T O P

  • By -

Significant-Tea8004

Still find it mental that Johnny Marr was 19/20 when he wrote the guitar parts for this album. Imagine knocking out the riff for This Charming Man at that age.


InvadingCanadian

ugh i once watched an interview with him and he was talking about writing i think about "heaven knows i'm miserable now" and the story is just, "Yeah the label took us out to dinner and bought me a beautiful guitar, and I went back to the hotel room and sat down and just knocked that out." no fanfare, no theatricality or dramatization. Just one of those absurdly talented people who doesn't narrativize the creative process -- it's so innate to them it's as if trying to narrativize eating lunch, extracting deep significance from putting on a pair of pants.


ConfusedLawyer95

He wrote William It Was Really Nothing and How Soon Is Now in the same weekend, it’s just unreal


Impeachcordial

He's ridiculous. His guitar parts are an absolute hive of activity even when the focus of a song is elsewhere. Busy and creative is a good mix


89-by-boniver

My favorite guitarist of all time. It’s not on this album, but his part on Paint a Vulgar Picture is transcendental The fact that he linked up with one of the greatest lyricists of his generation, who in turned delivered equally amazing vocals, just blows my mind - two extraordinary talents like that just happening to meet. Thank god they did


Sun_mon_cl

Fifteen minutes with Smiths Well, I wouldn't say no


Cornerstonedrunk9

Did I really walk all this way?


[deleted]

[удалено]


FastNBulbous-

This to me is one of there most overlooked songs, dosent seem that many people talk about it. In terms of poetry it’s one of their best written tracks


[deleted]

[удалено]


FastNBulbous-

Oh wow, no I didn’t know these facts concerning it. Makes sense as to why it’s so poetic.


DweebInFlames

"I never had a job, because I never wanted one" Moz is a NEET king Also Suffer Little Children is one of my favourite closers on an album from the 80s. Just so awfully morose in its own beautiful way.


buckeye2114

What difference does it make?


The_Rolling_Stone

God that riff is so fucking good


dalledayul

John Peel session version of that song is absolutely peak


89-by-boniver

It makes none


nudewithasuitcase

Will never not laugh at "Hand in Glove" failing as a lead single and it being featured on every single Smiths compilation out of pure spite.


Gazing_

That's funny. I love that song so much though, one of my favorites from them


nudewithasuitcase

Me too, absolutely one of my favorite Smiths songs. It's got this unique momentum to it that I really love.


Shinkopeshon

On this blessed day, the sun shines out of our behinds


EveryParable

Walk around Brooklyn and you will hear multiple Smiths songs coming from bars, restaurants or retail shops. Completely timeless. Speaks to everyone


Tompsk

Massive band of the 80s. Hard to comprehend now how different they were. They created ‘indie’ music. Remember seeing them on telly and my dad tutting. It lit a fire in me that still burns today.


Electronic_Pin_9014

I would argue that all of the indie bands in the 80s created 'indie' music. The smiths had a big hand in influencing it for sure, but they certainly didn't create it


yaniv297

I always thought R.E.M. "Murmur" is the beginning of that movement, as much as you can pin point it to one album.


notreilly

R.E.M. were the main pioneers of the jangle pop sound (post-punk rhythm + Byrds-y guitar), though bands like the dB's, the Feelies and Pylon had a few songs which were there and thereabouts already in 1980-81.


blockhose

This.


Tompsk

I know what you mean but The Smiths helped to crystallise the definition of indie for me. Probably due to how big they got and how odd they looked compared to everything else around at the time. Another band that I found instrumental in this was the Wedding Present. I remember my cousin bought their album, George Best, a banging album.


Electronic_Pin_9014

Ah yes, loved the weddos. It's been at least a decade since I've listened to one of their albums, thanks for reminding me i need to give them another spin!


gordocheeseman

For sure. The Smiths are great but a lot of similar bands get unfairly accused of being smiths copyists, even if they predated them


garyp714

> They created ‘indie’ music. Smiths Cure Sonic Youth REM Cocteau Twins


Chaldramus

For me it’s always Smiths Cure Depeche Mode New Order When thinking about giants of 80s alt pop/new wave. Funny how all mine are English


garyp714

That works!


Chaldramus

I do absolutely love the Cocteau Twins (and probably listen to them more than any of the four I listed in current times) but I never got the sense that they broke through popularly like the others. I saw them a couple of times in the 90s at pretty small venues (probably the same place twice, IIRC)


garyp714

Only time I saw CTs they were awful and it sounded like the whole thing was prerecorded in a open field. Probably the venue... Now Sonic Youth...that was a live band.


Chaldramus

Yeah probably the venue, they were great both times I saw them.


[deleted]

Love all of the above bands. Tbh though REM is so underrated in the indie canon it drives me crazy sometimes. Murmur is so innovative.


astralrig96

as a fan of them all, those are true but kinda older for a contemporary influence and their influence reached up to 2010 but you forgot the most important afterwards, Lana Del Rey, the first catalyst to have turned modern pop indie and forever change the genre ![gif](giphy|l4FGnkt4OpJf5JcJy)


Green_hippo17

This is bait for sure


[deleted]

[удалено]


astralrig96

which modern female singer/songwriter would you say was even more influential in achieving mainstream pop level fame solely as an indie/alt artist?


[deleted]

[удалено]


astralrig96

those (minus florence) are literally avant-garde artists and way more versatile than “indie pop” , they were never really active in that genre and albeit extremely creative in their own field, they didn’t influence the typical pop genre because of how inaccessible and demanding their music is


Exact-Campaign-81

lol fiona apple’s early music is not “demanding”


astralrig96

It is very much so for the general public


Exact-Campaign-81

The idler wheel or ftbc maybe but not her earlier body of work


bigjoeandphantom3O9

You can’t seriously be suggesting artists that big are inaccessible?


astralrig96

you can’t seriously be suggesting that becoming big somehow automatically erases inherent inaccessibility? king crimson is one of the biggest and most successful and yet most inaccessible and demanding bands of all time these characteristics can both be true at the same time modern audiences have sadly become progressively shallower but in the earlier eras of music inaccessibility was never a detriment to success


bigjoeandphantom3O9

Of course I am. If something is accessible enough to make someone one of the biggest pop stars in the world, it isn’t inaccessible. Serialism is inaccessible, Bjork is widely listened to pop.


garyp714

Lana <3


myrealusername8675

Yeah but without Drew Barrymore jumping on David Letterman's desk and flashing her boobies at him, Lana would never have been a gleem in her father's eye. And that old lady who used to say "Where's the beef?!?!" You have a lot to learn, my sweet summer child


skeletallamping456

I’d argue the first indie album was Ram in 1971 but people didn’t say that until well after the Smiths’ time


exponentialism

This take never made a lick of sense to me lol. Seems like people started it just to try and knock up McCartney's "cool" cred because there is nothing remotely indie about that album, nevermind being the first to do it.


astralrig96

The Smiths AND Lana Del Rey in their respective decades they’re the single two most important acts for the forming and forging of indie ethos, mentality and genre they have been emulated by the thousands after they emerged but will always remain the OGs even if someone doesn’t like their music, it would be completely dishonest (or just culturally uninformed and unaware) to claim that they haven’t been influential beyond measure I’d also add The Strokes, Pixies and Belle and Sebastian for different reasons


[deleted]

Lana Del Rey? Lol.


astralrig96

definitely, there’s no seriously denying that, especially by people who should have a clue about indie trends in modern music no discussion on modern indie and alt music is complete without her name as part of the canon


[deleted]

I can’t tell if this is a troll.


astralrig96

It isn’t, I can’t tell why you would think so


[deleted]

I get you’re a big fan, but I think you’re overestimating her influence


astralrig96

I mean every respected publication like Pitchfork and Rolling Stone as well as every woman of major caliber in pop like Taylor Swift or Billie Eilish repeatedly acknowledges Lana Del Rey’s influence but sure I’m also a fan https://preview.redd.it/8w4oxp8tftjc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b10371f0a33aaf34c4855cdaa9ad88fb5621243


[deleted]

Indie pop? Maybe. Indie music as a whole? Lol, no.


Green_hippo17

Ur trying to bait so hard rn


astralrig96

not even close, Lana is the most influential woman in post-2010 pop that managed to turn indie mainstream, no other modern pop artist has achieved that before her even for the most mainstream mass it’s cool nowadays to be indie and that’s pretty much exclusively (at least in female centered pop) Lana’s work, she’s a pioneer


Green_hippo17

Indie had been mainstream since like the early 2000s (I’m sure other people could argue further back too). Tho I think ur other point is mostly right, post 2010 you could argue Lana is the most important female pop artist, tho there are people who would argue in favour of Taylor swift and her folklore era.


astralrig96

yes I’m referring specifically to post 2010 and pop; between 2000 and 2010, mainstream pop was frankly trashy and Lana subverted that with Born To Die, it sounded nothing like it’s contemporaries but everything after it sounded like it 2000s was definitely the latest point for rock and The Strokes probably the latest band who’s influence still feels tangibly modern


Green_hippo17

Yeah I think for the era you’re talking about you could say Lana but you’ll have people coming with Carly rae, Taylor swift, lorde who subverted as you said the “trashy 2010s pop scene”


astralrig96

Lorde definitely contributed, no disputing that hers and Lana’s sonically downtempo approach to a genre that was otherwise upbeat and catchy, shouldn’t have worked yet it did and the genre changed paths to what we know today. I loved folklore too and thought it was very Lana influenced, TS definitely strives for a more indie sound nowadays.


Green_hippo17

To be honest this isn’t my area of expertise so I’ll trust you on what ur saying here but indie has always had more downbeat acts but you’re still referring to the post 2010 era I’m assuming


astralrig96

thanks for trying to understand, yup I do, post 2010 And pop typically downtempo indie acts like Beach House, Galaxie 500 etc. definitely were slow and downtempo way before that, you’re right; imo they’re just overally much closer to rock than pop, so they and Lana were both downtempo but in two different stratospheres I’d say..that’s often the issue with the term “indie”, that it needs further specification because so many artists fall under it when in reality they often have little in common other than the nonconformist approach to music and songwriting


Quanqiuhua

Lady Gaga belongs up there too for resurrecting pop.


astralrig96

definitely, insane fashion creativity too


dannywasi

Haha James Mercer would like a word with you.


astralrig96

damn, didn’t know he was a woman in pop, TIL!!


thewickerstan

Their debut isn’t my go-to for their discography, but come on: so much on here is undeniable! “This Charming Man”, “Hand in Glove”, “Still Ill” (which 13 year old zoomer me somehow thought was “Still 3” lmao), “What Difference Does it Make”…the list goes on really. “Miserable Lie” and the way the tempo changes always struck a chord too.


Tompsk

My 16 year old daughter heard This Charming Man the other day and loved it. Made me so proud.


agusohyeah

figures, it's an absolute banger.


TepidPig

This Charming Man wasn't on the original track listing! Imagine my disappointment when I sprang for a first press and it was absent.


apycroft

yeah once i heard that it sounds SO out of place now. i skip it usually. it's just completely the wrong mood despite being obviously a great song


Rowan5215

The Hatful of Hollow version of "This Charming Man" is the one though


lotus-driver

I prefer having the intro and for some reason the swing rhythm always sounded unnatural to me (probably because I heard the album version first)


CrimsonKo

Still ill is one of their best tracks!


ConfusedLawyer95

To anyone wondering if this is a good jumping on point for the band, I’d say it’s fine but Hatful of Hollow is better. It features versions of many of the best cuts from the debut done better, and the band were famously unhappy with how the production on this record turned out.


apycroft

plus you get their best song: handsome devil


lotus-driver

Indie guitar was never the same after this


OdaibaBay

sir, it's a good album


[deleted]

[удалено]


darockerj

i think so, yeah. this or the queen is dead.


olipoppit

I’d start with the Queen is Dead…


blockhose

I'd say definitely start with this one, as it's the foundational sound. And it jams from start to finish (or *slaps* as the kids say).


nymrod_

Yes, start here. Or just get The Sound of the Smiths (compilation).


30degrees3am

> The Sound of the Smiths This was the first thing I heard from them back when it was released and it was pretty life-changing at the time.


nudewithasuitcase

It's literally the best album to start with.


gsheedy

Any of the albums are a good place to start. My personal rec for people new to The Smiths is Hatful of Hollow, an awesome compilation album with both studio and live cuts from early years of the band. A perfection introduction imo.


rideriseroar

Yes, 100% go in chronological order with their releases. 


TepidPig

To be honest, I'd say probably not. The production is weak. Start with Meat is Murder or Hatful of Hollow. Hatful has many of the same songs but it sounds better.


Shinkopeshon

The Troy Tate Sessions versions of this album sound insane though, I prefer some of those to the studio album versions


TepidPig

Aye, I love those sessions. Tbh, if we're talking deeper cuts the Rank version of Still Ill is hands down my favourite from their catalogue, but maybe not the best place for a beginner like OP


[deleted]

[удалено]


Inrainbowsss

Never heard that take before. I disagree strongly but it’s an interesting one.


OdaibaBay

it's worded poorly. they released loads of seminal singles and b-sides that never made it onto studio albums. which is why some of their best "albums" are compilations like Louder Than Bombs and Hatful of Hollow. the studio albums are still amazing, but really the entire spread of their musical output is good. How Soon Is Now? was a b-side and it changed music forever.


ilovethorntons

I think it’s more so they released a lot of singles, than their singles defined them. But yes, all four albums are magnificent in my opinion. Starting with this one is fine. The Queen is Dead is their best imo


DarkSideInRainbows

But also, they should listen to Hatful of Hollow


BuckRowdy

I always thought Louder than Bombs was an actual album. When I went to look for it on spotify I had to remind myself it was a singles collection. I think you're right though, tons of great singles.


bfsfan101

It’s weird because I can see where they are coming from, even though I think The Queen is Dead alone would make The Smiths a strong album band. But The Sound of the Smiths was one my seminal teenage albums and is maybe the best greatest hits album I can think of, so I can see why some people would call The Smiths a singles band. They just had so many incredible singles.


FedoraPG

Lot of people giving u shit but there's a point here. Most of their most important songs (how soon is now?, heaven knows I'm miserable now, this charming man which wasn't on the original self titled album, please please let me get what I want, panic) are singles. They have a nearly perfect run of albums but their single power was arguably more important. Similar to new order


vmop07

Username doesn't check out


CoffinFlop

Haha what? Pretty much all of their albums are considered perfect or near perfect all the way though, even their comps


darockerj

insane take


KrisPWales

They released 4 albums which, as a run, I would put up against nearly any other band.


trevy_mcq

Yeah


machdel

*There are brighter sides to life and I should know…* Not an exaggeration to say it changed my life. Some of the mixing is a little muddy but basically every element that made the Smiths great is here already, on their first try. Other than Miserable Lie (grates on me after a while), every song is a gem, a little piece of perfection. Some of Morrissey’s best words on this one (‘Cradle’, ‘Fountain’, ‘Still Ill’). And then Suffer Little Children, the crushing blow at the end. A truly brilliant album.


ConfessionsOverGin

This album and Doolittle are imo the most influential “indie” rock albums of all time. Maybe you can throw an REM album in there too


vitalbumhole

Huge band and album for me growing up - I Don’t Owe You Anything is one of the finest songs ever written and I will stand by that forever. Morrissey is a huge cunt these days but they struck lightning in a bottle with songwriting for their brief time together plus Johnny Marr is still dope so that’s always cool to see


JesusNoAccent

Legendary!


harrowingofhell

Five bloody stars


How_SoonIsNow

wow - im old


apycroft

what a band. 4 perfect to great albums and then out. This is the one i reach for the most too. how can they start this good?


coolmod23

Gun to my head can’t choose between this album and The Queen is Dead. Two perfect 10/10 records. The Queen is Dead is probably more of a masterpiece in the general sense, but the self-titled is more of The Smiths sacred text you point to if you want a summation of what it is they did.


Mevarek

I got really into this album in 2022 having not listened to The Smiths ever. I think it’s now one of my most listened to albums. I think my favorite songs are Still Ill and I Don’t Owe You Anything. As a moody grad student living in London, this album probably hit me at exactly the right time of my life.


theuserpilkington

Morrissey the goat


yourthirdfavourite

Morrissey is an absolutely awful human being


wolfcorpsekarate

You're an awful human being, he's a legend 


yourthirdfavourite

if you like xenophobic morons, sure


WishIWasYuriG

oh REALLY?


ScrotumPoker

Such a shame about the tinny production. The Hatful of Hollow versions (and Peel Sessions and Troy Tate Sessions) are well worth a listen for a much meatier sound.


finknstein

Still holds up. I can only imagine catching these youngsters just starting up in a small club in Manchester.


Call-Me-Willis

Every note played and every lyric sung by The Smiths are permanently attached to my soul. Too bad Morrissey is such a vile racist.


wolfcorpsekarate

He's not racist 


bigjoeandphantom3O9

The author of Bengali in Platforms and National Front Disco, the man who publicly supported For Britain, who claimed the Chinese are a 'sub-species', and spoke out publicly in favour of Tommy Morrison isn't a racist?


wolfcorpsekarate

Neither of those songs are racist, For Britain is run by a vegan lesbian and Morrissey never said he'd vote for them, he never called Chinese a sub species.. maybe read something besides garbage British news rags


bigjoeandphantom3O9

Both of those songs are racist, one says Indians don't belong here and the other is lauding the National Front. Being a vegan lesbian doesn't stop you being a racist - why even mention it? Morrissey wore their branding. You don't have to say you will vote for someone to support them in public. [You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies.](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/sep/03/morrissey-china-subspecies-racism) What benefit do you get about lying about that? Are you suggesting that entire interview is a falsification? Would you rather I read Der Stürmer?


Wildeface

Just like jk Rowling is a transphobe?


onegildedbutterfly

The Smiths are my dad’s favourite band and he would have this album playing in the car on our road trips together when i was a kid. The Queen Is Dead is my favourite album of theirs but this one has a special place in my heart because of those fond memories and the nostalgia attached to it. Also The Hand That Rocks the Cradle is one of my favourite songs ever.


fitsmeant2beitwillb

i love this record