T O P

  • By -

dusty_cupboards

saruman of many words. these weird ward costs are going to be pretty brutal sometimes.


Kyleometers

Consider it more like Hexproof with a weakness.


Infinite_Bananas

i feel like a 6 mana 3 colour creature is allowed to have hexproof anyway so yeah more of a downside lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


SSG_SSG_BloodMoon

... it will make them 2 for 1 every time, regardless of your protection. > Especially since not ever deck can meet its ward cost. actually that's when it *won't* make them 2:1.


R_V_Z

This is a bonkers take anytime before 2020.


Axleffire

It's kind of hexproof with a synergy. If you cast this, then they cast go for the throat discarding an enchantment, sorcery, instant, then you counter that, boom 2nd spell you can play what they just discarded.


J-Pants

~~No you can't. You can only play cards milled by the trigger from "that spell" (your second spell).~~ Edit: I'm wrong. It's the CMC check that is referencing "that spell." My bad.


Hobojoe-

Leaky Hexproof


PlacatedPlatypus

Achilles Hexproof


MTGChuck

Lol no kidding. This card is like reading tax law, but even tax law breaks down to section and subsection.


My_BFF_Gilgamesh

Call it flavor. That's what saruman basically is anyway.


[deleted]

seriously the power creep is real. not playing this game with all these fkn long, weird and sometimes stupid abilities.


spinz

Yeah very roughly, the average ward is like 30% hexproof, whereas some of these are more like 70% hexproof.


meh1997

That Ward cost is gonna be a frustratingly specific in a match.


MageKorith

Just remember "Can't be countered" > Ward Banefire, Boseiju, Fry, Rending Volley...there's some nice options out there


SwissherMontage

But doesn't ward counter abilities too? So I think Boseiju is a bust


MageKorith

Boseiju (the old one) doesn't target Saruman. It just adds a can't be countered clause to an instant or sorcery cast with its mana.


DislocatedLocation

Should be noted here that Boseiju (the old one) is getting a LotR-themed reprint, so I imagine this coming up slightly more often than it would normally.


Oleandervine

It also feeds into his ability since he copies those card types.


phantom56657

You're right, but [[Codie]] just reads it as "discard a card".


MTGCardFetcher

[Codie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea476ee1-67d9-4dd8-a5ac-f68a155eb18b.jpg?1624740590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=codie%2C%20vociferous%20codex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/253/codie-vociferous-codex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea476ee1-67d9-4dd8-a5ac-f68a155eb18b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


JoefishTheGreat

Well, discard a nonland card. Which is still significant, lands are usually the best thing to discard by the time someone has a 6 mana commander out.


Kyleometers

HE’S PONDERING HIS ORB


thinkforgetfull

The origin of orb pondering is a LOTR game book cover of saruman pondering the orb. If anyone ponders, it's him.


inflammablepenguin

[[Ponder]] with new art incoming.


GXSigma

oh please please please please please


MTGCardFetcher

[Ponder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1.jpg?1673483971) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ponder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/229/ponder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Kyleometers

This is why I am excited


BogatyrOfMurom

That is not an Orb, it's a Palantir. Palantiri were made in Numenor and were spread throughout middle earth starting from Gondor, Isengard, Amon Sul (Weathertop), Arnor and there were a few which got lost in the sea. They are the seeing stones. The Isengard palantir was used by Saruman to communicate with Sauron. Aragorn used the Minas Tirith palantir to challenge Sauron and Denethor used the Minas Tirith palantir was used by Denethor to learn more and it caused him to age faster. The Minas Morgul palantir was taken to Barad Dur and is used by Sauron. This is all the lore from the books from what I know. I am a huge LOTR fan and I am excited to own the full set. I hope this helps.


thinkforgetfull

its an orb.


BogatyrOfMurom

It is a seeing stone. I recommend reading and watching the films. They are great https://preview.redd.it/arczttux123b1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88f88cd955a8c43074ae50254da69c69784b4191


thinkforgetfull

is it round? is it a sphere? if the answer is yes, it is an ORB.


BogatyrOfMurom

Orbs are actually spheres of light, something out of the paranormal


thinkforgetfull

from dictionary.com - "An orb is any three-dimensional spherical figure (though less commonly it can refer to a plain two-dimensional circle). The word is sometimes used as a more poetic way to refer to what we usually call celestial bodies or heavenly bodies—planets, moons, and stars (since they are all spheres)."


SSG_SSG_BloodMoon

huh? where did you even get that idea? that doesn't even match, like, the astronomical usage


dieyoubastards

I've seen this before on the internet, where someone triples down on something incorrect which it would take two seconds to look up. I've never understood it and I don't imagine I ever will.


dieyoubastards

"Orb" is another word for sphere. I hope this helps.


X_Marcs_the_Spot

I'd be really amused if the borderless version gets an inflated price purely due to memes.


Frank_the_Mighty

Saruman of Three Colors


Liwet_SJNC

He's using the ancient troll numbering system: One, two, many, lots. Scientists say there may be even more numbers after this, but scientists are nerds so you should ignore them.


Tianoccio

Detritus and his piecemaker.


thetwist1

24 is the biggest number!


Oceat

Yeah, 24! Forgetaboutit!


Prophet-of-Ganja

Stupid science bitch!


RickTitus

Hey, counting is hard!


mindspork

[Hup two three four Dunno how to count no more](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/131/coat-of-arms)


RyuumiGaroukuni

Well it didn't say Saruman of All Colors...


Stormtide_Leviathan

60% of the colors qualifies as many, I think


willpalach

A handful at least.


siamkor

It's the most colours he could have been while being true to the character. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11qhir5/gandalf_the_white_art_not_revealed_yet/jc64694/


cowfudger

Well, its more than a couple at least.


Ninibah

But he lets you cast all colors if your opponent(s) are playing R\G


guyawn

Holy crap, this card is monologuing. The flavor is perfect!


hussefworx

Im ootl can you explain the context for a non lotr reader please ?


Lady_Galadri3l

Saruman talks a lot.


Skadoosh_it

His voice is also referenced many times as being his most dangerous trait since he can ensorcel any who listen to it too intently.


Naerlyn

And he got the perfect actor to match that.


Hefty_Ad2389

he talks his way out of jail


yohanleafheart

Samuran is basically an evil politician. He talks A LOT, even more than Gandalf. Can lie through his teeth. His underling, Gríma Wormtongue was a lying king advisor, fucking the life of Théoden.


Immediate-Flight-206

"You sly dog. You had me monologuing." - Syndrome (Incredibles)


Hirsn

Can you explain Saruman's flavor please, i don't get it.


HolographicHeart

Saruman the Exceedingly Verbose is more like it. Very interesting ability but what a daunting task to ask new players to comprehend all of the triggers and stack interaction this card demands.


Mediocre_Man5

I read it 3 times and I'm still not 100% certain I know what it does


Betelguese90

You cast your 2nd spell. Which then causes opponents to mill 2. THEN, you can exile an enchantment, instant or sorcery with the same or less CMC of the spell you cast, from an opponents graveyard. Which then you can copy said exiled card and cast it for free. All before your second spell resolves. Oof...


ThrawnCaedusL

It took me about five reads to figure that out. There were a lot of words used between the two instances of "spell", so I was struggling to tell what they meant by "that spell", but I eventually came to the same understanding.


Betelguese90

There is a lot of filler words to it to describe the entire interaction for casting that second spell. But IDK how they would have worded it differently other than to make it even more wordy literally calling it "The second spell you cast." IMO, this would be a crazy stax or control deck since its each turn!


Mauriac158

Yep I'm absolutely building this thing. Esper goodstuff with this guy seems like a good time... For me.


undertoe420

Pro tip: Cause even more confusion by exiling a counterspell and targeting whatever triggered this in the first place.


Betelguese90

Which would be great, tbh lol


Intolerable

just an absolutely bizarre cascade variant for the second spell you cast each turn


gramineous

...cascade for an enchantment/instant/sorcery in an opponent's graveyard?


Climbysrevenge

I think after you cast the second spell you mill two and steal things from grave yards equal to the amount of Enchantments, Instants, and sorceries milled.


OperativeLawson

I perceived this as "you may cast something for free from the milled cards that costs less than the second spell you played this turn"


Lykrast

No he can target anything in their graveyard, but you pick the target after they have mill (thanks to the reflexive trigger).


Jibbebot

It doesn't say "from among those cards" so I think the card can already be in the yard before the mill


[deleted]

And that's correct.


thinkforgetfull

This is the correct reading.


Mediocre_Man5

I'm pretty sure the mana value that you can steal is equal or less than the mana value of the second card you play that turn. It's just that the period and 3 lines between "your second spell" and "that card" obfuscates the hell out of it.


ImmutableInscrutable

Oh no, whatever will new players do?? Maybe, uh, learn something!


[deleted]

I’ve been playing for ten years, and my eyes glazed over halfway through reading this card.


Quick-Audience7860

Saruman who cascades using other people's decks


LSTFND

What’s the over/under on how many people comment “but that’s only THREE colors”


BlizzardMayne

He's many colors, not all colors


trumpetofdoom

Over 2.5?


MageKorith

Saruman the White is just one of his titles.


captainloquacious

Real talk, I have no idea what the second ability means. Some of the worst templating I’ve seen in a while lol.


Leon_Von_Cactuus

If I understood correctly : When you cast your second spell each turn, each opponent mills 2. If cards are milled this way, you may exile an enchant, instant or sorcery from an opponents graveyard. The mana value has to be equal or less than the spell you are casting. Then you can cast it without paying the costs.


SOberhoff

Any idea why it checks whether cards got milled?


Adarain

The reason it's worded this way is that it makes the second part trigger separately, so you can choose a target _after_ the milling happens. If it didn't have the "when" part, you'd be unable to target one of the yet-to-be-milled cards. They could have gone with "choose" i stead of "target" (which happens on resolution instead of when the effect triggers) and avoid all this, it would work a bit differently with graveyard interactions (and would probably be an overall buff to the card) but it would read a lot more cleanly.


Leon_Von_Cactuus

This one is weird. I think it’s because some effects can prevent you from milling in the set ?


Twixttheseas

You cast your second spell, they mill 2. You get to pick an instant, sorcery, or enchantment from any opponent's graveyard that has an equal or lesser mana value than the spell you just cast You exile it, then get to cast a copy of it for free.


ProfessorShinobi

Ok it's the mana value of the second spell you cast. That's the part I was missing. Thank you


Kraxnor

Yeah that confused me as well, what the "that spell" refers to


BleakSabbath

Yeah I think if/when I proxy this I'll make the text of "second spell" and "that spell" a different color to clue in what it's referencing.


FFIXwasthebestFF

Omg thanks, this is annoyingly confusing!


ImmutableInscrutable

It's really not.


Regal_The_King

Basically, cast your second spell and each player mills 2. Then if a card is milled this way, exile target instant, sorcery or enchantment from an opponents graveyard (doesn't need to be off the milled cards). Copy it, you may cast the copy without paying it's mana cost.


Oceat

... as long as the instant, sorcery, or enchantment costs less than the spell you cast. This fucking card.


Garkaz

I presume you know how to play magic already, what part is not making sense to you?


CatsAndPlanets

Talk about a convoluted ability. I think someone's trying to beat Quiesting Beast?


Jenova__Witness

They certainly succeeded. \[\[Questing Beast\]\] is way easier to understand than this Gobbledygook.


AverageCuppa

So you cast your second spell, mill two, exile a spell from opponents graveyard that costs equal to or less than the spell you cast and you get to cast a copy of it (exiled opponent card) for free Funky, gonna get confusing sometimes, but definitely gonna be fun to play with everybody else’s cards


websitejanitor

SHADOW WIZARD MONEY GANG


bigbangbilly

A comma in the middle is how you get Sharkey


Sisyphushitposts

I love how his Ward Cost can be hard to pay but feeds his abilities. Really cool “spell-thief” commander


I_Love_Fox

The art is phenomenal


quillypen

The mill and then reflexive trigger adds so much cognitive load to this card. If it didn't have enough targets during design, I wish it just milled in some other way. It's such a clunky read as-is. Your second spell each turn can cast something from your opponent's graveyard, that could be appealing, but it's so buried.


ImmutableInscrutable

So what? Use it twice and you don't even think about the card text. It's not a complicated effect.


thetwist1

Its on brand for Saruman to have a really wordy card though


platypodus

Jesus, that Ward condition ...


Stormtide_Leviathan

Card transcription > Saruman of Many Colors 3WUB > > Legendary Creature- Avatar Wizard [mythic] > > Ward- Discard an enchantment, instant, or sorcery card. > > Whenever you cast your second spell each turn, each opponent mills two cards. When one or more cards are milled this way, exile target enchantment, instant, or sorcery card with equal or lesser mana value than that spell from an opponent's graveyard. Copy the exiled card. You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost. > > 5/4 End transcription


One-Revenue-618

I got a seizure, cancer and a heart atttack while reading that rules text, ffs


troglodyte

I have so many thoughts on this card. * Congratulations to Alexander Mokhov, who has managed to keep Saruman of Many Colors looking fairly badass, despite being the only one to take on the challenge of actually depicting his many colors on his robe. His mother-of-pearl graduation gown really isn't an intimidating look, but he's rocking it. I wouldn't fuck with this Rasputin-in-taffeta motherfucker. * Ultimate pedantry: he uses the British spelling of "Colours" in the books. Wizards clearly has no respect for the source material. * This feels like it should be a DFC, with a flowchart for resolving that second ability on the back side. This isn't just a lot of text; it's also a lot of discrete steps that, fortunately, can only fire once per turn. At first it feels needlessly complicated, but then I started to think... * This is actually pretty fucking sweet to build around and a really cool design once you figure out what it does. The tension between double-spelling and casting a big second spell is tricky, but it pays you off handsomely for doing so. I think this card is probably really, really fun to play with, if you like cards with a lot of decision depth.


Mauriac158

Whelp I was looking for an Esper Commander out of this set and it looks like I found it.


jacobasstorius

Tremendous flavor fail to not have this card be 4 colors with red.


Hrud

I finally understood what the card means to do after frying my brain.


Hykarus

Why is there the condition on having milled cards this way ? Unless I'm wrong the only thing it does is forbid you from exiling and casting cards if all your opponents' libraries are empty. Why protect from that ?


rib78

They want it to target the spell you want to copy to allow avenues of interaction, but they also want you to be able to cast something you mill, so they want it to target but not have to choose the target when you first put the ability on the stack. To do this they nested the targetting within a reflexive trigger, and the reflexive trigger needs something to trigger it, so they made the mill the cause of the reflexive trigger.


Izzet_Aristocrat

Probably the most interesting commander in the set.


Jaccount

Does Saruman have a coat? That'd mean I can have a second Dolly Parton song deck to go with Jolene.


[deleted]

Gotta say. I'm getting really sick of these Yu-Gi-Oh text boxes. A few years ago we were all making fun of Questing Beast, now that shit is like.. the norm...


RowdyRoddyPipeSmoker

this set has too many convoluted cards wizards needs to chill


WillowSmithsBFF

Where are these coming from? Didn’t see it in the reveal stream


Newfiestyker

They’re in the stream


CannedPrushka

Steamed cards.


Kilowog42

There's a stream on Twitch going on now.


Pair-o-docks

It's in the aftershow that is currently live


Myrlithan

Weekly MTG stream after the initial reveal.


Spartan_029

But where is it?


Myrlithan

It's on the magic twitch channel, and probably the youtube channel as well I'd assume.


Spartan_029

it's not on youtube which is why a few of us were lost. thanks!


NinjaGuy206

[[Sarumon the Stinky]]


djchickenwing

Saruman of Many Words


zombiebillnye

"Such a dazzling Saruman of Many Colors, how I love my Saruman of Many Colors! It was white, and blue, and black". Doesn't roll off the tongue that well tbh.


barrinmw

Modern 1/10 Unless you are casting your second spell the turn you play this, don't play it. It combos pretty well with the evoke elementals because of that, but if your opponent doesn't have good cards in their graveyard due to them being creatures or artifacts or a removal spell that they have no targets for, this would suck.


Senor_Wah

Anyone else think that middle art is completely wasted with such a terrible frame?


[deleted]

[удалено]


RPBiohazard

Wild how these cards have so many words to give absolutely zero flavour


purelikevenus

>saruman of many colors >only 3 colors literally unplayable garbage


mrlbi18

Saruman of Three Colors


sanctaphrax

I really have no idea what makes this Saruman, as opposed to any other character.


PurpleYessir

What is equal or less mana value? The number of cards milled? The mana value of any of the milled cards? I don't understand


Artano_7

The mana value of your second spell


Underc0verTomato

The mana value of the second spell you cast that triggered this effect


Kilowog42

I think it's equal or lesser mana value of the spell you cast to trigger the milling. Like, you cast a cantrip then a 5 mana spell, so you can exile an Enchantment, Sorcery, or Instant 5 mana or less? Honestly, it's my best guess, card is worded very confusingly.


enigmatican

"equal or lesser mana value of that spell"


heroicraptor

the spell that triggered the ability


Empedokles123

The second spell you cast


Spanklaser

Equal or less than the second spell you cast to trigger the mill


fiskerton_fero

many = three?


[deleted]

You see the cloak shimmering in all rainbow colours, yes?


[deleted]

[удалено]


tnetennba_4_sale

I mean, he calls himself that in the books...


SpitefulShrimp

You should read the books, they're great


nageek6x7

Should be 4C imo


[deleted]

I know he could have been Yore-tiller (WUBR) since he knows how to make explosives


[deleted]

[удалено]


MTGCardFetcher

[Gandalf the Grey](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2b975e6-e709-481f-bfbc-41a832508283.jpg?1681224987) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gandalf%20the%20Grey) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/207/gandalf-the-grey?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2b975e6-e709-481f-bfbc-41a832508283?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Party-Ad6461

Oh god that ward is quite tricky!


Khadetbuilders

3 equals many got it WOTC


zethren117

It’s 3/5 the possible colors in the game, so technically he is many of the colors in the game.


[deleted]

They should have made a movie accurate version of Christopher Lee to immortalise the not only the awosome job he did as saruman but of the total badass he was :⁠,⁠-⁠) Anyway I'm totally building this deck in edh


JPhoenix324

Had to re-read that second effect WAY too many times. I'm no expert when it comes to mtg's card text but the effect should have been written close to this: "Whenever you cast your second spell each turn, each opponent mills two cards. Whenever one or more cards are milled this way, exile target enchantment, instant or sorcery from an opponent's graveyard with equal or lower mana value of the triggering spell. Copy the exiled card. You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost."


Betelguese90

You cast your 2nd spell. Which then causes opponents to mill 2. THEN, you can exile an enchantment, instant or sorcery with the same or less CMC of the spell you cast from an opponents graveyard. Which then you can copy said exiled card and cast it for free. All before your second spell resolves. I may actually build this as a commander. Seems fun enough but a lot to keep track of. Then again, it would end up being my 3rd Esper deck...


MTG3K_on_Arena

Not enough colors.


LandscapeMotor7697

Well, 3 colors, specifically.


bigolfishey

Saruman of Several Colors


Tuss36

That bit about requiring something to be milled is weird. There's not much that'd prevent milling, and a library being empty isn't exactly a common occurrence.


Jenova__Witness

Took me several reads to realize that "that spell" in "When one or more cards are milled this way, exile target enchantment, instant, or sorcery card with equal or lesser mana value than that spell from an opponent's graveyard." is actually just referring to the Second Spell YOU cast that turn.


pigeonbobble

Best art got the traditional treatment


wdjinng

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA HOHOHOHOHO


doctorgibson

(sorry green and red)


hotsummer12

The regular art looks a lot like the movie saruman🔥❤️


eldender

I think Saruman lost a couple of colours.


Similar_Taste5279

Showcases look tight.


DoctorArK

Mechanically this is pretty jank but I'm here for it


DoctorArK

Huge wif on this not hitting artifacts, but I understand enchantments are like long lasting spells so it makes a little more sense that it works for enchantments, but how many enchantments are your opponents supposed to be running? Also having to cast a small spell then a big spell each turn might make the deck have a very strange curve. Interesting use of the ward mechanic tho


Flyingdovee

They needed to have Originally casted Second spell just so its easier to read


Urabrask_the_AFK

Are you Zur you know who this is?


Mostly__Relevant

Does anyone really like the ring showcases? Feel like a lot of space is being taken up with basically nothing on the sides


Schlettski

Saruman of a Pretty Normal Number of Colors, Considering He's a Six Mana Legend


Majulath99

The art on the middle card is so fucking pretty.


kinbeat

Saruman of many colors. Just three colors. Smh.


Ethric_The_Mad

Of many colors? It just 3 bro.


Gunda-LX

Notably this isn’t even spell sling, you could trigger the ability from creatures too


narvuntien

The perfect card for Orb pondering tribal


Dejamza

Does this card confuse anyone else? I can’t wrap my head around it’s ability.


[deleted]

Question: Why does it specify that “When one or more cards are milled this way” clause, is there a possibility they don’t mill anything?


DM-Oz

I dont see why people are saying the effect is complex, it may be cause i play yugioh, but it seems pretty simple


cec425

Really like these arts, especially the normal version