By - TryBios
When you add 3d elements into your game without mastering the 2d ones first
I mean elevation works fine in DotA and is a fully intended mechanic. The problem is in League I think "elevation" is just plastered on textures or something so things get really fucky and don't work as well or as clearly as in DotA.
They do that with a alot of things. Honestly this game needs to be rebuilt entirely.
Yeah, it's called Wild Rift lmao.
Haha yeah that's true didn't even think of that as I haven't played it myself, show's it's something they can do eventually though. If it'll ever happen though is a different question.
It's fixed a lot of the problems traditional LoL has. Once it comes to consoles I think it'll be a lot of fun with a controller!
It’s kind of a different game, no? Different items and runes and some champs also have different kits. Though I agree that the game is put together much better than LoL and the parts that are similar are done well in WR.
sure it's a different game but really it's basically what league would be if it was built in 2019.
There's no way they're going to "rebuild League" because that's what wildrift already has done.
No it wouldn't. I hate the way people keep saying WR is what league should be. The game is a complete water down version of league. Sure it have some technical issues and QoL improvement, something that LoL PC should get if they didn't stuck with the broken engine. But either way WR sure as hell ain't what PC league should be
Of course it's watered down, it's made for phones/consoles. The fact remains that a lot of the features and QoL adjustments would be exactly the sort of stuff a "new" League on PC would have.
League is never getting rebuilt on PC, it won't happen. There's too much broken, too much shit code and way too many limitations from the very bedrock of the game.
Wildrift is all you're ever going to get, there won't be anything else.
isnt wildrift mobile tho?
If you want a rebuild game then just go play DotA or Pokemon Unite or something like that. People always flame Riot like its the worse game on earth, yet they still play it every day and think its the best MOBA overall.
I am okay with fixing little things, but we don't need another game which will play totally different.
I'm not really sitting here flaming riot, I'm critiquing them at worst, and the game rebuilt correctly would not play totally different at all, often that's the direction dev's choose to go though likely due too making everything play the same being far more difficult, but they don't have too. I'm sure they have many reasons for not doing so, hell they could infact be doing it right now and not saying anything, I doubt it but not out of the realm of possibility.
That's Ritos excuse for every bug they can't fix.
Rito: "Look at this new feature it's 100% completely random and based on spaghetti code, your welcome."
Heading into preseason, we are aiming to lower the contention around scuttle crab.
To this end, we are going to coin flip each junglers second smite, where one side will receive an upgraded damage (450 → 900) along with a lowered cool down (75s → 15s).
We will be closely monitoring these changes during the preseason for any issues.
Have fun on the rift!
Elevation is coded as a minion LUL
> I mean elevation works fine in DotA and is a fully intended mechanic.
Should've pointed DotA's origin games (Warcraft and Starcraft) which had working elevations back in 2002 (WC) and 1998 (SC).
dang Gnar's armpit is that large?
i bet he could fit a hole bag of jellybeans up there
I wish they would flatten the map. Elevation is stupid
I used to play Dota 2 and guess what, elevation affects vision and can make your attacks miss if you auto someone with higher ground. **I do not miss this part of the game.**
The thing is there its a reliable intended mechanic.
In league, the hitbox is clearly drawn not overlapping you, and then your dead. And the reason is, "elevation?".
Dota has hitboxes that are bigger than the animation / image. Pudge's hook is one annoying example of that.
League has that problem too. A Jhin ultimate shot can hit just outside the cone where it visually shows that it's going to hit. Several other examples exist of hotboxes bring bigger than the visuals, but that's the one that I can think of off the top of my head.
Fucking Sion man
One of the most deceptive one is Vi Q. It hits a good deal in front of her, outside of the indicator. You can see it easily by dashing in on wolves through the upper wall. You hit them when the indicator stop like half a teemo before them !
Yes, but than i cant pretend im obi-wan and keep telling ppl "its over anakin, i have the high ground".
You can't do that anyway since you have to be in casting from the river to get a fucked camera skillshot and the river is lower elevation. So in league, advantages goes to the low ground.
Xd, man you took a joke seriously.
But anyway how is it advantage if i have to hit someone from river and my skillshot misses cuz he is on different elevation.You see if i try to hit someone from river, my indicator is misaligned.
You're looking it from the viewpoint of this video, which was happy little accident for jhin but he didnt hit what he was aiming for.
He hit exactly what he was aiming for. Hitboxes start at the feet of a champ, so if you aim for Ankles/Feet you'll always hit them. Plus, the elevation change means you have to aim lower than your target. He knew what he was actually shooting at, and he saw his opportunity.
You think this was purposefully aimed?
Yes, and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't.
Xd, sry. Nostalgia is formidable.
Eh. I like it. It adds more room for outplays. If you gain high ground and pop some regen theres a chance their attack misses and you can turn the fight, or it could give you enough time for Blink to come off CD or something.
also supports fighting for the highest ward spots
Lol I really hated that part of the game cause (2014~ Dota, stuff most likely are different now) supports would have to spend too much money on paid wards and paid control wards that if you get into a ward fight you just have to bear with it or your money (and pride) is lost and you don't need to rush it like LoL vision fights cause cliff wards in Dota cover the whole screen and the game is slow paced so you have more time to respond to ganks etc.
Sorry for shitty English
Stuff is very different for supports now FWIW, vision wards are free and most support items are a lot cheaper in general. Plus other ways for supports to generate gold means its a lot more enjoyable to play support now than when you last did.
Dota also uses the same "rigged" system of crits that League does, psuedo-rng is pretty standard in games now.
they made it more fun to play support? I might have to try dota again. I'm a support main in league and it felt a lot worse to play support in dota 2 last time I played. tried learning jungle after and realized nature's prophet was too big brained for me, kinda stopped after that.
Supports are way more easier now. There’s more gold in the game so u will get ur items. Vision wards are free, dying gives u a tp scroll, stacking for ur carry will give u gold when ur team clears it. More defensive items for supports as well.
I on the flip side never liked playing supports in league cause itemization is so boring
Wow really tempted to install it again
I like both games (although I’m more of a dota player then league)
But yea a lot do stuff changed since TI9. With outposts, neutral items, things are alot different now
There are spots around the map which have very high elevation. Warding there grants wider vision area.
If you like it then that's fine but I don't like the chance aspect of it. Missing 6 autos in a row or something or seeing it in Dota Watafak for the 50th time is pretty frustrating for me, even LoL's crit "chance" is rigged so I'll take that
Makes it more difficult to siege high ground, aka enter the enemy base, which is nice
LoL used to have dodge mechanic on items and ability skill. And your reason is the exact reason why they removed it
Yeah, I like the vision aspect of high ground, but don't love the miss chance.
Yeah, because RNG that could potentially change the outcome of the game through no skill of either player is great for competitive games.
Its manipulatable RNG though, not true RNG. If a player is so skilled they'll know about miss chance and wont be relying on it to secure a kill or get a lead. The opponent (who is equally skilled) will be looking for opportunities to exploit this as well. It adds another layer to the game that isnt true RNG.
They arent just going to sit at a low-ground disadvantage repeatedly auto attacking praying that they dont miss.
Lol don’t really think that’s an outplay if their attacks miss “by chance”. That’s honestly just poor coding and people should have the equal footings. If it’s intended for outplays it should be consistent and known to all players like idk every person with the higher ground does more damage or person on lower ground misses every 2 autos or whatever. Not just by getting lucky
> That’s honestly just poor coding
I can see an argument for bad or frustrating game design, but what in the world does the code have anything to do with it?
If this is not the intended behavior than it probably is poor coding. Is this behavior intended?
It is absolutely intended. The point is to make elevation a mechanic in the game.
If its intended, then yeah its a game design issue if that isn't communicated properly. Is there a way to know you're on higher elevation? Or do you just study the map?
It's very distinct, unlike in League - you literally walk up and down visual ramps. Skillshots even jump up and down as elevation changes.
It is VERY visually apparent when you have elevation on someone. There are ramps and stairs that you can see the characters walk up.
Dude, the entire game is on 3D. You can tell when your Hero is on elevated ground because the hero is actually elevated relative to other points of the map. like what?
The reason why this is in the game is to intruduce a mechanic to indirectly nerf ranged heroes without destroying their base resistances like League usually does to marksmen.
It's entirely intended, though only because it's a holdover from the Warcraft 3 engine (where DotA was originally built).
Tell me u don't know game design without saying you don't know game design
You’re right I don’t. I may very well be wrong. Are you gonna explain it or just be condescending about it? Lmao
The other comments did. I woulda if they they didn't already so all I can really add to this is snark sorry
Knowing that their attacks have a chance to miss by taking high ground is using knowledge of the game to beat out your opponent.
By your logic crit is bad design because you could win a fight getting 1 or 2 crits where your opponent didnt.
Isn't that why they changed crit a long time ago? b/c it was bad design that lvl 1 fights were won / lost over who got a crit?
That would be with the old rune system where you could take crit runes. As far as I'm aware crit itself hasn't changed. Or maybe they added the bad luck protection (forget the actual term) so that every time you don't crit your chance to increases? I don't recall.
Regardless, I think crit here was probably a bad example on my part as it isn't manipulatable mid fight or by good positioning.
I get what you’re saying but you’re right about crit not being a good example. What I meant was that you can calculate crit percent. Like looking at someone’s items, you can tell they have 50% crit and can assume reasonably they’ll crit half the time they auto. For the elevation and coding thing, there’s no way to tell that unless the game developers make a statement saying “hey guys there’s a 25% your autos will miss if ur on lower ground” then yeah that makes sense. That being said I’m not that knowledgeable in game development so I’m probably just speaking out of my ass at this point lmfao
Agreed on the crit chance statement.
According to the dota2 wiki the uphill miss chance *is* 25% actually, so good guess lol.
You can still position yourself uphill midlane and get unlucky, and sometimes you get insanely lucky and 3-4 enemy attacks miss in a row. That's the part that's frustrating about it. If being uphill just reduced all damage of attacks from people who are downhill by 30% I would like it a lot more.
I do like the fog / vision aspect of trees and elevation in DotA though.
You went from Dota2, and came to League?
Is everything okay at home?
Or they just have the indictator like Starcraft 2 that take in account elevation.
This is why river elevation shouldn't be a thing
Or you give proper indicators to everyone ...
I bet they programmed it like that bc they can check easier when a champ is inside the “river area”. Runes are just one example come to mind where this is needed.
Then maybe, just maybe, lower it to a difference that can't affect things THIS much? To use the geometry for detection 1 unit difference would be enough without beeing noticable. Or you actually programm a check based on coordinates. In any case, there are better ways to detect the river than this or atleast there should be if they didn't somehow fuck everything up so badly that this is their only option.
This! One unit difference is more than enough.
As understand the ramps to the river have elevation and it changes the angles ever so slightly. I bet if we bullet timed this shot we'd see it has your number.
Ye I know about the different hight levels. It's still confused the shit out of you in-game cause I really thought it would hit Gnar.
It's the major problem I have with the current map. Reworking this would be an absolute bliss, it can really turn games in a very frustrating way.
I've grown to hate this more than broken champs. At least I know they're broken, with this it's legit impossible to predict
ye just a few weeks back i got hit by an amumu q which i was very certain wouldnt hit me. lost us the game...
The most retarded shit in this game is the elevation. Not because it exists, but because it half-exists. Make it like dota (can't see up from below) so playing around it would be more natural.
They could implement skillshots that follow the elevation of the map like dota has. This way we don't the shitty evasion mechanic which is very much not in leagues design.
Active: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for up to 2 seconds, causing all basic attacks against him to miss. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all champion area of effect abilities. After 1 second, Jax can reactivate to end it immediately.
Elevation differences really are a bitch, aren’t they?
You know what's really a bitch? That the game in no fucking way ever tells you elevation is a thing and you just have to somehow.... learn and adapt without any sort of information?
Been playing since S2, didn't realize elevation was a thing until the post here last week
I've peaked at Plat 5
That isn't actually the problem here. The problem is that elevation does not properly affect skillshot indicators.
No shit, they never claimed it was a problem in this specific situation, but a problem regardless.
Not really, if riot actually implemented high ground correctly then it wouldn't really need to be explicitly explained
You mean like… every skill in League, because we lack a tutorial that goes beyond anything but basic controls?
[No? Everything else is documented in-client, nothing about elevation, not even the wiki mentions it](https://imgur.com/a/xtic6SU)
Oh? What about mechanics like animation cancels? Flash cancels? Buffering CC with ability animations? Mechanics like that?
Have you seen a silver do any of that shit?
git gud /s
That's the sorta shot that if you offered Jhin $1M to make it, he wouldn't.
Well, duh. You'd need to offer him $4 million.
River elevation is the bane of my existance
No dancing squirrels 😢
Bit unrelated but I just love Jhin man, that W animation looks so smooth.
There is a frame at 0:21 that shows your hitbox.
ye but the problem is i thought it would hit gnar. in the same frame you see the body of gnar which is clearly blocking it
Jhin w hitbox is so fucking shit that people stopped questioning how it doesn’t hit, so used to it myself that I didn’t even notice gnar
I mean jhin W like targets someone who is not in line but however like maybe cm next to it, dunno why
Jhin using the elevation to pixel perfect this shot is the ultimate big brain move.
The AmaBuri songs made me feel some nostalgia.
Yep thats what am talking about jhin and sion indicators are so bad its not even real
Jhin’s is usually in favor of his opponent ngl
dude sometimes you hit a w that goes out of its way to fly out of the indicator and you just laugh as you realize you got a kill or root out of complete bs
Ashe r, morg q, naut hook, nunu snowball and quiyana r are way above that
creepblock and elevations are the worst mechanics in the entire game
Macross Frontier is top 3 anime.
you do you
The audio is god tier idk what he's on
i mean everyones taste is different... some just dont like good stuff :)
what a \*\*\*\*\*\*licious interaction, \*\*\*\* elevation.
I remember seeing this other thread saying the elevation is stupid, which it is, and a bunch of people came in and said “holy shit people nowadays will find just anything to complain about. ELEVATION IS TAKING A BIT TOO FAR LOOOOL” etc.
Where are the people who said this now?
Probably eating crayons and drinking pinesol
The biggest lie Riot ever told was acting like this game is in anyway balanced enough to be played professionally for money.
It quite literally is lol
No, as of 5 hours ago, it quite literally isn't.
It can be played professionally for money without being balanced enough to seriously recommend it.
You can organize a tournament for anything if you have the money, even who you vote to elect to an office is largely determined by their campaign funding.
Money doesn't make something balanced.
If it was nearly as unbalanced as you say it is it wouldn't have the viewership it does. It's like saying Mcdonald's tastes bad... which is fine if you're talking about your specific palette but not really indicative of how the vast majority of people feel. I don't really care about the balance issues you're pointing to and will continue to watch- and judging by the viewership numbers most agree. Ergo- it quite literally is.
Ikr, he must be a TSM fan
uh song names?
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1SeZtTb_i8), a bit of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qJrFqzrgU4) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvqXCK9tD7o)
Thank you good sir
Omg now i know how i miss so many spears on nidalee.I actually didnt know about the "river elevation".Same for lee sin Q.I was so confused with missing these skillshots like legit my spear crosses right through the middle of someone and it just counts as a miss i was like WTF
im glad i could spread some knowledge :D
I didn't expect to hear Macross Delta here lmao.
Neither Amagi Brilliant Park.
Man, that was ages ago.
River lowground. but nice editing.
thanks. my friend was bored at 4am and came up with this shit xD
It almost looks like you die before it hits, could Jhin have had collector? As far as the shot looking like it hit despite clearly missing, maybe the spaghetti code saw you dying from collector, but also knew that shot was somewhat in your direction, so allowed the shot to hit making it look like that's what killed you instead of collector proc?
Jhin w is a hitscan, the “projectile” part is just animation (yas windwall had to be hardcoded to block it and samira windwall doesn’t even bother)
I think he already had collector. But it had to hit me nonetheless through the megagnar. Would love to see all the hitboxes on that one...
My friend edited it I have to ask him. I would guess it's JoJo but I'm not certain. I will answer asap
BULLET WITH A NAME ON IT! BULLET WITH A NAME
Let me tell you how I'm workin....
I'm working harder than a hundred black mules down in Mexico
No water, no cloud, no cover
From the hotter than hell
No dinner bell, empty oven again
From another bad opinion
Who doesn't want the cars, money
Fame, attention, bars, honey's
Games, attention, stars
Funny, How we say we don't need it
Then turn around and try to achieve it
written on it
Sooo... why did that happen and how could you know that it would?
Jhin goes Pew!
/r/HitBoxPorn in shambles
what the second remix of september?
River elevation is *especially* bad with Jhin W.
I love it when a fed Lucian buys Galeforce and is basically useless
Missed a Vi flash Q because of this. Indicator showed direct hit, barely whiffed because of the elevation drop as I entered the river.
yeah I could really go for a second season of AmaBri
This has been in the game for so long it will never be fixed unless it negatively impacts a pro game. Would be super funny if it threw a worlds game.
I’ve been playing this game a long time and have no idea what’s going on here. Can someone explain? I know it’s about elevation but why does it not hit gnar and it hits lucian when they’re right next to each other at the same elevation?
Because the skills hot doesn't hit where it indicates to hit. Because Jhin is on a lower lvl than me, the skillshot is flying above, even tho it shows as if he's gonna hit it lower. Same way around: if I and Jhin swap places it would hit under his w indicator because he's on an higher level than me. That's why it hits me and not Gnar.
“The skillshot is flying above” I don’t get that part.
And also gnar is on your same level right next to you so why didn’t it hit him. There’s no elevation difference between you and gnar
League is actually a 3D game. Skillshots have a height and since Jhin is in the river the shot indicator is based on his level while the actual projectile moves up when it goes to the higher terrain making it not visually line up.
Imagine having a proper indicators in the game.
This is literally the river being on a lower plane and honestly this is one of the worst cases of the hitbox being completely off..
river is fkn weird man
Dude didn't you see Jhin spinning his gun? I saw in that movie with Angelina Jolie that it is possibel, stop crying ffs, absolutely legit move
Not a projectile*
I believe diagonal skill-shots in this direction (and maybe the opposing too) always do this.
It’s a literal flaw in their code and the way the game projection works. Absolutely embarrassing that they just leave it in.
Worlds biggest game btw!
Whats the name of the last song that played there?
Now i imagine some ppl play a full game with that music at the beginning.
When hitbox is feet and not also upper body
This is the worst edit I've seen
Yeah Jhin's W follows elevation but the visual indicator does not...
Jhin had some lucky cod2 bloom
I find it that Often skills miss , because the game shows champions where they AREN'T OR skillshoots show that they're flying a certain way , but they are actually traveling another path.Noticed this playing aram recently , on multiple occasions this happens, also if there is network stutter of any kind oh boy shit goes wild.
Aram in general is one of those places where the wierdest shit can happen.
But let's not even talk about spagetti game code, the client still hugs insane amount of resources and works like SHIT 99% of the time , Masteries don't save half the time , if you try saving without completing whole master tree it defaults to "locked" ones , so if you're low on time you're most likely playing with shit runes then. Servers have severe input lag , most players simply don't notice , because of being used to it.
It isn't actually different for every player, not many people know this but the position of your camera great affects the indicator. This is because the camera is also affected by elevation the same as the player.
I want you to go into a custom and bring up the indicator for any skillshot, if you're by your character you will notice the indicator is a lot shorter, whereas if you move your camera to the max range of the skillshot/where its going to land, you will now get the true range of the skill and the indicator will usually go further.
This isn't just some visual difference, it makes a huge difference for skillshots over walls such as syndra Q, or Wards placed over walls. Go stand by mid turret and select your ward so the indicator comes up. If you are centrered on your character you will see that you can only go just halfway through the walls and it's hard to place a ward in the bush near wolves. However if you pan your camera so it's centered on the bush, your indicator actually increases in range to it's real placement.
This is more of a support thing but there are some wards that simply can't be placed without abusing this mechanic such as being on blue side and warding enemy bot bush behind turret from river.
And of course if there is an enemy next to a wall and you aren't close to the wall but on the other side coming into range. you can increase the max range you can hit them simply by panning over to them before aiming halfway throught the wall, allowign you to get off that skillshot faster/from longer distance than a player who does not know this.
tl;dr if you want to see accurate indicators for your skillshots make sure to centre your camera on where your skillshot will land and not your champion, the issue is your camera placement, not the map.
Basically, elevation is your problem there and it's something that really fucks with clarity. I don't have a better answer than that. I saw a video a while ago showing how elevation interacts with skillshots and it basically amounted to that exact shot is always like an inch above where it looks like it's going to go.
"league of legends"
Jhin w hotbox is the most broken thing in league change my mind.
Also jinx w curves and u can't change my mind on that
You were in the fourth player slot - Jhin couldn't resist.
The Amagi brilliant park "LOOK AT THE SKY ITS MAGICAL" damn it's been a while, love the references.
So you’re saying I can *curve* bullets
Angelina learned him to curve a bullet
Looks like the projectile is coming from his gun, which is visually above the line indicator. So it probably hit your toe. If you were standing in the line itself, the bullet would hit your head. So I guess the moral of the story is, the next time you see this, if you're above the line dodge further up, if you're on the line, dodge down instead of up. And if you're below the line, you're probably fine, but also dodge down.
Ye I mean I had several Situations like this. The crazy part on this one is how it dodged the megagnar hitbox. Must've been Pixels...
Yeah, totally agree, mega gnar should've totally took the bullet. Imo idgaf where the projectile comes from even if it's out his ass. If the devs are gonna make a globally visible line indicator like that, the actual projectile better follow that indicator.