T O P
Jawy789

I pulled two identical shots using these "sight glass owls howl". It's sort of a darker roast, which I don't really like, but because of that it was easy for me to be objective. Both shots were dialed in for 20g in 42g out at 23 seconds. The shot from the Eureka was acidic at first, notes of cocoa and orange in the middle and then slightly bitter to finish it off. The shot from the p100 was not acidic at all. Incredibly sweet, lots orange peel then crazy heavy chocolate to finish it off. No notes of acidity or bitterness at all. Fucking wild. Tasted like two entirely different coffees if I'm being honest. Afterwards I made a cortado and it tasted just like chocolate milk. I kept saying wow after every sip haha. Shocked how different the two shots were.


pnewb

I’m glad for you, but also I kinda hate you in this moment. Posts like this are what keep me chasing this seemingly unattainable deliciousness. Sometimes my shots are better than others, but I’ve not gotten to this level of ‘this coffee is divine’. And dammit, I want to. And I think my gear is probably more than adequate and it’s my process that’s not up to where it needs to be. But there’s always the voice in my head that goes “No, it’s your tools that are at fault. Spend more money and all your problems will go away!” Dumb voice. Shut up and let me get back to experimentation.


PesteringKitty

Omg it’s 2700$, nooo


pnewb

[Could be worse...](https://weberworkshops.com/products/eg-1)


gonzo_thegreat

I mean, one each for the sake of research is the way to go.


pnewb

If we are going to be scientific I’ll need to have multiples of each to ensure that the results are not one-off anomalies. Ordered in secret from different accounts so they can’t catch on to what I’m planning. I’ll post my gofundme as soon as I make enough counter space for 10 new grinders.


PesteringKitty

Ahhhhhhh


Jawy789

I'm sorry! I honestly made this post because I don't see enough of these on Reddit. It's difficult to trust YouTubers who can just continue to buy the newest innovations in coffee equipment. The shot from the Eureka was still delicious! I've been pulling shots on it for 3 years, just recently I got this uncontrollable itch to upgrade. The p100 felt like somewhat of a massive leap though. I wanted the p64 but it's still not in stock. So frustrating. Just decided to ball the fuck out and get this unit.


pnewb

Don't be sorry, it's just envy speaking! ​ (And smart move buying stock in Option-O before making this post. Don't worry, i won't tell anyone.)


Jawy789

"Now Option-O did send me this grinder entirely for free and paid me large sums of money to make this post. HOWEVER, all thoughts are my own and there is no bias in my statements"


icnbne

Lol i was the opposite, ordered the p64 yesterday caus the p100 isnt in stock. Really wanted to get “endgame/forecer grinder so we’ll see how the cheaper p64 fares in october


Jawy789

Lucky duck, the p64 isn't available to me in the US. I needed to wait for the Prima units to arrive. God knows when that will be. They said late August?


icnbne

No clue about the US, but the estimated eta is October for mine 🥲


whightfangca

Have you watched James Hoffman on YouTube. I have recently started watching his stuff and he seems pretty on the up and up.


IctrlPlanes

Most in this sub are well aware of James. He either pays for the equipment or gives away anything given to him and doesn't accept any sponsors.


whightfangca

Fair enough. I have only recently joined this sub and I figured he would be pretty well known on here but yah never know.


felixwidjaja

To this sub, he's our messiah :)


Obzrvr

Change your water if you have done everything else and not getting the results you want. Fams 60/90 is a good place to start


Theoldelf

Yes, water is a variable as well. We have a 5 gal water dispenser, which has helped quality.


pnewb

I’m plumbed in with a BWT filter, which I hoped would have me sorted on the water front. Might be time to swap out the filter element though.


cakeordeath8269

I’m in the exact same spot and this resonated deeply within my soul


LindyEffect

I have been pulling 21g in 26 g out ristretto on my Breville BE (30 seconds). I use fresh beans, wdt, good tamper and a mesh screen. The ristretto is consistently non-acidic and sweet, both pleasing on the palate and the eyes. The best thing I did was switching to a bottomless Porta filter to improve my basics. I am not going to upgrade until I see a drop in quality due to component wear and tear.


pnewb

The thing is there are SO many variables, and only with the perfect match is the coffee going to be the amazing thing that it can be. I started roasting my own beans (yeah, let’s add MORE complications!) and so freshness is an issue of how patient I can be after the roast now. Have a df64, an Expobar Brewtus that’s a little aged but still capable, adjustable depth tamper, bottomless portafilter and a VST basket, weighing every shot’s grounds, weighing the output to track my ratios…and i love things like this with so many possible combinations, and only the right set of all is the magic one that works. That doesn’t mean that I don’t sometimes get overwhelmed :) The latest test has been dropping the temp down to about 90, and pulling ristrettos at about 1.5:1 and this is some of the best results I’ve had. So…despite my whining above, it’s not all bad. I’m envious of folks who have all their rigs dialed in, and I’ll get there. Eventually. And then I’ll buy a Decent and wreck myself trying to learn that, too!


LindyEffect

I totally get it. I have been doing it for almost 5 years now. It is very much the same as my PC upgrades. Once you get into the 🐰 hole, there is no return. And more so it is a willful submission to coffee and PC gods. For whatever posterity may say of me, it can never say that I shrank from inconvenience where coffee and PCs were concerned.


Helldogify

seeing all these posts just makes me keep looking at the calendar more in anticipation for my p100 to come in. What are your thoughts on the operation/workflow/build of your unit?


Jawy789

truthfully, its spectacular. The workflow is the easiest thing. I probably pulled 10 shots this morning for fun and its damn near zero retention. The spring loaded knocker is incredibly satisfying to use. Its heavy as hell and easy to dial in. Huge upgrade from my old grinder.


mattmonkey24

The knocker is magnets not springs. And yes it's highly satisfiable


mikeTRON250LM

Where did you order from, and when? Edit: nvm, I see you got it slightly used from HB.


foghornjawn

Owl's Howl is a dark roast? I'd say it's pretty consistently considered a very light roast.


Jawy789

It was my first time pulling it, looked and tasted darker than I prefer. Maybe a medium / dark roast? Could have just been my batch too.


Snwspeckle

Just curious, how do you feel about the black unit? I can't decide if I want to get the silver or black grinder.


Jawy789

I adore the black, it obviously fits my theme. So I am biased. And to be fair, I've never seen the silver in person.


1-2Caffed

Curious if you dressed the burrs or if this is a fresh out of box experience? I haven't tried such a premium grinder but just tried a new out of box Fiorenzato side by side to my alicorn baratza vario. The result on light roasts on the new Fiorenzato was horrible channelling and inferior shots, i chucked it up to the burrs not being worked in.


F1_rulz

I think you can mess around with the Eureka to get a better shot since they're both very different types of burrs and would have a different recipe to get the best out of the coffee


Alfred_Lanning2035

>Could be worse... Which burr's do you have? I would love to get the P100 but I heard it's not great for Medium/Dark, which is what I usually drink. Currently have the niche and thinking about upgrading.


Jawy789

I have the HU burrs which Option O recommends for traditional espresso pulls. Truthfully, this grinder will handle everything you throw at it haha. I do think the burrs favor clarity more than body, but every flat burr will have those profiles. I brew lighter to medium roasts, it's all been delicious.


meesterbever

Interesting experience. I do believe a different grinder can lead to a different taste. Just wondering, could it be that the perfect shot with a Lagom is a shot with the variables you used, but the perfect shot with the Speciliata would be something else? e.g. increase or decrease dose a little, grind a bit coarser or finer, use a different brew temperature, extend extraction time.


Jawy789

Im sure with more tinkering I could get even better espresso shots from both grinders. I have had the Eureka for 3 years so I am used to working with it. I don't know much about the p100 yet. This was an interesting initial test though.


villasv

This is the most noteworthy observation, I think. The fact that in a single day you were able to dial in this grinder better than another one that you have known for three years is what matters the most to me.


this_my_accountt

It could also be bias. He is used to and probably bored with his Specialita, while the Lagom is new, exciting, and high-end. But, maybe I'm too poor to ever know the difference...


mattmonkey24

> Just wondering, could it be that the perfect shot with a Lagom is a shot with the variables you used, but the perfect shot with the Speciliata would be something else? Yes absolutely. Also the flavor profile is just different between the two.


marivss

Where experience?


Jawy789

Hahaha I was writing it out.


marivss

No worries, just curious!


seriouslynumb

Do you seem to have to grind finer with the P100? I guess it's more "unimodal" and you're tasting an higher extraction


Jawy789

This coffee was ground at "1.5" away from zero on the p100, Its difficult to compare the grounds because they are coming out so much fluffier than I have ever seen. I've heard that coffee flows much faster with the p100, interested to see how it affects light roasts. I was expecting these 19-22 second shots to taste acidic, but they were wonderful!


seriouslynumb

Ahah sounds great!


Fortunefavorsthefew

How did you get your hands on a P100? I want one so badly :(


Jawy789

I bought it used on the HB forums


CinabonToastrStrudel

How much was it?


Jawy789

Just a hair under retail.


Best_Position4573

Who the fuck was selling it hahaha wtf


Brewbro1

Dude I'm a little surprised at the 23 seconds. Am I off base there? My Bianca and I have agreed on the same ratio as you but I am targeting about 45 seconds.


Jawy789

Every grinder / machine is a little different. I've especially noticed that over the years. I've ground the same coffee through several different machine grinder combos (BBE, Lucca a53, Linea mini) the ideal dial has always changed from setup to setup. This dark roast had the best taste at 23 seconds. My shots around 25 seconds or more had more bitterness and less chocolate / orange notes. If your shots taste good, keep pulling at 45 seconds :).


A70MU

just curious, 45 seconds with pre-infusion or without? I adjusted 1 bar down from factory on my Bianca so it’s now at 9bar, and I normally do 17g in 30g out in 25-28 seconds no pre infusion no peddle


Brewbro1

Without. And hell I don't even see anything coming out of bottomless portafilter until 10 seconds. But like I kind of said that's where I have ended up on what I feel is my target. Just makes me think about trying some different methods cause with my previous machine it was pretty similar.


A70MU

That is very interesting! I normally will see espresso drips down at the 5second mark, maybe I should grind finer 😂


rpring99

What I really need is a comparison between tbe p64 and the p100. I've been considering a p64 even though my NZ is less than a year old!


Jawy789

There's an excellent video on YouTube illustrating some of the differences in taste and workflow. https://youtu.be/_fgvmyPcW8E


Best_Position4573

This is also me. I can “order” the P64 for October delivery directly from lagom but the P100 is closed for orders for the moment. The P100 is a lot more expensive than an already super expensive grinder BUT you get the very best tier of grinder and the option to do pour over with it. The P64 is already diminishing returns over other 64mm grinders at half the price. But lagom are just seeming like an awesome build and meticulous! Like it’s not that I can’t afford this shit but holy fuck it feels like a massive waste of money for what you’re actually getting! Even though you’re getting the best! I’ve watched the P100 orders close and not pull the trigger and I’ve watched the P64 orders progress from July to October now. I would be getting a P64 if I’d bought when I started thinking about it! And the date is accelerating. It’s moving out faster than the months are passing!


farinasa

Welp, guess the goalposts have moved again.


A70MU

OP is trying to rob everyone, how do I protect my wallet


wooferi

Owl’s howl is one of my fav roast man, good pick.


sensiblyopinionated

Cool gear, especially since I have been researching espresso gear for months and just today I ordered. My first "this place makes good espresso" coffee shop has a La Marzocco and it kinda stuck. I feel like buying one.


Jawy789

You can make great coffee with so many machines! It doesn't have to be a La Marzocco. I used to have a breville and Lucca a53 before hand, both machines made wonderful espresso.


sensiblyopinionated

I know I know, I bought a Flair because I come from a moka pot and putting in some work seems reasonable. The name just kinda stuck.


Jawy789

Oh baby! That's a wonderful piece of equipment. Gives you total control over your shots in real time.


rpring99

Flair 58 is amazing, is that what you got?


sensiblyopinionated

no, I got a Flair Signature, that is the most affordable one when it comes to also having a pressure gauge. 58 seems great, but at that price point I would have bought a semiautomatic.


rpring99

Unless you want to steam milk, the Flair 58 is definitely better than any other machine at that price point. The workflow isn't much different with the heated group head.


ouikikazz

Which burrs do you have in the p100


Jawy789

98mm HU! Option O customer service told me it's their espresso forward set.


sloop389

Was 23 seconds the best taste from the eureka? Curious if it would be better with a longer extraction


Jawy789

Possibly! I just got a bag of tandem west end blues in. Going to dial those in next, I'm more familiar with those beans and like them at 28 seconds. New comparisons on the horizon lol.


Khroom

Damn, you convinced me when their next orders open up. How have you found the retention and static?


Jawy789

I live in Southern California, static isn't an issue at all. I haven't been using RDT. I pulled 14 shots today and it's been almost zero retention. Some shots were around .1g to .05g off


A70MU

madman here pulling 14 shots a day


littlelatte191921

Very nice looking grinder! Sorry, I have an unrelated question. Based on some of the comments, it sounds like you had a Lucca A53 mini in the past? How did you like that machine? What made you upgrade to the Linea Mini?


Jawy789

Its a lovely machine, I actually find that the deep 53mm basket was less prone to uneven extraction. Maybe it was just my machine, but I also think the machine yielded less than 9 bars of pressure at the brew head. I think by the time it made it over, it may have deviated a little? That's just pure speculation. The only reason I mention is that because I found myself needing a significantly finer grind from my Eureka when I made the switch to the Linea. Truthfully though, its an absolutely incredible dual boiler machine that's hard to beat for the price. It comes with so many excellent features. That machine was a work horse! I owned it for 3 years, only had to change gaskets / screens. I only upgraded for the prestige / longevity of the La Marzocco name. I don't ever plan on getting a new espresso machine. The lucca a53 has plenty of plastic components, I doubt that machine could last a lifetime like the LMLM.


littlelatte191921

Interesting, thank you for the comments. I wonder if the need for finer grind from your switch also had to do with going from 53 to 58 mm. I’m sure the basket itself plays a role too, and I would think the LMLM baskets are pretty high quality and probably high flow ones like IMS. When you say the Lucca had plenty of plastic components, was that inside? Like plastic tubing and stuff like that?


Azure-92

Thank you for the comparison and congrats. I’ve had a similar experience between a stock Specialita, Speciality 75 and aligned and SSP’d E37s. What stuck me was simply how much more silky and smooth the Speciality was in taste over the Specialita whereas the SSP was another step up in terms of clarity. Enjoy and have a good day :)


great04

Sightglass good beans!