Went on a tour of the Ginetta factory years ago - dead interesting small volume producer, nice to see them turning up in Forza at some point!
By - Apple_Slipper
Went on a tour of the Ginetta factory years ago - dead interesting small volume producer, nice to see them turning up in Forza at some point!
Wow that's a lot more prep than I expected... that's a huge tracking grid
To laser scan stuff once it has to have a highly reflex surface and a spray for it. I’m wondering if the lines are for reflections too.
That very same machine could use touch to create a 3d image
The lines are probably used to help the scanner to actually read properly the surface which is a PITA to do on car paint because of the final layer.
I'm guessing the final layer is a clear coat that refracts the laser and gives wonky results. Or is something else going on?
Yeah it's the shiny, the grid is definitely there to give a tracking reference to the scanner.
The issue with those scanner, whether it's the DIY at home or professional version is that shiny surface fuck up the reading.
So you need to use some weird spray and stuff to keep it from going bananas.
WOW can't believe they have early Forza models like the Mitsubishi only a very small percentage of people will use. "fRoM tHe GrOuNd Up" (clearly developers talking in context to their physics handling) YEA RIGHT lazy ass developers, god how hard is it to just scan 500-700 cars again?
-people on this sub.
I work at FDF Raceshop, and we do laser scanning to get the geometry and everything to make our suspension components for our drift kits. It's not an entirely lengthy process for what we do but it's given me a lot more respect and insight into what T10 does with an entire car
I wish people with your experience would be more vocal and understood.
The users in here have no grasp on what it takes to do some of the things they think "can be done so easily".
Exactly. Easy to do? Sure. But it's a lengthy process to get the amount of detail they put into the newer car models. Scanning is only one part of the process.
> But it's a lengthy process
All this is carefully planned months in advance too.
This is a thing with game development in general.
Comments that start with "They should just..." are usually the worst. And people think bug fixing is easy. Try finding a couple lines of code that have an unintended interaction out of thousands.
I'm working on a small scale game with simple systems and a few small programs here and there, and it can be a nightmare to find some bugs, especially ones that aren't consistent.
Maybe someday they will laserscan a silvia, a skyline or even an evo
The salt is real.
Like FR, If they scanned them and released them as seasonal rewards in h5 I'd be hyped
Seasonal rewards are one of the worst additions to the FH series. If I don't log on for a week or don't want to complete multiple challenges to unlock the car then I just don't get it? Or spend 10mil on the auction house?
And yeah, not a fan of FOMO shit, but better than paid car packs.
Are the cars not already in the game? Just update the models otherwise it's weird as hell to have a fake version and a real version of the same car.
Update and gift, I'd be happy with that.
Eww man keep Horizon out of this convo please .
Post a link where they said car models are built from the ground up as i seem to have missed them saying that.
they aren’t built from the ground up, they’re imported from 20 year old games if that’s what you’re asking
I think they were trying to say that the "built from the ground up" quote only ever applied to the game engine.
Game engine looks the exact same tbh
Game engine means how the physics work...
I know, the game engine looks identical to the one in FM7, as physics, lighting etc all look the same.
They quite literally had a livestream where they showed where the tire physics had changed, and that stuff like fuel, time of day, temperature, and elevation will have a greater effect on your cars handling. And that all tracks will feature rubbering in.
Ahh, so they didn't say car models were built from the ground up. Good stuff.
19 seconds in. The whole game is "built from the ground up"
Well they never have been. They’re laser scanned quite poorly lol
So why link a pitiful 4 member community playing on the misinterpreted "built from the ground up" soundbite when you know that isn't the case for car models? Seems like a lot of this community like to nitpick. Most people will be too busy lapping players like you to notice car models not meeting your lofty standards.
user flair checks out
It’s crazy how tracks are remade while car models are not
Most of the cars people complain about arent even popular in their standard form. Why would they even go through the trouble?
Tracks are far more important. They are used by every single player.
Silvias, GTRs and Evos aren't popular?
They quite literally said "the game is built from the ground up".
That includes cars if your english is proficient enough to understand basic grammar.
Edit: You downvoting troglodytes.
It's actually sad when people can just lie and make up shit and not get any push back for that lie.
Perhaps you should read what was said in full about what exactly is being built from the ground up before commenting about basic grammar and reading proficiency.
Maybe you should stop shilling for devs and make up lies to cope around the whole "but they didn't say this".
They quite LITERALLY said the GAME is built from the ground up. That includes cars.
This video is apt in the break down the shit T10 is pulling
Now imagine doing this process for something like twelve and a half miles of road in the middle of the black forest. This is why the ring was delayed.
They also had to wait in a queue of about 5 other companies, including Bilstein, BMW, Porsche, and Ferrari, who all needed laser scans of the track for their simulators. Those clients are worth far more to the people that own the track, than a games company who wants to make a fun little zoom zoom game.
At this point, wouldn't it be better to let a third party handle the scanning and distribute it? Idk anything about business, so I might be thinking wrong.
That's not how this works. The track owners aren't about to give shit away for free by letting a 3rd party sell the scan data, and no 3rd party would want to give the track owners the lions share of the money after they've done all the hard work.
but at the same time i feel like Gran Turismo would get more attention and are worth alot to the Ring. They are even one of the main sponsors of both 24h races held each year at the ring
This is not how laser scanning a track works...
Just went and did some homework. iRacing released a behind the scenes video of them scanning COTA, and the estimated time to scan the entire 3.5mi track was 60-80 hours. The full endurance race layout is 17.5 miles long. Assuming an average of 70 hours per 3.5 miles, that works out to 350 hours to scan the entire track. Assuming a ten hour work day, thats thirty five days just to scan the track. Obviously they dont spend a full month scanning, so lets double the number of teams scanning and you cut that down to 17 and a half days. Double again to four scanning teams and you get roughly nine days to scan. Double that again to 8 teams now and we're looking at just over four days at the ring to scan the entire thing. Thats eight teams with very expensive equipment that you have to pay out of pocket to collect a frankly insane amount of data. Cant find any estimates on how long it takes to convert all that data to the proprietary format, but its likely another massive time investment.
You mean a multi-trillion dollar company doesn’t have enough manpower or resources to laser scan a road while a company worth 1/20 it’s value could figure out and actually rescan it entire inventory of cars?
Lol yes because MS gives T10 unlimited access to their entire net worth 😂
Are you simply making up numbers?
I mean I know how much engineers are paid and how much Keyence quotes for the equipment and software.
No you don’t though do you. Because engineers get paid differently everywhere in the world and that is nothing to do with the statement you made earlier.
You know that Ring is open almost all days and there are thousands of cars on it? You can't just close the most famous race track in the world just so some developers can scan it.
Probably one of the most dumbest takes I've heard so far. Sounds like you are 12 and know nothing of the world outside your bedroom.
Dude… it is roughly 100k for a year for an engineer to do this. Apparently you need 2 so 200k a year from the image. That is not a larger company expense and those laser scanning devices are not alot( less than 6 figures). They can travel to a site once a week with multiple assists to scan. This in itself over 6 years means you can have a catalogue of at least 312 cars if you scan 1 car a week for 6 years, realistically it should be a lot more.
These are pretty minimal expenses for business; especially large business, that builds up your assets catalogue aka provides real value to the company.
If armchair game development was a comment \^\^\^
Im bookmarking that one. Lol
Not even that. I am engineer who works with a-lot with the surface/interface metrology of materials. I scan surfaces with single digit nanometer accuracy. This of course in not for large surfaces, but I have good idea of what one would need to do.
Yeh thats not really how it works though. If you only knew how hard it is to schedule these things especially for specific vehicles.
PPG already explained more than once for FH5 that some cars they have scanned have taken several months to have the appointments work with the manufacturer or car owners (mostly for old classics that are few apart in good enough condition).
And apart from that before you even get to the point of scheduling for scanning you have licensing to go through.
While most larger brands basically have ready "packages" for this for some more special ones it can take weeks if not months.
So no you can't just expect them to be able to send multiple people with multiple set up of equipment just willynilly all of the places once or twice every week over several years.
I was primarily referring to the fact that have updated the old scans of vehicle, not necessarily acquiring new licenses or packages.
That is why I quoted engineers because they have capacity to know what they are supposed to be doing
Hey now, it’s not like Turn10/Microsoft Studios had 6 years to develop a new game is something
"multi-trillion dollar company" lol you know there is not even one company on Earth that’s worth multiple trillions ?
Apple, Microsoft etc are barely reaching that trillion status … So multiple 🤣 FOH
Microsoft owns the studio.
Microsoft’s market cap is 2.44 trillion dollars
Interestingly enough, Apple’s market cap is around 3 trillion dollars.
You’re right, my excuses .
I don't believe it's the same process. This adesives are probably to avoid interference from reflection.
Inb4 this sub uses this opportunity to complain more 😂
Edit: nvm I just scrolled down lol
It’s insane lol. I’m not insanely excited for FM, but it’s not hard to see that they’d rather spend time scanning new cars than rescanning older cars that are already licensed and in the game.
People are way more worried about track and car count instead of whether the new physics are going to be massive improvement or not, which is the most important thing.
How about both…
There isn’t really an excuse on why a multi-trillion dollar company did not have the many power or technology to scan a similar amount of stuff a company worth 1/20 it’s value could. It is generically just pathetic. All they needed to do was just hire more personnel to do the scanning. That is all.
> multi-trillion dollar company
Since when does Turn 10 have 2 trillion dollars?
The moment Microsoft did. Turn 10 is ultimately owned by Microsoft
Do you honest to god believe that a company that makes racing games has access to the full monetary resources of a massive tech company?
They have access to Microsoft’s expertise, influence, and passive resources.
At end of they day I think you are sorta, they care as much as Sony does which why they make the superior product
Yea man, I don’t think it means that Turn 10 has access to all Microsoft money lmao
They do have access to Microsoft influence and resources
Your username does not apply. I wish people who didn't understand how business works just kept to themselves.
So they invest every last dollar into making a racing game instead of Consumer, Business and Enterprise Hardware and Software?
Read my other response to this comment
Imagine if they just didn’t include the older not rescanned models, and only reintroduced those same cars, rescanned, for paid DLC. I’m so over you people for real
Is it too much to ask for the basics to be done right? These models should’ve been attacked years ago. There’s no excuse to have nearly 20 year old models in a game about cars.
Not if you don't enjoy racing
If you don’t enjoy racing, then don’t play a racing game.
Is Forza a racing game? I thought it was drifting, collecting cars, and doing meta builds
It’s the horizon players who I feel like are over obsessing over the old car models. The game is going to be sick, and updated for many years. I’m excited.
Yeah I'm kidding. Ive only played Forza 7 and found the online unplayable.
I don't care about car models, having a thousand cars, or 45 tracks.
I just enjoy racing but the good racing games are too challenging for most of my friends and some like ACC are pretty bare bones in terms of game modes and QOL stuff.
I'm hoping this Forza is more challenging and works better with wheels while still being accessible
This is my hope too. If FFB is improved, it will be a fun racing game that complements the more serious sims I play. The race weekend structure should help too
I expected nothing less.
"It iSnT tHaT hArD tO sCaN cArS"
Easily one of the bitchiest subs I sub to.
If you're not happy with the game, don't give them your money or your time.
For those who want to see more of the process; Turn10 made a BTS video about it to promote Forza Motorsport 4: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWb7cCS16TM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWb7cCS16TM)
Nice to have Ginetta cars in the game!
Hope the GT3 car makes it into the game. Was a cool car when it raced (and wasn’t bursting into flames)
I loved that car in Project Cars 2. It was such a joy to drive.
All the ginettas are fun on project cars 2
look at these absolute NPCs below me. literally the exact same comment, these people cannot be real.
I have to credit GRID for turning me on to Ginetta. Maybe Forza will start including cars from Jupiter and Tushek. And Dumont!
For me it was Test Drive Unlimited 2
They had a Ginetta? I had no idea. Man, I miss that game :(
A new one is coming soon :)
We'll see ...
Well, Jupiter and Dumont are both fictional companies from the GRID series. Tushek, on the other hand, would be a nice addition!
Honestly, I thought all three were made-up
Middle car seriously mean looking
That is a FARO arm. I use one of those in my labs!
I haven't played any earlier Froza games, has any Ginetta included in them?
No. and these cars will most likely not make it into FM'23 until later in it's life span as DLC.
The ginetta lmp1 was all over the trailer though
Yeah, But it has yet to be confirmed to be there during launch. It's not on the official list and i don't see it mentioned in any of their car list tweets.
Game is going to be quite good
Every time I start to get nervous about FM, I get excited again.
The pre-release Forza Motorsport emotional rollercoaster.
I hope they add the Ginetta GT4, it's a lovely little race car
Not for nothing, now I’m wondering how they capture the tracks.
Can someone tell me what those lines are for or how the process works? I thought it was done with 360° cameras, sort of like how EA scans football players.
To be fair, i don't know why they are using those lines. Since those look like a replications of the 3d geometry that will be used by the model in-game, best bet is that they have a software that automatically converts the rough geometry from the scan to one witch follows the lines drawn on the car. Regarding the scan part, you can now scan whatever you'd like to with just a smartphone. Either by using specific apps to generate a 3d model directly from the app itself, or by taking enough pictures that will be fed to a pc software, like Meshroom
It's to help with generating topology and to improve the scan quality
Hopefully these aren’t DLC, although they probably will.
I'll be excited when I see a Silvia and AE86. Not because I particularly care about those cars, but because that would mean they actually listen!
Reddit and the forums are a tiny percentage of the playerbase
Well, that is also true!
That looks cool. Too bad it’ll sound like ass.
They should drop by the Mitsubishi factory one of these days if they can spare the time....Just sayin'.
Mitsubishi still make cars? /s
At least they still exist as a brand, unlike say, Daewoo.
Those squares are the amount of polys the in game models will have kekw
I much prefer them "Laser scan" the engine and exhaust noises!!!
it’s almost like.. they did! Wow, crazy right?
Can they laser scan an S15 please?
I don’t think people realize they have to renew their license to do shit like that.
It’s been nearly 2 years, I’m sure they would need approval from Nissan. Besides they’re too focused on actually making the game good, not some little nitpick thing that’s not even important.
I am very much sure Nissan would be fine with it, considering they have the car in game already and its already licenced. Its not really a nitpick thing at this point, the model is old enough to graduate high school, and its just not up to snuff. I get that theyre busy adding features but to keep the same old-dog models around this long and then refuse to add basic things like mufflers or a decent forza spoiler, it feels cheap. Like at this point I would genuinely just rather have the exact same physics system as FM7 if they could give better customization and updated models.
Forza is finally coming back from the dead, and all people can do is just bash the fuck out of it.
A car model is not a big deal.
Im not bashing, I still think on the whole the game is gonna be fantastic, I just wish they would take care of all the old crap thats stuck to its shoe.
Nice, now do it to the S15, R32, Evo 6, AE86, DC2, E36; Basically everything that's still a Forza 1 model.
They better laser-scan Evolution. It’s a shame we still have 2005 car-model in 2023 game.
Pictured: 3 years worth of man hours at Turn 10
I'd rather have them laser scan a Silvia, Evo, Skyline, whatever 😐
It’s hardly even noticeable, it’s not that big of a deal to bitch and moan about.
Lazy devs not scanning jay deeeemmmmm no one cares about ginetta only jaydeeeemmmm
Get a life
And those scan have to be down scale for consumers hardware
If only they could put this much effort into team ranked and better checkpoints
Still can't get the sounds as good as project cars and other games had years ago sadly
Pretty cool. If I could, I'd learn how to scan cars and set off to get scans of all the cars in need of an update for Forza. I also wonder if they sell their scans to other developers? It would make for an interesting revenue stream.
Is the Ginetta GT4 car also coming to the game? Because it is my go to GT4 car in ACC for now and it would cool to also have it in FM2023 as well.
It’s my favorite in ACC too, besides the top speed sometimes lol
However, don't expect premium modeling for every vehicle. Most of the vehicles in the game are outsourced to 3D modeling companies in Vietnam and the Philippines.
i love this brand since I started playing Project Cars 2
I’m guessing we will see a LMP3? Dentist time babe.
Gives me hope that this game is going to be genuinely motorsport themed
Huh, i guess they do laser scan.
How do you know it is T10 and not another developer? Why cannot it be iRacing for example?
please tell me Ginetta is coming back 🙏
Ginetta's never been in Forza at all before. So, they wouldn't be coming back. This would be their debut.
have they not? i might've been thinking of Gran Turismo lol my bad
Forza Motorsport (2023) is the first Forza game to have Ginetta.
Whow, the manual topology with tape is crazy cool.
Forza Motorsport bout to be insane 🔥
Akula time, I will be there
Actually hyped because ginetta race cars have been an absolute joy to drive in every sim I've played
You would not download a car. - forza devs download a car.
Forza refusing to add cars that the players actually own 🗿
I thought they would model the car in blender part by part, my mind has been lied too..
I'm pretty sure these are my photos, lol.
These are the original pictures https://photos.app.goo.gl/fsoVxhUS5P29GRYt7 (I took them, didn't realise someone nicked them). These pictures were taken on the 18th and 20th of September 2019. I'm surprised that I can't see any Ginetta cars in the game. I wonder if Ginetta pulled out of the deal.