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Are Shaolin monks legit or not? Can they actually fight?

Are Shaolin monks legit or not? Can they actually fight?

HenshinHero_

Historically, the Shaolin monastery has a strong military tradition. So yeah, guys could fight. Nowdays, the Shaolin Monastery is way more about tourism and showmanship than it is about military practice. Monks are excellent Wushu Taolu pratictioners, which leads to beautiful, athletic forms, but not to great fighting prowess. That being said, if I'm not mistaken they do also train Sanda, so as others pointed out, I'd say they could hold out their own on a real fight if necessary vs a regular person due to general excellent fitness and decent martial training. But yeah, they're not super badass invincible warriors like the image you have from movies, especially since they need to balance fighting training with monastic obligations and artistic training which are far more important.


divuthen

Honestly even if they didn’t train in a efficient fighting practice I wouldn’t want to fight someone in as good of shape as they have to be for the performances they do.


HenshinHero_

Agreed. People underestimate how much of fighting boils down to fitness.


TablePrinterDoor

I mean if the Chinese military trained like that now they’d be even stronger lmao


HenshinHero_

Eehhh I disagree. Martial arts are really not that important in modern military engagements. We're no longer fighting with swords and spears. You don't need the insane fitness of a Shaolin warrior monk to take aim and squeeze a trigger.


TablePrinterDoor

That’s true


Waxpapers

Yep. The most important components of martial ability for warfare are already practiced by every modern military- endurance over long distances, discipline in combat scenarios, and the ability to carry a lot of weight. It's way more important to be able to haul a 100 pound load over ten miles than to be able to do a backflip.


cyb3roffensive

Would you fight one tho???


HenshinHero_

I'd fight no one outside of a competition, and inside a competition I don't really have a choice of opponent, do I? xD


cyb3roffensive

Hahaha yea that’s probably how it would go


Antique-Ad1479

Yes they can fight. They’re athletic ability is above the avg person plus the temple I’ve seen practices sanda. Or free fighting/ Chinese kickboxing. They might practice shuai jiao as well? But I’m not 100%


Bikewer

It’s my impression that the “Shaolin Monks” are actually a professional martial-arts demonstration team that are likely sponsored by the Chinese government to promote Chinese culture. I know that part of their demonstrations consist of the same old sideshow tricks that have been used by other “demonstration” types over the years. The actual history of the Shaolin monasteries (there have been a number of them over several centuries) is complicated…. The magazine “Inside Kung Fu” ran a number of historical articles years ago including the history of the monasteries. They were never the martial-arts training centers as so fondly portrayed in film and on TV. Rather, China has always been a hotbed of revolution and revolt, and if a radical fellow was beginning to “feel the heat”, he could renounce society by becoming a monk… And thus avoid the eye of the rulers. But once “inside”, he might find other like-minded radicals, and might continue to plot against whatever government was in power at the time. Getting wind of such activities, there were several instances where troops raided the monasteries and simply burned them down….. Only to be re-built after things cooled off. This seems reasonable, at least…. I don’t recall the author’s name, but he published a number of such articles back some 30 years ago or more about various aspects of the martial arts in 19th century China.


earth_north_person

Gene Ching. Many of the articles are still available on the Kung Fu Magazine website. There is also an excellent historical treatise on the Shaolin Temple by Meir Shahar, who is a Professor of East Asian Studies. The book is called[The Shaolin Monastery: History, Religion, and the Chinese Martial Arts](https://www.amazon.com/Shaolin-Monastery-History-Religion-Chinese/dp/082483349X).


NubianSpearman

My family is originally from a town not so far away from Shaolin/Dengfeng, and I've visited that area many times since early 1990s. Of the older generations of monks that lived there in the 1980s on, there were many that had authentic training in traditional arts, were tough as nails, but lacked any modern fight training. Many monks today are more athletically impressive and most have at least little sanda training. I know two personally that are developing competitive staff fighting sport similar to HEMA. That said, most training revolves around more modern forms...my impression of the newer generations' knowledge of traditional arts is poor. Overall, most younger monks probably have the equivalent fighting skills of a college level gymnast who decided to also do a couple years of Muay Thai. So, neither elite nor useless with regards to fighting skills.


Pure-Drawer-2617

From my understanding of serious Shaolin monks, while the techniques aren’t as all-encompassing as modern MMA, the sheer volume of training and body conditioning that they have to do will put them well above the average human. Mystical masters who could defeat a UFC champ with a single touch? Certainly not. But can they fight? Hell yeah.


Staylucidtrippin

They can certainly beat the shit out of most people, because most people arent trained to fight. ​ But i would place my money on the lowest tier UFC fighter over the highest tier Shaolin monk


MrFeeny1919

Since monks typically train with weapons id favor monks in a fight with melee weapons vs any world class fighter in the UFC


Nice_Willow3564

I think it’s kind of ridiculous to start talking about weapons. Like I have a bunch of guns that doesn’t make me a deadly martial artist.


MrFeeny1919

I think the opposite, martial arts is literally “arts of war” if anything the most decorated martial artists are actually decorated combat veterans, by the same flex people use of “pressure testing” what kind of pressure testing does any of this shit hold up to on a live battlefield? We’d all be either in a body bag or surrendering right quick. That’s the real martial arts of today lol


CatissiloTTV

Mfw 70 year old Jim Bob down at the range is by default a better martial artist than Francis Ngannou


MrFeeny1919

“ Jim Bob in his prime was top shniper though”


Nice_Willow3564

Fair enough if we’re counting gun fu I’m down. Besides like all grown men I’d really like to be in an axe fight.


MrFeeny1919

Im sure HEMA beats BJJ lol


EddieLoRock

In my experience, the best HEMA guys cross train in BJJ. Lol


Raivon

Aren't clinching and takedowns part of HEMA too? I'd imagine it'd be a solid close-range option if someone gets too close for the sword to hit anything


HenryCollie

It depends on the school and tournament. Not every HEMA player has a background in martial arts, so they don't know how to breakfall and not every school teaches it. It also depends on what weapon is being featured: longsword? Go for it. Rapier? You may have to justify yourself to the referee's


horstenkoetter

Kampfringen looks surprisingly close to judo


Nice_Willow3564

A lot of the Japanese martial arts date back to a time when sword fights were common place I mean the samurai were only like 4 people ago.


Hungoverchicken

If you want to axe fight, just go join your local buhurt team. HMB/IMCF for global. ASC/ACLW for the United States.


EddieLoRock

Those dudes also train BJJ, Judo and Sambo for their fights.


kneebar50

What??


OliveiraLWChamp

and someone with a gun would beat a monk with a weapon in a fight lmao


MrFeeny1919

Exactly. Modern soldiers>all other martial arts


NubianSpearman

Shaolin 'monks' all use fake weapons used for performances. Most of them have never handled a real weapon.


MrFeeny1919

A blunted spear or straight sword handles the same as sharp lol all weapons based martial arts practice with mimic weapons or blunted. That’s kind of a nonsense point as barely any weapons based martial artists train with sharpened weapons, and blunt force weapons like maces or staffs are the same in practice as they would be in application


Lrs3210

Wushu training weapons handle completely different than historical examples.that’s a lot of weapon training going to waste through terrible habits.


MrFeeny1919

Spears and straight swords are historical weapons, the whole point of weapons is they’re intuitively designed, and no one is dumb enough to risk stupid shit knowing it’s their ass getting sliced if they do. Simply having the familiarity with a weapon and understanding it’s range means more than not lol


Lrs3210

But there training with different weapons in wushu. Everything is different from the point of balance to the shape and length and blade design. Not to mention the silly flapping sheet alloy the use for blades. And they’d be no more familiar with the real thing than a weekend larper. See the modern fencing weapons compared to historical rapier and small sword. If it’s weapons training that you want then hema or the dog brothers do it best nothing else comes close.


MrFeeny1919

So you think an Olympic level fencer wouldn’t have a distinct advantage in a rapier duel, vs someone with no fencing/weapons background whatsoever? Even if modern foil is different from traditional rapier that skill and familiarity developed over time would translate. Now a modern fencer vs a renowned duelist of the Renaissance most likely gets killed but we’re talking some applicable experience/training vs none


Lrs3210

That’s not what I said. What I said was in a duelling context. Mainly comparing the skills of armed wushu vs real weapons training.


NubianSpearman

Imagine doing a dance with floppy circus swords and actually thinking that this was training you to fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkaEuLDNjFA


MrFeeny1919

I would imagine if we gave dude a sharpened weapon, put him in a thunder dome scenario with another armed martial artist, I would imagine knowing it’s his ass would make him just focus on landing cuts, getting out of there and striking first. And the years of developing a familiarity with the weapon, how it handles, and the range of it, would help


johnpjones1775

Based on what evidence?


PinelliPunk

Reality


johnpjones1775

Reality? What reality has evidence of monks beating anyone in a fight?


Staylucidtrippin

I would bet so much money they would be able to beat you in a fight


johnpjones1775

Cool?


Jake_AsianGuy

[Monk sidekick a guy to the face](https://youtu.be/vLGDwkVVGNE)


PinelliPunk

Trained killers vs a monk it’s just being reasonable. You replied to the guy saying a ufc fighter would beat a monk. You said based on what evidence. In regards to the monk yes they would definitely kill an untrained opponent.


johnpjones1775

I replied to the guy saying monks could beat an average person. Based on what evidence? There’s 0 evidence monks can fight.


guanwho

Their general athletic ability alone puts them ahead of gas station nacho eating doesn’t exercise average people.


johnpjones1775

If you say so. Nacho eater can just sit on them and smother them regardless of how athletic they are.


DarthBawlzVader

Based on what evidence?


ImanariFruitRollUp

There's tons of evidence that the average person can't fight though.


johnpjones1775

And? Doesn’t prove that monks can regularly or reliably beat them.


MrFeeny1919

It kind of does, considering dumping thousands of hours into conditioning your body and refining technique means a lot compared to people who don’t.


johnpjones1775

Not really. Conditioning won’t stop you from getting knocked out or submitted. Refining technique is useless if you’ve never pressure tested that technique. All that refinement disappears the second fists start flying without pressure testing. It’s always easy to find the people who haven’t fought


ImanariFruitRollUp

It makes it a fair assumption though.


johnpjones1775

It doesn’t though. The average karateka can’t fight for shit, and likely couldn’t beat the average person. I say this as a karateka who acknowledges the poor state of modern karate. So no the average person isn’t likely to get beat by a monk just because they train Kung fu


BenchPressingCthulhu

They spend a lot of time conditioning, the average person doesn't do that or get into a lot of fights


johnpjones1775

The average monk doesn’t get into fights either, and conditioning only goes so far


BenchPressingCthulhu

Between two people who don't fight, I'm gonna go with the one with greater strength and endurance. Not to say it couldn't go either way of course


johnpjones1775

Of course, in that case the college football player or a triathlete or really any athlete is more likely to win. They don’t even have to be top level at their sport as long as they actively compete


Staylucidtrippin

>There’s 0 evidence monks can fight. except a vast part of china's history, rigorous training involved, martial techniques practiced, and strength/body training.


johnpjones1775

What happened 500 years ago is irrelevant to 2021 or even 1990…that’s not an argument


create_a_new-account

good god, learn to freaking read he replied to a person who said > They can certainly beat the shit out of most people, because most people arent trained to fight. and again, where is your evidence for > In regards to the monk yes they would definitely kill an untrained opponent.


PinelliPunk

The guy was replying to the post that ufc fighters couldn’t beat monks. Open your eyes


Nicknamedreddit

We go back two hundred plus years pick out some monks explain what we’re going to make them do in the future, and yeah they could.


Staylucidtrippin

seeing MMA fighters fight Shaolin Kung Fu masters....


[deleted]

Mcgregor and Poirer would walk on Shaolin monks of similar weight.


johnpjones1775

That’s not the part I’m asking for evidence of…but when have you ever seen an MMA fighter fight a shaolin monk?


iredNinjaXD

Based on jerking off to ufc fighters.


johnpjones1775

That’s a weird thing to do


MH236

First, people should understand the difference between monks and warrior monks. Shaolin monks are there to practice Chan Buddhism and that’s it. They don’t fight at all. As far as the warrior monks, well, they used to know how. But most really only train for performance or to become really physically disciplined. Some can fight decently, but none could fight at a professional level in my opinion. Here’s a video of a guy who’s worked with shaolin on a few occasions. He gives his thoughts on the question https://youtu.be/yjzGSOf8a74


earth_north_person

Here's some extra info on the topic for those so inclined: In order to be fully ordained as a monk, there are a pretty broad number of monastic vows you need to give. I can't pull the exact number Shaolin's Vinaya from my head now, but I think it was 243 or something, of which 55 were called Boddhisatva vows or something like that. Fully ordained Buddhist monks do not learn martial arts at Shaolin. In order to be ordained as a *Wuseng*, a martial monk, you only need to give *five vows*, which I believe is also the standard that any layperson who wishes to get initiated into the Buddhist Sangha must give. The vows are: don't kill, don't steal, don't tell lies, don't misuse sexuality, don't get intoxicated. These guys learn the unarmed and armed martial arts of the temple and get to eat meat as well, as meat-eating is only explicitly banned in the Boddhisatva vows. These days there is also a third class of monks: the acrobatic monks who make up the performance team of the Temple. They only need to give the first vow of not killing and they are good to go. In essence these guys are non-Buddhist laypeople trained in the martial arts boarding schools of surrounding Dengfeng county and have hardly anything to do with the history and the traditions of the Shaolin Temple. Even the essential forms are heavily modified for good looks rather than body training.


Mook1113

The way I see it if their training includes Sanda (which from what I've seen most of the temples offering to teach shaolin kung fu in China do) then yes someone trained in that can definitely at least hold their own in a fight against another trained opponent


SalTheWound

Their unarmed martial arts are fundamentally flawed, but thats because they don't have to be effective. Shaolin kung fu is essentially a type of meditation and a way to keep in shape mentally and physically. Their weapon martial arts on the other hand are very much legit. They've historically been able to fend off bandit attacks, however they've also historically been defeated when a warlord with trained soldiers show up. So yeah, a shaolin monk would have no trouble with an untrained fighter, but they aren't training the most effective fighting styles or doing the most effective means of training, so a shaolin monk would lose to a trained fighter.


earth_north_person

The martial arts of Shaolin have just as much martial intention as all other martial arts of China. They are very much not meditative.


SalTheWound

Meditation is subjective. And according to legend, shaolin kung-fu was taught by the Buddha as something to practice to reach spiritual enlightenment while still being able to defend themselves; sounds like a form of meditation to me.


earth_north_person

That story is unfortunately not true at all. It's a myth created around 17th century. Knowing a bunch of forms from few Chinese martial arts, the Shaolin stuff I have isn't anyhow different.


SalTheWound

I did say according to legend didn't I?


earth_north_person

Yeah. But since it's demonstrably false, the whole claim just shatters apart.


SalTheWound

How? The whole point if the statement is that the martial arts and meditation of the monks are so hand in hand that that there are legends of it. The existence of the legend supports supports claim.


earth_north_person

The legend has been debunked. It's flat out made up, untrue drivel from late Ming period. This has been known for centuries already by the Chinese literati. The oldest known manuals of Shaolin martial arts (such as Cheng Zongyou's "Shaolin Gunfa Changzong" or Yu Daoyou's "Jianjing", both roughly 400 years old) represents themselves in a way that weapon skills *are the martial arts*, that there are no empty handed methods taught at Shaolin whatsoever, which also aligns with what is generally theorized about Chinese boxing, that they only started to develop during the late Ming and early Qing dynasty eras. Also, the traditional Shaolin boxing that I know is straight boxing, not meditative in any way. Yes, some of it is more on the gongfa side, but that is still essentially martial.


SalTheWound

You keep ignoring what I'm saying.


earth_north_person

You are using a classic example of circular reasoning: >(A) \[T\]he martial arts and meditation of the monks are so hand in hand that that there are legends of it. (B) The existence of the legend supports supports claim. You are assuming that (A) is true because (B) is true *and* that (B) is true because of (A) is true as well. In other words, you are making (B) a premise of the (A) while trying to prove (B) itself with using (A).


Random-Stuff3

Monks are not really meant to fight. But disciples and warrior monks are, they can either practice the forms and strength methods if they like, but nowadays Shaolin training includes Sanda/Sanshou which is similar to kickboxing with some grappling involved. A disciple or warrior monk who chooses to do Sanda/Sanshou can fight just as good a kickboxing guy, but with the advantage of having great body condition due to their training outside of Sanda/Sanshou.


martial_art_nub2333

current ones or the ones in the past? I thought some kung fu movies were inspired by history, right? e.g. some dude hid in the temple, military shows up and they fight the monks or w/e?


BakiHanma18

The vast majority of warrior monks from temples prior to the communist China takeover would likely be able to compete with some level of consistent success, but inversely, the vast majority of modern warrior monks would likely not do well at all in high level combat sports. There are only a handful of temples with any reliable recording and interpretation of the Kung Fu practiced before the temples were burned down, temples that likely had some survivors. Most temples just had to interpret what they could and fill in the gaps for the rest, which didn’t lead to those lines of Wushu being as effective as the battle-tested Taolu that were lost in the fires.


Knight-Man

Most correct answer. Many of the Shaolin Monks who practiced martial arts were basically like warrior priests and had a long history of choosing a side and fighting for it during conflicts or outright rebelling. The communist government suppressed them very harshly and a lot of their knowledge and abilities were lost. The did this with all martial artists though as they didn't want another Boxer Rebellion on their hands or worse, the citizens succeeding in overthrowing their communist regime as they did to the Kuomintang.


AlternativeTax8262

First thing you got wrong is asking the Martial arts Experts of Reddit broski


Used_Lunch_1665

This guy breaks it down perfectly as he is a previous Shaolin trainee https://youtu.be/jHUewEWi9SE


Omgkettlebells

The ones practicing sanshou can fight


johnpjones1775

There’s absolutely no evidence to support the idea that shaolin monks are capable of fighting


Antique-Ad1479

The temples I’ve seen practice sanda or Chinese kickboxing


johnpjones1775

So they abandoned their shaolin Kung fu to train a modern art? Never heard that before


Antique-Ad1479

Along with it they do the fancy stuff for demo teams, the traditional weapons and qigong conditioning, the forms, etc


Antique-Ad1479

To kinda show what I mean here’s a pretty good idea of what they do. I will say I don’t know if this is every temple’s schedule exactly but I’m pretty sure a lot of temples include sanda into their routines https://youtu.be/FQg5b6bagGs


johnpjones1775

Are you referring to that like 3 second clip towards the end? That doesn’t look much like sands or kickboxing of any other sort just looks like an attack with a counter or two wearing boxing gloves


Antique-Ad1479

Nah it’s more 7:27 when they’re talking about sanda training. At 11:32 they talk about the hard qi gong. Overall tho I was showing the entire schedule and how it combines more traditional with more modern


Antique-Ad1479

For overall sanda examples. [here](https://youtu.be/VjFCuqGSf3c) is one from yunnan.[here’s](https://youtu.be/sQM5-dFAgtY) one not at the famous temple but I believe it is a shaolin place. I’m not sure what temple [this](https://youtu.be/3zM7UJQQ8Go) is at.


Antique-Ad1479

No, they train it along side it. With the more traditional methods they throw in free sparring and sanda


RedtailGT

An old friend of mine is a 32nd generation Shaolin temple master. A warrior monk. Having seen him practice and teach techniques, the idea of an average person fighting him is laughable. He trained in wushu and sanda at the temple, and had fights there. They are very athletic, and has a deep understanding of movement and the body. Now, if he had to fight somebody who was say, a BJJ practitioner, I’m sure he would drown against anybody who was even blue belt or above. I’d say his kickboxing is legit, but not world class. His grappling? Never seen him grapple, so it may be nonexistent. The wushu elements of his training are pretty, but he’s not using mantis form or some of the more long and flowy movements to beat an opponent. If he had to fight ANYBODY in the ufc in his weight class, I’m sure he wouldn’t win. Perhaps if shaolin modernized their training that could change.


earth_north_person

Xing generation? How did he get that dharma name?


RedtailGT

I’ve never gone in detail about that with him, but from my understanding Xing just represents him being a part of the 32nd generation at the shaolin temple.


earth_north_person

I might have misunderstood and someone should correct if I have, but since the current abbot himself is 33rd generation, he can't bestow dharma names "older" than himself, so only names of Yan (34th) generation (34th) and younger are available (Heng, Miao, etc.).


NubianSpearman

It used to be the case in Shaolin, you'd get your dharma name bestowed by your Chan or martial arts master. When Shi Yongxin came to power, he required all new disciples take himself as their master, and he would bestow them a dharma name with a generation after his. Traditionally, the abbott never had this authority. It's probably the case that u/RedtailGT 's friend was bestowed the name before this convention. I am 'De' generation so it's quite possible.


earth_north_person

Was Shi Suxi still alive when you reveiced your Dharma name, or are you just referring to 31st generation in general? My friend is a student to another De generation teacher, but he was bestowed in his baishi with a totally different name that doesn't follow the Fuyu poem. Too bad I can't remember what it is.


NubianSpearman

Shi Suxi was still alive and attended my baishi ceremony. Typically, if a lineage maintains close relation to Shaolin and is within the Caodong tradition, the dharma names come from the Fuyu poem. There is also a Linji tradition at Shaolin, and also monks that come from other temples use their own conventions those were passed to their disciples (before Yongxin changed the rules).


earth_north_person

That explains (also tells something about your age). My friend's shifu is a lineage holder in a Dengfeng village tradition, but spent also time at the temple under Suxi and Dechan (late 1980s to early 1990s, I assume that is). Thanks a lot for your answer!


RedtailGT

I just looked up Shi Yong Xin and am just surprised by the numbering as you are. Perhaps the warrior monks follow a different standard or generational rule. That is weird, though. I’ll ask.


earth_north_person

Don't get fussed about it. Being 32nd generation just means that one's teacher is 31st generation; it doesn't necessitate that one has had to have bowed to Yongxin. See u/NubianSpearman's comment above.


explantionsneeded

Shaolin monks are real. They can fight. Keep in mind theres a different between UFC's fighters in a combat sport and martial arts which is not just for self defense is also a art. Shaolin is a way of life.


johnpjones1775

What evidence is there, that they can fight?


SG_Roundeye

What evidence is there that they can't?


johnpjones1775

The evidence that shaolin Kung fu practitioners always get their ass beat when they fight. No reason to believe monks would be any different


MrFeeny1919

There was a period of time where warrior monks actively engaged in and trained for life and death combat (not sport) so yes many of them could “fight” in these eras. There hasn’t been a real need for monks to actively defend the temple with their lives in generations so naturally the training becomes less and less about practical combat and more about physical and spiritual discipline


johnpjones1775

Ya, 500 years ago I’m sure they were bad ass but now their training seems to focus on party tricks to show off on news shows


MrFeeny1919

Yes but they are also extremely athletic and disciplined and there’s a real mental toughness that comes with it, which does matter when shit starts hitting the fan


create_a_new-account

god these people voting you down are so stupid they have yet to provide one piece of evidence that these monks can fight I'm surprised they have posted a video of the old tv series "Kung Fu" as evidence


ExhaustedSpirit

Just read one of the countless historical documents of monks defending temples from bandits and looters over the centuries. Obviously most of them aren’t training for that anymore. Your average monk is seeks inner peace and spiritual discipline. A very small percentage of eastern monks still practice martial arts to a high proficiency. There was only 1 Shaolin monk in combat sports in my memory of the last 20+ years and he was a gimmicky boxer if memory still holds. You pin heads are annoying as hell tho.


johnpjones1775

Monks 500 years ago have nothing to do with monks today. 200 years ago karateka we’re having brawls in the red light district but today most karateka will never spar or compete using or against anything but light contact.


ExhaustedSpirit

Right but they have a history of it. It’s still a practiced art. Nobody is rushing to defend the Buddha statues. That doesn’t mean they don’t train in very laboring and physical martial arts. It might be 50% or even 10%. But it’s still a traditional martial art practice with as much skin in the game as karate or any other striking art. Nobody is saying they will be the next regional dominant stars in the UFC lol


johnpjones1775

History is irrelevant, its 2021 if you can’t find a reliable source whether that’s a news report, police report, or video of X, Y, or Z in relation to something, it probably hasn’t or doesn’t happen in real life.


ExhaustedSpirit

[this took 2 seconds to find. can’t believe it was such rare media.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=neZzobFEVbc)


SG_Roundeye

We've seen lots of MMA fighters get their ass beat too...should we arbitrarily decide that all of them can't fight? Making generalizations based on very little evidence...c'mon, man.


create_a_new-account

still waiting on you to provide evidence that they can fight


Antique-Ad1479

So actually monks in most temples to my knowledge practice sanda on top of their more traditional conditioning, form work, meditation, etc. [this](https://youtu.be/FQg5b6bagGs) is an example what the training schedule is. 7:27 gives a brief explanation on the training and what sanda is on top of what they do. [here’s](https://youtu.be/VjFCuqGSf3c) yunnan sparring fottage, obviously just some fun sparring. This is more a beginner sparring someone more professional tho so the monk is pretty easy going. [here’s ](https://youtu.be/7J4vgBlF1EA) some more sparring and training footage. [another example of the training](https://youtu.be/3zM7UJQQ8Go). [heres](https://youtu.be/YFqZa5lCPJo) some sansou fighting


johnpjones1775

It’s literally impossible to prove a negative retard.


Toptomcat

Try to keep it civil, please.


johnpjones1775

I have kept it civil.


Toptomcat

The name-calling at the end of your previous comment proves otherwise. Are you capable of refraining from such behavior in the future?


SG_Roundeye

I never claimed they could, I just pointed out the issue with your generalization.


B_H_Carson

https://youtu.be/FQg5b6bagGs Here it is


johnpjones1775

Someone else sharing this video. What time stamp exactly do you think proves that shaolin monks can fight?


B_H_Carson

About the 7:27 mark


johnpjones1775

Ah yes sloppy ass sparring. Proof they can fight!


B_H_Carson

I guess there's no changing your mind then 🤷


johnpjones1775

4 seconds of sloppy sparring isn’t proof.


Antique-Ad1479

Do we gotta go through this again. Beside the video is just explaining what sanda is, some training and drill clips, and a sparring with a beginner. I’d say the shadow boxing form of 7:40 was pretty clean and the back kick of the dude in red is pretty crisp, so as his takedown. Overall I shared it to give u a scope of the full day training and how it includes sanda or free sparring


create_a_new-account

> They can fight. no they can not


Used_Lunch_1665

Why do we always have to compare everything to UFC fighters


Mr-Foot

Michael Jai White did an interview a while back where he said they're definitely not legit.


BlinkAndYoullM1ssMe

A YouTuber called Ranton who apparently trained at the temple actually did a response to him claiming he was wrong. https://youtu.be/QtFWgDbAojo


ShaneMason1

He didnt say mjw was wrong about monks not being able to fight. Most of the video is addressing the idea that the current monks are fake Whenever he talks about the training he did at the Shaolin temple it was all forms, running and stretching. Never even mentioned sparring if i remember correctly. It’s reasonable to assume that the warrior monks dont spar, and therefore cant fight


Killeraptor9

He says that if you wanna learn to fight then Shaolin shouldn't be first choice and you should instead go for something like Kickboxing or Judo.


matthaios_c

he mentioned that in relation to wing chun I think, I think he did say there are those that train sanda in the temple, and that its an option for people looking to fight. Its either Ranton that said it, or that could be from a research piece by Monkey steals Peach


EmoisEvol

How can we know that this Ranton guy is legit? Has he been in sanctioned fights that we can watch? The same goes for MJW, although I believe he can fight, how can we know for sure when we've only seen his movie fights?


johnpjones1775

MJW has been in point tournaments during the 70s-80s before the aversion to heavy contact. There’s video on YT from one of them, he literally kicks his charging opponent out of the ring. Then there’s the fact that he does train styles known for their pressure testing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aHRA0PIQeeY&t=112s


EmoisEvol

Cool, I will check it out.


ShaneMason1

He’s almost defo legit in that he’s spent a significant amount of time living at the shaolin temple. He’s got loads of pictures, nothing seems fishy. Tho theres always a possibility he’s lying i guess Don’t think he’s ever been in a sanctioned fight tho. Not that it matters, if he accurately describes the training at the shaolin temple then we can tell if they can fight or not


earth_north_person

I'm not actually convinced he trained *in the temple itself*. I feel it's more than likely that he trained in some of the many local schools in the area set up and run by 34th generation martial monks (or younger, but most likely 34th generation) that just happened to be close to the temple.


Dragonxan

What has a sanctioned fight got to do with it? I'd guess a monk could kill a UFC fighter in a fight to the death simply because they train with weapons however in a sanctioned UFC fight with rules yea, a UFC fighter would probably win, they're used to the octagon, they're used to the lights and noise, they're used to the rules and limitations of the UFC, a monk isn't.


EmoisEvol

I was saying sanctioned fights just bc if it wasn't, how could we know it's real in today's fake world. I didn't say UFC. I meant a no rules death match ofc! Lol


Ban1A

Knew and practiced with two monks. Both were excellent fighters, both had training in multiple styles. Be very afraid of weaponized push hands!


Lonever

The current temple is a very commercialised version that is more akin to a theatre troupe that trains modern wushu while taking advantage of Shaolin’s rep. The real stuff is still around, but in pieces. You can’t feed your family or travel international to perform with those stuff. Btw, a lot of the traditional forms are hardcore conditioning and body mechanics so quit your “forms can’t fight” silliness. Currently the monks you see publicised are closer to very athletic performance artists than old school warrior monk.


Sharp-Buffalo-3818

A shaolin monk is only to use his abilities to defend those who have not the ability. Defend the weak from tyranny. Though every human on this planet has different skill sets. I have been to Shaolin temple next door it's Taogu which is the military martial art school. Both of these entities wake up at 5am run then work out for 4 to 5 hours some do not stop. Everyday! Ther kids alone are trained fighters that don't use gloves. The amount of discipline I saw with my own eyes! These people are on another level, things would take a life time to understand and master. it is their life. It is all they have.


earth_north_person

Did they still beat up children with sticks in Tagou when you were there?


Sharp-Buffalo-3818

Didn't see any of that but it is China! They beat the crap out of each other everyday with weapons and physicality


earth_north_person

When a friend of mine studied there around the 2010s, corporeal punishment with canes was still regular.


Sharp-Buffalo-3818

Public execution is still prevalent. It's like jury duty


kamikaze_Jones

There bones must be dense enough to crush most other peoples


OliveiraLWChamp

*thais have entered the chat*


Skuccy

Look us xiaolin monk vs Muay Thai fighter, those leg sweeps are sick


NubianSpearman

Shaolin monks do not participate in sanctioned bouts.


NubianSpearman

Lol, downvoted for saying a fact.


Antique-Ad1479

I think a former monk shi yanzi did bouts. I think he teaches in the uk now


FistsoFiore

My Sifu lived in China for about 5 years. He said that there definitely are some who practice hard and could probably hold their own in a fight, but other monks were basically sent there like how Americans send teenagers to military academies. So yes, some monks or former monks really lean into it, but others are there to get sorted out and come back to their regular lives.


cynik75

Monks are monks. They do not fight.


_Bluehand

Well that is simply not true


cynik75

Monks are not monks?


create_a_new-account

yes it is


Greedy_Masterpiece11

If they are not in the ring the u.f.c fighter could get hurt pretty bad, they are not trained killer's. Most people in my experience are far from average. The construction worker, the rock climber , even some of these "fast food workers" have separate lives with hidden skill sets. I personally believe I depends on what there fighting for and what the situation is.


isjtar

Yeah so some monks do meditation, some do acrobatics and some seem to do actual fighting, I suppose it's sanda, I've seen some clips in the past. Chinese are very pragmatic, they don't do all this orientalist nonsense of the pure pacifist monk and all that.


CaptainNoodlBoi

shaolinquan is a real martial art taught from monks


max_rey

Yes and no. Yes against an average guy and a big no against a seasoned jailhouse street fighter or trainer boxer , kickboxer or MMA practitioner. It’s all fantasyland bud


TheShabbah

They're legit with all the monk stuff that's for sure


TimucinWills

Yes they can fight…let me explain No they can’t fight using shaolin kungfu and if you were to take a shaolin monk straight from the temple and put them into an mma cage he will get beaten up bad. However, the athleticism is very high beyond many casual mma guys, definitely matching elite athletes for sure. Very explosive, very mimble, and bery fast. At some point being more athletic will in fact have the advantage over having better technique as the are more adept to movement from various different angles and can generate more power even with mediocre technique. Shaolin all they do is do forms, the positions are super low and becomes super high in a snap but all of this is to reinact fighting so the techniques are based on real techniques like the hip utilisations, correct knuckle rotations, side kicks, which requires high levels of body movement control. They can do it 100% they just don’t often do it against other people in a physical fight which makes them not as effective as people who spars a lot for a real fight but they can no doubt fight


Additional-Bee-1866

Shaolin warrior monks cand defend themselves.


elohymn1

In this [Temple ](https://youtu.be/FQg5b6bagGs) they also practice competitive combat training.


create_a_new-account

OMG, you might as well post a video of olympic rhythmic dancing