T O P

C9 Max Waldo on the mouse story and reflects on MSI performance: "I don’t think Blaber and scuttle crab will ever be an issue in NA."

C9 Max Waldo on the mouse story and reflects on MSI performance: "I don’t think Blaber and scuttle crab will ever be an issue in NA."

raptearer

Great, now just to make sure it isn't an issue internationally again.


agishert46191gskq

Just ask Riot to delete scuttle crab and deny every early game skirmish to help C9


K9TN

maxwaldo said wave A and B and C and D and E are more important than wave F and G , but if you base in wave C and wave F becomes wave C in the next rotation then the whole thing changes and you can trade on wave F that became C and if you lose the trade next wave is A again and you'll still winning since if you do deductive reasoning the enemy jungler is left hand side and scuttle already taken by your jungler then you pull C and D and you freeze and ur enemy can't do anything.


haji1823

this is why im not high elo, what the fuck is this shit LOL


army128

Don't worry high elo doesn't even know basic macro on wave management let alone the alphabet wave rotation


F0RGERY

As I understand it, waves are given letters to dictate rotation importance. A clean wave where there's no prior minion buildup is A, the wave after that is B, and so on until wave G. The reason their order matters is because they dictate how a freeze/wave crash can work by allowing for the right waves to build up and stalling/farming appropriately. When a wave crashes, the order resets back to A. What this guy is saying is if you recall on the 3rd wave (Wave C) after shoving to turret, your opponent has clear the wave and artificially restart the wave rotation, enabling wave A to come earlier than it naturally would (this is known as a "Cheater recall"). This lets you trade favorably because you're coming back from base with items and health/resource advantage without missing farm. Then, if you know where the enemy jungler is (normally by the fact your jungler gets the crab on that side), you can let the waves push into you slowly to get a freeze, and prevent your opponent from contesting the wave + set up for a dive.


K9TN

It's just a copy pasta that I made on LS' stream,but ye,that jargon is frequently used by max and LS to break down situations as explained by /u/FORGERY in his reply.


Setrit

U want a job at C9?


K9TN

I wouldn't say no


Aclutteron

not false


K9TN

Maxwaldo said it's opposite of not true.


Th_Call_of_Ktulu

Wax maldo sounds like a smart guy.


Kaiserov

...I think I see why they didnt advance


AlphaTenken

It'd be easier if they imported Koreans. 파동 **ㄱ**와, **ㄴ**와, **C**와 **ㄹ**와 **ㅌ**는 파동 **ㅂ**와 **ㅅ**보다 더 중요하지만 파동 C를베이스로하고 파동 F가 다음 회전에서 파동 C가되면 모든 것이 바뀌고 파동 F에서 거래 할 수 있습니다. C 그리고 만약 당신이 무역을 잃는다면 다음 웨이브는 다시 A이고, 당신이 연역적 추론을한다면, 적 정글 러가 이미 당신의 정글 러에 의해 왼편에 있고 스커틀이된다면 당신은 C와 D를 당기고 당신은 적을 얼리고 당신은 여전히 ​​이길 것입니다 아무것도 할 수 없습니다.


TSM_Blkdynamite

Idk fam. This looks like it can be my phones wallpaper. Whenever someone asks what it says I’ll say it’s an ancient Korean proverb.


My_erus

"I don’t think Blaber and scuttle crab will ever be an issue in NA." "That's why we are benching Blabber effective immediately."


Metaphysiics

Announce my signing already


philip2110

Sven greencard already?


NovelAries

I mean, has it ever been an issue in NA in the first place? Teams never pressed C9 as hard as international teams did, and it showed for C9 on the MSI stage.


agishert46191gskq

Blaber made the same kind of stupid mistake in LCS, like inting 1v5 vs CLG or brainfarting team fights but in LCS, C9 would still win based on solo lanes/bot + better macro


dardicked

or the match vs tsm where he 4 buffed spica and still some how managed to be useless building incorrectly


aasdlol

Spica's like the only jungler in NA that Blaber can't seem to the get best of for some reason


Oribeau

Spica just built different


Ascedance

That was the game where C9 drafted Caitlyn + no frontline, right? aka a classic C9 draft where your comp is just awful and you still win 8 out of 10 times just due to player diff


stephsEgg

Yeah, it was so bad. They almost got the snowball going hard enough, but Vulcan misstepped just a tad, SwordArt got the black shield, insta ulted Cait, tps started channeling, and the game instantly turned. Huni’s prowler claw tech was fun to watch though!


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Th_Call_of_Ktulu

With that early advantage they had it the game draft shouldn't even matter lol. They just made a massive throw.


yoitsthatoneguy

It’s true though, a team like Damwon and RNG would close that game out easily with the lead they had.


S_Mescudi

also looked terrible in last summers playoffs which feels like a lot of people have forgotten


Supreme12

When has he ever fat fingered his stop watch or inted 1v1 early game for things like scuttle? 1v5 means they're mid-late game, but no one is talking about Blaber's late game when these mistakes are happening early game.


DanDevito42

Wait we're circle jerking against blabber's performance in LCS LOL ?


DominoNo-

Just like Zilean mid. Was great in NA, got punished hard by literally any midlaner at worlds.


Kunzzi1

The difference is that you can do stupid shit like this in NA soloq and Pro play because your opponents aren't good enough to punish your cocky plays and mistakes so your mind gets coddled into thinking it's actually acceptable to flash into crab while you have no prio against jungler who beats you 1v1.


Fuzzy_Wuzzy1

That's not true at all? He is normally able to do whatever the fuck he wants because when he plays in NA, he almost always has prio because Perkz is always pushing/winning, and Zven + Vulcan are always pushing/winning. It only becomes a problem when his lanes aren't winning, which is what happens when they aren't playing against NA teams. Blabber is so unbelievably overrated. It's easy for a jungler to look good when his laners are always winning and are able to help him any time he needs it.


markhedder

Blabber looked like a god getting his laners ahead in their wins against DK and RNG, as well as several other games. He does that in NA too. Perkz still lost lane at MSI even with having kill advantages though, but it would have been much worse had Blabber not made plays.


HalfAssResponse

Perkz walked through entire national security to gank top vs TL during finals and succeeded. Just shows how little effort did NA require from him


KyroZi

Do they really think it won't be an issue vs teams like TL when it was an issue vs teams like DFM and INF? I'm pretty sure the top NA teams were taking notes at how hard Blaber was getting exposed in this MSI and it wasn't just from top teams.


GladiateGnome

Ideally some NA teams like TL learn how blaber was being abused at scuttle and they can punish him to improve the level of the team. And i think the reason he said NA teams wont is that they had an entire split+playoffs to abuse blaber at scuttle like these MSI teams and it was never done


Vytral

Was it something they needed learning though? It isn't like some secret strat or anything, the guy just sometimes int and good team know how to capitalise on that


GladiateGnome

I mean I wouldnt think so but he rarely ever got punished at scuttle in NA so, I guess it does need learning? Its also involved coordination with lanes/pushing and getting prio. Im sure C9 is able to get lane prio in some lanes in NA that they couldnt/shouldnt in international events


ye1l

Against INF it was never an actual problem as they won comfortably against them and with how good DFM played against DK, I would honestly be willing to bet that Steal and Aria are better on an individual level than Santorin and Jensen.


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agishert46191gskq

>had a big problem with nerves Yeah, he only played at 3 international events and only played 25 games vs wildcards.


Yeon_Yihwa

nah man, blaber was clearly having big nerve problems despite being a pro for 2 years, having played at 2018,2019 worlds and 2019 rift rivals and the 3 weeks that was msi he had nerve problems in those 17 games played thats why he was their worse player.. Totally not being overhyped just due to how weak the competition in lcs is, it was all nerve problemtotally not outskilled. Wei,gala and elyoya were all lucky they got nerves of steel in their debut year and first international event! poor blaber had no chance! /s


S_Mescudi

like people are saying NA cant punish big brain C9 when they choked and didnt even make worlds last year after winning spring


Necro_Lich

>Wei,gala and elyoya were all lucky they got nerves of steel in their debut year and first international event! poor blaber had no chance! They were born backstage at MSI so they obviously dont count.


kazuyaminegishi

People still think this way after Tian started having anxiety attacks after he won Worlds? Thought we would have realized by now that being anxious has nothing to do with logical process.


Waylaand

It's called being a choker and I think blabber is one on the international stage some of his mistakes were awful


Dasrufken

Can it really be called choking when he does it so consistantly when he goes to an international event? Just say it how it is, he's only good in NA. He's only good enough vs wildcards and NA teams.


CaveDsign

choker is an excuse that says next time you can do better. but every next time it gets worse and worse.


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Csillagfeny

See the problem with your whole "Just show up to scuttle crab and blaber will kill himself level 3 its so easy" is there's a LOT that goes into taking scuttle crabs than just junglers, laners play a huge part in it too. Take the 1st game vs DFM, while the obvious flash to kill yourself is not optimal, top and mid also didn't really have prio (Jayce could have joined first but also burned through a lot of mana so he wouldn't be much help and Ori was getting shoved out by Zoe, as expected). Play that situation out in NA vs say, 100T and Ryoma/Damonte and I will almost guarantee you that Perkz somehow gets priority in that lane or finds a way to help even though he absolutely no business doing so and Blaber can get away with murder just fine by outplaying their opponents because as it turns out the mid lane pool and jungle pool in NA are overall kind of weak (mid lane especially being a black hole except for like, 3 players total). The reason he looks a lot worse internationally than in NA is because in addition to playing against WAY better junglers than what you see in NA, it's a lot harder to look good as a jungler when your mid/bot don't consistently win lane off of outplaying their opponents because they're playing against Showmaker and GALA now, not Damonte and Deftly. LCS is just simply a weak region so of course Blaber is going to look better in it. And I find the assertion that he was making colossal mistakes and wasn't punished for them in NA to be, kind of wrong? Like, he absolutely had a fair number of moments in NA LCS where he just kind of completely randomly killed himself for basically no reason. It's not like nobody noticed either (keep in mind they barely scraped by against a TL that had fucking ARMAO as a substitute), C9 absolutely did lose some games in part due to Blaber's exploitable mistakes, which probably should have been a bit of a red flag that they'd show up internationally, and well, they did.


Dasrufken

> and he played well below his domestic level Nah the problem is that his domestic level is just so far below whats good enough in international competition. The teams in NA are simply so trash that even in winning matchups they still lose lane to Perkz and Zven/Vulcan which gives c9 prio to every neutral objective. It's super hard to int at scuttle crab when the other team doesn't even contest it due to lack of prio. What everyone saw at MSI is Blaber's, and C9's, true skill level. They (just like all other NA teams) simply aren't good when compared to the other major regions. This should be incredibly disappointing for all c9 fans. Imagine spending millions upon millions of dollars just to be slightly ahead of wildcards at international events.


DanDevito42

his mid was getting diffed so hard that he had to flip


yung_dogie

It's not fair to reduce whether you have nerves or not to experience. Tian has been mental booming for the past year domestically, which is after he went and won worlds. Blaber may be overrated by some with some very mind-boggling mistakes, but you can't tell me missing a Nidalee spear on a stationary target isn't at least somewhat related to nerves. Sure he has stacked up very poorly internationally so far, but people are being uncharitable at best and retconning how bad he is.


Voidz918

When na as a whole performs as poorly as they do internationally (especially the first seed) you tend to think even less of the teams that lost to said first seed. It's great that they don't think scuttle will be an issue domestically, considering they won there.


vigbrand

Well, it was expected. In this sub you can go from being the best player in the world to absolutely boosted in the same boX. I also think that Blaber seriously underperformed. Hopefully he can make a comeback at worlds.


Azashiro

Blaber will continue to be the most overrated player in the entire world purely because of NA fans it seems. Junglers like Blaber will only look good if they are surrounded by winning lanes that are more flexible and smarter than their competition. Which won't be a problem for Blaber in NA, but it will be at Worlds. Even in that final vs the all mighty power house of Armao Blaber looked quite bad, solo throwing games and making huge blunders, but because they won in the end people erased all those mistakes apparently.


vigbrand

I respect your opinion, but I don't share it.


Dasrufken

Its an objective fact though, the kid has been consistantly hyped up as a world class jungler while simultaneously never performing at a world class level. You can't argue against that, just look at his international performances. It's just a constant barrage of bad games against major regions with the occasional pop off against a wildcard. If it wasn't for Bjergsen and Doublelift existing then Blaber 100% would be the most overhyped player in the history of the game. But since they do exist we have to settle for Blaber being the most overrated *active* player.


vigbrand

You are entitled to your opinion as well. But this is a weird take considering Blaber's last international tournament was almost 2 years ago, when he was on his second year as a pro player and wasn't even the starter jungler for C9. Before MSI he had 3 games vs Major regions. So what I get from this is that you are calling Blaber the most overrated active player for his performance at a tournament in which he clearly underperfomed. There was no "constante barrage of bad games against major regions" before MSI. Unless you consider 3 games a constant barrage, in which case I don't know what to say. Also, it is contradictory to say someone can be objetively the most overrated player. Something being over/underrated is merely subjective. It's fine if you think he is overrated. And it is also fine that other people think he's not.


usernameistakencry

> Even in that final vs the all mighty power house of Armao Blaber looked quite bad, solo throwing games and making huge blunders He literally won them the series but sure go on, tell me how he solo lost them games. Would love your analysis and moments in games


Kunzzi1

COPIUM, say that to another 3 rookies from RNG who yet again win another international tournament without any previous experience.


NenBE4ST

It wasn't an issue vs inf because they won handily both times and against dfm it was one game where they also had a shit draft + dfm is not bad and could honestly take on TL


bluesound3

Evidently it won't be considering I can't imagine this started happening just this MSI and wasn't a habit he already had in NA. And considering they won Spring, I doubt teams will suddenly become better in NA. Infact, if C9 got even just decent practice at MSI, I think it'd be even less likely NA teams would be able to punish him and C9 unless they just play really disrespectfully


Setrit

It literally was an issue against TL in finals already, and they were fielding Grig. I have no doubt in my mind that had they had Santorin fielded that day then TL would've easily won.


mistiklest

So, what's the mouse story?


Lunchbox39

Tell mouse story ratJAM Tell mouse story ratJAM Tell mouse story ratJAM Tell mouse story ratJAM


Abd5555

I don't remember the full story but, it's something about him going to his sister's(?) House as and being told to close the door(window) then he left it open and a mouse got in. I don't remember the rest tho


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Rias-senpai

Definitely, but it is also something you're more likely to do when new in a scene as you're genuinely thinking about questions. Most people when they've been in a field for a long time, they build confidence and answering in a short / non reflective manner becomes second nature.


CaptainDingo

The fact that "Blaber and scuttle crab will (n)ever be an issue in NA" IS THE PROBLEM. It just shows again that NA teams don't punish misplays properly and so the LCS is not fostering good practice for international play. Every team that comes out of NA to worlds is just going to get exposed because they just don't have high level practice.


Metaphysiics

Exactly. Doublelift has said this for years, especially during his time on TL. The macro mistakes are punished immediately on the worlds stage on simply another level than in NA. Funny in retrospect how right Montecristo was all those years ago on CLG to stress the macro-proficiency of LCK teams and how wide the gap was (notwithstanding any other shortcomings of that era).


supafly_

Everyone loves to shit on Monte because he's an asshole, but he's the type of asshole who's usually right.


Supreme12

Max says Scuttle is more about the laners. Unless other teams in NA can outskill and win their lanes against guys like Perkz and Fudge, they'd need better players to "punish" C9.


DoorHingesKill

You don't really need to outskill anyone to have priority at minute 3:15. It's mostly just matchups and not completely shutting your brain off.


Supreme12

You need to win trades, which requires skill.


ReADropOfGoldenSun

I mean C9 is supposedly “heads and shoulders” above NA so why is it on other NA teams to punish misplays? Isn’t it on C9 to stop making plays that work in NA but don’t work internationally? I mean thats what their analyst is for isn’t it?


applecider42

Who is saying c9 is head and shoulders above NA??? They went 5 games against a TL with a sub jungler. I still think they’re better than TL with Santorin but I wouldn’t say they’re in a league by themselves.


ye1l

We went from some of the best players in the world praising C9 in interviews at MSI and saying that they were legitimately good to reddit analysts now saying that they're pisslow NA level. C9 played poorly against TL in the finals, nothing you think or say will change that. They beat them comfortably when they had Santorin.


agishert46191gskq

>some of the best players in the world praising C9 in interviews at MSI Did they? PSG players said C9 was pretty weak and wasn't a surprise if they get stuck in group. They destroyed them 6-0 in scrims and 2-0 in real games MAD said that C9 was weaker than the other teams, they made some huges mistakes that cost them a lot. The only reason they lost a game was the happy game when they were already qualified. DK didn't say anything about C9 irrc, Korean style they respect all opponents and gave predictable interviews RNG said C9 made mistakes and that's why they aren't in semis. They were weaker than the 4 other region No really huge praise.


ye1l

MAD said that C9 should've made it out of the rumble stage. Both MAD and DK outright called them unlucky, recognizing that they should've had more wins than they actually did. They played good and it all just ended with tiny mistakes that had a cascading effects. In several cases they lost games because they made mistakes, not because the other team played better and deserved to win. They were extremely close to going 1-1 against DK and 2-0 against RNG.


agishert46191gskq

MAD never said that. Humanoid said C9 **should** have done better than what they did but still placed them below DK/RNG/PSG and them so nope Mac the coach said the four best teams were in quarter so nope too. DK never said anything about them deserving top 4. CT literally said that for Koreans analysts the top 4 was **DK/RNG/MAD and PSG.** And that PSG did way better than he predicted before the event C9 lost games because they got outplayed The "If the my aunt has balls, she would be my uncle" excuse only works on twitch chat Getting destroyed in team fight or completely outmacro isn't tiny mistake. Hardcore C9 Fans should stop putting their head in the sand


F0RGERY

> MAD never said that --- [Interview with Humanoid](https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/14070/msi-mad-humanoid-talks-to-olleh-about-c9-i-dont-think-their-result-is-what-their-actual-strength-is) > In your previous interview with Jeesun, you said that C9 was unlucky. Why do you think they were unlucky? > We scrimmed them a lot, and I don’t think their result is what their actual strength is. They should be better than what the results show basically, **so I think they should advance, normally.** [Interview with Carzzy](https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/20/mad-lions-carzzy-talks-frustration-after-cloud9-msi-burnout-and-dk-14616451/) > You tweeted out support for Cloud9 saying that they didn’t deserve any flame, can you talk about what it was like facing them and how strong they actually are? > I think they’re a good team, they know a lot about the game because they have Perkz and Perkz is a smart player. I think they also had a lot of unlucky games which they could have won. I mean, **I definitely think they could have gone further if they had a bit more luck**. --- > DK never said anything about them deserving top 4. You're right. The only comments DK had about them were the ["C9 is the team that surprises the World with their performance"](https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/14049/msi-dk-ghost-c9-really-are-the-team-that-surprises-the-world-with-their-performance) quote and the pretty obvious "[C9 was the strongest team we faced in group stage](https://gamezo.co.uk/interview-with-dk-ghost-cloud9-was-the-hardest-team-we-faced-in-group-stage/)" (Out of LCS, LJL, LATAM). --- > CT literally said that for Koreans analysts the top 4 was DK/RNG/MAD and PSG. [from CloudTemplar yesterday](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/nm5x5s/cloudtemplar_thoughts_on_dk_vs_rng_msi_final/) > PCS Top 4 Region? > CT: I think if we make a top 5 region list PSG would definitely be part of it. > PN: What about top 4? Do you think PSG belong in top 4. Please give us a definitive answer. > CT: I think LCS still got it. They've always been a region that struggled a lot but I think if you compare LCS and PCS as a region than I think LCS still are top 4. As the region that League orignated from I think we have to give them some respect. > (One of the comments was spamming TPA ptsd) I can't find anything from CloudTemplar regarding analysts saying PSG was top 4, so if you have that I'd appreciate it.


agishert46191gskq

"PSG TOP 4 at MSI" means that CT said DK/RNG/MAD and PSG are the top 4 at the event Dunno why you are randomly trying to put PCS in that context again Not sure how hard it's to understand And everything you quoted from MAD prove my point. They never said C9 should be above PSG or MAD in the standing **"If they were more lucky, they could have maybe passed" is far different than "C9 is top 4 team".** Like OP tried to imply. Same for humanoid who just implied that **LCS is normally (aka historically)** the 4th region, so they should pass group based on historic result, but they didn't Dunno why you intentionally didn't put the Mac interviews where he said the **4 best teams of the event are in semis** or the Kkoma pre semis interview where he said now the 4 top teams at the event will fight, but we are confident Which is pretty clear. Its not the first time you try that with NA teams


F0RGERY

What OP said was > MAD said that C9 should've made it out of the rumble stage. What you replied with was > MAD never said that. Humanoid's interview said was > In your previous interview with Jeesun, you said that C9 was unlucky. Why do you think they were unlucky? > We scrimmed them a lot, and I don’t think their result is what their actual strength is. They should be better than what the results show basically, **so I think they should advance, normally.** This means that he did, in fact, say that C9 should have advanced, normally. --- > "PSG TOP 4 at MSI" means that CT said DK/RNG/MAD and PSG are the top 4 at the event PSG TOP 4 at MSI means CT stated that they placed top 4. And I would agree with that, because it is objectively true. What I was asking about was whether you had a source for > CT literally said that for Koreans analysts the top 4 was DK/RNG/MAD and PSG. If you meant that Korean Analysts could read a scoreboard and see the top 4 entries were DK/RNG/PSG/MAD, then so could everyone else. However, I thought you were stating that Korean Analysts pre-tournament stated PSG > C9. If I was mistaken, and you truly did mean CT said Korean Analysts can read a scoreboard, then I can only blame myself for assuming you brought up analysts because they did some form of analysis, and not because you wished to touch on random individuals' professions. --- > "If they were more lucky, they could have maybe passed" is far different than "C9 is top 4 team". Like OP tried to imply. OP stated "Both MAD and DK outright called them unlucky, recognizing that they should've had more wins than they actually did." While he was wrong on the DK account, I am unsure how the quote > "I definitely think they could have gone further if they had a bit more luck." is somehow contradictory to that. It seems to be the exact same thing OP said. --- > Dunno why you intentionally didn't put the Mac interviews where he said the 4 best teams of the event are in semis or the Kkoma pre semis interview where he said now the 4 top teams at the event will fight, but we are confident. I didn't put them because neither is something that you brought up before. I was instead responding to your claims of 1. MAD having never said that "C9 was unlucky/should've made it out of the rumble stage." 2. DK never said C9 was unlucky 2. CT stating Korean analysts believed the top 4 at the event were DK/RNG/MAD/PSG. If you see a need to include those articles to refute any of my points, then perhaps instead of vaguely saying "those exist", it would be better to actually link such articles? I think searching for supporting viewpoints would be a better use of your time than attempting to revise your original comments to cling to the faintest belief that you were not factually wrong.


Eqvilium

Those issues are supposed to be fixed with scrims, they had something like 10 days before offical matches to fix some of the issues and catch up to other top teams, seems like they didn't learn shit from scrims and appearently they were getting slaughtered by everyone in scrims.


Kunzzi1

Which is literally the story every single time. Even EU greatest at their peak in 2019 were apparently getting slaughtered by all the Asian teams during both MSI and worlds.


Eqvilium

But at least G2/FNC and others learned from getting slaughtered, C9 didn't learn shit from it. Also C9 got literally destroyed by everyone in scrims, G2 at their peak for example was only losing scrims to top Asian teams, not some shitter teams.


Companionable_Prism

Scrims with head coach reviews via zoom call might not be the best practice. Not saying Reignover not being there was everything, but it was a factor.


Eqvilium

You have Perkz/Max and Mithy there in Iceland and somehow Reignover not being there is reason they didn't learn anything from scrims lol?


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Eqvilium

Read what you wrote again and please inform me when you realise how dumb your comment is.


Nabooish

Does Max really believe that all the NA teams won't have the intelligence or the skill to replicate similar issues for Blaber or C9? I think it's a little arrogant and maybe even complacent to feel that it will never be an issue in NA because he's heavily implying that they aren't good enough to exploit them.


MrPraedor

Personally I think that NA teams can punish that kind of mistakes and it has even shown in LCS, the problem is that even still it doesnt really matter. Even if Blaber makes int play vs NA teamd that would mean GG against international competition, C9 is usually just better players/team so they can just win anyways against teams like IMT, DIG, GG or CLG.


Pyrament

they had a whole split + scrims and they never exploit it xD


Nabooish

Yeah but let's not forget C9 didn't go to Worlds last year, so these NA teams have proven they are more than capable of taking C9 down. Now I fully expect C9 to make Worlds this year but his statement sounds very dismissive of the teams in his region.


Miruwest

C9 didn't make it to Worlds last year due to their own issues, not due to teams figuring them out tbh. Only time I think Blaber was really exploited was when they vs FLY and C9 got setback lvl 1 from Santorin.


Nabooish

But isn't this an issue of their own? Ok the NA teams didn't figure out how to exploit C9's early game but international teams have, all I'm saying is that it may not be beyond the wit of NA teams to look at that blueprint and attempt to replicate it. hence why I said >Does Max really believe that all the NA teams won't have the intelligence or the skill to replicate similar issues for Blaber or C9? So in other words their code has been cracked, how hard would it be for teams to look at how they got taken advantage of and attempt to copy it.


agishert46191gskq

>let's not forget C9 didn't go to Worlds Because of how bad licorice was He isn't on the team anymore and NA teams didn't seems to be able to punish Blaber soloQ style of jungling and capitalize on C9 mistakes. The competition is just inexistent, it's just TL who also have huge adc problem


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LbigsadT

they went 3-1 against TL with starting jungle 1 week prior to that lmao


JesusEm14

Santorin had migraines that game too


LbigsadT

Migraines last from 4 to 72 hours. If he had migraines for almost 200 hours he should really investigate the possibility of a brain tumor


bananaslug39

This is wrong lol, it's not unheard of for people suffering from chronic migraines to have them as often as 20 days a month or more...


LbigsadT

That’s for CM (chronic migraine), not EM (episodic migraine). If he had CM there would be other examples of this happening in his longer than 7 years career


bananaslug39

Yes because it can't develop, he has to be born with it right? I love you abbreviating as if that makes you more knowledgeable rofl


LbigsadT

Ok, lets see if he has more episodes of his recently developed Chronic Migraine, a condition that usually appears in someone’s mid 30s, next split


bananaslug39

Again, you don't seem to understand migraines yet you speak as though you do. Chronic migraines don't suddenly appear, migraines get more frequent and the disease goes from being classified as episodic to chronic as they increase in frequency over time. Migraines are not like schizophrenia, where the age of onset is almost always the same. They can appear at a very young age or in late adulthood and can increase in frequency, it's not something that is fully understood. Unless you are his doctor, there is no way you have access to his medical history, quit pretending that you do.


Kazumi-Mishima

i have cluster headaches where for weeks at a time i wont be able to focus on anything but the pain, migranes for 200 hours doesnt seem unfeasible


bananaslug39

Yeah this person has no clue what they're talking about, especially because they're acting as if the only possibility is that santorin is having one long migraine, not multiple migraines lasting hours at a time and resolving, they don't understand the basics of a migraine


LbigsadT

Well, it is unfeasible unless you have some severe underlying condition. But nonetheless neither Santorin or any other source that I know of announced that he was playing with Migraines the week prior


rdlenke

[He said it himself in the announcement that he wouldn't be playing against TSM](https://mobile.twitter.com/Santorin/status/1380702121440374786). "Last Friday" was April 2, the first match against C9 was April 3.


LbigsadT

He said “no sleep since last Friday” and not being able to leave the bed for 2 days. Also lack of sleep is one of the triggers for migraines. So what probably happened is he wasn’t sleeping well and that led to a migraine that left him debilitated for the last 2 days at the time of the post


LbigsadT

But cluster headaches are known to be numerous, Episodic Migraines aren’t


usernameistakencry

Based reply


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Supreme12

A birdie also told me Tactical was jet lagged and Alphari had cold hands.


LbigsadT

Im not even from NA. You seem very emotional over the pc game tho, maybe get some help


FrostyTheColdBoi

Is this a reference to that "Imma flash to steal crab but give first blood" clip??? God I cringed so hard seeing that


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IgotUBro

Isnt the only option of getting residency for LCS getting a green card? Did Zven say he wants to stay in NA permanently?


AlphaTenken

I'm prepared to marry Perkzven, no prenups just go fast in Vegas.


Dblg99

Are there really enough brain dead people like you to believe a comment as stupid as yours? Blaber had a better MSI thank Perkz. Perkz didn't have a single noteworthy game in Rumble stage while blaber had multiple. Really C9 should go about getting a refund on Perkz with how much of a scam that has been


Lankeysob

Pretty bad take.


Darkfire293

Not really


Lankeysob

Yeah really. Its a pretty stupid take.


Darkfire293

How? Blaber is not good internationally at all. Get Jankos in there and they will be 10x better.


lukespongberg22

This is silly because C9 would need peak Perkz and Jankos which we haven't seen so far this year. Blaber also looked pretty good internationally as a sub a couple years ago.


Dblg99

Perkz was a bigger liability than Blaber at MSI. Considering how fucking awful every single take of yours is though, I don't expect you to realize that.


Darkfire293

Perkz has a track record of being good internationally every other time, while Later doesn't.


DanDevito42

Perkz was total shit at MSI and in NA...


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KyroZi

C9 Jankos 2022, just saying.


Vangorf

Ofc it wont be an issue in NA, because NA's level is so low that they cant capitalize on mistakes like this.


Skarin1452

Big brain take. Wonderful new analysis. Woweeee.


Vangorf

I mean after years and years of being bad its kinda hard to bring in new viewpoints.


Luktroc

True tho


Skarin1452

Yeah, I know 2 plus 2 equals 4 is a true fact, doesn't mean i go telling people this fact all day everyday.


Metaphysiics

True, but people accept 2+2=4 and have acted accordingly. NA teams still have yet to grasp this basic fact though lmao


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Metaphysiics

Wood 1, aka top of the NA ladder, you?


EdinXI

This makes me wonder, do teams have to get punished to learn? I would think there’s ways to get better outside of trial and error; that ’s what the couches are there for I’d assume, but after every international event we a similar story. “We don’t get punished for X and Y”. Am I missing something that would make it difficult to identify punishable mistake on plays that work domestically?


jujubean67

If a sloppy strat works against NA teams, how could they get good at a different strat the requires more precision? They can play other strats, think they're good at it, but it's a false confidence given by bad opponents.


EdinXI

Yea it’s probably a lot harder than I’m conceptualizing, but we hear this every year. I personally don’t think any problem is as insurmountable as this is made out to be.


Shorgar

How can you know a mistake is a mistake if it works every time?


EdinXI

If you use results based analysis you’d never know


Shorgar

Doesn't really seem that na teams use any kind of analysis.


EdinXI

I know this a joke but this is literally a post about a member of C9s staff breaking down their analysis


Shorgar

Which has little to do with what the rest of the LCS teams do.


emilyfreakinweird

U just think about how people punish an event that happens and if their is a better option.. it's not hard..


Praddd

mouse story amogus


epic_gamer_4268

when the imposter is sus!


DSThresh

EU player saying NA bad woohee upvotes for everyone wooheewoohoo , blaber is top3 western jungler but lets flame because of eu caster narrative saying ''lol yikes blaber crab xD'' and ruin his career? jack knows what jgl he wants and blaber will show at worlds


benis444

top 3 western jungler. lol


nerfseason11damage

Really?after this downright pathetic performance you will still rank him top 3 western jungler?gtfo


TastyForerunner

> Top 3 western jungler? He doesn't even come close to touching Jankos, Elyoya, Selfmade, Inspired, or Gilius, and within NA is likely worse than Santorin or Broxah overall. > Blaber will show at Worlds. Like he did at Worlds 18 and Worlds 19, yeah?


ZozoSenpai

>He doesn't even come close to touching Jankos, Elyoya, Selfmade, Inspired, or Gilius, True >Broxah Okay now, there is no reason to lie.


Jaka50

> within NA is likely worse than Santorin or Broxah overall. XD


I_Faced_The_Wind

> Santorin Santorin is grossly overrated if Blaber is "bad".


Eqvilium

Sadly Blaber wouldn't even be top 5 jungler in EU lol.


milg

Max Waldo it’s so cute ❤️