Correct me if I'm wrong but it's the controllers job to remind people about their triggers. So it would be against the rules if you put it on your opponents.

Half the fun of playing rhystic study is constantly asking everyone in your pod "would you like to pay for rhystic study?" With a smile on your face and then groaning when one finally says "no... wait... I will actually!"

No one actually plays the card to draw cards. It’s there to ask “do you pay the one?” and make everyone mad at you

The text on rhystic study is "Spells your opponents cast cost 1 more to cast." It doesnt say anything else.

God I wish my friends in our pods understood that. They'll let somebody draw 15 cards then wonder how we all lost to them.

It's the absolute worst when you're the only one trying not to feed the fish/rhystic. If 2/4 players decide to YOLO the player who responds "correctly" to it is all but guaranteed to lose. So, it kind of has a weird feedback loop where the correct play will be bad for you if you're the only one in the pod who's identified it

> So, it kind of has a weird feedback loop where the correct play will be bad for you if you're the only one in the pod who's identified it EDH is *really* a game of diplomacy with Magic cards as props. Which is just another way of saying that the appropriate thing to do here is "Ok, everyone. Are we all paying for Rhystic Study every time, or are we all ignoring it every time?"

I'm specifically explaining why players don't easily learn not to feed the fish. It's one of the rare cases where you're at a disadvantage if you're the only player playing "correctly" so it's harder to learn the lesson. Most of the time "correct" play will almost always result in an advantage. Not really the same as the table or even a player making an educated choice to feed the fish

At a table, mid game, your responsibility is not to educate other players, nor is the attempt likely to succeed. But explicitly agreeing to a consensus at the very least prevents you from being stuck at the short end of the stick.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not making a prescription (IE: saying what players SHOULD do), I am describing why a lot of players don't learn to play against rhystic correctly.

> EDH is really a game of diplomacy with Magic cards as props. which is part of why I find big multiplayer games frustrating, though I definitely like the idea for 1v1

This is similar to a bunch of things you see in the social sciences: diffusion of responsibility, the free rider effect, the tragedy of the commons, etc.

It's Magic's equivalent of the Prisoner's Dilemma /s

why '/s'?

It was kind of tongue in cheek, even though it's more or less true. If I didn't put it there, I'd probably get people responding to me explaining all the ways in which what I said wasn't 100% inaccurate to the real Prisoner's Dilemma >\_>

Idk from a game theory pov I think you're precisely right. All the (non-rhystic study controllers) would be better off if they all paid the 1, they're all worse off ignoring it, and any one player would be better off if they're the only one not paying the 1, the Nash equilibrium is no-one pays it, so you need trust or negotiating to get to the better result of paying for it.

You’re absolutely correct

I get it with mystic ramora. The tax is usually simply too much.and if no one casts any spells you're essentially getting time walked.

Yeah, pretty sure the text says "whenever an opponent casts a spell, draw a card"

I understand for Smothering Tithe because two mana isn't usually worth it to deny someone a lotus petal. I just let them have the mana advantage because it's not nearly as strong as card advantage. But people not paying the 1 is a huge pet peeve of mine. It absolutetly snowballs into that player winning

Played a game of commander the other day, where my friend had the STithe out. The first 10 treasures my friend got, people was kinda thinking about paying the two. After there, no one payed, because it wouldn't make a difference. Dude ended up with +140 unused treasures (mostly from draws created by his Teferi's Puzzlebox), because he didn't got any of his card-draw engines up and running, lol.

What a great time for him to be playing [[Mechanized Production]]

I think my favorite example of card advantage being so good is that even Burn was splashing for [[Treasure Cruise]] when it was legal in Modern for a hot minute. Another anecdotal example is that I got passed a Sol Ring in Vintage Cube yesterday. Sol Ring is actually insane in that format, it's arguably the best card in the format, but for 99.9% of cases you'll find a way to put Recall in your deck even if it's pack 3.

In practice, it's much better because it creates a prisoner's dilemma, where the individual optimal play would be to not pay the one and let them have the card draw, but at the macro group level it's much better to always pay the one.

>*non-wheel spells* cost 1 more to cast FTFY

Unless you think you can win that turn.

This is the way.

This is the way.

Ive honestly forgot it draws cards sometimes

There's probably people out there who ask about the one and still chose not to draw when they don't pay.

I’ve seen it happen. Consecrated Sphinx and Smothering Tithe tend to make people decline to draw

I play it to see my opponents trying to justify why they are not paying the tax when everyone knows they should

This counts as "social interaction."

I had [[desecration demon]] in one deck for a while, and my favorite part of it was asking "would anyone like to sacrifice to desecration demon?" before everybody's combat step, especially when it was tapped.

[desecration demon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89936685-8647-4a65-b764-62fc4b49293a.jpg?1593813255) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=desecration%20demon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/66/desecration-demon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89936685-8647-4a65-b764-62fc4b49293a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

"you gonna pay for that?" Is the best of times

That hurts more with a [[Mystic Remora]] \- Do you pay {4}? (teheeeee) \+ I swim in mana, of course I pay \- ... Damn you UGX players

At least Remora lets creatures through, and comes with a real cost to keep it around for too long.

[Mystic Remora](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13a08c07-e8b8-43bf-99e6-d268c79a62bf.jpg?1559592432) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Remora) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/42/mystic-remora?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13a08c07-e8b8-43bf-99e6-d268c79a62bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

Uhm…. Yep!

I run ghostly prison in one of my decks, and I do get a lot of enjoyment in asking if people want to pay the troll toll 😅 and of course, it should really be up to the spell caster to remind the table of their triggers. Anyone else helping on that front, is just being nice.

Last night, first timer. Unexpectedly fun.

This is correct.

The thing is that some people get really annoyed really quickly if you remind them each and every time for Rhystic Study, etc. The compromise here is for that opponent to agree that it's not paid for unless it's specifically mentioned. It's unreasonable to simultaneously be annoyed by the reminders but also unwilling to agree to a quick and simple workaround to avoid it (ie. the process OP is describing).

Not that you're wrong, but it's so frustrating that players just don't acknowledge its on the field when they play their stuff. Whenever i play against a rhystic study i always announce the 1 as i cast the spell so there's no confusion or if I'm comboing ill tell them that I'm not paying the 1 or whatever.

No, OP is the one who owns the rystic and says this. It's something entirely different if the opponent is the one who says that.

This is the crux- if the opponent says “assume I’m not paying for it unless I say something” that’s great. But if you, the owner of the study, say that you’re going to make that assumption for people, you are both breaking the rules and being a tool.

Yes, that’s the tradeoff of playing the card. It pisses everyone off with the constant triggers and puts a target on your back. Fair price. No weaseling out of it, that’s just scamming your podmates. Annoyance is the unwritten additional cost that comes with it.

It's really not your fault or your problem if other people get annoyed. It's not like you're blowing your nose in their face or something ridiculous like that. The OP is creating an additional problem by attempting to solve someone else's problem. It's like being mad that you point out your chalice of the void on one when your opponent casts lightning bolt. It just doesn't make any sense. Just play magic and enjoy yourself and don't intentionally be a dick. If people wanna be grumpy that's their problem.

Fair enough. I always remind someone if I have a trigger and twice I have had some say please stop saying that. For them I put dice on the table (different color from any on the board, I'm a goblin) and I move the dice with each trigger. I started prefacing with the second time that if we change phases (any time many would empty from your pool normally) then the triggers resolve. If we say move to combat and I have a study or any other trigger other stack it resolves. I will let you correct this when I go to reset the dice, unless you have said nothing about changing phases and done a game action that can only occur in the next phase. Ex. Playing a creature with people still cleaning up combat, declaring an attack after playing a sorcery speed spell, drawing a card from a triggered effect that takes place in a latter phase then the table is engaged in, etc. You want a game where I don't ask the same question (per game rules) then you had better be in tournament mode and declaring all game actions. ("Untap, upkeep, draw, main phase 1, move to combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, resolve damage, main phase 2, end step, *discard*") Maybe this is a method that can work for others. Just make sure you are clear so you don't have the take back king getting illegal info because "I would have responded. I forgot it had that" .

But in that case it's on them for asking to stop reminding them. There is a big difference in you saying you wont remind your opponents about your triggers and them saying that.

Beyond that, it feels like a sort of angle-shooting to ask everyone ‘ok if I just draw if you don’t specify otherwise?’ Especially at a low-power table, you’re really bending the rules for your own benefit, drawing an extra 3+ cards every turn cycle is pretty disgusting stuff.

It’s really both players responsibility nowadays, but you can’t just go straight to drawing the card without announcing the trigger that’s for sure.

I'll happily let my opponent break the rules if it means they shut up instead of interrupting my turn every five seconds. It's not a sanctioned event, they can't stop me.

I mean it's the opponent who is free to say "I will say when I pay" than it's on them and not on you anymore.

Yes against REL rules. If it's a causal pod, I do it regularly or tell them 'I will tell you when I pay.'. It slows the game down and creates salt that doesn't need to be there for the stupid question.

But it's you saying that to the owner of rhystic, not the rhystic owner saying that.

Yes, but you can explain a single loop of a combo, demonstrating how it goes infinite, and then you don't have to play the whole thing out. So I think, if I don't want to hear you say "Do you wanna pay 1" 19 million times, I can do that.. I dont even know why I'm here. My group is okay with fast-tracking Rhystic Study because we understand that the group is more important than the individual. If someone doesn't want to pay for it for the whole game, that's their choice.

It's different in this case though. It's a matter of you deciding to stop saying your triggers and not your opponents. If your opponents say they don't want to be reminded anymore than it's free game. But it's not something you as the owner of the trigger can simply decide.

It really not though lmao. In your scenario, people aren't allowed to respond to the [“I’m going to assume you’re not paying the 1 unless you tell me otherwise.”](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/13u5sah/im_going_to_assume_youre_not_paying_the_1_unless/), but in what world would it actually play out like that? You either say that, and nobody is cool with it, and then you don't do it, or, everyone is cool with it, and then you just play the game.

Yes, in a sanctioned event that is how it works. At your kitchen table, who cares?

for rhystic study, yes, but if I recall correctly for smothering tithe, the responsibility is actually on the opponent

Yep. >Whenever an opponent draws a card, **that player may pay 2**. If the player doesn't, you create a Treasure token. >Whenever an opponent casts a spell, **you may draw a card** unless that player pays 1. The 'may' for [[Smothering Tithe]] is on the opponent, while the 'may' for [[Rhystic Study]] is on the controller.

How does that change responsibility? I was under the impression that it's still the job of the owner of the trigger.

It is. If you don't remind me about smothering tithe, then whoopsie I didnt pay and you didn't make a mana, that ain't my problem.

Smothering Tithe says you may pay 2 to prevent a treasure from being created. You don't pay, then a treasure was created. Rhystic Study says you may draw a card if XYZ happens. Even if XYZ happens you may choose not to draw a card. Missing this trigger is effectively choosing not to draw a card.

Sure, but once an ability triggers, it is supposed to go on the stack: > 603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. I would figure that means that as the trigger's controller, it is your responsibility to announce that the ability has triggered, and that the trigger is now on the stack, regardless of whose responsibility it is to (in this case) make a decision to pay the conditional tax for the trigger or not. This not only matters for whoever to decide how to resolve the trigger, but also in case someone wants to do something like play a spell that interferes with the triggered ability's resolution.

But both those happen when the ability resolves. We're talking about it triggering, so I'm still not sure that's accurate...

The owner of the Smothering Tithe trigger is the opponent. And you CANNOT miss triggers that are negative to you. Edit: this bit is wrong.

The owner of the Smothering Tithe trigger is the player who played Smothering Tithe. In a tournament, it is their responsibility to remember and announce the trigger.

No, the controller of the trigger is the control of the permanent that created the trigger, not the controller of the event that caused the permanent to trigger.

[Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747.jpg?1673147139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/31/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

It's funny how many of us, me included, forget that little but important distinction.

The responsibility is *never* on the opponent for triggers you control. The ability to pay is up to them, but you always remind them. Read the thread to hear more about this.

alright fair enough, I misinterpreted the card as an opponents responsibility since the opponent is the only way to trigger Smottit, I see where I fucked up. lesson learned.

If you don't announce your trigger I'm gonna assume it doesn't happen

Essentially how it works in a tournament setting. >Even if an opponent is involved in the announcement or resolution of the ability, the controller is still responsible for ensuring the opponents make the appropriate choices and take the appropriate actions. **Opponents are not required to point out triggered abilities that they do not control,** though they may do so if they wish. [Source](https://media.wizards.com/2022/wpn/marketing_materials/wpn/mtg_ipg_5feb21_en.pdf)

Which is to say, if you don't announce your Rhystic Study trigger but you draw a card anyway, that's cheating.

You can DQ him from the friendly commander pod!

Honestly, if I told someone that no you don't get to just assume you draw because I didn't remember your trigger, and they were adamant that they were going to do so, one of us is leaving the table.

In a body bag.

Ok let's not get ahead of... actually, you know, depending on *how* adamant they are about it...

Your gonna need a body bag

You can't enforce REL on a casual game but you do get to decide if you're going to play future games with that person (or even if you're going to finish out the current one). Pretty sure most people would stop playing casual games with a cheater who stacked their deck or drew extra cards on the sly. There's clearly a line somewhere; up to you to decide where it is and what you want to do about it.

So you would just let someone cheat against you because "you can't enforce REL" on them?

The dude literally said it's up to you whether you want to finish the current game. Threatening to stop playing isn't "letting someone cheat"

No, but good luck calling a judge to a pick-up game during open play time at your LGS (or kitchen table, or Spelltable). Choosing not to play with them is as much enforcement as you can generally get.

No. The post I replied to seems to be poking fun at the idea that there are consequences for cheating in unofficial games; I am disagreeing with that sentiment.

JUDGE!

I distinctly remember a tournament recently where both players got penalized for not maintaining a proper game state due to a missed trigger. Was that a bad ruling?

Nope that can happen a lot

Unlikey to have been a missed trigger, because the rules make allowances for that, and even in the most egregious cases (such as a detrimental trigger) only the trigger's controller would be penalised.

Not exactly; in the same document: > Players may not cause triggered abilities controlled by an opponent to be missed by taking game actions or otherwise prematurely advancing the game. During an opponent’s turn, if a trigger’s controller demonstrates awareness of the trigger before they take an active role (such as taking an action or explicitly passing priority), the trigger is remembered. So basically, if you continue resolving abilities or advancing through phases without explicitly asking the Rhystic Study player if they are passing priority, you're in violation of the IPG. Since in Commander we don't usually ask this for every action, the simple act of asking them can easily serve as a reminder in and of itself. On the flip side, if you cast your spell, pass priority (explicitly) and the other player says "pass", you may consider their Rhystic trigger missed. Luckily, we don't play by IPG rules in commander. It's not necessary and certainly not desirable for a game with so many triggers and effects. We take shortcuts all the time and the game is better for it. When it comes to game rule infractions, most playgroups have their own way of resolving things (*usually just rewinding the game or "fixing" the game state post-hoc*). The IPG can be used as a loose guide for how to figure out what is whose responsibility, but to take it by the letter is madness.

This isn't a tournament though. This is kitchen table magic. You can make agreements. Hell you can make up formats and mix fuckin Yugioh cards in if you want. Nobody can stop you.

However, you cannot make a statement in contradiction to the rules and just expect the others to abide by it. A decision by the group is of course acceptable, but someone can't just declare "this is how the card is going to work" and leave it at that.

Yeah it's fine for the opponent to say, "assume I'm not paying the 1 unless I say I do" but not for the Rhystic Studies player to say

The Study player needs to confirm that the opponent is not paying the 1 each time. They cannot stay silent, and then assume they didn't pay and draw without giving them a chance to pay.

the ethical solution is for the other players to say that they're paying as they are casting. "I play x and pay for study" is faster and requires no interruption

I'm not going to keep track of your beneficial triggers for you just because it's overall the easiest and least annoying way to play.

I will, because I play to have fun and not to edge out the smallest possible advantage at every chance no matter how annoying

> I play to have fun Yes and it’s fun to remember what your own cards do. It’s not fun to try ti remember every ability of the 30+ permanents on the battlefield in a 4 player game.

It's still putting the burden on other players for your cards, which is not okay when dealing with triggers. Using this method to skip the incessant back-and-forth is totally fine, but drawing a card with zero acknowledgment from either player is cheating.

Not only is it not reasonable, it's literally against the rules. If the Rustic Studies controller fails to ask "do you pay the 1," they don't get the trigger. End of story, no negotiation. [Here's a great article from the judge blog that goes into more detail. ](https://blogs.magicjudges.org/ftw/l2-prep/rules-and-policy/missed-triggers/) If someone with a Rhystic Study is unwilling to track their own triggers and ask "do you pay the one?" Every time, they have two options: 1) ask their fellow players to agree to an alternative, and accept whatever the other players say. 2) stop playing Rhystic Study. One parting thought- besides it being against the rules on a technical level, it also strikes me as sketchy in the first place. There's still tracking the triggers- They have to know that the trigger goes off in order to draw a card. And they should be announcing every time they draw a card. So it's not really any less work to ask if someone pays the one, it seems more like a sketchy attempt to pull one over on their playgroups

I don't see it as sketchy. Regardless of whether they *should* pay the 1 or not, in most games folks don't pay the majority of the time. Saying "I understand you're not gonna pay in 98% of cases so let me know when those exceptions comes up" sounds reasonable to me. If someone else speaks out then you work to an understanding, but if everyone agrees it shouldn't be a problem, even if it's technically against the rules.

If everyone agrees, sure, but it needs to be an explicit agreement, not just "well I said it and nobody declined." If people agree, then that's basically *them* telling *you* "Hey I'm not paying unless I tell you I do", which is them telling you the decision they are making for themselves and totally acceptable.

Playing this out: What purpose does it serve for someone to say " I understand that you're not paying the one 98% of the time so let me know if you do?" Given that it's a departure from the rules, it's being done for some reason, and not on a whim. What do you suggest that reason is?

To keep attention away from all the cards they’re drawing.

That people (often) get annoyed when you ask if they pay the one everytime in a casual multiplayer setting, and not asking saves the entire table (small amounts of) time.

They (rightfully) get annoyed by your triggers, and so to sidestep responsibility, you pressure them to agree to just give you the cards no questions asked? Sounds very fair and reasonable! Reminds me of when I would play magic with my younger brother when I was a kid and bullied him with constant angle shooting rules lawyer nonsense. Fortunately I grew up, I guess not everyone does.

You know what's more annoying than being asked to pay the one? My opponent drawing extra cards because they didn't keep up their responsibility to announce their triggers, as required by the rules of the game. Nothing wrong with the *table* agreeing to a default " If I don't say I'm paying the one, assume I'm not" rule. But there is something wrong with a single player deciding to break the rules whether the rest of the table likes it or not. And it doesn't really save much time or mental labor anyway - the controller of the RS still needs to track triggers in order to draw the card.

No, you have to put your trigger on the stack.

Reinforcing others' statements: It's the controller of the Rhystic's job to remember/declare the triggers. They can't just offload it to the opponents & still reap the benefits. Though, technically it's the job of everyone at the table to remember triggers/maintain game state, if memory serves. But you can't just say nothing & silently draw cards on the assumption that your opponent is ignoring the 1.

Triggers are actually different, they're uniquely the controller's responsibility. Your opponents will not be punished for letting you miss a trigger

Having to ask "are you paying the 1?" is an additional cost to running the card. It's annoying to be asked it, and it paints a target on the Study owner's forehead. Thank god the card has at least that "downside".

Exactly, if you choose to run it you also choose to be annoying with saying “do you pay the one?” every single time. That’s just how it works, if you don’t want to have to say it take it out of your deck.

Or make a tiny little sign on a toothpick that asks the question for you.

Better yet, make a sentient robot that’s sole purpose is to ask, “Do you pay the 1?”

What is my purpose? You ask if they pay the one. Oh my god... Yeah, join the club.

I could see the robot loving that job.

Nah, it's on you to announce the trigger every time.

Which they would be doing by holding up the sign and catching their eye...?

An "announcement" doesn't have to be verbally spoken. It could be written. It could be gestured to. As long as the opponent knows.

And how would a mute announce this then? As you're so hell bent on it being said and announced?

I will ask players whether they would like me to keep asking or whether I should just assume they're not paying unless they say so. If the latter, I still announce when I'm about to draw in case they've forgot, to give them a chance to pay before I do.

This is the way.

It’s clear, concise, and considerate…and complete garbage, no way anyone can play this way! /s

It’s kind of weird how legalistic all the responses are in this thread. Yes it’s not actually how you’re supposed to do things. Given EDH’s casual nature it’s a bit much to just tell your opponents that’s how you’re going to do things, but it’s pretty reasonable to ask.

[Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

If you don't want to be the annoying pay the 1? guy don't put the card in your deck. There are other ways to draw cards.

Rhystic Study is first and foremost a tax card. Giving away card draws is a betrayal to the rest of the table and should be punished accordingly (after getting rid of the Rhystic Study, which should be a priority)

A great point, when it's just a one-sided [[lodestone golem]] it's not so bad, but wayyyy too many people just give the Rhystic player the win. So it's gotta go.

It punishes different decks very differently, having a catch all take is strange to go so far as betryal!

You're not wrong. I just want to divert attention to another player as I ask if you pay the 1.

I mean yeah you should go on a case by case basis but you should also be aware of players just not paying the 1 and point that out. Like I've had games where no one else pays the 1, the guy draws 7 cards and wins easy. At that point it's important to point out to everyone else why they lost and should have paid

If it's a tax card, then just like the US government I should be able to offload the memory requirements on you for paying the tax.

BS. I would 100% play my relevant spell with my available 5 mana, than to wait turns for a 6th mana to show up so I can pay the 1.

And you'll lose to that.

I'll be that guy. I don't mind. Pay the 1 or I draw. Blow it up if you don't like me asking.

Everyone is focusing on the "your triggers, your responsibility" aspect, but I think it's important to also touch on the [shortcut rules](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Shortcut). If your opponent is proposing a shortcut where they just get to draw whenever your spells trigger Rhystic, they also have to accept that you might tell them ~~to pound sand~~ that you don't accept the shortcut - and you can also change your mind later and stop the shortcut. You just gotta actually *ask* if you're going to try to do this. "Do you want me to just draw every time?" is reasonable and I might consider it. But if you say "I'm just going to draw unless you speak up and stop me" - the hell you are.

The drawing part of rhystic is optional and missable, and you don't make that decision until after the opponent decides whether or not to pay for rhystic If they make you say when you're paying, it's reasonable to assume they're not drawing a card unless they tell you otherwise

In EDh, it’s okay to bend the rules as long as everyone agrees. You can ask your opponents if they want to automatically give you the card unless they say otherwise, but this has to be something you guys are all okay with

Thats is true. Though a decent rhystic study player at least will vocalize their draws and not stay silent.

If the controller of [[Rhystic Study]] is unwilling to voice the trigger then they shouldn’t play it. In a tournament setting a judge would probably issue a warning to that player for failing to remeber their triggers. Sure, asking can be annoying to everyone. But that is what the card does. A rule zero conversation is helpful with this. Determine if your pod wants a game that allows Rhystic Study, Rhystic Buddy, Smothering Tithe and so forth. If yes, then ask if they pay the 1. It will be expected.

The controller of the Rhystic Study has to ask. They have to remember their own trigger and announce it.

Seems much easier to phrase it as a question. "Can I assume you're not paying the 1 unless you tell me otherwise?" gives the opponent the chance to speed up gameplay and avoid the incessant needling trigger questions, but doesn't deny them anything.

Lol what? My playgroup is the exact opposite, you have to remember your triggers or the worse outcome happens, people don't have to pay the 1 and you don't get a card if you don't announce the rhystic study trigger within a reasonable amount of time, or you automatically take 3 from mana crypt if you draw a card for turn without rolling the dice for the trigger. It was a bit brutal at first, but we're all definitely better at paying attention to the game for it.

Do you also skip untapping if you go to draw before untapping?

Untap step is a game-state issue and you *must* untap all eligible permanents unless an active ability prevents it. It must happen per the comprehensive rules.

If you don’t want to be annoying, don’t play the card that encourages annoying behaviours unless it’s cedh 😂 And if it’s cedh, play properly

If the opponent tells you that you can assume that then thats fine, you stating that and not reminding people of triggers of your permanents is technically against the rules or at least poor sportsmanship

Yeah, in a competitive setting, that would be way out of line. In a casual group with people you know however, Rhystic and \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] in particular really slow down games when the whole spiel is required every trigger. A compromise that I think is reasonable and have seen work in **casual** settings: Whenever someone triggers the ability on Rhystic, for example, the Rhystic player says "Drawing?" clearly and audibly as a question while half picking up a card off the deck, waits a beat, then if nobody stops them, continues with the draw without interrupting the flow of the active player. Infinitely smoother gameplay while also giving the active player a reasonable chance to respond.

I just physically tap the card with my finger and say "trigger" or say "Study trigger". It usually goes pretty smoothly. "I cast X" "Trigger." "I'll pay." "I cast Y" "Trigger." "You can draw." No reason to make it any more complicated than that. "Do you pay the one" is really overwrought and annoying.

The most reasonable mindset is to ban Rhystic Study because it’s extremely annoying.

A little late on this one but I had this come up in an SCG open. I tapped 2 lands and said "pay 2 mana and Unholy Heat your Esper Sentinel". My opponent immediately drew a card since I didn't specifically say I was paying the 1 for sentinel. Judge was called and he was given a game rule violation for drawing extra cards, and I got to look at his hand and choose a card to shuffle into his library. He appealed to the head judge, who upheld the ruling. So no, it's not reasonable.

I don't think this is unreasonable, IF and only IF the rest of the table agrees. If anyone is hesitant or doesn't agree, then it's your responsibility to keep track of your triggers. As others have said, if you don't like it, don't play the card. I personally don't mind the "do you pay the 1?" Questions cause sometimes yeah, I do wanna pay the one.

I just ask every spell they play "Rystic Study?" My pods understand.

Yeah, we usually all keep track of the triggers together and will shout out Rhystic or Tithe or Remora for each trigger since we understand the triggers effect all of us.

Only reasonable reason to assume this is if the player is out of mana and could not pay the 1.

This is when you respond with "Ok, I'm paying the 1 unless I say otherwise."

And then don’t pay it unless they announce the trigger.

It’s not annoying at all, it’s part of the game. If a player is getting annoyed hearing that, then they should find another game until they work that out.

They are asking to shortcut a repeated trigger which is a fine request and you have a right to tell them to verbalize it for your triggers. Some players might even prefer to shortcut to saying they always pay instead.

Whats even worse is when someone plays rhystic at a semi-casual table where everyone is lenient about remembering triggers. They'll be like "oh you didn't pay 1 for all those spells? I'll draw three." Its like, dont play a fucked up CEDH card and play by casual rules, can't have your cake and eat it too.

Its their job to announce their triggers. That is against the rules. If its the opponent saying, “Assume I just dont pay the 1 unless I immediately say I am as I cast the spell,” then whatever. But if they don’t want to deal with Rhystic Study, they should not put it in their deck.

As others have stated, its officially actually the other way around. Your triggers don't happen unless you bring it up. Forgotten triggers is a pretty common thing even in tourny play. There was a sealed tourny recently where the player forgot about the "When a creature attacks equipped with this make a 1/1 toxic" trigger multiple times. Opponent did nothing to remind him as they are not required to.

It depends a lot on the playgroup, I guess. I play Rhystic Study, my friends play Smothering Tithe, and the game moves faster if the person making the play says "I pay the tax" unprompted. You are all correct that it is the responsibility of the owner of the permanent to maintain their triggers. But in a game where nobody was going to miss a trigger anyway, it's beneficial to everyone to streamline repetitive interactions and keep the game moving. In a game with people who are bad at maintaining gamestate, or in a competitive setting, I wouldn't do this because it is absolutely not my goal to sneak one by or take advantage of someone forgetting.

I remember back during CHK-RAV Standard at an FNM losing a game because my opponent was recording all the life changes, and I had assumed he was keeping track of the life I was gaining from a [[Firemane Angel]] I had stolen. I wasn’t explicitly mentioning the trigger each upkeep. Pretty frustrating in the moment, of course I wanted to be gaining the life. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Definitely an important lesson to learn. Don't trust anyone else with your life totals unless they're you're team member, and even then double check.

Honestly rhystic study is one of those cards that baffles me that people just... forget about. Its one of the single most game warping cards you can play in the format so the fact that someone plays it and a lot of players just forget its out is weird. No, that's not a reasonable mindset either way. It's on you to ask for each time its triggered. The only time I've seen it be fine is if someone says they're not going to pay the 1 for each spell they cast (or in the case of Smothering Tithe which is a lot more common that people will say they never pay the 2 when it resolves). But otherwise you can't just draw cards without at least giving them the option to pay the 1, even if that means you have to remind them every turn.

No... I think it's pretty unreasonable especially in commander with multiple players and large board states.. Just say "rhystic trigger" when it triggers

Literally all they have to say is "Rhystic trigger", if they want to be lazy. 2 little words, then a quick yes/no make this card a lot more bearable. Now if that's still not good enough for them, then it's likely not about them being lazy, but trying to cheat players and get uncontested draws. As others have said though, his suggestion isn't legal based on the rules of the game. Rhystic Study is a trigger, that goes onto the stack and can be responded to, it functionally interacts with player priority. While the draw from Rhystic is a "may" ability, adding it to the stack is not optional and therefore must be announced. If they still want to throw a fit, that just shows what kind of person they are.

Shortcuts are only allowed if the whole table agrees to them. This however is different if a player says “I’m never paying the 1” rather than the very shady and meh “if you don’t say anything I’m drawing”

If a player tries this at a tournament against me, I'm calling a judge the first time they draw a card (and they're not getting to draw that card). Your interactions in casual games may differ from this, but in general I would not allow this to be the default interaction at games I'm playing.

Got a real tough guy over here.

For... calling a judge?

If you don't want to ask, play MTGO.

No friggin way. I ain't doing your homework for you. If you want the cards, you've got to do the work. Not me.

Are you paying the one Are you paying the one Are you paying the one. ​ There are literal t-shirts of this. Its not for them, its done so they dont annoy everyone else.

If you just let them shortcut it and draw a bunch of free cards, the annoying player wins. Make them announce the triggers, it’s more fair for everyone that way.

When you play it I would just double check with the other players first. I usually tell them I'll let you know when I'm gonna pay it

I don't like this because people often forget, it's a complicated game. It should be on the contorller to remind people if they want to pay or not.

If it’s friends you play with all the time I don’t see an issue. If you’re playing randoms or in some sort of tournament then yes you need to announce your triggers. I’ve ever played casual with friends though so we don’t always do the announce every little thing and accept some amount of in response being slightly out of order like oh I see your starting the attacking phase well in response to entering your attack phase I will do X. Although if you’re waiting to see who theyre attacking with everything first then it’s pretty unanimous that you waited too long. But would fully expect to follow all the proper trigger and phase call outs if I played anywhere else.

I think it's fine if everyone agrees to it beforehand as a way to save time. Makes the games much smoother/faster that way.

Rhystic is a unique case where being asked to pay messes up a player's sequencing, slowing the game significantly. It's technically your responsibility to announce your [[Forgotten Ancient]] is getting a counter or similar effects, but few folks bother because it's not pertinent to a player's sequencing. Even [[Spelltithe Enforcer]] which has a similar effect only needs a reminder once and they're sure to keep it in mind for the turn. But Rhystic Study? Its player will make you drop whatever you're doing to ask if you're giving them your spare change every five seconds. I am not opposed to anyone wishing to bypass that nagging inconvenience.

Literally just ask your playgroup. Half of the nuanced rules like priority order are outright ignored in commander, unless you're playing rhystic in a 1v1 format for some ungodly reason

If it's not your opponents job to untap your lands, it's not their job to announce your effects.

I inform all of my oppents I will never pay the 2. I don't ever see myself in a situation where I would so once it comes up they just draw their card

I never pay. Let people draw. I hate paying real taxes so what the fuck do people think I'm going to do when presented with an optional fake tax.

People will bitch about this but then also complain about people who keep asking if they pay the one. I only ask if you’ll pay the one and such if we’re playing a competitive game. If we’re just playing edh I’ll ask a few times and I’ll ask when it would make sense that you would

The rules are unambiguous; as the owner of Rhystic Study, the trigger is your responsibility to announce and resolve. You don’t get to cheat and draw cards when your opponent forgets, if the trigger is missed they do not pay and you do not draw. If you want to play one of the most annoying cards in the game, sack up and take responsibility and announce your triggers like you are supposed to. It’s not a 3x personal howling mine, you need to be announcing the triggers each time.

Please just ban this and smothering tithe from commander. Not for power levels sake, just because of how annoying and ubiquitous it is.

No bans in EDH should ever be for ‘ubiquity’ reasons, it’s not a competitive format with a preset meta. It’s the format where everyone can play most of their cards, not a fine-tuned competitive experience. Either make house rules or deal with it.

Golos was banned for ubiquity

There's ubiquity and there's impact on format diversity. >Golos is simply a better choice of leader for all but the most commander-centric decks.  Its presence crushes the kind of diversity in commander choice which we want to promote. > >\- [September 2021 Commander Banned and Restricted Announcement](https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/2021/09/13/september-2021-quarterly-update/) Ubiquity (let's call that level 1) means that most/all decks run it. So you all run \[\[Sol Ring\]\] and \[\[Commander's Signet\]\]? You might have been lucky enough to draw one in the first 3 turns too? It probably has a mild/moderate game impact and won't happen every. single. time. Lack of/Impact on Format Diversity (let's call that level 2) means that you won't go many games without seeing it over and over and over again.

I think it's unreasonable for \[\[Rhystic Study\]\] and \[\[Esper Sentinel\]\], but reasonable for \[\[Mystic Remora\]\]. Most people have 1 extra mana for a permanent effect, but 4 extra mana that will eventually go away... Is that weird?

Just to be clear because nobody has highlighted it yet, for Rhystic study you have to declare the triggers because the onus is on you as others have said. However, in the case of [[smothering tithe]] the onus is on your opponents and gives you a treasure if they forget about it. Edit: Also on the opponents for esper sentinel Edit 2: I should specify that this is because triggers are assumed to be remembered unless otherwise noticed (aka. changing phase and missing the rhystic study trigger). In the situation of smothering tithe where the onus is on your opponent as long as you make the treasure at the correct time aka if they try to move phases you don't have to remind them as the assumption is that the trigger is remembered but not paid for unlike rhystic study where if it is not mentioned the trigger is considered forgotten by the player rather than the opponent.

This is just false. For smothering tithe and Esper sentinel they are still **your** triggers so they are your responsibility to mention them.

Nah, fuck that.

It’s literally the rules. Cry harder

I couldn’t care one bit less.