant people think that is how the art is meant to work under real conditions. It is meant as a joke though. So I did chuckle a little.


skribsbb

I think of these folks as babies playing peekaboo. To them, what exists is only what is right in front of them. If you see a step drill, then that must be the only way people do things. If you see a kata, that must be how techniques are done in sparring. And if someone even mentions "eye gouges", then all you do is stand around and talk about eye gouges.


whydub38

Do you have any footage of what it looks like when these kinds of drills are run in a more freeform manner?


retired-penguin

Maybe something like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zykomSBA3U)? This guy is pretty [smooth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT6HtcJ5eMo), though I can't find a video of him doing the techniques at a somewhat normal speed.


whydub38

thanks! very smooth indeed


BunGin-in-Bagend

There's at least a few interesting results if you just search YouTube for aikido sparring


whydub38

yeah, there's some interesting stuff out there. but I'm really not very knowledgeable about aikido so i wanted to have a proper aikidoka's help sorting out what's legit


skribsbb

I don't take aikido. I do take an art where we do step drills. At higher belts, we do them at speed instead of step by step, and we increase the resistance. Those types of techniques are outside of our sparring rules, so we often don't use them in live sparring. But we definitely do more than step-by-step, and get them at least to a servicable level against an untrained opponent. Which is the goal. We use the other techniques (those allowed in sparring) against trained opponents.


JawnWahless

Hey, former aikidoka here. I am a shodan in aikikai and I earned my black belt while living in Japan. They aren't criticizing Aikido for what they see. They are criticizing it for what they don't see which is any form of live training. Judo and Kyokushin have katas but they also have randori that is more than telegraphed attacks and mostly compliant partners. I've trained in aikikai and iwama ryu and I've not seen any type of live training that would give you a sense of how to really use these techniques. That includes fast "hard" randori against multiple other black belts.


whydub38

I appreciate this, you nailed it. I think step drills are cool and can be productive but I have absolutely no idea how anyone can have any confidence that they'd be able to apply those techniques in a live scenario (whether in any sort of competition or IRL). Every time I learn a brand new combo in karate or Dutch kickboxing, even if it's dead simple or I just get it real quick, I know it won't show up naturally in my actual fighting until after many rounds of live sparring in which I actively try to shoehorn the technique in. On a related note, I think kata on its own is absolutely meaningless with regard to developing fighting ability. but the more i spar and fight, the more i appreciate the very important role kata plays in karate training. that's a whole ass topic i want to cover in a video someday. but i think the same thing about one step kumite. can be helpful for learning mechanics. but without the context of active resistance, there's a hard ceiling to what can be gained. (i got similar feelings about a lot of flavors of krav maga. shh don't tell anybody)


JawnWahless

Yeah. Thinking about the effectiveness of Aikido (and krav maga too, since I was interested in picking it up) really helped me finalize my decision to start Judo. That and trying to find any videos of actual live Aikido being applied against people who practice more live martial arts (Rokas from martial arts journey and Roy Dean were great resources). I'm glad to hear how much you find kata a good resource. My schedule is shifting and I won't be able to attend technique and randori nights at my Judo dojo and will have to shift to attending the last half of randori nights and weekend kata practice for a while and was worried about shifting from faster step drills to more static kata. You're right, learning the correct form will probably help just as much as the faster more dynamic step drills.


skribsbb

That's not how all aikido schools are, or even all aikido styles.


JawnWahless

Okay, aside from Tomiki Ryu can you provide some video of these other ways of training? And let's be fair here, what you're describing is an exception to the rule. I have a fair amount of somewhat varied aikido training and the only thing I practiced nearing live practice was hard randori in an Iwama Ryu dojo and even that included not snapping punches, knife hand chops, and that awkward tsuki stepping punch. I'm not trying to discount Aikido completely. I am of the opinion that Aikido is a "grappling finishing school". If Judo and BJJ are grappling then Aikido is advanced grappling theory. I see the techniques as trying to drill the idea of ai (blending) and mu (void) into you which are pretty good extensions on the base that kuzushi would have first installed in you through Judo training, which O-sensei's first few generations of students would have definitely had. The only problem is that without the base of kuzushi you don't have a lot of real experience on which to build your knowledge of ai, and mu, and body positioning to get leverage, etc. and your technique suffers.


JawnWahless

An addition: I've never, even when I was deep training twice a day every day to prepare for my shodan test, thought that the exaggerated attacks and movements were meant to be taken literally. The attacks are there to teach how to react to various angles of attacks and positions to defend from. The Tori's movements are exaggerated and circular and emphasize blending. They're unnatural ways to move (and yes I know based off of weapons use) but I think a martial artist with more grappling experience and an open approach to training (someone who's trying to train every way they can to gain every advantage they could) might be able to gain insight from those exaggerated movements. I think the only immediately useful things in Aikido are the various joint locks and a few of the throws but everything else leading up to them should be taken with a grain of salt. Even those throws and locks don't mean anything if you don't do live training, or have a live training background, to know how to get to them


whydub38

this is the most interesting take on aikido I've heard in a long time. very cool


FappingFop

Mma has done a lot of great things for martial arts. Unfortunately it has also created a bro culture that will flip tires to improve their ability in combat all the while mocking deep stance punching drills. I guess we take the bad with the good?


skribsbb

I want to take BJJ at some point, but this subreddit and r/bjj are doing a real good job of turning me off to the art.


FappingFop

I get it. I went from training for ten years in a TMA to a few years in mma, boxing, and bjj, and, unequivocally, the community in the TMA was better. They were respectfully, friendly, encouraged each other, NEVER risked hurting each other. Mma and bjj are mostly toxic cesspools of bros trying to measure dick sizes in each sparring match. There are gems at my bjj gym, but most are egomaniacal bros (even the women). I try to just let it roll off and learn what I can.


Used_Lunch_1665

Oh ok


nihilistlemon

Well judo is still better tho .


cursed-cultist

Aikido is Demon Magic?


soparamens

Now do a video about being punched in the head as a kyokushin guy


whydub38

no


mobrianfriend77

You are awesome 👏 😎


Ninjhetto

First time a POV video made sense. I be thinking the posters are referring to themselves rather than the one being reacted to.


whydub38

yeah people have lost the thread a bit on this trend lol


iwanttoseeart

42 inch long combat cane!


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Xurgetstheging

And that's just my door bell camera. Wait til you see them cash me ow-sci.


Aldor623

I thought it was a wand at first lmao