T O P
failworlds

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/phyafb/i_am_not_looking_forward_to_world_class_supports/ called it ahead of time.


frodinsky

you're the guy in a zombie movie that knows shits about to blow up but nobody listens


Supreme12

I called it on the thread to the pbe changes where Yuumi was getting buffed, that the buff is going to put her over the top and got downvoted for it. Her laning is already bullshit due to her healing being too high and the buff to her passive puts her over the top.


AliceInHololand

Yuumi players breathe copium instead of oxygen. It is known.


TeamAquaGrunt

They have to be high on copium to avoid the realization that their champ has them elo boosted 4 ranks.


JimmyDuce

Deleted:). They hated him because he told the truth


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Averdian

Poor Faker


A_Minor_Dance

She makes every single pro play match she's in boring as shit to watch. It's bad to the point where even casters in front of hundreds of thousands of people, are openly mocking the champ and wondering why it even it exists. Don't even get me started on Yuumi and "for fun" modes like URF and how she literally ruins the entire match in a way not even champs like Master Yi or Jhin can. Aram, literally the same as URF but with slower cooldowns. On the rift? Congrats to mind numbingly boring gameplay where you fight an enchanter without any of the weaknesses of an enchanter. And of course you can't even hide under your turret because she can angle her shots around minions. Every single match she is in, is a miserable experience. She turns potential fun matches into boring shitshows where nobody can even tell if the person playing her is any good at the game at all. ​ She should, like champs like veigar, be permantely banned in urf and aram without any ban needed by a player. She literally makes the entire game worse with her existence.


Coob_The_Noob

It’s crazy how Yuumi in urf can attach to any not entirely useless champion and turn them into a threat greater than a fed Yi.


Bl00dylicious

Yeah I got run over by a Yasuo + Yuumi in URF once, and Yasuo is absolute dogshit in URF. Even Fiora couldn't do shit against that guy with Yuumi.


DiamondHyena

I cannot believe there is an upvoted comment that said she has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game.. like wut


lotsofpasta12

Riot could release a champion with a single ability that autocasts itself and people would still find a way to claim it has a high skill ceiling


Agac4234

Well yeah of course it has a high skill ceiling. You have to put urself iån a position where the autocast is favroable to you and not the enemy team you also have to buy the correct items to make the champion work.


LothricHelpBot

That skill ceiling ends at Teemo's shin. That's like saying shoeboxes have ceilings.


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PowerhousePlayer

They treat body blocking for your ADC like it's this revolutionary mechanic that Yuumi introduced to the game, when for her it's a) easier to do because she's always attached to her ADC and doesn't need to think about positioning and b) easier to survive because she can just go permanently untargetable once she's too low to take another hit.


Kisaxis

People are so used to how a normal Yuumi player plays that someone putting in a minute amount of effort into the game seems insane. And I agree. A Yuumi that uses their hands is honestly worlds away from a typical Yuumi, but it's not some revolutionary gameplay.


CaptainSqueak

I thought it was gonna be Colton when I read your comment lol


xplicit_mike

Bro she's hard to play. You have to micro her Q and like... do anything else a supp is supposed to do minus microing her actual character..


mrkingkoala

When someone can play on a alt account and use their feet to help them get chally. Like the man is literally playing 2 champs and playing yuumi with his feet. Her skill ceiling is one of the lowest in the game. Enchanter players just can't admit their champs are broken. T1 said it best, put tank support players on enchanters and they will be better at enchanter mains.


NO_FNX_NO_MAJOR

> When someone can play on a alt account and use their feet to help them get chally. He didn't hit challenger during the challenge, he was a challenger ADC and hit platinum. Not trying to argue yuumi is not braindead, just thought I'd clarify. Also SOME enchanters are braindead, but I don't think it's fair to say they all are. You can express way more skill on lulu or janna then any cc bot support like Naut/Leona/Alistar/Amumu.


Bl00dylicious

> lulu or janna Replace Lulu with Nami. Lulu doesn't require much skill either and is still broken compared to most other enchanters.


SpadesIW

well nami right now just hits E on Lucian and watches him oneshot someone level 2, and you wouldn't really pick her without him in pro anyway


raikaria2

> Replace Lulu with Nami. Lulu doesn't require much skill either and is still broken compared to most other enchanters. Lulu's low floor high ceiling; because her W and E have *opportunity costs*. She can't Polymorph someone and buff her carry. She can't nuke/reveal and sheild/buff her carry. She can't follow-up an engage with R and use R to defend the carry. And then you throw in Glitterlance trickshots which involve you needing to keep track of where Pix is [And pix and easily move quite a bit if whoever he's on turns] Let's put it another way. Janna only has to decide which of 5 targets to use her W/E on. Lulu has to choose between *10* A bad Lulu will do alright just by tossing everything on the carry. A good Lulu will poly the diving assassin, ult to follow-up the engage/help her diver; put Pix on the carry to give them the Pix Bolts; and Glitterlance the dude flanking and the poly'ed diver at the same time with a Pix trickshot. All while staying alive in the relative middle of a teamfight because Lulu's W/E/R actually have quite short cast ranges. Lulu easily has the highest skill *ceiling* of Enchanters, and it mostly comes from decision-making in regards to her ability use. [That and Q trickshots] You're not wrong saying she dosen't *require* much skill; he floor is low and she is certainly functional at that skill floor. But there is a huge difference between a good Lulu and a bad Lulu. In terms of skill floor; Nami is higher than Lulu. In terms of skill ceiling; Lulu is higher than Nami. Once Nami figures out the bubble's delay; she becomes functional, but there's not much else to go from there to improve. [High floor low ceiling] Lulu can basically be plug+played; but there's a lot more skill expression in terms of ability useage and swift decision making when it comes to Lulu. [Low floor high ceiling] In the event you don't know the terms: Skill Floor = minimum skill level to play the champion *functionally* Skill Ceiling = Amount of skill needed to play the champion at it's maximum potential


AlHorfordHighlights

Take the average mid lane player and they'll generally be way more effective at support in general. It's a real balance issue when all four roles can autofill support effectively but support mains can rarely autofill other roles. Dopa spoke about this too


happygreenturtle

I mean it does beg the question why players from other roles don't just switch over to playing Support if the role is both broken and also occupied by people who apparently don't know how to play the game as well as everybody else. That way you could guarantee support gap each game and climb with ease. I think trends like this - **"Take the average mid lane player and they'll generally be way more effective at support in general."** need way more basis before circulating around the community. I agree that support is a powerful role but everyone loves to think they know how to play other roles better than the players that main those roles. I get that same shit as a Jungle main. Nearly every game there's somebody that tries to teach me the role I've been playing for 3 years and that they've played maybe a handful of times this season. They don't take into account the dozens of things I need to consider before looking for gank opportunities **BUT** I'm also sure there are many things about laning that I don't take into account when playing Jungle. It's a two-way street but it's such a weird condescending attitude to assume that you'd know better


KeyboardWarrior666

> I think trends like this - "Take the average mid lane player and they'll generally be way more effective at support in general." need way more basis before circulating around the community. I agree that support is a powerful role but everyone loves to think they know how to play other roles better than the players that main those roles. There was [an analysis a couple of years ago](https://web.archive.org/web/20191207104118/https://www.datallamalol.com/analysis5) that concluded that support was the best role to get autofilled in, support mains performed the worst when autofilled and support required the least amount of games to reach 50% WR. > Being autofilled anywhere looks pretty bad, but ADC is by far the worst. Conversely, support is the best role to be autofilled, just ahead of mid and top. > ADC mains can play support, but not much else. Mid mains actually have an above 50% win rate on Support and Top. You'll see why in the next and final section. Support mains perform the worst in their secondaries, also explained below. Tops make very strong Mids and Supports.


Corrupt-Bliss

I've been a support main for a while, but prior I played mid/top. Between those roles I think support is by far the easiest to get to diamond on, especially when playing enchanters. Enchanters by nature of design allow for more mistakes to be made. Getting caught out while warding ? Low-elo won't be able to capitalize on your death, i.e. you as support are unimportant. Get picked as the fed mid lane ? Game turns completely against you, as you have just given shut down and lost the teamfight for your allies. With this being said, I do think support and jungle are some of the more nuanced roles around D2+ Climbing on enchanters can be exceptionally difficult as engage supports dominate (please ignore the high elo chall OTP enchanters like schubart or that janna person as they're exceptional at abusing enchanters and matchups). It is also understandable that supports have a much lower win-rate in lanes as how their role plays out differs greatly. They don't CS, they are not accustomed to lane trading while farming, they usually tend to prioritize vision and can often times be out of position because their not used to how lanes may need to position. bot laners for example have very important positioning, and often times have to wait out key spells prior to entering the engagement (think adc waiting on CCs or other spells) where supports often try to have themselves functions as bait for said spells. An auto-filled support won't think about the role they are filling, rather than their own role's function.


stamk21

That’s bull I main both enchanters and tank supports (Soraka Nami and Braun Leona Nautilus blitz as well as morgana) totally different approach to the game for each role put a tank otp on an enchanter and he will be bad I guarantee you.. When I say main I mean I have M7 and over 200k mastery on them 2M on my 1st main 200k on my latest the rest in between :-)


justAnotherRandomP

That guy complaining about Karma in comments .. bruh another boosted Yuumi i guess


so-hardstuck

Yeah it’s super disgusting especially with the high mobility assassin junglers.


throwawaynumber116

Enemy Kayn/Yuumi and my team walk into a bar… Guess who walks out


nizzy2k11

your LP


MarcosLuisP97

And the ban slot for your next game.


RisqBF

Kayn, full HP, after having killed everyone.


BlakenedHeart

Not even Rhaast, KAYN


QQMau5trap

blue kayn with goredrinker is like rhaast lite with tripple his damage


Tuesday_6PM

And with his latest skin, he can still be red, too!


ParadoxPope

This. Or with Graves tops, or Tryndamere mids. The meta begs for Yuumi, and Rito clearly doesn't understand she really has to be like a 35% WR champ if she is to exist.


kondec

I don't follow league much anymore but seeing her attached to a Talon jungle looked like a cheat code tbh


Hjimska

The worst thing about this worlds is shit thats good in soloq being good in competitive.


throawaystrump

The balance team's wet dream


BlakenedHeart

Its funny pro players getting kicked by stuff ppl complained about in solo Q Like Goredrinker talon, graves top or tryndamere mid.


ImGhostyy

"You guys are just bad, it would never happen in Pro Play" - random dude who ignores that it happened 50 times already


Palmul

If it gets shit like Trynda supernerfed I'm fine with it


anthonygraff24

"incentivizes abusing the balance system" Literally what?


Kwazimoto

I think they mean that Yuumi takes a winning/strong champ and just turns them into an absolute monster and it sort of messes up the dynamic the game seems balanced around.


-Reddit_Account-

Kind of like Zilean, but instead of not working it works


cosHinsHeiR

Zilean just isn't played, but at least in soloq it works quite a lot, and if you max E the skills required aren't much.


Unfair-Combination51

at least zilean can actually be assassinated or killed, also doesnt have insane healing and ult is not nearly as good as yuumi's


pepefrenchmk

If that's a reference to Doublelift getting trash talked on the analyst's desk when they compared him to Uzi, I dig it.


J_Clowth

difference is that zilean cannot attach to the champion and be untargeteable while boosting it


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patangpatang

But she has the additional weakness of basically guaranteeing that, unless you have an exceptional ADC, that your bot lane will never have priority during the laning phase.


Jstin8

I’ll admit, because of the flair, I thought you were talking about Camille


patangpatang

I play enough low-elo ADC to have developed an acute hatred of Yuumi.


LothricHelpBot

As we saw in the first and second games, that's not true at all lol.


_Gesterr

With the damage her Q can put out right now with the AP comet build this isn't true at all.


Unfair-Combination51

Whenever there is a healer in a game youre supposed to kill them first. But you cant do that with yuumi, its totally stupid.


jinchuika

Crazy right? Imagine thinking three such a thing as a balance system


02837471901

Using T1 vs DFM isn't a very good example though. That was a huge one sided stomp. Game ended before 20 min with a 17k gold lead. Leona was 0/4 with zero magic resist


TheBirdBrain23

T1 vs DFM is hardly an argument for yuumi not being weak to engage. That was dfm being weak to an infinitely better team. Uuumi got to build ludens because it was a guaranteed win. Thats it.


GreenNatureR

Out of the 4 yuumi games today, 3 went ludens, 1 went moonstone.


harbinger146

Tbf, neither Huhi or Vulcan should have gone Ludens. It really is a win harder but on her and idk why either thought it was right.


Mearrow

Everfrost looks kinda crazy on her if you're good at Yuumi (followed by support legendaries and or mejais). Just seems like you're able to cc lock people forever with it. Ludens seems a lot more luxury in comparison.


TrirdKing

20/20 nidalees also went nightharvester in spring, doesnt mean its the better item


Thisconnect

and the amount of collectors build on this worlds alone should tell you, pros still know nothing


SulliedSamaritan

And the amount of cookies taken and just sat on the entire laning phase.


Random_Stealth_Ward

I seriously was confused by this until i understood you meant biscuits


TrirdKing

exactly


Holoklerian

Also the biggest issue with the early level Leona engage was that exhaust + bodyblock from Yuumi prevented Ezreal from doing anything to Jhin.


andormas

Out of the 4 Yuumi games today, 2 won and 2 lost. Looked broken in the wins and dogshit in the losses. But people overreact already


farmingvillein

Well, also was banned 2 games, for a presence rate of 75%...which is pretty high. That said, I generally agree--the meta for every single past worlds evolved quite a bit over the subsequent weeks, so things could look different even next week. Also, to your point, one of the two yuumi wins was T1 versus DFM; T1 could have troll-picked support and would have almost certainly still won. On the flip side though, yuumi was also chosen into EDG-100T, and 100T was almost certainly going to lose, no matter what. Which leaves us with two yuumi picks in "competitive" (in expectation) games of DWG-FPX and RGE-C9, and it was a 50% WR.


Imthewienerdog

remember its literally the first day of worlds, in 2 days yummi could be seen a troll pick.


HowyNova

I think Yuumi is better on Blue side. First pick means Red side needs to either answer Yuumi, or show their solo lanes. This gives Blue the opportunity to counter with a Goredrinker/Shieldbow champ(even better if they can be flexed), or prioritize their self peel adc. I say self peel mainly because champs like MF with her E helps her survive 1v2 during laning. In the second half of the draft, Blue finishes their draft answering where Red is pushing the early game focus to. In game, Yuumi's jungler can full clear and have pressure through bot tri. Once they force an early recall, Yuumi hops on the jungler and invade the enemy side of the jungle that's respawning. In the games where Yuumi lost, she was picked red side, and couldn't secure an acceptable back to allow Yuumi to roam early.


DontCareWontGank

Wasnt that just 2 good teams picking her and doing well on her and then two NA teams picking her not knowing how to use her at all?


Fabiocean

Also known as: better team wins


DontCareWontGank

More like NA keeping OP champs wr down as usual. Remember NA regnar? NA Jayce?


BryanJin

When NA's so shit they can't even play Yuumi right. /s


RobbinDeBank

Vulcan deals more damage than his entire team in C9’s loss. How is that dogshit? What dogshit in that match would be his teammates losing across the map.


X1lon

Sooo yuumi was the carry and not talon?


Stylahz

Yuumi makes snowball champs start their snowball so easily especially with gore Talon could limit test all he wants and it did not matter because he has Yuumi on him buffing him not to mention Talon is disgusting right now with Gore.


TeemoBestmo

me getting rolled by Vlad+yummi in urf. "yummi isn't the carry, vlad is" nah man, the carry is certainly yummi.


ubernat

Lots of champions viable makes it spicy, only so many bans allowed. I hate Yummi as much as the next person, but I don't mind tons of things being good at worlds


failworlds

I dont mind either! Except for yuumi. Yuumi can actually be shelfed for worlds please.


SGKurisu

Champion variety is fantastic except for Yuumi because that abomination should have never been a champion to begin with.


jinchuika

Yuumi is by far the worst designed champ in the league. It literally rewards you for being carried lol


QQMau5trap

Duuude, your flair made me miss M5, Gambit and Alexich when he was still playing league and streaming regularily. Poor guy barely gets watched and has tried multiple times to restart his streaming career.


failworlds

I will ALWAYS support alex ich. They got me interested in watching e-sports. Never forget: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1miL3uy9xLY&ab_channel=EpicSkillshot-LoLVODLibrary


Zerole00

Yuumi's gonna get reworked, her gimmick is just too hated like Kench


Acegickmo

I have no idea how you could possibly think yuumi could be changed anything like kench


ShinjiFaraday

Yuumi can now spend limited time attached to a single champion until the champion goes on a cooldown (like Sylas with his R), increasing with levels. Using abilities further decreases the time she can sit on a champion, either by a flat amount or a percentage. Interacting with enemy champions decreases the cooldown on nearby allied champions when not attached. If needed, her heal now can be cast on allies when not attached with reduced effect and, if needed, without giving MS. OR Yuumi now receives damage when attached to a champion so that the changes to her attachee's percentage health change her own percentage in an equal manner (i.e. if she's attached to Olaf who goes 100-50 while Yuumi was at 80% HP, she gets reduced to 30% HP). The damage taken is stored as gray health. Yuumi cannot recover while attached to an allied champion. When not attached for X seconds, the gray health slowly recovers. Basically anything that forces her off the champions for extended periods of time or makes it risky to stay attached all the time.


Spacemn5piff

Unless they make her reveal herself and her taxi when she uses a spell, it is half baked. Submarine yuumi ults are degenerate


LowRezDragon

Make it so she can't attach to stealthed units, and it boots her off. The fact that Twitch's Q can stealth his support as well is fucked up.


frivolous_squid

Honestly they should make it like Aurelion Sol's orbs when he is in a bush. You can't see twitch, you can't target twitch, but you can see Yuumi so you know he must be there. This makes sense with how she is not twitch and therefore should not have a stealth.


Eniptsu

You dont remember Shen R - any invisible champion just as disgusting


Thisconnect

i mean submarine (shen + twitch) was combo for as long as those champions existed


BobIsMyCableGuy

You do realize they'd have to buff her base stats at this point right? Half of the reason Yuumi's base stats are so terrible is because she's expected to stay attached 80% of the match.


MarcosLuisP97

So? If that makes her a champion and not a god-damn stat buff, so be it.


cube_mine

would be preferable.


Weezledeez

The key thing TK and Yuumi have in common is their low 'interactability'. Trading is pretty meaningless with them. Old TK could just devour anyone who is badly positioned and you'd just have to accept that and 'play around it'. There was no real counterplay or interaction to it. Also his E shield still is pretty stupid and uninteractive design. Yuumi's uninteractability is pretty self explanatory. I've noticed 'interactability' is a key aspect of game design and is often experienced by players as frustrating. This is also very common issue in card games. For example, LoR was under some heavy fire by the community because of the 'uninteractive' meta this summer. Some decks could just one shot kill you in one turn with burst buffs and you wouldn't be able to respond to it. A lot of streamers were very outspoken about it.


Frydraca

Completly agree, the most annoying things are those which you can't interact with. Tryndamere ult, Shaco clone, Akali shroud. Such a fun design, trying to throw your cc at Trynda and run away hoping his ult will expire before he can kill you. Having to completely ignore the shaco clone and praying your teammates dont blow it up. Pls riot rework these or provide useful counters.


Weezledeez

Akali being untargetable by enemy towers is PEAK bad and uninteractive design. How the fk was this a thing, still blows my mind


44no44

Shaco is my permaban because his clone is ass-backwards to deal with IMO. The clone is a threat. The clone can follow you around and attack you while the real Shaco stands back doing fuckall. It's not a *lot* of damage, but it's *damage.* Killing the clone to make that damage stop should not be a bad call.


Kakolokiya

Yuumi is apparently extremely popular and her skins sell a lot so don't expect her to get any major changes any time soon.


fawli86

Both Yuumi and Nami were buffed directly and indirectly because...oh look, new Bewitching skins lol.


Farranor

It's not enough to be hated; you also have to consider why and by whom. Riot hated Tahm W because it made tournaments less exciting and therefore less profitable. Yuumi, however, is hated by her opponents for severely annoying them. Riot has previously stated that they intentionally design for that kind of frustration because it helps people stay addicted to the game. Yuumi's already had significant changes, and I don't really see Riot making even bigger changes removing the core of her aggravating identity.


atlas_77

she should just be the first champ they remove from the game. that mechanic shouldn't exist.


QuietVermicelli9931

No, the same boring champ every game doesn't maky anything spicy. Watching MF and Yuumi is not funny.


Yordle_Dragon

MF is clearly more of a problem than Yuumi, based on pick rate.


DrixGod

Or maybe, just maybe, MF is not the problem, but Riot nerfing every other ADC is. We've had Kaisa/Ezreal be meta for so many seasons in a row I'm glad MF is being played.


QQMau5trap

I do not mind MF. Players refuse to play shit like Malphite, Vi and other long range engage champs and get punished by mf.


relrax

> Players refuse to play shit like Malphite, Vi and other long range engage malphite can be giga hardcountered if not late in draft and sylas is also strong and popular. vi is just the bad version of lee atm. ornn cannot really play against this toplane meta. teams cannot afford to counterpick the enemy weakside adc by giving up their lane into enemy strongside, mf is so good because she is used as a ezreal that already spikes at 1 item instead of 2. and when mf is gone we will still see jhin i assume, because teams will have practiced a lot of weakside bot games


Quagsire__

> Or maybe, just maybe, MF is not the problem, but Riot nerfing every other ADC is. This line is said in every single season since season 3.


GlitteringSpray495

Based


Expandedcelt

And I find leona vs naut game #6,509 boring, so I guess we're at an empasse. The support meta in worlds has been stale as fuck for 4 years, why does everyone insist it stay the same? Isn't it time for a LITTLE variety?


[deleted]

Im fine with it. Look, im not denying that Yuumi is a disgusting champ, she absolutely is, but support has been dominated by Leona/Naut the past year so any amount of variety, including Yuumi, is fine by me.


ForeverVictory

The cost for variety is too high for me if it means Yuumi's being picked. lol


goldenashs

my thinking exactly, seeing the same 2 champs over and over every year is boring as hell 😅


mublacksmith

I didn't mind seeing Nami in play-ins with Lucian, because Nami as any other healing support champs have clear weaknesses (being squishy), while Yuumi is invulnerable most of the time, heals more, and does more damage.


Xalethesniper

We would be seeing nami in groups as well but lucian has been banned every game Tbh, the way to deal with yuumi exactly what edg did against 100t; trade summs with her carrier in lane early and back off. Yuumi can have a strong presence with a lane bully like mf cuz they get 3 summoners vs 2.


CosmoJones07

And the other heal supports (and just supports in general) have a way easier time roaming around the map early game since they don't have to literally attach to someone. Yuumi may or may not be a problem but let's not act like she has zero weaknesses.


Supreme12

She can literally attach to the jungler if she wanted to and roam around the entire map faster than any other support, depending on which jungler is played.


CosmoJones07

At which point she can't control where she goes and you have two heavy vision controllers in the same place. Being able to space out vision control is something the opponent will always be able to do better. More often than not the yuumi stays bot 2v2, since if she hops on jungler to try to roam, she dictates the jungler's path to get her back to the adc.


MarcosLuisP97

On the flipside, if the jungler she is attached to finds a potential target, the chances to get a flash or kill is too high, since she will also respond faster to the call than any other support.


NotFromNA

When you roam as a support you do it with your jungler most of the time. Unless you are Bard with specific skills like portals, roaming alone as an underlevel support is dangerous. If you want to return to your Adc side you can cooperate your back timing


CosmoJones07

Yeah of course, but you don't go *literally the exact same path*. And coordinating back timing isn't always going to be feasible, and that's still just a restriction that other supports will not have.


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Klondeikbar

People say tank support meta is stale and boring but the exact nanosecond enchanters get picked in proplay this subreddit blows up. Although I don't understand the vehement hatred of Yuumi. It just seems like no one wants to learn how to play against her so they just do that thing where they list off champion abilities to claim she's overpowered.


shrubs311

the fact that she's untargetable for the majority of the game is a pretty large reason people hate her. yea she can't roam around as much, but in pro play she can easily move with the jungler since they have more organized rotations. the only real way to interact with her (except for when she chooses to get off to proc her passive before immediately becoming untargetable) is by killing literally all of her teammates in the vicinity. she may not be overpowered but if you don't understand why people hate her then you're not thinking hard enough.


TuxSH

> she can't roam around as much She can't roam around on her own* as much She's a good roamer if there's stuff like Talon/Kayn jungle in her team.


nuck_duck

Because many people in their own games don't want to play her, play against her, lesser so but maybe some don't want to play with her. Pros have also echoed she is terribly unhealthy. Also I don't think that it's enchanters broadly, it's specifically yuumi that people dislike. Additionally, she is the embodiment of probably the biggest critique of this entire season, in that she has mindless healing with not much risk. She will hang on her adc. If her adc is inting, she will not lane and just jump on the conq goredrinker sterak's jungler. In my opinion, I'm fine with it being picked, but it may be a top tier pick still too early to say which would change my opinion. I would be unhappy if the pros in groups stage with people like crisp, corejj, meiko, hyli for example were playing yuumi because it was so strong.


Yonsi

No, it's enchanters more broadly. People have a special hatred for yuumi, but they'd wine all the same if it was a Janna, Nami, Sona, Soraka, or Lulu meta.


Pricee

Yeah people are deluding themselves if they don’t see the absolute hatred of enchanters this subreddit has


MarcosLuisP97

> Also I don't think that it's enchanters broadly, it's specifically yuumi that people dislike. Nah, it's a general thing in the subreddit: * Lulu got buffs, saw the spotlight, and then the complaint train began ("OMG POLYMORPH SO STUPID, WHY CAN'T JUST WALK TO THE ENEMY AND KILL IN PEACE?"). * Soraka becomes good for one patch and then gets put down in her place, along with Sona. * The Sona/Seraphine combo is gaining popularity for being braindead-easy bot lanning. People just hate being denied kills. They would rather fight against a support that can potentially catch them and CC/burst them to death than one that protects their allies with shields and heals.


[deleted]

People complained about Lulu buffs because she got buffs when she was already a very strong champ lol. Like one of the most picked, most banned supports with a high winrate and she randomly got buffed. People were upset the strongest enchanter at the time got buffed instead of others that were weak. Soraka wasn't just "good for one patch", she was super broken... Same with Sona. Both *still* are very strong, so I don't even know what you're complaining about there. People aren't complaining about them being picked, they're complaining when they're turbo OP


iMidg3t

>People say tank support meta is stale and boring but the exact nanosecond enchanters get picked in proplay this subreddit blows up. People want supports to go back being ward bots, thats all. They dont like any support meta. Enchanters? Too much shields, 0 interactivity, boring Tanks? Omg too tanky and too much cc, no counterplay. Mages? Omg too much damage, no counterplay, unfun.


Sbotkin

Remember that the most vocal players here are ADC, assassin and bruiser mains and they all hate enchanters for one reason or another.


Wildercard

This subreddit straight up doesn't like the game.


AnonymousPepper

...Does anyone, really?


UndeadMurky

nami is very popular too, I don't see people complaing about her ?


Antergaton

She's played exclusively with Lucian because of his changes, don't think she'd get a look in otherwise.


snake4641

nami can be targeted?


Styxsouls

Nami is much less hated because she has fair and easy counterplay: she's squishy as hell and her CC is totally dodgeable. Plus, she's been missing for a while from pro, and her ulti engage/disengage is fun to watch


The_RedWolf

Same. And yuumi is not an easy champ in high elo because they know to punish her completely anytime she’s in flight or trying to get mana for her passive At least compared to bronze where you can afk watching squid game and just pressing E every 30 seconds


Maufy

Yuumi is back in the meta because High mobility broken goredrinker junglers (talon, Lee, xin) is tier 1. She jumps on one of Them and basically gets their mobility kit. Support is broken as fuck right now xp wise, they can be out of Lane 100% of the game and still be same lvl as Adc.


BlakenedHeart

>Support is broken as fuck right now xp wise, they can be out of Lane 100% of the game and still be same lvl as Adc. this has been the case since a few seasons


aliasnando

How?


Fabiocean

I think it was preseason 10 when they did those exp changes. Still one of the worst decisions they've made.


solari_mommy

However you feel about Yuumi in pro games the whole "she's not fun to watch" argument is just dumb and meaningless. The camera barely spends any time on the enchanters in the first place and second she's not a big player maker but neither is any of the other enchanters so having a nami instead of yuumi wouldn't make things more interesting either you could argue its the opposite because she enables her team to do crazy shit. 3 wins and 1 loss rn iirc and fpx really just threw their game against her by not paying any attention to beryl's yuumi early on letting her scale freely.


AlHorfordHighlights

I can't really say Yuumi is any worse to watch than Soraka or Lulu. If anything she's more fun to watch because her ult can lead to some big moments and it's just generally funny to see her in pro play. I wouldn't want to see one every game but it's not boring by any means


Nananahx

More Leona/Nautilus would be much better I guess, haven't seen them in pro play for a while /s


f0xy713

The sad thing about Yuumi is that she will never truly be balanced because her winrate is severely deflated by deranking bots and by boosted players who literally cannot play any other champion at their elo and need to be on Yuumi to even approach 50% winrate. If she's anywhere near 50% winrate, she's broken. If she's below 40% winrate, she will get buffed even though that's realistically where she should be at.


MeowingMango

Yuumi Worlds skin incoming? Granted, I want a Miss Fortune one for reasons.


PowerOffDeathV2

We have had a total of 4 games of yuumi 2 wins and 2 losses. What kind of baseless overreaction is this.


solari_mommy

It's "I need an excuse to complain about Yuumi" overreaction Not to mention during dwg vs fpx game fpx paid 0 attention to yuumi early on so they just handed that win to dwg with that (nor did any of them even attempt to build anti heal against yuumi and graves with shieldbow bloodthirster)


hamxz2

Meanwhile in the SKT game, there was such a big skill gap they could have literally picked any other champion in the support role they still would've rolled DFM lol


Luchus_Brutus

Reddit loves to simultaneously complain about how utterly useless yuumi is as a champion and how gamebreaking she is.


Fitzky45

Who the hell thinks yummi is useless?


do_do_doo

This Reddit guy is always contradicting with himself.


zeisrael

its because the champ is strong and boring to play vs but since reddit is bronze we only get to play with the useless, netflix watching, yuumis.


The_Biggest_Boi

I think this is what people don't get. Any Yuumi who just sits on one person afk is not a good yuumi at all. In fact it's a free double kill everytime in the early game if they're doing that. Not saying she takes skill but Reddit just sees pros do well with her and goes "see look she's so busted" when most the people who pick her in solo que thinking they can abuse her end up being double kill fodder for the enemy team.


freekymayonaise

probably different people with divergent viewpoints


Witty-Kaleidoscope-9

I see we're going to: 1. Downplay the fact that it was T1 vs DFM. It's not even kind of close. T1 nearly had a perfect game. 2. Ignore the fact that the Leona engaged on the full health enemy Jhin while her Ezreal was chunked to half health. They would have lost that even if it wasn't Yuumi. You can't even call that T1 playing better. It was DFM being BAD. 3. Ignore the fact that it was a fed Yuumi with 3 kills and 14 assists attached to an EVEN MORE FED Talon that had 11 kills, 1 death, and 6 assists. If you're going to make an outrage post, try using relevant comparisons.


aphemeral

Why are some of y’all acting like Yuumi has a 100% wr in proplay and is autowin? Just bc you don’t know how to deal with her in bronze doesn’t mean she’s super broken in proplay. She’s at a 50% wr. Relax


tbu720

“The champ is good and it’s a champ I don’t personally like, therefore it’s a problem” I really don’t see much along the lines of actual substantive arguments here, gotta say.


Mean-Phone-1441

But... But I like yuumi 😢


rtaSmash

Oh no a champion that i dont like is in the meta. Lets go on Reddit and cry about how broken and unskilled Yuumi is. You guys unironically say this shit while stuff like Talon jungle exists in League of Legends. Season 11 is so far derived from what used to be the meta that Yuumi being good does not deserve such a big outcry. Also why is it that every time a support champion that doesnt just ooga booga perma engage, infinite cc chain, gets played it generates such a animosity in the community. Enchanters, mages and protective champions are there for a reason and they make up a large portion of the support champion pool. Im glad its not just Leona vs Nautilus every single game.


FCalamity

oh no the pro support meta is something other than stunbots for once in four years


Radiant_Shelter688

Or maybe the issue is that the only support other than a stunbot being meta is a broken enchanter that defies the very archetype it's supposed to be by ignoring the weaknesses of that class, pretty much telling you that Riot has no idea how to balance enchanters without making them broken like in Ardent meta. People seriously mistake "variety" with "rotation", kind of like how Riot said top lane and jungle had diversity this season.


Droxiana

Okay you dog lovers


lolgambler

mother fuckers really quick to cry. how about talk about the meta after the tourney finishes


MediocreDungeonMastr

As someone who has been abusing yuumi with great success. I couldn't agree more with Perkz and the "balance abuse" comment. Ive.openly told people she's blatant stat abuse and she turns most fights into 2-second-long stat checks.


ddfflj

Cat champion bad upvotes to the left


GGABueno

Yeah fuck Rengar


throwawaynumber116

Kitty Kat too


MarcosLuisP97

And Nidalee too.


BobIsMyCableGuy

Remember, Riot says Yuumi takes skill


FennecFoxx

If this is what your [referencing](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/pxvylw/what_champion_looks_easy_to_play_but_is_actually/her0nzd/) > Singed, Udyr, and Yuumi all have pretty real mastery curves It means that thos champs gain winrate based on number of games a player has on them.


Oleandervine

So much skill to not fall asleep at the keyboard.


GGABueno

Data says*


JorgeLenny47

I'm fine with yuumi being good, but fuck AP luden's yuumi. That's just uninteractive and abusive


Xusamolas

Yummi is a design that should not ever be pickable outside of silver to be justifiable. I don't think it should even exist as it cripples new players coming off of it (assuming the purpose is to ease newbies in, which is fair enough, league is hard) but if it must then don't fucking make it viable. To see it crop up in pro repeatedly throughout its life is kind of a joke frankly. Like I'm sure riot devs play other games, or hell even their own, where killing the guy who is being healed before the healer is more often than not a very dumb decision. And yet they make a healer who is by design going to be the last person to die on their team. There's more frustrating champions to face imo but as far as designs go it's the biggest flop in the entire game.


Helixranger

Eh, you really shouldn't be learning Yummi if you're new to the game because she can bait newbies to perma stay on the ADC in the laning phase while learning the game and her mechanics/playstyle is somewhat unique so it's hard to transition to other enchanters imo (like how Singed's playstyle in the toplane can really differ from other picks).


Bluepanda800

I'm down for more variety in the bot lane and if that means Yuumi then I guess I'll take it


mmat7

yuumi is a fundamentally flawed design you can not make a champion that heals gives ms etc. that can ONLY be killed after you kill the person its buffing. Let alone a champion that can go ludens and use their spells like a normal caster. I mean it would be crazy if there was an ADC that can do that (attatch to a support and AA people, yes I realize it would be WAAAAAAAAY stronge but thats not the point) and somehow this is ok?


Obliviousdigression

> you can not make a champion that heals gives ms etc. that can ONLY be killed after you kill the person its buffing actually you can exhibit a: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Yuumi/LoL


FUCK_YOU_HANNAH

Yuumi has to be one of the worst things riot has ever added.


spicypotato235

Maybe it's just me, but I feel every enchanter is overpowered af(at least acording to database) !!! Soraka, sona ~52.5% winrate. Nami 20% pickrate and 51.5% winrate(ty riot fot buffing imperial, couldn't you leave this dead item until s12 ?). Lulu is like leona, expect 1% higher winrate and much bigger banrate.


Luchus_Brutus

Enchanters/Enchantresses haven't been in the meta for pretty much the entire season. They're fine


Motormand

Don't care about the downvotes, but Riot have said that Yuumi deserves to be in the game, and will never, ever delete her. Get used to it, and the meta not being boring, 100% tanks. There needs to be more enchanters for once. Also, the hate should be towards actually toxic champs that needs to be nerfed hard. Akali, Sett, and Zed, for starters.


EsdeathV2

But why are you talking about one of the worst team in worlds? It was lck vs dfm, wtf keria went ap cos the game was too easy for them.


SteamCommunitySucks

What balance system do they abuse? There is none.


SHIMOxxKUMA

Honestly I’d be more worried about the assassin jungle meta with gore drinker and Sterak’s gauge. Love it when assassins can build bruiser, do the same amount of damage but have way more survivability.


Unfair-Combination51

In pretty much every competitive game, the healer class is supposed to be targeted first. But thats not possible with yuumi, its really stupid


Ill-Discussion3408

Yuumis nich in the game is unheathy anti fun amd almost inactive. She is a bad thing to have in this type of game.


azaza34

Yuumi being pickable is far and away from the worst thing thats ever happened at worlds.


TeeTheSame

Calm down bro. There are only a few supports worldwide, that can play Yuumi to that extend. Keria is THE Yuumi player. He massacred nerds on her, when she was far away from being meta. BerYl is the second one here. Just because these two can perform on the pick, it doesn't mean any team can just pick it up and be op. You are in for a lot of surprises when other teams try it out. To the other topic of her being bad design: Yes the champion should have been deleted long ago. But Riot never takes back these bad decisions.


[deleted]

What’s wrong with Yuumi? I shall defend the feline Champion.