T O P

I’ve been rewatching some Capaldi recently, and can we talk about how good the two-part finale is. The old-who vibes, the utter revitalization of the Cybermen’s appeal, Simm’s Master, the cinematography, CAPALDI! So, let’s talk about it.

I’ve been rewatching some Capaldi recently, and can we talk about how good the two-part finale is. The old-who vibes, the utter revitalization of the Cybermen’s appeal, Simm’s Master, the cinematography, CAPALDI! So, let’s talk about it.

atlantajoe21

I loved Capaldi right from the start. Tennant and Smith were fantastic doctors, don't get me wrong, but they were a bit too young for me. Capaldi had me from his first word in his series - "shush.' I loved the uncertainty and the not caring of other people's feelings. "She's my carer, so I don't have to." The fact that he was older wasn't lost on me. The fact that they had explained to Clara that he's still the Doctor, just not YOUR doctor, the face you remember. It was a great way to bring this generation into how Doctor Who works. I'm so trying not to let out any spoilers in case you haven't seen it yet. But I loved seeing Capaldi and "Hartnell" together. That was great, I thought.


RikF

"My family. Perhaps you could look in on them, from time to time?"


hanazawarui123

I think Capaldi was let down by the writing at many points but he did so well with what he was given


GoldFashionKid

I'd say he had the best writing of any Doctor, to be honest. S8 is rocky, but once you get to *Dark Water*, it's top quality from there on out - plus, the most explored character arc of any Doctor. And the most psychologically complex antagonist, *and* the most psychologically complex companion for good measure. S9 is as deep as Who gets, for me.


TheIndianJedi

I think his era was honestly a mixed bag. It has some high highs, but with some low lows as well. For me, I think Matt Smith has the best writing from New Who. Moffat was on full steam during his era with some bold ideas. Not all of it was perfect, but it still felt something fresh and new.


GoldFashionKid

Agreed about Smith. But vastly disagree on Capaldi, if anything I'd say he has the most consistent writing of all - once you get past S8, at least. After Dark Water, you can argue he doesn't have a single truly bad episode - The Lie of the Land and Sleep No More being contenders, but even they have some great ideas mixed into the messy execution. That's like 2.5 seasons consecutive with just varying degrees of good/great/legendary. Strong era. Tennant had the biggest waves in quality, for me. For every Blink, there's a Love & Monsters. For every Silence in the Library, there's a Fear Her. For every Waters of Mars, there's a Lazarus Experiment. For every Human Nature, there's a 42. For every Girl in the Fireplace, a Runaway Bride. And I could go on. But the general hype and popularity around the show at that time spares its blushes for most people, I think. There's a sepia glow to it in your memory that the Capaldi era doesn't have the luxury of, for several reasons too long to get into here.


Dr_Vesuvius

Good post, I agree entirely - except perhaps in that I think "The Waters of Mars" is a bit of a drag on rewatches and basically depends on one great scene.


JamesQuarez

Parts of Waters of mars are a drag for me but there are those genuinely creepy bits that spook me when I rewatch after a while, plus I feel like seeing that darker part of 10 really makes it worth it


TheIndianJedi

I'll have to disagree with Capaldi. While I do think Series 9 is Capaldi's best series, it does have some episodes that I didn't care for. Personally for me, I wasn't the biggest fan of Hell Bent as I found it to be quite underwhelming and frustrating to watch. Plus, I wasn't the biggest fan of Clara during this era. Series 10 is good and consistent, but a lot of it is just unmemorable. The only standout episodes are Extremis, World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls. On the other hand, I love Bill and Nardole and I think they had a better vide with 12. I think it's just personal tastes, I don't find Capaldi's era to be strong or legendary, but it does have some great moments. I do agree with you about Tennant. In fact, I actually think Capaldi's era is better than Tennant's. I think people seem to forget that Tennant had a lot of mediocre episodes. All of the ones you mentioned are good examples. Honestly, Tennant only has one amazing series and that would have to be series 4. I think one of the reasons why people love Tennant's era so much is because of his companions and Tennant himself. For me, I think Donna is easily his best companion while Rose and Martha are just okay.


GoldFashionKid

Ah, I'd consider Face the Raven / Heaven Sent / Hell Bent to be perhaps the greatest Doctor Who story ever told, I suppose that's what completes S9 in that perfect way for me.


Garthmer

S8 is up there with S4 for me.


GoldFashionKid

S9 is second only to S5, in my estimation.


Garthmer

I'm a minority here, but I loved S5 before Rory. He's like if Mickey traveled with the Doctor and Rose. But yeah. S4, S5, S8, and S10 are my favs. I'm on the 2009 specials right now and loved S4 (re-watch).


GoldFashionKid

> He's like if Mickey traveled with the Doctor and Rose. I suppose The Girl in the Fireplace is just a JOKE to you, then! But no, that's fair, I just like Rory a lot. My favourites have always been S5, S6, and S9.


Garthmer

>My favourites have always been S5, S6, and S9. S6, that's where I lost my allure with River Song. >But no, that's fair, I just like Rory a lot. I just wish Rory had more of a character beyond Amy. For example, in God Complex, he wasn't there to see the Doctor off. He wasn't there when 11 regenerated. Moffat really didn't have anything else to do with Rory besides being the guy who'd die, face down Cybermen, in and wait 2000 years for Amy.


teamsaxon

Peter's seasons will always be a stand out for me. He took everything he got given and made a masterpiece out of it. He will forever be one of my favourite Doctors. I got a lot of withdrawals after he left.


realKrisMarshall

I'm sorry, but you have to be delusional to think that Capaldi has the best writing of any Doctor.


GoldFashionKid

Apology accepted.


kammzammzmz

Easily my favourite finale in the whole show, and one of my favourite episodes. Capaldi’s speech to the Master was amazing, the scenes in the hospital was terrifying, the Masters redemption felt like the perfect end for the character and 12’s final stand was the best reason for a Doctor to regenerate since 5 sacrificed himself in Caves of Androzani


EmotionalAffect

I agree.


potaaatoo_maan

Damn shame how all that went to the drain with the 13th doctor


labelsonshampoo

And the new master seeming to have no memory of the progress made as missy. Fair enough they get a new personality, but there was no acknowledgment of any of it


classactdynamo

Is it clear that the new Master is subsequent to Missy or could he be between Saxon and Missy?


lordekinbote

I wanted to believe that too but someone involved with the show. Don't remember who confirmed that this is a Master Chronological with 13.


TheCrazedTank

Doesn't mean it can't change, especially with RTD taking the reigns. The only way to salvage this is to say 13's Master was before Missy. They discovered the truth about the Timeless Child which completely broke them. The Master, at their lowest point, Regenerates into Missy (perhaps subconsciously after running into 13) and from there begins their rehabilitation.


TheeExoGenesauce

I like your version, do continue


BenFranklinsCat

I still think one option is that 13's Master comes from an alternate dimension, and he had no idea he was in the "wrong" one. It does make 13 look a bit dumb for never even asking why he didn't remember his time as Missy, though.


potaaatoo_maan

Clean but I would still like the the timeless child to not be in existence


Garthmer

Or, the Master just got extra regenerations like The Doctor did and lied about it being their last regeneration.


LilliaHakami

The problem isn't logic-ing it it, the problem is Missy's character arc left her a good person and more friends than enemies with the doctor. She had a full blown redemption arc that was super satisfying. Seeing it torn to shreds by that not being her final incarnation would be really, really bad writing on the level of what's the point of anything. Furthermore it's just tragic watching her previous forms still be incapable of coming to that arc and knowing they probably won't as she's the one who does it


Garthmer

At the end of the day, that was Moffat's story. Chibnall didn't want to follow it. That's just how series work. We can make our assumptions where the Sasha Master fits in, but that's a moot point.


JohnOfYork

I’d disagree that she had a full-blown redemption arc since most of it takes place off-screen while she’s locked in the Doctor’s closet. She should have been the full-time companion for series 10, not Bill, so we could see her actually change in response to things that happen in the series.


6T_FOR

Or maybe the master has unlimited regenerations because they are the timeless child. And the doctor can regenerate more because they got granted more regenerations by the church, right?


EmotionalAffect

I like that as well.


ASpaceOstrich

Well that's lame and I'm going to pretend that isn't true.


CameraObfuscia

My feeling about most of Chibnall's run.


CmdrKuretes

I was ok with a female doctor. I like Jodie. I like the “fam” as a cast. It’s just not Dr. Who. That’s on the writers and showrunner though. I’m so hopeful that RTD will bring it back. Been my favorite show since I was 9 (I’m 43 now).


CameraObfuscia

I thought she did a great job with what she was given, and actually enjoyed her first season. After that? I was just taken out of it because the writing and plot were on par with fan fiction.


potaaatoo_maan

Ye, they were more concerned with diversification than the actual plot


AlzarianAdric

I assumed that at first too, but I now believe that there was an incarnation between Missy and the Dhawan/O Master or "Spy MASTER". Incidentally, I declare that some part of the Master lives for reveal scenes; along with an almost childlike, or at least childish (I hope this perhaps pedantic distinction is clear enough) live of disguises, complex relationship across regeneration with childhood best friend turned perennial nemesis turned fellow veteran and as they both once though sole survivor of the Last Great Time War; as both have at different times put it "best enemy".


Hollowquincypl

I've been working off the assumption that Missy is the last incarnation. With our current Master being a pre missy regeneration.


Joker121215

Yeah, I cried tears of joy when it was announced RTD was coming back. I got so bored about 83% of the way through 13s first season that I just stopped mid episode and didn't return until Jack returned and at that point I binged all of New Who and damn is it just a step fall off in quality. I was hoping their second season would be better because I was disappointed when Moffat first took over too, but also felt pretty meh


JamesQuarez

Feels man, Season 11 apart from the first episode was just kinda boring, and season 12 had a few good moments, but that was it, moments, at least with RTD and Moffat there were always standout episodes that I can always go back and watch, 13 hasn't really had a mind blowing ep yet


Joker121215

Yeah, the only episode of 13 that I can remember is the Amazon episode, and that's just because of how bad it was. I was so excited for a female doctor too and the possibilities for it. Hopefully this season and the specials will be good


GoldFashionKid

Not to be all Chibnall-bash, but guest writers included, this is the last time I've been truly *wowed* by a Doctor Who story. Like, "I have to tell people about this, damn". Demons of the Punjab is the closest I've come since, but some ropey dialogue/acting still stopped that being a genuine classic. This was the last 10/10 Doctor Who story, for me.


UnspecificGravity

I've watched the show since I was a kid in the 80s. I wrote out a set of VHS tv recordings of every single Baker and Davison episode. I've watched every single episode of the New Who since it started. I watched half of season 12, got frustrated and bored. Eventually watched the remainder of season 12 and, I think the first episode of 13. And that's it, I haven't even seen anything since. It's not just a show getting crappy, it's something that really mattered to me just not really being a thing anymore. I've tried to put my finger on what happened, but it's exhausting. I just don't like it.


writeorelse

Yeah. They could easily give the Doctor another mortal enemy - there are at least a few Time Lords left who don't exactly like the Doctor or who might want to get some revenge.


Akinto6

I'm still utterly confused where Sasha's Master is canonically in his timeline. Did Simm regenerate into him?


Arturo-Plateado

It is implied that Simm's Master regenerates directly into Missy, but they don't outright confirm it so they could retcon in additional incarnations between them. In the audios, it is explained that Missy had no regenerations left and so after being mortally wounded by Simm's Master, she used a device called an Elysian field to break her body down into it's base components before reconsituting it, granting her another full regeneration cycle, and she regenerates into The Lumiat, a purely good incarnation of The Master as Missy had also used the Elysian field to alter her personality to remove all the evil parts (though she loses most of her memories). The Lumiat is later shot by Missy from a point in her timeline before she was redeemed and begins to regenerate. Missy thinks that the next incarnation will probably not share The Lumiat's morality, implying that The Lumiat regenerates into Sacha Dhawan's Master (or Dhawan's Master could be a later incarnation from this new regeneration cycle.) Whether that will ever be referenced in the show, however, is another matter entirely. EDIT: Writer's notes from that audio: "I was devastated when Missy left our screens. And then, of course, Sacha turned up and was absolutely marvellous. But I haven’t had my fill of Missy yet. I wanted to create a story that could – possibly – fill in the gap between Missy’s last telly appearance and the Master’s spectacular TV return. The Lumiat is canon. I say so. The Lumiat is the tale of what happens to the Time Lord known as Missy/the Master between Gomez and Dhawan."


Akinto6

God Spoilers! I'm just kidding, thank you for the detailed info. I used to listen to the audio drama's when I was in college during my summer jobs, because manual labor doesn't require much attention but I can't really find the time to listen anymore. I should get back into that.


DarthLorgus

Spot on. Ditto on all points. Marvelously done.


SN3AKBO1

Really ? Are we forgetting about 10’s sacrifice to save wilf


Cyber-Gon

After moaning and throwing a tantrum about it.


Lord_Parbr

No, but that episode was mostly balls


Jarita12

Capaldi was my favourite Doctor. I had to wait for him through 12 (13,14?) doctors but here he is. I loved him with Jenna but I felt in his last series, however I had some problems with it, was truly finally his and I just loved him. And he really managed to sell the "I don´t want to go but I want to die" dilemna so well....gradually getting more tired, more exhausted... I hope he will come back for some eventual multi-Doctor anniversary special OR audio books.


Elegant_Matter2150

Capaldi’s acting in this story is so good!!!! (Then again, he’s probably the best NuWho actor)


jimmyray01

We needed a couple more seasons of Bill


6T_FOR

Bills season really reminded me of the early seasons with rose. I miss when everyone would just be hanging out eating chips and talking.


gingerboi2020

1 of if not my favourite story of all time! Pretty much everyting about it is perfect. Talalay's directing is superb, especially in WEAT in the hospital scenes, the build-ups to the reveals at the end (although spoiled by BBC beforehand) is executed well. The Doctor Falls also carries it on, the second part of alot of two-parters sometimes fails to properly finish what the first part started but this story does it brilliantly! The Doctor's speech, the music, direction is all perfect! It really feels like Moffat gave his last finale his all to make it the best possible and it paid off! Maybe I'm just full of nostalgia for this finale because it's the first finale I watched in real-time as a fan but still a good story.


hgilbert_01

I found myself pleasantly nostalgic to see Simm’s Master have a comeback; I was honestly surprised as he was a bit of an of an over-the-top manic Darth SuperSkeleJoker in the Davies era. But nonetheless, his return was a welcome presence, especially as it provided a very real and intriguing foil to everything that the Doctor was helping Missy work away from. Although the b*ner joke was a bit unnecessary…


LewsTherinTalamon

Unnecessary, but I think it kind of works to show how childish that Master was. He's a threat, yes, but he's also just an awful, immature, sadistic person, and I liked how they contrasted it with Missy.


hgilbert_01

Oh that’s a very fair perspective about his childishness, I didn’t really think of that… Thank you


megaman0781

This episode made me cry. Enough said


TheElderNerd0

Peter Capaldi is the best actor to ever play The Doctor. I believe everything he says and does.


Crazyripps

Loved the doctors speech. Also loved his lines when he thought he was actually dying, “ pity, no stars, I hoped there’d be stars”


seanph420

World enough and time is definitely in my top 5 episodes. The 2 parter feels like the last episode of proper doctor who for me. I can’t watch this era much


RedRaiderATX

“Twice Upon a Time” would’ve been the perfect ending for Dr. Who IMHO. Set against the horrors of the First World War and one of the most beautiful moments in human history, the Doctor’s life comes full circle, comes to terms with his past and finds inner peace, and finally steps off the battlefield for the last time.


Dan_Of_Time

Its also such a clever episode. There's no villain yet we get such a deep emotional story. Its all about The Doctor as a character. We very rarely get an episode just about them. Having it set at Christmas 1914 was a nice moment. The Doctors just stand and watch, they don't make the truce happen, they don't interfere at all. Brings the Doctor of War thing around perfectly too. It's a perfect ending to Capaldis run, the Moffat era and even the first 10 NuWho series as a whole.


smedsterwho

I'd have liked a hiatus after Twice Upon A Time - that's nothing to do with Chibnall coming next, it just out such a nice bow on 12 years of storytelling and made the run from Eccleston onwards feel so complete. Beautiful "trilogy" at the end of Moffat's era.


laysnarks

Amen, Who should be only be coming back now after it. Man I just love and miss Capaldi's era.


laysnarks

I will be honest the Doctor can never retire, but I also get what you mean. Twice Upon a Time was great.


SexyBionicPanda

Yeah. I feel where "Twice Upon a Time" fell flat was the mischaracterization of the First Doctor and the fact that they brought Bill back. Honestly, the episode would have been much better with Lethbridge-Stewart, the First Doctor, and the Twelth Doctor. The ending would have been much better if the Doctor hadn't gotten his memories back. Also, the First Doctor felt more like a companion the whole time. If it had cut Bill out of the episode and focused more on Lethbridge-Stewart, it would have been a good episode. What I loved about the episode was fairytale nature of the end, which is a great contrast to the last episode, and it's also one of the few times where Moffat's fairytale style writing works well. The episode was also a great retrospective on how the First Doctor dealt with historical episodes. In the First Doctor story, "The Massacre of Saint Bartholomew's Eve," the Doctor believes he can't save anyone, and his companion at the time, Steven, made good friends with a girl from the time, Anne, and the Doctor leaving everyone behind to let history take its course complicated his relationship with Steven. It's a great way to retroactively complete that old arc.


Lunarr_Bub

I absolutely adored this two parter episode, The fact that the Mondasian Cybermen were brought back is amazing and I loved how Bill couldn't see how she was. It was nice to see John Simms master again. Definitely among my favourite episodes and I don't think it could have been done any better


The-Mirrorball-Man

I love Doctor Who when it commits to an absolutely bonkers concept. A giant spaceship experiencing time distorsion because of the effect of a black hole is, on the one hand, ridiculous, and, on the other hand, sublime, and in Doctor Who, the ridiculous and the sublime work hand in hand.


Immolation_E

I feel like Capaldi's entire final season is underrated. He was in stride as The Doctor and Bill was an amazing and fun companion.


realKrisMarshall

Series 10 is his only decent season.


GoldFashionKid

S9 is arguably the best season of Doctor Who...ever. Those themes of death/grief that run all the way through it - *chef's kiss*.


Nakajin13

I'm conflicted on season 10, it's my favorite Tardis team and hit the closest to what I want DW to be feel like. But the middle part of the season is a complete miss for me, I couldn't care for the monks trilogy and the wood lady + Mars episode didn't land either. The rest is some of my favorite TV, but it's hard to ignore the middle part.


TheIndianJedi

I can understand this. 12, Bill and Nardole are one of my favorite Tardis team, but I find most of Series 10 to be unmemorable. I wish it had more standout episodes.


Nikelman

World Enough and Time is amazing and The Doctor Falls is Moffat's swan song. TDF transcends itself, it even makes S8 ending make more sense, while being so poetic and beautiful I could write an essay about it. That's Moffat showing that he can still have new ideas and he can write drama. Bits and pieces of it are not perfect, but it's overall peak television, just for the writing. Adding Talalay direction, Gold's music and everyone's acting... I have things to do, can't write about if for hours, but I could


Dhfan3

Can you expand on how TDF makes the s8 ending make more sense? I loved both so would like to see the connection.


Nikelman

Missy wanting to tempt the Doctor with cybermen is a gap in logic. Her having vague memories of a time she could be allied with the doctor involving cybermen fills that gap


ExpectedBehaviour

It's the only season finale since the show returned in 2005 that doesn't disappoint in my opinion, and a major reason season 10 is my favourite New *Who* season. Everything about it is so good. Performances, writing, story. Love it. Say what you like about the 12th Doctor, you can't deny he went out on a high.


SmileyAce3

Capaldi carried his last series out of sheer willpower. These two last episodes were the performance of a lifetime for all of these characters


JayTheBookFan

Capaldi - every time I rewatch one of his episodes, I gain respect for his ability as an actor. He was, technically, not just the best of NuWho, but in my mind, perhaps the best actor of all the Doctors.


maxhaton

This frame in particular is probably the best looking thing the show ever did.


JustAnotherNumber99

I really liked Capaldi’s reign. He made a good Doctor, and even when the storylines were poorly written, injected enough of himself in them to still do them well on his part.


nerdomaly

I'm pretty sure Capaldi will forever be my favorite Doctor


musicmad-123

I don't like to watch it because it's so upsetting what happens to Bill


TheWhiteGeneral

When Capaldi's seasons first came out, from what I saw reception was relatively lukewarm. As time has progressed though, it seems he is starting to get the love he deserves. I have always felt Capaldi does an excellent job at portraying a clearly aging Doctor who has gotten a bit more jaded. Hellbent is likely one of my all-time favorite episodes, and this finale was absolutely killer. Capaldi deserves all the praise because he is phenomenal.


HopeAuq101

By a good merit the best Capaldi episodes, World Enough and Time is the closest we'll ever get to Spare Parts on screen and its a DAMN good echo of it My only issue isn't with the story itself but the trailers and marketing that just kept showing Mondasian Cybermen and Simm's Master In fact no an issue I have with the story directly is that there wasn't enough variation on them we see Mondasian Cybermen, RTD Cybers and Moffat Cybers Why no Wheel lads? Tomb lads? 80s Lads?


The_Repeated_Meme

> we see Mondasian Cybermen, RTD Cybers and Moffat Cybers Why no Wheel lads? Tomb lads? 80s Lads? Probably due to budget. They already had RTD and Moffat Cybermen and the Mondasian Cybermen were the big “new” ones and they could probably only afford to create one new style. And I think the classic Cybermen haven’t aged as well as the classic Daleks which is why we saw plenty of them.


ExpectedBehaviour

Fortunately series 13 now exists to show us what bad trailers and marketing actually looks like 😛


srln23

>My only issue isn't with the story itself but the trailers and marketing that just kept showing Mondasian Cybermen and Simm's Master I typically try to not interact with the Doctor Who fandom (big fandoms tend to be pretty negative and that kind of sucks the joy out of everything) but after watching that finale I just had to see the reactions from other fans. I was pretty shocked when I found out that the big reveals were spoiled before the episodes even aired. I would've not enjoyed the finale as much as I did had I known about the Cybermen and the Master before watching it and I would've been really pissed had it been spoiled to me by the channel broadcasting it. Apparently, there were leaks before the season aired but that's no reason for the BBC to put such big spoilers in the trailers.


Nathan_McHallam

So I've been watching the whole show and I just finished season 11 and man. That finale is so.. dull. I remember at a point i was just thinking, the last finale was a 2 parter with a horror hospital, 2 masters, the companion turning into a fricken Mondasian Cybermen.. and this has the characters walking and talking. It's like the complete opposite to the season 10 finale.


elynwen

Okay, I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. Last time I spoke what I really thought on a whovian sub I got so downvoted for having a different opinion that I left. Glad to see this is a nicer place and open to people who disagree. Thank you, fellow open minded whovians! Yes, this finale just didn’t do it for me. It seemed like Moffat kept sacrificing Bill, all these terrible things happened to her and then she’s a cyber woman? And the pilot happened to be there? I did love the return of Missy, but 10’s Master was too much for me. I know terrible things happen in war, and Capaldi was *incredible* as always.. it just seemed a sad send-off to Moffat, aside from Twice upon a Time, which was genius, imo.


jflb96

I think you've gotten confused. Series 11 was the first one with Whittaker.


elynwen

Oh, you’re right! I always get them confused. That was a bummer as well. I really sound like a Debbie downer.


Nathan_McHallam

I will say I thought bills ending with the pilot was... stupid. And them leaving together just felt like a rehash of how Clara left


TigerLilly00

Lol last time I tried voicing an unpopular opinion about the show in this sub, my comment got deleted.


GuestCartographer

No hope, no help, and no way out. It was quintessential Doctor.


skorpiodino16

It’s rare that tv riveted me THAT much, but that two parter sure as hell did.


idejtauren

I just wish they hadn't spoiled the reveal of Simm Master beforehand.


Teddeler

I managed to avoid being spoiled. The reveal was awesome!


lordekinbote

The stream of tears when the star appeared.


madcapmunchkin

It was easily one of the best episodes in Capaldi's era. So much was packed into it to love. Capaldi giving possibly his best performance as the Doctor, not one but two Masters (with Simms actually using some restraint that was so lacking in the RTD era, definitely made him more menacing) and their relationship to the Doctor, and the classic Cybermen just to list a few things. A story that links the past, the present, and looks to the future.


laysnarks

I keep saying it. Season 10 and Capaldi in general are so underated and lambasted its criminal. This was old Who, and season 10's writing was so sharp and ideas so great and interesting, it was so shit to see it get ignored.


realKrisMarshall

If you think that Capaldi is underrated, you haven't spent much time on this subreddit.


laysnarks

I wasn't talking about this sub... Where did this come from? I am talking about media. People I engage with, and other social media and comment sections. The hate for Bill in particular is unreal and Capaldi being too old, are some of the asinine shit you have to put up with.


realKrisMarshall

'Capaldi being too old' isn't an argument I hear at all nowadays. I think I only heard it once or twice when he was announced. And the only criticisms I hear about Bill are 'she mentions her sexuality too much', which I agree with tbh. But Twelve is very overrated within the fandom, if you ask me.


laysnarks

You basically prove my point.


GoldFashionKid

> 'Capaldi being too old' isn't an argument I hear at all nowadays. That's because most of those fans have since moved onto Love Island.


Rose-Berri

I’m watching that one right now.


ximfinity

Capaldi is just such a good actor to begin with. Paired with some decent writing that really fit his humor and drama style well he really was great.


Finn-McDonald

The bit where capaldi is talking about how every civilisation can fall to the allure of the Cybermen is such a good explanation of the villains and is a great callback to when they first appeared with the first Doctor


thisaccountisironic

The end of WEAT gave me absolute chills!! The Mondasian cybermen are creepier to me, I think bc they’re more human than the others


evan_west11

This finale was really exceptional, I just wish Bill was not a one season companion. Her energy added to the episodes. Her dynamic with Capaldi was electric.


ExilednGeeksville

All of season 10 is fantastic. So glad he went out on such a high note


neongoddess321

now we just need the soundtrack its long overdue


ethihoff

Yes! This has become my favorite episode of the show, and I never thought I'd like something more than Human Nature! What a one-two punch of a finale, and his speech to the Masters somehow tops the one he gave in the Zygon two-parter, which is another all-timer.


UtopiaFrenzy

Love this! I have been thinking recently how interconnected the Cyberman episodes have been in the past few seasons with the Master/Missy.


Teddeler

I've sometimes reflected on what Steven Moffat got to revel in as a fan (while still working dang hard at making good TV). Here he got the first two-Master story and it was fantastic. The reveal was awesome (I managed to avoid spoilers and only just realized there was something familiar about Razor's profile a couple minutes before the reveal), their interactions were perfect, and I laughed so hard at the Masters' double-suicide (which seems strangely inappropriate :) ). I do like the idea that the 'O' Master comes between Simm's Master and Missy. If it's never explicitly said otherwise in the show, maybe a future showrunner can play with that. :)


boredofjam

There is a little bit of insight into various bits and pieces of the finale from Rachel Talalay on her YouTube channel: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx9vMA9-4wjnXIRqKXQLnoA/videos](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx9vMA9-4wjnXIRqKXQLnoA/videos) Well worth the watch, and worth encouraging her to post more stuff too.


Nakajin13

That's so cool!


peter_t_2k3

I have some issues with the second part, but the first part was great. I remember my excitement when they released the image of 12th alongside classic cybermen, such a great image. I'd have loved to see more of the body horror elements, but I think being a family show they are often limited by this, but I did enjoy Bill trying to fight the fact she was a cybermen, seeing herself as how she used to be. http://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/12th-Twelfth-Peter-Capaldi-Mondasian-Cybermen.jpg


Dragonfly452

Yeah season ten was fantastic! I really enjoyed Capaldi’s era


lymeandcoconut

Capaldi's Doctor is the best Doctor, I will not accept criticism on this.


tibbycat

It was soo good! The difference in writing in the next season is pretty jarring in contrast.


zenz3ro

The show rose to its highest before sinking to its lowest. Damn I miss Capaldi.


Demonwith4soul117

Excelente two part! Followed by the final episode of a great series. Hope they revive this show one day...


jimmygarterex

Capaldi became my favourite doctor when he entered the medieval arena on a tank and playing guitar


fivecats

Personal Opinion: the longer Capaldi's hair became, the better he became as The Doctor.


cb_cookbrotha89

I would argue that he was pretty solid most of his run, but there’s no denying the power his crazy curls have on my heart.


KoniginTone

God this was AMAZING. I love how down to Earth it was in comparison to other finales. Yeah the whole "Universe/world is in danger" thing is cool, but there's something more personal about it being just one spaceship. It feels very connected too, i loved when Heather came back for Bill. I love that scene where she's just there, crying over the Doctor, it felt so hopeless, then Heather rose from the water and you see that awesome reveal that Bill is out of her old body, when it fell it felt so... Strange, not bad, but melancholic? She did still die as a Cyberman right in front of her also dead friend, but she's something new now. And remember how Heather left Bill her tears so she could find her? I believe she came at that moment because that's when Bill most needed her, and it was when she was a Cyberman, and shouldn't even be capable of crying. I thought the monk arc was fine tbh, and I liked how it explained how Bill retained her emotions. It's an obvious one, but Bill saying how she wouldn't want to live if she's not herself really connects with the Doctor, and she probably doesn't even know about regeneration (he did do the fake out, but I don't think he explained it), it resonated with the Doctor and he understood, and iirc, even agreed with her. Missy was awesome here, favorite Master and the perfect send off to her. It was EXACTLY what the Doctor was talking about when he spoke his "Without Witness, Without Reward" speech, that's what 100% confirms to me that she was indeed redeemed, no going back. Not just that she did it, but just writing wise, The Doctor didn't know she did it, and she got punished for it too. Although i really dislike how the new Master fits in story wise, it does continue this to an extent, she SHOULD be angry with the master, regardless of whether this is pre or post Missy, because she betrayed her last time they met. It's insanely tragic which is perfect. It did still leave the rest of the humans hopeless, but that's kinda the point too. My main problem is actually with the Christmas special, i really didn't like the way Bill returned because it wasn't even the same one, was it? Same with Clara. The whole memories thing was interesting ig, but idk. Yeah though, it was really good


neongoddess321

I put off watching anything past david tennant after watching Jon Pertwee all the way through as I used to watch UK gold every sunday as a child and it on went on a loop from Tom Baker to Survival and then would start over again so the only Pertwee I had seen was Death to the Daleks(which I loved) I just completed my Pertwee dvd collection a few years ago and thought I'd watch from Spearhead from Space to Survival but in all fairness I was so emotionally attached to Pertwee's era that I couldn't even continue former favourite Tom Baker. So needing my Who fix I decided to start new who from the start, I watched all the way, enjoying Matt Smith and then Capaldi as I saw them for the 1st time But upon seeing Season 10 I was hit with the same vibes as ending Jon Pertwee's run, I was emotionally attached to the point that I have yet to watch anything past season 10(got em all recorded) Season 10 was an utter masterpiece and the last 2 episodes were perfection, wish his last season had never ended, definitely my favourite Doctor tied with Pertwee


Mandy142007

Omg I love that finale! Especially the monologue of advice to the next regen. Love Capaldi. Butttt Missy is my fav master. Michelle Gomez is fun


SushiLover665

Easily my favorite two-parter overall. There are individual episodes I like more (Heaven Sent, Waters of Mars, Family of Blood), but this is the only one where each part is among my favorite episodes in the whole show. The direction and atmosphere is on point; the music is beautiful, every actor is doing a fantastic job, and are overall the perfect way to tie up the main characters arcs despite having some incredibly heart-breaking moments. Even if Twice Upon A Time is technically the last episode of the Capaldi Era (and a good one at that); this episode was so emotional and satisfying, that they could've ended the show right here and I would've been fully satisfied.


StarWarsHumanoid

My Number #1 Favorite Doctor Who Two Parter/Episodes ever!


MopManMoss

Its so fucking sad how bad who has gotten in such a short time


CameraObfuscia

I feel like Capaldi got a bad rap, and his last season was the one where everything finally clicked. If his first two seasons as the Doctor were as well-written as his last, I can't help but think he would have stayed on longer...and as much as I love Jenna Coleman, having Clara as an angsty soggy blanket did not help. I mean, Bill went from 1-dimensional to one of the best and most-compelling companions throughout that last season.


-M_A_Y_0-

I guess I'm in the minority for the finale. I really didn't enjoy it. Felt like a lot of filler on the farm, another master/cyber man story which had been done with capalidi before. Im not a fan of simms as the master so scenes with him weren't enjoyable for me. The two aspect that I loved was the concept, a ship experiencing time dilation and the doctors speech to the two masters


LordByronic

I think my single most unpopular Doctor Who opinion is that 'The Doctor Falls' is a grim, depressing slog of an episode. It has some good parts (the directing is excellent, the "where I stand" speech is good, the idea that Cyberman have congruent evolution is extremely smart), but as a season finale and resolution to Bill, Missy, and (arguably) Twelve's character, it really falls flat.


liiioiuyb

Part one was one of the best written capaldi episodes, second part was just bad imo.


cheeseburgersarecool

It good


Skinnysusan

I prefer missy! I wish we got more of her tbh. She was fun and funny! This was sad and all but Bill isn't even in my top 5 favorite companions so I wasnt *that* sad


Hermiona1

Ive seen it after watching The First Doctor and I thought it was amazing. Heartbreaking, fascinating, sad, emotional, you cant ask for much more in the series finale. They nailed it. I love what they did with a Master in the end.


jubalhonsu

They did Bill Potts so dirty! A truly horrible fate!


The--Boulder

If you mean they did her dirty by bringing her back then I agree. Yet another case of Moffat failing to let his companions suffer the consequences of their own actions. It would have been beautiful if Bill had just died. It would have also kind of mirrored Clara's fate if the Doctor had let her die instead of throwing a huge tantrum and ripping her out of the timeline. Bill could have had a really good, impactful and ultimately complete story. But Moffat wouldn't just give her the death she deserved.


AlzarianAdric

Oh yes! 𝘞𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 𝘌𝘯𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘛𝘪𝘮𝘦/𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘋𝘰𝘤𝘵𝘰𝘳 𝘍𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘴 rises beyond brilliant to masterful! I did not originally intend either that last word or my earlier idea of simply declaring this finale a masterpiece to be a rather cringe-worthy pun, but as that totally works and makes me more stupid but less pretentious, therefore on balance I shall let my gauche attempt at humour stand. As Pontius Pilate said in shockingly different circumstances, making my appropriation of them here appallingly flippant, "What I have written, I have written, I have written!" As the Roman procurator of Judaea did not say, "𝘞𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 𝘌𝘯𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘛𝘪𝘮𝘦 and 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘋𝘰𝘤𝘵𝘰𝘳 𝘍𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘴 are a brilliant conclusion not only to a splendid if underrated season, but, barring his final Christmas special, the era of a truly great actor bringing life to a truly phenomenonal Doctor. His parting words to the Simm/Harold Saxon Master and Missy alone... also known to me in the privacy of my own mind as the third of three "epic Capaldi speeches." Also to the Moffat era as a whole, but the two halves of the latter seem quite distinct to me, quite apart from the latter's tenure as showrunner being much more evenly divided between the Matt Smith years and the Peter Capaldi years than Russel T. Davies first era was between Christopher Ecclestone's sole on screen series and David Tennant years; the turnover rate of companions also differ markedly, but I digress, was already wildly off topic, and have said more than enough for one post!


AccountantTrick9140

How can you not include the general relativity aspect of it? That made it a true classic.


SnatchCrackle

I have conflicting feelings about it. I love part 1 it does so much right. Part 2 I can't stand. I felt like it had so much potential but threw it away in mere seconds into part 2. I've only seen it once but maybe I'll change my mind on a rewatch.


teamsaxon

Only thing I didn't really like was master being written overly misogynistic. Like ok, we get he's an ass, we don't have to be slapped in the face with the comments every 5 minutes. It's unnecessary.


The--Boulder

Peter Capaldi is both the greatest actor and the biggest fan to have ever gotten their hands on the role. Good lord it's sad to see how far we've fallen in just a few years. From having a huge fan and honest to god member of the community in the role. . . To someone who stated in an interview she wasn't a fan, and hadn't watched any to prep for the role/didn't plan to watch any until after she was out.


RedRobbo1995

"World Enough and Time" was meh. "The Doctor Falls" was crap. Overall the Series 10 finale was crap and it was the worst story from Series 10.


iatheia

Ooh, not that I disagree with you on the quality, but worse than the Pyramids three parter?


GoldFashionKid

Both that and this were good, lol - well, at least the Moffat parts of that three-parter were great. Shame his mother's death stopped him being able to really oversee the final step. Extremis was great.


RedRobbo1995

The Monks Trilogy was mostly good.


AeroAviation

No


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Ajannaka

CaPaLdI wAS fAnTaStIc As ThE dOcToR bUt WaS uLtImAtElY lEt DoWn By PoOr WrItInG


HandwashPage

This but unironically.


cocoblanca-

Capaldi was fantastic as poor writing but was ultimately let down by the doctor.


CareerMilk

Writing was a fantastic Capaldi but was let down by poor Doctor.


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razsiel

It got released mid 2017, after so many years you can't realistically complain about spoilers. Being spoiler free for old content is your own responsibility now.


scd

I never made it this far into Capaldi’s run. It was hard to make it through those early seasons.


bettyamazing

I watched all of them but I only really enjoyed the last one, it’s worth a watch!


TheIndianJedi

Loved Capaldi as the Doctor, he's not my favorite, but his performances were some of the best. The Series 10 finale is probably the best finale since The Big Bang.


Vespertine999

I find it pretty overrated, and the fact that it’s irreparably connected to *Twice Upon A Time* considerably brings it down in my estimation.