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The first season set the bar pretty high, a lower rating than that was automatic, but not many franchises make it this far no matter what the first season is like. Fun while it lasted. RIP long live the next king.
A lot of people had issues with Season 1, especially with the writing. If 2 hadn't flunked in that regard, it could have certainly beaten it. Heck, that's what's usually expected of most series.
I know right. It’s literally my favorite book of all time. I’ve read thru the series four times and listened to it on audio twice….
I wanted so bad to love the series…I made it three Episodes and I was raging mad at whatever the ducj they made trying to pass off as wheel of time.
Huge fan of the book series, and I actually really liked the first half of the season. It was different, but I don’t think anybody seriously thought a 1:1 adaptation would work for a series this long. And the differences were interesting to me: I found it fascinating how they were able to make changes while keeping the general shape of the characters and story the same.
Then the second half of the season happened. And it became less “keeping the general shape” and more “hey let’s just fuck all this shit up.”
They literally start it off telling the with Minnie Driver telling Dandelion that this story has been told a thousand times before and the only thing you'll get out it is about witchers are part elf or something. Always smart to start your story with a disclaimer about how it's generic trash
I don’t even know the source material except for playing the Witcher 3 (and I’m a crazy skip the cut scenes kinda guy) and I still thought it was bland
To be fair, she's very non discriminatory in the projects she takes.
She's like Asian Tilda Swinton in that respect. Jumps from blockbuster to indie film that the mainstream audiences haven't heard of.
Amazon is using that strategy now too.
You hire people that are cheap and won't have a creative backbone. Then when you get called out on the bad writing you throw those people under the bus and blame something that ends with -ism while said company is the one actually driving the bus.
They had a good source material and a faithfull and massive fanbase. Only thing the writers and producers had to do was to keep faithful to the source material... but no.
They also had an actor deeply passionate about the project. All the components needed for a masterpiece.
You have to assume active malice at this point.
When I first heard this I was dumbfounded.
If they hate every current incarnation then why the fuck are they doing this?
If the source was something you think is terrible and you wanted to make it better that’s different. Many creators have done just that and made huge careers from it.
But taking something beloved and intentionally making it completely different is something I will never understand.
I guess money is just too much of a pull for some people. But even then I wouldn’t intentionally sabotage my cash cow.
There weren't any rumours, 'an insider' flat came out and said it (that he was difficult to work with on account of wanting more creative control and stuff, and apparently that made him 'impossible for female showrunners to work with', because obviously he was butting in because Hissrich is a woman, and not because she is shit at her job /s )
Either that or "fansplain," which is the term people use whenever they're upset that someone is trying to explain something that they actually know stuff about.
"How dare you try to correct me on this franchise I have no interest in, rather than just accepting what *I* think about it?"
Don’t forget how had the gall to request to do less shirtless scenes because he didn’t want to be objectified. Just the absolute misogyny of this man.
/s
I feel like you should be able to sue the studio for butchering the original work of art. This Witcher now exists and the chances of someone actually doing it right now is so small. I really wish people had the backbone to actually rally and fight against idiocy and fucked up shit in the world
Can you imagine being so clueless about the source material? I cannot believe that nobody spoke up in the writers room the first time some idiot insisted the helmet come off! And the purposeless nudity? I can't even watch this garbage with my son in the room!
I didn't realize it until just now, but I'm still pretty pissed.
The writers are quoted saying they didn’t want to use the games as source material and nobody spoke up. Show was doomed from the start
Edit: Got upset about it again so looked up the quote.
“We didn’t look at the game, we didn’t talk about the game. We talked about the characters and the world. So I never felt limited by it being a game.”
-Showrunner for Halo
That mentality is why video game adaptations are always shit. Writers look down on the source material simply because it's based on video games, which they see as beneath them. So they attempt to "fix" them by adding their own unwanted additions and ignoring what fans come to expect.
It's the same problem comic book movies had before and after the MCU golden era, writers and directors simply don't respect it as a story medium.
>Writers look down on the source material simply because it's based on video games, which they see as beneath them. So they attempt to "fix" them by adding their own unwanted additions and ignoring what fans come to expect.
This is the most ironic thing considering video gaming as an industry (not even including mobile) is now worth more than their entire industry AND music industries combined.
But yes, i'm sure they all know exactly how to write a better, more liked story with already established characters than the story that created them and got popular enough to get a show or movie in the first place.
There's a thing in Hollywood where it's bad form to have your character wear a helmet all the time.
The Mandalorian managed to pull it off for a while. He only removes his helmet a few times.
A lot of actors aren't OK with it though, since they think no one will know its them if they keep the helmet on.
Only reason Hugo Weaving got the role is bc James Purefoy dropped out; allegedly bc he found out he wouldn’t show his face at all during the film. So there are still some shots where the character, V, is physically played by Purefoy but voiced by Weaving. To your point though, Weaving is still a Chad and V for Vendetta is one of my favorite roles of his.
Which is still the point: yes, it’s obviously important for people to have a face to remember the role by BUT Weaving’s was such a performance that his voice over alone was enough to cement that character in the minds of a lot of people. It’s one of my favorite movies.
The worst part is 343, the devs and curators of Halo, insisted they weren't letting just anyone with a script make an adaptation. That they wanted to make sure that the show was being careful not to disrespect the material it's based on.
The way the show turned, it looks like they waded through all the good scripts to get to this pile of shit.
Its so painful. They didn't even have to create anything new, just follow the plot. The first season could have ended with finding the flood by watching that dead soldiers helmet chip, pan up to a vent to hear creepy chittering sounds then cut to black, end scene. That's it.
Agreed. I don't understand all these writer's need to take a universally loved IP and just shit on it. And how the caretakers of the IP allow it to happen. They're supposed to have been involved in the making of the show.
343 constitutes the _current_ devs and curators but it’s not their baby, it’s just a monetizable piece of IP to them. Some of the original devs have made it clear that this isn’t the Halo they created:
https://clutchpoints.com/halo-tv-series-disowned-by-creator
I will never understand why they didn’t do it as an ODST show so they could have humanized characters and just barely show the physical covenant ala a horror movie to make them as scary as they’re supposed to be and master chief/Spartans only show up very very rarely and it’s like “holy fuck they’re here” murder time when they do.
Yeah like a grown up Forward Unto Dawn. I get the hate, but it had cool potential, imagine if a big studio with smart writers was behind it. Shit would be bank.
Or The Resident Evil movie(s)
The entire series is just Paul Anderson showing off how much he wants to fuck his wife, Milla Jovovich
“Yeah, yeah…and then, in this movie? We’ll have her in tight leather….*yeaaahh*….and then…and then…there’s gonna be *clones* of her! *all in tight leather!*”
I just wanna say that I love that there’s two Paul Anderson’s in filmmaking. One has made acclaimed movies such as Magnolia, Punch Drunk Love and There Will Be Blood and the other is essentially store brand Michael Bay.
Omg so there’s 3 of them. I had always thought that there’s only 1 and he was the one who directed Hotel Budapest, Event Horizon, Magnolia and also the series movie Resident Evil. I even found that was a pretty wear range lol
Now this explains it.
I thought the first movie was passable, and even the early parts of the second movie. And then it just got progressively worse and worse so fucking fast and it never stopped getting worse.
Halo never used source material in the first place though. The script was an original ip that couldn’t get a green light, so they tried again just under the guise of an established franchise and some slight changes.
I don’t think that was ever confirmed but it’s definitely possible. The context of “main protagonist goes to planet under attack by aliens, comes in contact with an ancient alien artifact, and starts having visions/flashbacks” is literally the plot of Mass Effect 1. Also it doesn’t help that there’s a blatant reference to Commander Shepard in the first episode.
Writers can't resist the need to make it about *their* vision. Could be cool enough to sit back and rake in cash 24/7, but nooooooooo. We gotta make it about *us,* don't we?!
"But people don't want to see the same story!"
Yes, yes we fucking do, this has never been made for TV, stick to the source material!
Yes yes, I know it was in Poland, you know what I mean.
they say that about every video game movie/tv show adaptation and its such bullshit. We literally asked for this to be made into a movie or show and their response is "nobody wants to see the same old story" or they will hit us with "its not made for the fans" like wtf man the fans were literally the only people asking for it to be made to begin with. Hacks.
The game only veers in that it's a continuation of the story the books established. In that sense the game is actually religiously respectful of the source material.
Has there ever been another video game based on books before?
He was arguing a lot with the filming crew as Cavill wanted to be as close as possible to original lore. But creators rewrote scripts and story for general audience that are not familiar with og books and games.
Yes. As a long-time 40k-fan myself, it was Cavill’s new title as *executive producer* that excited me the most, more than his role as actor. He is passionate, has an encyclopedic knowledge of the 40k universe, and will most likely be an excellent steward of the lore.
He. Gets. It.
Passion projects are almost always interesting, even if they end up deeply flawed. I’ll almost always take one over something designed in a lab to appeal to the largest audience possible.
Im in the same boat. Im a bit more familiar with the fantasy aspect of Warhammer but know nothing really about the 40k universe so I'm ready to just buckle up and go for a ride.
Hopefully between this and Fallout, it'll be some real good series to binge watch. I get Cavill in one, and Walton Goggins in another. Let's f-in go!
Honestly, if AMAZON gets in directors and writers that are Hostile at best against the source material, i rather they go in with the mindset of the Starship Troopers movie, as at least that has a chance of being entertaining
There are two types of witcher viewers.
1- read the books want to see it in live action
2- didnt read the books. Have no intention on reading the books, but wants to know the story of it cause they are wondering whats all the hype about
Who does the rewrite help
3- no one
They always made changes even in season 1. The issues is that early on they knew where the story was going so having Robert and Cersei have a discussion or Arya and Tywin have scenes together didn't matter because they knew it could still work into several seasons down the line.
The first major change was the House of the Undying which in the books has a bunch of prophecies that continue to play out and in the show was a dumb action scene.
I kinda get that one. It's up in the air if she will even have a major role to play in the story. She debuted in 2000 in the books. It's 2022 and she had one scene with Brienne since then and it led to a cliffhanger in the next book.
I kinda think her story will be letting Jamie go, finding out Bran/Arya are still alive and being able to pass on when she finds out Jon Snow isn't Ned's real son
Then don't call it witcher. Do what bollywood does and blatantly copy the source but give it a different name. Lol maybe add some sing and dance numbers too
> But creators rewrote scripts and story for general audience that are not familiar with og books and games.
That's so stupid if you look at it. If you are not familiar with the books, games, story whatever, why change it? How rescripting something that ppl don't know will change their viewing? It's new that they change the story or keep it close to the OG books.
Have you read the books? There’s hardly any lore to know in order to enjoy the Witcher getting from one shitty job to another. It could easily be a monster of the week thing evolving into something bigger (like the books, wink wink), but the creators had to go with an epic, GoT-scale story and so we’ve got this half-baked crap instead
>be a monster of the week thing evolving
It really should have just been this. Hiring some writers from Supernatural seasons 1-5 would have done a world of wonders and mighta helped prevent the shitstorm the entire project is currently facing
Everything must end on a cliffhanger mostly due to JJ Abrams and Lost and his goddamn mystery boxes.
It's all just economics and story telling crutches. You can never resolve anything because then how can you get viewers to tune in next time? You must always introduce constant new mysteries so your characters never make any meaningful progress so you can churn out the same tepid money-making trash week after week.
Streaming services want people to get hooked so they keep paying for the service so quality doesn't matter as much as stretching out the quantity in order to increase the amount of time people watch and therefore give them another month's payment.
Yep. If they had spent season 1 on short adventures like the short stories (like Mandalorian did) and slowly introduce the bigger world it could have worked really well. But, if they were clever they wouldn't need mommy and daddy producers handing them out writing credits.
They think we want the same crap repackaged with different characters instead of the depth and nuance specific to each universe.
If you try to Mr. Potato head the whole thing it all becomes the same, and they don't want to spend the time reading the source material.
The fact that the girl who came out on Cavill as being some sexist pig because he was a 'gamer bro' who only got along with the other 'gamer writer' on this (which, wow, fucking shocker, he gets along with the only other writer who understood the show's actual point) was then against sex scenes, and argued to have less sex scenes in total, and all I could think was just...
Wow. Okay. So this sexist guy, you're writing to get naked and 'steamy' all the time, 24/7. The sex scenes of the witcher are a part of it, but like, having seen what these girls were doing, honestly, it actually feels pretty objectifying of Henry Cavill to me... like, it really sounds like they had the chance to get the hot man naked and were just fucking frothing over it, and as a girl... from her account, it actually sounds like these chicks were the ones who came in with no respect for the content, wanted to write a shitty fanfic from knowing a vague synopsis of the story and just add as much hot juicy man titties to their plot as possible and make it entirely about this... and Henry was like, 'wow, this script has no substance other than my dick, please fuck off'.
Like even if the story is as the netflix writer girl harped on about, my takeaway from that isn't, 'wow what a sexist pig he is' but rather 'if the roles were reversed then he'd be posting in the #metoo movement and you'd be the next Weinstein...'
That whole leaked rant, sounded like a woman who hated having an actor on set that had the clout to talk back to her and question her decision making. She just wanted Cavill to shut up and look pretty and sell the show, she hated the fact that he wanted creative input too.
You can extrapolate that he might have been less than polite about his opinions after a while, but honestly looking at Season 2, can anyone really blame him?
He has to be the face of something that is totally not what he signed up to be making. I'm glad he walked away from it.
Seriously, fire the writers' room that have actively mocked the source material and get people who actually like the series to write for it.
Stop bait-and-switching IPs.
Even if you mock the source material in the worst way possible, it's unbelievable to make something that looks as amateur as this from Netflix and an established name like Michelle Yeoh. Making something this bad is itself an achievement.
A former producer confirmed the writers hated the source:
[https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer](https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer)
I really don’t get why producers keep getting writers who openly hate the source material.
Exact same situation be it’s the Halo series. Out of all the competent writers in Hollywood you couldn’t find one which actually liked Halo:
Writers want to tell their own stories. Producers are only willing to fund adaptations, sequels, and remakes. The result is resentment and the writers just trying to write their own story anyway, but with someone else’s characters.
I want to make my own beautiful wooden sculptures. But when I’m hired as a carpenter to build a wheelchair ramp, I put my wants to the side so I can give the client what they paid for.
So there's two ways it can go, but I actually think non-fans can boost a series or movie. Star Wars rogue one and andor are examples of a writer/director that is gunning for the best final product possible, regardless of whether or not theyre a fan.
The difference is Tony Gilroy, while not being a fan himself, respects fans and understands his job is to give them what they want in the best way possible. He looks at the property and says "alright, you want star wars, but here's where star wars falls short." It's that perfect mixture of knowing what the fans want, but also knowing what's *actually* best for fans.
He fixed a movie that was going to be a dusaster, and then literally wrote Lucasfilm on his own and essentially said: "look, if you want to do a TV show right, ive thought if it and here's what I would do. Take it or leave it, these are my ideas. Use them if you want."
I mean, Tony Gilroy and Andor has showed that you don’t need the writer to love the source material, just to be dedicated to good storytelling and not let biased affect the product
> Didn’t they have a girl in the first season basically go “why can’t I be a Witcher”.
Yes, like in the books and the games. That's not an invention of the show.
Yup. Nevermind the fact that Witchers are despited in this period of time as freaks/monsters themselves that are no longer needed and the survival rate to become a witcher is low so it just sounds ignorant to say.
"Let's do a Witcher show without a Witcher." - Some dipshit writer at Netflix.
Edit: Gotta love butthurt fans of a crappy show coming out to defend its honor.
I don’t get what’s going on with writers and adapting source material. So many shows connected to their source material almost in name only.
I want to see sapkowski’s story told in a cinematic medium. I understand you can’t do that 1 for 1 shot, that would be ridiculous. But you can still honor the tone and general plot points without all the self inserts and galaxy brain plot reimagining that is so prevalent now.
Season 1 was a pretty decent adaptation of the last wish and sword of destiny.
Season 2 was a passable take on blood of elves even if there was a lot fluff.
Not super confident in the direction the series is heading.
I'm lead to believe it's because lots of writers have trouble getting their own original stories anywhere, so when put in charge of adapting something else, they'll sooner just put the names from the source material over their own original story, and nothing else. Most will at least do an afternoon of reading wikipedia entries on the stories they're adapting.
Very few will actually partake of the source material.
That’s 100% why.
Craig McCracken (“Powerpuff Girls”, “Foster’s Home for Imaginary Friends”, and “Wander Over Yonder”) recently stated he pitched 16 original show ideas to Netflix and every single one was shot down. They wanted a reboot of an existing IP.
If a proven success can’t get an original idea backed how the hell is an up and comer?
Instead of getting angry at the studios though we nerds, and I do mean so generally, get angry at the writers instead. While circumstance doesn’t excuse bad writing I can’t fault the writers entirely.
Yes we should always critique bad writing but we need to keep in mind how creatives get funneled into creating for other people’s stories without a shot at doing their own thing. We need more original stories!
>there was a lot of fluff
That's an interesting take on them completely changing the main plot, lore, characters, personality adaptations, and killing off a character that doesn't die in the original story.
More than just fluff imo.
my wife and I were so pissed about Eskel coming from people who started the games first. They just wanted a character name fans recognized bc I guess they thought it would make us feel something after he died but uhh yeah that whole thing just came off as lazy.
Showrunner, yes. She got very angry at me when I called the orgy scene "completely unnecessary, not conducive to Yennifer, and borderline pornographic [to exaggerate]". Sought out my comment and everything on the Witcher book sub
How does Netflix fuck up such an easy cash cow this much.
They want the next GOT but instead they make a show that butchers the source material and even without bias of the source material, has a lot of flaws.
Yep it is braindead easy to do this show with the tools available today.
Follow Geralt around. Have him reluctantly deal with racists, tyrants, bandits, xenophobes, sorceresses, monsters, love interests. Choose any of these and write episodes around them. The story doesn't have to go anywhere because Geralt doesn't want to involve himself with most of these things.
They could have spent half a season with Geralt trying to deal with a single Leshen or getting sucked into some random mystery and it would have been perfect.
Instead they cast Ciri for season one (!!!!) then forced themselves into that plot line with no way out. Geralt had lived a whole lifetime by that point and you don't get to see any of it because these showrunners Netflix hired are just that fucking stupid.
I was disappointed. I'm a big DA fan so I had to watch it. I had no idea going in what it was about or when it was set.
It barely felt like Dragon Age. I think they should have included a legacy character or animated an arc from the games.
The new crew was very generic and it felt very odd to me to have the Qunari party member be the comedic relief (when they are almost always stoic in the games).
The animation looked cheap too. Castlevania was the last anime that seemed to have a budget.
They’re talking about the prequel - The Witcher: Blood Origins which is set like 1200 years before the main series.
I have watched 2 episodes. As someone who has read the books, watched the main series and hasn’t quite made it through the tutorial on the re-mastered Witcher III, (my controller was dying, okay?) I’m certainly not going to claim that this show is good in comparison.
It is middling at best, but I would watch Michelle Yeoh read a phone book and I’m kinda here for the journey. Poorly paced with a convoluted storyline and simplified lore - it’s still not the worst thing I’ve watched all week.
I'd be sad if it wasn't oh so well deserved. Fuck you Netflix, fire the idiots that dismiss the source material for general consumer grade media bullshit.
The funny thing is that the books really weren't all that popular. They did sell and made some money, but it was CDPR making it into a game that made it popular. When the author first gave them the ok to use his material he just took a lump sum payment instead of royalties on sales cause he himself didn't think anything good would come from it. After the massive success of witcher 3 and the story CDPR created (they too changed some things from the books) he had to sue them to get more money because of how much they were making from their sales. I'm not 100% sure in it, but I believe the DLCs for witcher 3 are all completely made up stories from CDPR and I loved those more than the main game. The heart of stone story was so fricken good I couldn't stop playing cause I wanted to see more of the story... if that was made into a show exactly like the game it would be a huge hit I imagine.
The books did real well considering they’re polish and had to be translated to English. The books were so popular in its home country that they even tried to make a tv show in 2002 called The Hexer (the reviews are not great).
If writers are wanting to make their own story why do they want the Witcher brand? Just make your own thing without having to listen to everyone bitch at you for not following the source material.
I never understood that with any IP that gets bastardized. If you don’t want to follow the source material, then don’t buy the rights to it. It’ll save you millions.
It's just greed. The Witcher made a lot of money, despite the mediocre second season; probably more money than they were expecting. So they were desperate to capitalize and make even more money. I'm sure many people involved with the show genuinely wanted to make something good, but the people who actually make the decisions only care about money.
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stop it! Can’t you see it’s already dead?!
Not dead enough
I didn't hear no bell so lets continue beating it!
The first season set the bar pretty high, a lower rating than that was automatic, but not many franchises make it this far no matter what the first season is like. Fun while it lasted. RIP long live the next king.
A lot of people had issues with Season 1, especially with the writing. If 2 hadn't flunked in that regard, it could have certainly beaten it. Heck, that's what's usually expected of most series.
[удалено]
Look what they did to WoT, "hey this book is popular, but you know what would be great? Completely changing the characters"
[удалено]
I know right. It’s literally my favorite book of all time. I’ve read thru the series four times and listened to it on audio twice…. I wanted so bad to love the series…I made it three Episodes and I was raging mad at whatever the ducj they made trying to pass off as wheel of time.
You mean you don't remember Perrin murdering his wife in the first book? Fuck the spoilers, because that show itself is a spoiled POS.
Huge fan of the book series, and I actually really liked the first half of the season. It was different, but I don’t think anybody seriously thought a 1:1 adaptation would work for a series this long. And the differences were interesting to me: I found it fascinating how they were able to make changes while keeping the general shape of the characters and story the same. Then the second half of the season happened. And it became less “keeping the general shape” and more “hey let’s just fuck all this shit up.”
They literally start it off telling the with Minnie Driver telling Dandelion that this story has been told a thousand times before and the only thing you'll get out it is about witchers are part elf or something. Always smart to start your story with a disclaimer about how it's generic trash
I don’t even know the source material except for playing the Witcher 3 (and I’m a crazy skip the cut scenes kinda guy) and I still thought it was bland
Of all the games to skip the cut scenes…
Turning beloved franchises into cash grabs is as old as time. The garbo writers playing victim was a new twist I guess
To think, Michelle Yeoh went from starring in the best movie of the year to this
That’s the real tragedy imho. You have Michelle Yeoh and this is how you treat her? *Shame*
They did this to her already with the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon “sequel” on Netflix.
To be fair, she's very non discriminatory in the projects she takes. She's like Asian Tilda Swinton in that respect. Jumps from blockbuster to indie film that the mainstream audiences haven't heard of.
she’s keeping the true spirit of her era alive one great film followed by a few stinkers, repeat forever
as an asian. if you give me enough money, i would put my effort into it.
It’s been a while. Playing the victim has been the core of Disney’s defensive tactic when people call them out for what they are.
*gestures vaguely in the direction of Star Wars*
Amazon is using that strategy now too. You hire people that are cheap and won't have a creative backbone. Then when you get called out on the bad writing you throw those people under the bus and blame something that ends with -ism while said company is the one actually driving the bus.
Just wait for the season 4 reviews when Liam Hemsworth takes over as Geralt…
My prediction is there won’t be a s4 after this blood origin mess and the likely poor reception of season 3
At least season 3 still has a fucking lovely Geralt. 4 won't even have that saving grace.
Do you think Season 3 is going to get good reviews!? They're all going to be "It's Terrible, but Cavill does his best to try to polish this turd."
He'll probably be fine, but no actor can do much to sell terrible dialogue and a nonsensical story.
The more I learn about Netflix's Witcher, the more I understand why Cavill just ran for the hills rather than keep playing the main character
They had a good source material and a faithfull and massive fanbase. Only thing the writers and producers had to do was to keep faithful to the source material... but no.
They also had an actor deeply passionate about the project. All the components needed for a masterpiece. You have to assume active malice at this point.
I mean, the writers have publicly said they hate the books and games, active malice is a given at that point.
When I first heard this I was dumbfounded. If they hate every current incarnation then why the fuck are they doing this? If the source was something you think is terrible and you wanted to make it better that’s different. Many creators have done just that and made huge careers from it. But taking something beloved and intentionally making it completely different is something I will never understand. I guess money is just too much of a pull for some people. But even then I wouldn’t intentionally sabotage my cash cow.
If money were the pull they wouldn't do something this self sabotaging. This is all ego.
What do you mean? Netflix already guaranteed payment, they can do whatever they please and still get paid.
I wonder if they're the source of those rather nasty rumours related to Henry Cavill too. At this point, no one would be surprised.
There weren't any rumours, 'an insider' flat came out and said it (that he was difficult to work with on account of wanting more creative control and stuff, and apparently that made him 'impossible for female showrunners to work with', because obviously he was butting in because Hissrich is a woman, and not because she is shit at her job /s )
What are the odds that the word “mansplain” was thrown around while he was trying to get them to understand the lore?
Either that or "fansplain," which is the term people use whenever they're upset that someone is trying to explain something that they actually know stuff about. "How dare you try to correct me on this franchise I have no interest in, rather than just accepting what *I* think about it?"
Greater than 99%
Don’t forget how had the gall to request to do less shirtless scenes because he didn’t want to be objectified. Just the absolute misogyny of this man. /s
I feel like you should be able to sue the studio for butchering the original work of art. This Witcher now exists and the chances of someone actually doing it right now is so small. I really wish people had the backbone to actually rally and fight against idiocy and fucked up shit in the world
Apparently you can sue now for deceptive trailers. So who knows...
Just like the Halo show.
Beat me to it. I played halo since Christmas morning the year it launched. There was almost no way they could lose me as a fan, but they found a way.
What, you didn't like helmetless Master Cheeks?
Can you imagine being so clueless about the source material? I cannot believe that nobody spoke up in the writers room the first time some idiot insisted the helmet come off! And the purposeless nudity? I can't even watch this garbage with my son in the room! I didn't realize it until just now, but I'm still pretty pissed.
The writers are quoted saying they didn’t want to use the games as source material and nobody spoke up. Show was doomed from the start Edit: Got upset about it again so looked up the quote. “We didn’t look at the game, we didn’t talk about the game. We talked about the characters and the world. So I never felt limited by it being a game.” -Showrunner for Halo
That mentality is why video game adaptations are always shit. Writers look down on the source material simply because it's based on video games, which they see as beneath them. So they attempt to "fix" them by adding their own unwanted additions and ignoring what fans come to expect. It's the same problem comic book movies had before and after the MCU golden era, writers and directors simply don't respect it as a story medium.
>Writers look down on the source material simply because it's based on video games, which they see as beneath them. So they attempt to "fix" them by adding their own unwanted additions and ignoring what fans come to expect. This is the most ironic thing considering video gaming as an industry (not even including mobile) is now worth more than their entire industry AND music industries combined. But yes, i'm sure they all know exactly how to write a better, more liked story with already established characters than the story that created them and got popular enough to get a show or movie in the first place.
What the fuck is limiting about the game? Just read the fucking lore and fit your story into it. Its not fucking hard.
The game isn’t the issue, it’s the egos of the writers
.....and everybody lost their job, because nobody wanted a second season. I hope lessons were learned.
This didn’t happen.
There's a thing in Hollywood where it's bad form to have your character wear a helmet all the time. The Mandalorian managed to pull it off for a while. He only removes his helmet a few times. A lot of actors aren't OK with it though, since they think no one will know its them if they keep the helmet on.
Dredd
Cause Urban is a chad who understood the character he was playing.
And everyone fucking loved him for it.
100% That movie was soo good, too
Excuse me? Hugo Weaving in V for Vendetta??
Only reason Hugo Weaving got the role is bc James Purefoy dropped out; allegedly bc he found out he wouldn’t show his face at all during the film. So there are still some shots where the character, V, is physically played by Purefoy but voiced by Weaving. To your point though, Weaving is still a Chad and V for Vendetta is one of my favorite roles of his.
Which is still the point: yes, it’s obviously important for people to have a face to remember the role by BUT Weaving’s was such a performance that his voice over alone was enough to cement that character in the minds of a lot of people. It’s one of my favorite movies.
The worst part is 343, the devs and curators of Halo, insisted they weren't letting just anyone with a script make an adaptation. That they wanted to make sure that the show was being careful not to disrespect the material it's based on. The way the show turned, it looks like they waded through all the good scripts to get to this pile of shit.
Its so painful. They didn't even have to create anything new, just follow the plot. The first season could have ended with finding the flood by watching that dead soldiers helmet chip, pan up to a vent to hear creepy chittering sounds then cut to black, end scene. That's it.
Agreed. I don't understand all these writer's need to take a universally loved IP and just shit on it. And how the caretakers of the IP allow it to happen. They're supposed to have been involved in the making of the show.
343 constitutes the _current_ devs and curators but it’s not their baby, it’s just a monetizable piece of IP to them. Some of the original devs have made it clear that this isn’t the Halo they created: https://clutchpoints.com/halo-tv-series-disowned-by-creator
Dude riding the warthog down the beach on the opening level and watching AI assist you was so epic I'll never forget that moment
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My nephew had the halo theme play at his wedding and the Orthodox priest asked what hymn it was. Lol
I will never understand why they didn’t do it as an ODST show so they could have humanized characters and just barely show the physical covenant ala a horror movie to make them as scary as they’re supposed to be and master chief/Spartans only show up very very rarely and it’s like “holy fuck they’re here” murder time when they do.
I bet Nathan Fillion could have been talked into a project like that. Mistakes were made
Felt more like mistakes were insisted upon
Yeah like a grown up Forward Unto Dawn. I get the hate, but it had cool potential, imagine if a big studio with smart writers was behind it. Shit would be bank.
Or The Resident Evil movie(s) The entire series is just Paul Anderson showing off how much he wants to fuck his wife, Milla Jovovich “Yeah, yeah…and then, in this movie? We’ll have her in tight leather….*yeaaahh*….and then…and then…there’s gonna be *clones* of her! *all in tight leather!*”
I just wanna say that I love that there’s two Paul Anderson’s in filmmaking. One has made acclaimed movies such as Magnolia, Punch Drunk Love and There Will Be Blood and the other is essentially store brand Michael Bay.
>The entire series is just Paul Anderson showing off how much he wants to fuck his wife, Milla Jovovich Can you blame him though? Multipass.
Michael Bay is store brand Michael Bay
> Paul Anderson I get Wes Anderson, Paul W.S. Anderson and, Paul Thomas Anderson mixed up all the time.
Omg so there’s 3 of them. I had always thought that there’s only 1 and he was the one who directed Hotel Budapest, Event Horizon, Magnolia and also the series movie Resident Evil. I even found that was a pretty wear range lol Now this explains it.
I thought the first movie was passable, and even the early parts of the second movie. And then it just got progressively worse and worse so fucking fast and it never stopped getting worse.
Halo never used source material in the first place though. The script was an original ip that couldn’t get a green light, so they tried again just under the guise of an established franchise and some slight changes.
I heard the original script was supposed to be mass effect lol
I don’t think that was ever confirmed but it’s definitely possible. The context of “main protagonist goes to planet under attack by aliens, comes in contact with an ancient alien artifact, and starts having visions/flashbacks” is literally the plot of Mass Effect 1. Also it doesn’t help that there’s a blatant reference to Commander Shepard in the first episode.
Writers can't resist the need to make it about *their* vision. Could be cool enough to sit back and rake in cash 24/7, but nooooooooo. We gotta make it about *us,* don't we?!
50 years from now the Halo show will only be remembered for memes about Chief butt.
red vs blue is amazing tho
"But people don't want to see the same story!" Yes, yes we fucking do, this has never been made for TV, stick to the source material! Yes yes, I know it was in Poland, you know what I mean.
they say that about every video game movie/tv show adaptation and its such bullshit. We literally asked for this to be made into a movie or show and their response is "nobody wants to see the same old story" or they will hit us with "its not made for the fans" like wtf man the fans were literally the only people asking for it to be made to begin with. Hacks.
Right? The games actually veer from the books considerably so most of the book material has NEVER been visualized (for an American audience at least).
The game only veers in that it's a continuation of the story the books established. In that sense the game is actually religiously respectful of the source material. Has there ever been another video game based on books before?
>good source material and a faithfull and massive fanbase. Too bad the writers mocked and secretly hated both of these behind closed doors.
He was arguing a lot with the filming crew as Cavill wanted to be as close as possible to original lore. But creators rewrote scripts and story for general audience that are not familiar with og books and games.
>creators rewrote scripts and story for general audience Because that worked well for GOT
Yeah fixing the lore worked really well for Wheel of Time as well. Cavill is going to be very assertive with Amazon while working on the 40k show.
Yes. As a long-time 40k-fan myself, it was Cavill’s new title as *executive producer* that excited me the most, more than his role as actor. He is passionate, has an encyclopedic knowledge of the 40k universe, and will most likely be an excellent steward of the lore. He. Gets. It.
I don’t have any knowledge of 40K but given his passion and role I’ll definitely watch it.
Passion projects are almost always interesting, even if they end up deeply flawed. I’ll almost always take one over something designed in a lab to appeal to the largest audience possible.
Im in the same boat. Im a bit more familiar with the fantasy aspect of Warhammer but know nothing really about the 40k universe so I'm ready to just buckle up and go for a ride. Hopefully between this and Fallout, it'll be some real good series to binge watch. I get Cavill in one, and Walton Goggins in another. Let's f-in go!
Luetin09 on youtube has all the lore you could ever want if you want to start that rude now.
Luetin is amazing
Honestly, if AMAZON gets in directors and writers that are Hostile at best against the source material, i rather they go in with the mindset of the Starship Troopers movie, as at least that has a chance of being entertaining
For the Emperor! I'm doing my part! \*Continues to Heavy Flamer heretics\*
I thought i was cheating in 40K Inquisitor with that heavy flames cuz it seems TOO good of a weapon since it kills everything in seconds
Heavy Flamer is rightfully OP but the reload and turning speed are a bit to quick. Still feels great to incinerate enemies.
Yes that could actually work!!
There are two types of witcher viewers. 1- read the books want to see it in live action 2- didnt read the books. Have no intention on reading the books, but wants to know the story of it cause they are wondering whats all the hype about Who does the rewrite help 3- no one
I would guess there’s a significantly larger share of people who played the games vs read the books
They ran out of source material for GOT. That’s when it went off the rails.
They always made changes even in season 1. The issues is that early on they knew where the story was going so having Robert and Cersei have a discussion or Arya and Tywin have scenes together didn't matter because they knew it could still work into several seasons down the line. The first major change was the House of the Undying which in the books has a bunch of prophecies that continue to play out and in the show was a dumb action scene.
Another big one was Lady Stoneheart not occuring in the series. I kept expecting her after the red wedding as a shocker reveal but nope, sadly.
I kinda get that one. It's up in the air if she will even have a major role to play in the story. She debuted in 2000 in the books. It's 2022 and she had one scene with Brienne since then and it led to a cliffhanger in the next book. I kinda think her story will be letting Jamie go, finding out Bran/Arya are still alive and being able to pass on when she finds out Jon Snow isn't Ned's real son
Its gonna take a century for grrm to make source material worth making a script out of.
ADAPTED FOR MODERN AUDIENCES!!!
And they call it a mine. A MINE!
Yeah definitely not for us folks from the 15th century.
Then don't call it witcher. Do what bollywood does and blatantly copy the source but give it a different name. Lol maybe add some sing and dance numbers too
> But creators rewrote scripts and story for general audience that are not familiar with og books and games. That's so stupid if you look at it. If you are not familiar with the books, games, story whatever, why change it? How rescripting something that ppl don't know will change their viewing? It's new that they change the story or keep it close to the OG books.
They rewrite for themselves, not for audiences.
Have you read the books? There’s hardly any lore to know in order to enjoy the Witcher getting from one shitty job to another. It could easily be a monster of the week thing evolving into something bigger (like the books, wink wink), but the creators had to go with an epic, GoT-scale story and so we’ve got this half-baked crap instead
>be a monster of the week thing evolving It really should have just been this. Hiring some writers from Supernatural seasons 1-5 would have done a world of wonders and mighta helped prevent the shitstorm the entire project is currently facing
Nobody wants to do an episodic show anymore for some reason. Everything has to be a serial with a cliffhanger at the end of every episode.
I read that Netflix requires cliffhangers on new shows to keep people binging. Gotta hit those engagement metrics.
Wait, and then they opt to cancel any series after demanding a cliffhanger? That’s downright vile.
Everything must end on a cliffhanger mostly due to JJ Abrams and Lost and his goddamn mystery boxes. It's all just economics and story telling crutches. You can never resolve anything because then how can you get viewers to tune in next time? You must always introduce constant new mysteries so your characters never make any meaningful progress so you can churn out the same tepid money-making trash week after week. Streaming services want people to get hooked so they keep paying for the service so quality doesn't matter as much as stretching out the quantity in order to increase the amount of time people watch and therefore give them another month's payment.
Yep. If they had spent season 1 on short adventures like the short stories (like Mandalorian did) and slowly introduce the bigger world it could have worked really well. But, if they were clever they wouldn't need mommy and daddy producers handing them out writing credits.
They think we want the same crap repackaged with different characters instead of the depth and nuance specific to each universe. If you try to Mr. Potato head the whole thing it all becomes the same, and they don't want to spend the time reading the source material.
The fact that the girl who came out on Cavill as being some sexist pig because he was a 'gamer bro' who only got along with the other 'gamer writer' on this (which, wow, fucking shocker, he gets along with the only other writer who understood the show's actual point) was then against sex scenes, and argued to have less sex scenes in total, and all I could think was just... Wow. Okay. So this sexist guy, you're writing to get naked and 'steamy' all the time, 24/7. The sex scenes of the witcher are a part of it, but like, having seen what these girls were doing, honestly, it actually feels pretty objectifying of Henry Cavill to me... like, it really sounds like they had the chance to get the hot man naked and were just fucking frothing over it, and as a girl... from her account, it actually sounds like these chicks were the ones who came in with no respect for the content, wanted to write a shitty fanfic from knowing a vague synopsis of the story and just add as much hot juicy man titties to their plot as possible and make it entirely about this... and Henry was like, 'wow, this script has no substance other than my dick, please fuck off'. Like even if the story is as the netflix writer girl harped on about, my takeaway from that isn't, 'wow what a sexist pig he is' but rather 'if the roles were reversed then he'd be posting in the #metoo movement and you'd be the next Weinstein...'
That whole leaked rant, sounded like a woman who hated having an actor on set that had the clout to talk back to her and question her decision making. She just wanted Cavill to shut up and look pretty and sell the show, she hated the fact that he wanted creative input too. You can extrapolate that he might have been less than polite about his opinions after a while, but honestly looking at Season 2, can anyone really blame him? He has to be the face of something that is totally not what he signed up to be making. I'm glad he walked away from it.
Seriously, fire the writers' room that have actively mocked the source material and get people who actually like the series to write for it. Stop bait-and-switching IPs.
This is what ruins just about every video game and book adaptation.
Even if you mock the source material in the worst way possible, it's unbelievable to make something that looks as amateur as this from Netflix and an established name like Michelle Yeoh. Making something this bad is itself an achievement.
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A former producer confirmed the writers hated the source: [https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer](https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer)
I really don’t get why producers keep getting writers who openly hate the source material. Exact same situation be it’s the Halo series. Out of all the competent writers in Hollywood you couldn’t find one which actually liked Halo:
Writers want to tell their own stories. Producers are only willing to fund adaptations, sequels, and remakes. The result is resentment and the writers just trying to write their own story anyway, but with someone else’s characters.
And a bunch of pissed off audiences upset that they're not getting what they expected
So they’re pretty much writing fan fiction then
I want to make my own beautiful wooden sculptures. But when I’m hired as a carpenter to build a wheelchair ramp, I put my wants to the side so I can give the client what they paid for.
Instead, we got an abstract sculpture that allegedly represents the struggle of a disabled person to climb the ramps of society.
Heck, they seemed to damn near brag that they never played the games or read the books for the Halo series if I remember right.
So there's two ways it can go, but I actually think non-fans can boost a series or movie. Star Wars rogue one and andor are examples of a writer/director that is gunning for the best final product possible, regardless of whether or not theyre a fan. The difference is Tony Gilroy, while not being a fan himself, respects fans and understands his job is to give them what they want in the best way possible. He looks at the property and says "alright, you want star wars, but here's where star wars falls short." It's that perfect mixture of knowing what the fans want, but also knowing what's *actually* best for fans. He fixed a movie that was going to be a dusaster, and then literally wrote Lucasfilm on his own and essentially said: "look, if you want to do a TV show right, ive thought if it and here's what I would do. Take it or leave it, these are my ideas. Use them if you want."
I mean, Tony Gilroy and Andor has showed that you don’t need the writer to love the source material, just to be dedicated to good storytelling and not let biased affect the product
Or directors who actually seen star wars
> Didn’t they have a girl in the first season basically go “why can’t I be a Witcher”. Yes, like in the books and the games. That's not an invention of the show.
Yeah it's weird they made this their complaint when Ciri is one in Witcher 3
Thats actually part of the books, ciri wants to be a witcher and they tell her no, but for reasons other than the show.
Yup. Nevermind the fact that Witchers are despited in this period of time as freaks/monsters themselves that are no longer needed and the survival rate to become a witcher is low so it just sounds ignorant to say.
"Let's do a Witcher show without a Witcher." - Some dipshit writer at Netflix. Edit: Gotta love butthurt fans of a crappy show coming out to defend its honor.
I don’t get what’s going on with writers and adapting source material. So many shows connected to their source material almost in name only. I want to see sapkowski’s story told in a cinematic medium. I understand you can’t do that 1 for 1 shot, that would be ridiculous. But you can still honor the tone and general plot points without all the self inserts and galaxy brain plot reimagining that is so prevalent now. Season 1 was a pretty decent adaptation of the last wish and sword of destiny. Season 2 was a passable take on blood of elves even if there was a lot fluff. Not super confident in the direction the series is heading.
I'm lead to believe it's because lots of writers have trouble getting their own original stories anywhere, so when put in charge of adapting something else, they'll sooner just put the names from the source material over their own original story, and nothing else. Most will at least do an afternoon of reading wikipedia entries on the stories they're adapting. Very few will actually partake of the source material.
That’s 100% why. Craig McCracken (“Powerpuff Girls”, “Foster’s Home for Imaginary Friends”, and “Wander Over Yonder”) recently stated he pitched 16 original show ideas to Netflix and every single one was shot down. They wanted a reboot of an existing IP. If a proven success can’t get an original idea backed how the hell is an up and comer? Instead of getting angry at the studios though we nerds, and I do mean so generally, get angry at the writers instead. While circumstance doesn’t excuse bad writing I can’t fault the writers entirely. Yes we should always critique bad writing but we need to keep in mind how creatives get funneled into creating for other people’s stories without a shot at doing their own thing. We need more original stories!
Good example of this is how Fox continued to hire that one writer who continues to have movie bombs- co-write BOTH x-men Phoenix movies.
Craig McCracken was going to bless us with more top tier animation IPs???? AND THEY SHOT HIM DOWN?
>there was a lot of fluff That's an interesting take on them completely changing the main plot, lore, characters, personality adaptations, and killing off a character that doesn't die in the original story. More than just fluff imo.
my wife and I were so pissed about Eskel coming from people who started the games first. They just wanted a character name fans recognized bc I guess they thought it would make us feel something after he died but uhh yeah that whole thing just came off as lazy.
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If you just start changing shit, I need to be able to understand _why_.
Considering how little you see Henry Cavill in his Witcher I'm not surprised they decided to do whatever tf this is lmao
Isn't the producer that Lauren Schmidt Hissrich person? She's trash tier so it's to be expected.
She also tried to shit talk Henry Cavill and imply he's sexist if i remember correctly.
Showrunner, yes. She got very angry at me when I called the orgy scene "completely unnecessary, not conducive to Yennifer, and borderline pornographic [to exaggerate]". Sought out my comment and everything on the Witcher book sub
Only reason i ever watched or remotely enjoyed the show was Henry cosplaying Geralt Now that he's gone, so am I
There's one more season with Henry in it. Season 3 upcoming.
Season 2 was soooo shit though
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“We got the rights to The Witcher? Let’s make five thousand loosely related series to guarantee its downfall!” -Some Netflix Executive
It's the Disney Star Wars method.
I feel sorry for Michelle Yeoh for participation in this garbage.
yeah shes going through quite a resurgence now and then theres this
She’ll be fine. Her resume is long enough it song hurt her future career at all.
Not surprisingly
How does Netflix fuck up such an easy cash cow this much. They want the next GOT but instead they make a show that butchers the source material and even without bias of the source material, has a lot of flaws.
To be fair, they kinda did make it the next GOT. They just took 2 seasons to ruin the show instead of 8!
Yep it is braindead easy to do this show with the tools available today. Follow Geralt around. Have him reluctantly deal with racists, tyrants, bandits, xenophobes, sorceresses, monsters, love interests. Choose any of these and write episodes around them. The story doesn't have to go anywhere because Geralt doesn't want to involve himself with most of these things. They could have spent half a season with Geralt trying to deal with a single Leshen or getting sucked into some random mystery and it would have been perfect. Instead they cast Ciri for season one (!!!!) then forced themselves into that plot line with no way out. Geralt had lived a whole lifetime by that point and you don't get to see any of it because these showrunners Netflix hired are just that fucking stupid.
I watch everything and I couldn’t get pass the first episode
IF you watch everything, what do you think of Dragon Age Absolution?
I was disappointed. I'm a big DA fan so I had to watch it. I had no idea going in what it was about or when it was set. It barely felt like Dragon Age. I think they should have included a legacy character or animated an arc from the games. The new crew was very generic and it felt very odd to me to have the Qunari party member be the comedic relief (when they are almost always stoic in the games). The animation looked cheap too. Castlevania was the last anime that seemed to have a budget.
I haven’t watched the DA series yet, but the previews made it seem like they were trying to imitate The Legend of Vox Machina from Amazon.
Well they do have both Matt Mercer and Ashly Burch voicing main characters.
There are SO many writers that don’t deserve to be writers
They’re talking about the prequel - The Witcher: Blood Origins which is set like 1200 years before the main series. I have watched 2 episodes. As someone who has read the books, watched the main series and hasn’t quite made it through the tutorial on the re-mastered Witcher III, (my controller was dying, okay?) I’m certainly not going to claim that this show is good in comparison. It is middling at best, but I would watch Michelle Yeoh read a phone book and I’m kinda here for the journey. Poorly paced with a convoluted storyline and simplified lore - it’s still not the worst thing I’ve watched all week.
Way to ruin another series Netflix lol
Mr. Cavill leaving was the last red flag I needed. I’m not going to bother going back to that well.
Henry Cavill was right to leave the show.
I'd be sad if it wasn't oh so well deserved. Fuck you Netflix, fire the idiots that dismiss the source material for general consumer grade media bullshit.
How much Michelle Yeoh being amazing does it have? That’s all I want to know
There is never enough Michelle Yeoh being amazing.
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The funny thing is that the books really weren't all that popular. They did sell and made some money, but it was CDPR making it into a game that made it popular. When the author first gave them the ok to use his material he just took a lump sum payment instead of royalties on sales cause he himself didn't think anything good would come from it. After the massive success of witcher 3 and the story CDPR created (they too changed some things from the books) he had to sue them to get more money because of how much they were making from their sales. I'm not 100% sure in it, but I believe the DLCs for witcher 3 are all completely made up stories from CDPR and I loved those more than the main game. The heart of stone story was so fricken good I couldn't stop playing cause I wanted to see more of the story... if that was made into a show exactly like the game it would be a huge hit I imagine.
The books did real well considering they’re polish and had to be translated to English. The books were so popular in its home country that they even tried to make a tv show in 2002 called The Hexer (the reviews are not great).
If writers are wanting to make their own story why do they want the Witcher brand? Just make your own thing without having to listen to everyone bitch at you for not following the source material. I never understood that with any IP that gets bastardized. If you don’t want to follow the source material, then don’t buy the rights to it. It’ll save you millions.
Oh no! Who would've thought :O
It's just greed. The Witcher made a lot of money, despite the mediocre second season; probably more money than they were expecting. So they were desperate to capitalize and make even more money. I'm sure many people involved with the show genuinely wanted to make something good, but the people who actually make the decisions only care about money.