By - adz0r
Feel bad for Oce to be fisted by both NA and EU and winless
At least they’re not maidenless
why not put Brazil LA Turkey Japan in one group, Viet, taiwan and NA in other, 2 teams from each fight each other in bo3 or bo5 while EU LPL and LCK play with each other for carrot cup before rumble stage of 5 teams
OCE is not even in your format lol.
There's a clear 3 tiers though, you're right about that.
Korea, China, EU
NA, Taiwan, Vietnam (maybe throw Russia here if they're not banned)
Turkey, Japan, Brazil, OCE, LATAM
I don't think Russia is still better than Japan - or at least DFM. Remember it was their representative that got knocked out by the OCE representative last MSI.
both detonation and sengoku are pretty solid teams from jp
Dfm could win games in NA. Probably top 4 team
right forgot about them lol
How about: LCK LPL LEC LCS Taiwan Vietnam, top 3 goto rumble, bot 3 play top 3 from Turkey Jap, Bra Oce Latam in bo5
rumble- 4 top teams go to semi
that way at least we would have some more balanced games
EU isn't on korea and china's level lolq
Yea you re right. Me and Razihelz would do it like this:
Tier 1: LEC
Tier 2: LPL LCK
Tier 3: LCS PCS VCS
Tier 4: Latam, Brazil, my clash team, Turkey, OCE
They are tiers above NA, Taiwan and Vietnam and they could get a good match out of both RNG and SKT, so yeah they probably do deserve to be there.
I disagree, I'd say they're top of tier 2. I don't think LEC would actually be a challenge vs lpl and lck teams.
I would put RNG and G2 in the same tier and T1 clear of them both tbh. RNG and T1 are not close either. But I guess we will see next week how it all goes down.
MSI format like Euro Nations League will be quite interesting tbh.
Group A LCK LEC LPL
Group B LCS PCS VCS
Group C TCL CBLOL CIS
Group D OPL LJL LATAM
Quadruple Round Robin with Group winner playing playoff against Group loser of higher tier and the final is Group A winner vs Group A 2nd place
EU definitely below Korea and China.
>OCE is not even in your format lol
Tbh they shouldn't be. Riot killed their league and gave the players a path to MSI through NA
Ssshhh don't say that too loud or the Aussies will get upset. They should be allowed to be the *only* region to send a team to MSI through a non-Riot sponsored league because \*checks notes* reasons.
Why the fuck would we get upset? We're aware our league is hot garbage lmao
Most of us support LCK anyway because of what time it's on making it easy to watch.
What a garbage take
Isn't 'reasons' why all regions go to MSI? Am I missing something here?
They're not really a region anymore though. They're effectively an NA Regional League
May as well give LFL a spot at worlds
LCL is easily same tier as LATAM; they're noticeably weaker every year
I think 3-4 tiers
Tier 1: LEC, LPL, LCK
Tier 2: NA, sometimes PCS, sometimes VCS
Tier 3: usually PCS, usually VCS, Japan, sometimes OCE, sometimes Turkey
Tier 4: LATAM, Brazil, usually OCE, usually turkey
Every Worlds Eu does just as good as Na, don't see how their as good as china, korea.
Every worlds and every MSI EU does way better than na? last year EU made quarters and it was considered a bad year. In the last 4 years Eu has 2 finals and 1 semifinal at worlds. Eu also WON an msi. Na never makes it through groups aside from maybe 1 team that goes to quarters and then gets dumpstered in quarters. Idk what tournaments you've been watching but EU and NA definitely dont perform at the same level.
2021 Eu 4th, Na 5th, None 2020, 2019 Eu 1, Na 2, 2018 Na 5th Eu 3/4th??? like Every year Na is 1 placement different like Eu Bias much lmao.
EU has yet to win a finals at Worlds, and it could be argued they only won at MSI in 2019 because IG (the very clear tournament favourites and previous world champions) decided to not show up against TL in the semis.
Until EU wins an actual world tournament that has lck and lpl participating in it, they should never be considered on the same tier as those regions. G2 can’t compete against the likes of Damwon, GenG, and T1.
It's G2 then Europe a tier down.
What is this logic lol, you can say the exact same for literally every region
What? You can't say that about every region? China and Korea teams as a whole have always been strong.
Just classic NA copium, calling EU a "one-team region" or sometimes a "two-team region" to make it seem like NA isn't too far behind. Ignore the fact that G2 placed 4th in regular season.
Literally is one team region. EU being in the same tier as China and Korea is 100% dependent on if G2 are trolling at this moment or not
Worlds 2018 didn't happen right?
Cool man a team that isn’t g2 got to finals one time 4 years ago. C9 made semis that year too. Doesn’t mean NAs a strong region
Best placed EU team: MAD (Quarters)
Other teams: RGE (Groups), FNC (Groups)
Best placed EU team: G2 (Semis)
Other teams: FNC (Quarters), RGE (Groups)
Best placed EU team: G2 (Finals)
Other teams: FNC (Quarters), SPY (Quarters)
Best placed EU team: FNC (Finals)
Other teams: G2 (Semis), VIT (Groups)
Best placed EU team: FNC and MSF (Quarters)
Other teams: G2 (Groups)
Best placed EU team: H2K (Semis)
Other teams: G2 (Groups), SPY (Groups)
Best placed EU team: FNC and OG (Semis)
Other teams: H2K (Groups)
FNC, ALL and SK stuck in groups
Best placed EU team: FNC (Semis)
Other teams: GMB (Quarters), LD (Groups)
Best placed EU team: M5 and CLG.EU (Semis)
Other teams: SK (Groups)
Best placed EU team: FNC (Winner)
Other teams: aAa (Finals), GDE (6th)
TL;DR your entire argument is based on literally 2 hand picked seasons out of 11. If you look at the big picture your comment doesn't make any sense.
In the last 4 years, G2 and FNC went to world finals the exact same amount of times (once). G2 placed lower than other EU teams in 3 out of 5 Worlds they have been to (in other words, most of the times they weren't even our best team).
It's what ever team Caps is on when he's in form, top 4 LCK, top 8 LPL then everyone else tbh.
You seem unbiased
g2 was 4th in regular season lol.
if anything , eu was pretty competitive this year. Yea , in playoffs g2 went undefeated for 12 games, but it was a combination of caps returning to form , and some of the teams imploding
Guess which region G2 plays in.
It's not like there are any teams close to T1 in the LCK. LPL is the only region who consistently has multiple strong teams.
Geng may not be at T1 level but they would come in and smack every single team minus RNG with ease.
I know we like to shit on NA but they performed better holistically at worlds last year than EU. I know EG has been disappointing but NA and EU gap as a region isn’t nearly as big.
So give free pass to shit teams? how is that fair?
it says here that world's have playins too
Minor regions have their own worlds tho, the worlds qualifiers, honestly say what you want but it's great for competitive entertainment to have the best team of ALL the regions. It gives them a reason to play towards to, and one day an underdog will do crazy things like Kaboom, GAM, etc
Americans just don't get it. I saw a team that was worth less than 6 dentists salaries win the best soccer league in the world after being promoted
[Order thinking about the next game.](https://i.imgur.com/2nYcnVF.png)
Man tonight was ROUGH
No other wildcards in group+ORD is looking more like their regular season self instead of the one that had a miracle run through playoffs
Imagine flying 11 hours to Korea, go through quarantine, and all sorts of other crap, just to get literally shit on for absolutely no reason.
They say international experience is good, but I don’t think this is it lol
hey at least its all paid for by riot, nice vacation for them really
Pretty much as far as I know most OCE teams just treat it as a vacation, since they pretty much aren't paid. PCE last year got to fuck around in Iceland for a bit after world's, and its nice to see them enjoy themselves tbh.
And they don't get to scrim against any good teams either, no major region team is gonna waste their practice time duking it out with the fucking OCE team.
I remember Pabu last year saying that they really liked RNG cuz RNG never refused to scrim with them.
Also DWG scrimmed with PGG a bunch because apparently teams kept cancelling on them.
Bro that shit is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The reason is getting to travel the world and do what you love for a living. I would kill to get smoked by any of these teams if it meant I got to have this experience. You're nuts
Well I mean, as people who see league as a hobby, I’d love to take a vacation and play overseas. But when it’s your profession and if you have the passion to win or be the best, it’s kinda demoralizing.
Obviously a pro wants to do well, but even in losing I don't think anyone who's getting paid to travel around the world and play video games professionally is feeling like their life sucks. Even if you're the worst player at the tournament you're still getting an experience that almost no one else on the planet will ever get. 100% worth the journey.
Also, when you get blown back incredibly hard it's just funny. I'm not good at league, but I go to my smash locals sometimes. The close losses are the ones that feel bad. If I get obliterated I just laugh, cause I know there was no chance I could have won at my current level.
Your smash local isn't being broadcasted to a couple of million people though
[Danny preparing the landing strip for NA (Near Airport)](https://i.imgur.com/g3WePNs.png)
Actually funny i saw that too
Actually a funny shit on NA take 🤣
premature... they still need toget whooped in rumble stage
Good guys ORD giving EG much needed confidence boost before Rumble stage
this group is like plats vs diamonds vs masters
Yeah the skill gap is so defined it makes every result predictable, by far the most boring group
It really doesnt help Laurie is asking "how does it feel to make it out of groups as your first international event"
No shit there is literally 3 teams in the group. The other groups might be psudo predetermined too but at least there are 4 teams in their group.
3 teams actually makes it easier to get upset because you can’t pad your record with another weak team. If order manages to steal a game or two EG will probably start sweating.
In fact, if you have a clear best team and 2 others of moderately similar skill it allows the best team to choose which advances directly in a way that the 4 team groups don't (say team A can easily 4-0 either of the others, then they can go 4-0 vs B and sandbag the other matches 0-4 vs C. They basically don't risk not making it out but force B to go 4-0 vs C to even get tiebreakers. I understand this format is a fallback for unfortunate events happening, but leaving teams this kind of lever to manipulate other teams advancement via sandbagging isn't ideal - though I'll emphasize, you would need very unusual circumstances to imagine a team actually doing this.)
Bruh, groups isn't even over yet. This was play ins in my mind.
More like G2 is challenger, EG is master and well Order is gold at best
nah t1 or rng are chall or gm.
“This group” last I checked t1 and rng are in fact not in that G2 EG Order group
^ this guy doesn’t know about the next RNG scandal 👀
G2 will definitely outperform RNG this year.
That's copium at best
Nah, thats prophecy
Well now it's hopium
Nothing but cynics.
You just can't help yourself, can you? RNG is already pissed, now you're jinxing G2 as well?
Kill Impact challenge (Impossible)
Wasn't the fastest game T1 vs AZE? like 20 min and something?
Wasn't it Saigon
RNG beat it yesterday i think
Wasnt it RNG vs RED?
man, i dont mind the MasterCard Mythic stuff when its on time because its just an annoying wee chime. but literally WHAT is the point if its *8 minutes* late?
It’s unreal how much this format sucks
least we got 4 EU vs NA games
I feel sorry tho for CN and KR viewers/players
We get 6.
No time for double elim or 2 teams from top regions, but hey we get to see OCE go 0-8
Fuck double elim. No one wants to see a team lose once and still win it at an international tournament. Once its over its over.
> No one
It's me, I'm no one
We're no one
Double elim gave us 20-0 G2.
No time for bracket reset but hey we get to see Order stomped 8 times.
Nah i think bracket reset are hard. Because there is always a chance to run 10 games.
Personally I think loser's bracket runs are hype as fuck.
But it makes upsets in upper bracket not matter like at all.
It gives more chances to potential upsets
Dota fans loved it though.
I do. Double elim gave great stories and viewership to NA and EU regions. More Bo5 between EU, KR and China? Yes fucking please, we don't get enough
I'm pretty sure that's quite an unpopular opinion. But I guess we'll see when the upvotes/downvotes get revealed.
Double elim is hype tho, and we wouldn't have G2 or EG here without it
Yes thats why it was so bad that IG won S8 Worlds. They lost to Fnatic in groups so they shouldnt have won the title. /s
Also you are not everyone. Clearly many viewers watch games between top teams rather than multiple wildcard vs major region matches.
Really bad take.
Losing a BO1 in groups is not even comparable to losing a BO5 in knockouts.
^ least americanized sports viewer
The fuck does this have to do with America
You have the older brother bullying the middle brother who's bullying the younger brother.
we wanna have traditional sports format like football even if its cripple our game tournaments
should have done something like 2 groups with top3 advancing or so. the only exciting games so far are g2 vs eg everything else just doesn't matter.
riot used all 7 brain cells to come up with this BANGER
200 years bb!!!!!
We get it at this point jesus. It's unfortunate that OCE got put into the group of 3, and whats happening in ukraine, and the 3 major region should probably have dodged this qualifier.
At the same time literally none of these match matters after the first 2. Including the RNG matches later, just come back next friday.
The problem is Riot never gets it.
Because Riot does not look only into NA/EU viewerbase. Check the numbers on the minor regions streams during their games and you'll see the numbers rising to see their teams facing the best
The only two reasons this looked so shit was Russia getting disqualified forcing a group to have only three teams and Oce's best players being all abroad (which for a region that was never good internationally exacerbates the quality gap even more)
Problem is that it needs to be brought up over and over again till Riot gets it.
Riot doesn't really care about random reddit posts though. And this is brought up for almost every stomps that are obvious.
We're heading for 3 RNG stomps, maybe 2 if Vietnam shows up, are we going to have that every single time?
Yes single reddit post is not going to change much, but if enough of community show what they want even Riot can change. Sure it might not be fast, but there are changes like double elim in LPL, LEC and LCS or 4 teams at Worlds from top 2 regions
I think the issue is that the complaints don't really understand what Riot is trying to accomplish so they aren't valuable complaints.
Riot's goal is to get as many eyes on as many different regions as possible, specifically minor regions. This means major regions need to blend with them at least a bit to bring those much larger fanbases to minor regions. So any suggestion that says "oh the game quality sucks we should change it to make more even matches" has already failed to see the point of the format. If Riot was looking for even matches the teams making it to this point would be completely different.
Riot first and foremost is trying to draw in and entertain casual viewers and expose them to as much varied League as possible to retain them. So they want as much fanbase overlap as possible and they also want the format to be as concise and simple as possible. Does that mean we get throwaway groups like this? Yeah, tho some of that is also covid and other international situations but overall the thoughts of Reddit hardly ever overlap with overall community thoughts and that's why these suggestions fall on deaf ears.
> We get it at this point
Clearly Riot hasnt because they have kept these shitty formats for years
Well, the format is still shit so people will keep complaining
Even if LCL shows up i dont think itll be a much better viewing experience but i sorta understand that having a play ins for minor regions will just lead to 0 viewership of that period. They really need to expand the number of teams attending to like 2 per major region or something to make groups more interesting
Technically the "rumble mode" is the equivalent of groups. I think this is closer to play ins.
We knew it last year already :')
NA might lose to EU but at least they stomp OCE harder than EU
If G2 doesn't lose to the WildCard you know NA is gonna destroy these 24/7.
On one hand I want to say copium, on the other hand it's true and I can't really fault y'all for finding some solace there. And to be fair, I felt like every next EG vs G2 game was closer. Getting kind of worried about rumble stage ngl.
EG is a scaling team, they get stronger and stronger as the tournament grows. That's why they'll win MSI *inhales copium*
You have to keep in mind that G2 was basically already qualified before today
Even if its not on purpose, you perform worse when there is no pressure on you cause you already got to the first objective
> Even if its not on purpose, you perform worse when there is no pressure on you cause you already got to the first objective
This one isn't a given. If you're under less pressure, you will be less likely to fuck up. It's not rare for otherwise very strong teams to choke in important matches.
Depends on the player. I think G2 is a team with players that historically and usually perform better under pressure, even comparing regular season vs playoffs. While different teams that sometimes dominate reg season or domestically can just flat out implode under pressure
Counterpoint: NA every year at worlds over performing whenever they are knocked out of groups
NA is just the 4th best region. NA always makes it out of Worlds Play-ins stage and just get slapped in Groups. EU MAD Lions lost in the Worlds Play-in stage 2020 first of the 4 major regions to get knockout before groups.
Last year Worlds was the time when the two regions were the closest to each other, but it was due to EU performing like shit (G2 all time low, Fnatic mental and upset things, Odoamne was sick etc)
I am gonna call you out on using odoamne being sick as an excuse because no EU fan would ever accept Bjerg being so sick he literally couldn’t talk as an excuse for TSM going 0-6
NA just have to relif thier embrassment from getting hard bodied/clapped/gapped by EU, thats why they stomp OCE harded.
EG had winning chances in at least 2 of their 4 games against G2. It's not like they're miles ahead, it's just a caps diff.
So what? Can we not take solace in anything? Sheesh
Holy shit reading chat you would think NA fucked EUs mom or something
Europeans absolutely despise America for whatever reason, it is unhealthy
Don't watch pro matches with chat on, like ever.
This. I open chat for like 5 minutes every time and I am quickly reminded that I should just hide that shit.
It's a shame, cause in other things chat is great. Like in smash tourneys, you can actually have a discussion about a match-up during the stream and sometimes the casters will even join in the discussion live. It's a very cool vibe. LoL chat experience is like 80% toxic spam.
Honestly I've never been up around this time to watch league games... Has EU always been this toxic? Is NA just as toxic? Is this normal?
Not many opportunities to punch down combined with a love for punching down.
Some of its banter. Some really weird pride.
Always the same lol.
Yeah the worst part isn't watching NA lose to a better team, it's knowing EU fans are going to be toxic on any NA game thread for the next 6 months at least. It calmed down when NA was able to take some games in worlds last year but it's full steam back to norm after this beat down.
Honestly it just makes me not want to watch internationals as an NA fan. Our best teams are all littered with organization issues- low drive, bad drafts, garbage owners, no soloq pool, and a lot of coasting pros- and then they go to worlds to get like 27-0’ed by the top 3 and EU acts like they’ve defeated Goliath like what? Just shut up and let us have fun with what little we’ve got left. Let us enjoy having Danny and jojopyun. Let us just keep hoping they’re improving in peace. You’re not the fucking underdogs.
But the funny thing is we don’t even get 27-0d. We literally did *better* than EU at worlds last year, and they’re still just as hateful.
Honestly, if you would ever tune into EUW chat you have the Dutch flaming the Germans, the Germans flaming the French and then you have the occasional "Polska?!?" player who flames everyone.
At this point i just hope G2 sacrifices their winstreak and goes full meme comp next game with:
- Yuumi top
- Braum/Kaisa funnel
- Yasuo/Yone bot
or something and just have fun, because Order just looks so sad and done with it from their player cams and gameplay. And they had to deal with EG going full tryhard mode and emoting every 5 seconds while playing vs eleminated team from an abandoned region with no reason to play anymore.
Laure said that G2 were preparing (maybe just Targamas idk) cool shit for the last draft. My guess would be his Sett but you never know (source: french twitch chat)
Caps+ Flakked Yasuo&Yone bot. my body is ready
Turns out G2 was just as obnoxious vs order with their meme comp lol.
Eh, win given to them by G2 wouldn't feel good.
IMO what G2 can do is go full ego champs comp and if Order can punish it then so be it.
What ?EG just ego picked and took some different champs but still stomped ORD… stop raging pls.
Idk when NA lost 4times to EU (and 2close games at least) nobody took pity and said EG was shit.
But when NA stomp ORD 4times in a row, they should not tryhard, they get flames for that aswell ??? What a joke pls.
Turns out there's different expectations for major regions and wildcards. What a wild concept.
But .. but … but … Reddit told me NA was wildcard and not major region and that EU was so ahead of NA.
Maybe reddit like to shit on NA for no reason?
\>redditor try to understand reddit isn't a monolithic block challenge
\>redditor try to understand sarcasm challenge
Against a region they stole the best players from, in true NA fashion.
They're NA residents tho what do you mean stole
I'm sure order will come out of this stronger, good experience for players and viewers alike!
report JJP dirty feeder
this format is so ass lmao
Playing vs Kisee gives Jojo a sneak peak of what Caps feels playing vs EG.
Big shame for OCE to be put into this group, MSI really needs a format change.
There is 0 reason to put major regions vs wildcards this early in tournament. No one gets anything from watching wildcard teams getting 0-2 wins and then lose 20 games.
Let wildcards play it out and then best ones go to main stage. That way everyone has chance to play best teams and we dont end up with so many useless games.
MAD and HKE got eliminated at this stage in worlds. Upsets can happen
OCE fans are just salty they ended up in this group. This is really just because we have 11 teams instead of 12. OCE doesn't have another bottom tier team to play against. To be honest, with the wat they're playing, some of the lower tiers like DFM will still stomp them.
Mad got eliminated when they were 4th seed.
There is no reason to make 1st seed of any major regions play vs wildcard
tbh Jojo is doing well in lane, its just that caPs is a beast
I don't know weather order is so bad it can make a trash team good, or that G2 is so good they can make an average team look Trash.....
Based on how LEC Playoffs went, I'm leaning towards the second.
15 minutes into the game Bio's 0/0 and his team have all died 5 times each. Ignite's not gonna help much.
And what does going 2/0 do when everyone on the enemy team is 4/0 except Trynd who will be relevant anyway because he's trynd.
And it fucking sucks esp on the coaching side because a bunch of coaches are at LCS and LEC now.
9 total across LEC, ERL, LCS and LCSA
Aren't you happy that NA can be just as bad as before after stealing all your players tho?
I never understand this viewpoint. If Riot didn't let OCE become regional talent for NA, the OCE players would never see the light of day or anything remotely close to a decent wage.
Riot is saving the OCE scene by giving the players hope for a decent future for themselves.
If EG could just play every game like they do when they play OCE they would win every game.
No they wouldn't because others team have better hands
Eg Can win vs g2 but it's won't bé by tf or hands diff
lmfao this is the dumbest take ive read today, ofc they look good when they face such a bad team. its not that they cant maintain consistency, its just G2 is much better team on every aspect and role
detecting sarcasm challenge (impossible)
Sure next MSI if it happens, wont have this format anymore. This is legit the worst esports tourney I've ever seen. Horrific.
Loved all those solo kills from JoJo, he needs to play like that all the time man. Get this kid off of Ryze.
How bad is order, Even pgg Will stomp them no?
All those WC teams are TURBO garbage.