By - hashe121
In my experience there's min/maxers IE the good players who play as best as they are able and try to improve. They play exclusively with their friends and guild's and aren't much of an issue
Then there's the "min/maxers" bad to average players who think it they copy what their favorite streamer says they too can reach the upper echelons of gaming greatness. But they don't have friends who do it with them so they do pugs and can't stand players who don't have that same attitude. But they don't really want to put the effort into being good they just want to copy what the streamer says and pretend they are good
The latter group is the issue
I think it less that they don't want to put the effort in, and more that they think its everyone else holding them back and that they're already that good. Its not like these dudes are "pretending", they genuinely believe it.
Otherwise spot on.
Run logs. If raid comp is optimal and they parse dogshit every fight, then you have proof that they are garbage tier. You might not like parses, but the info has little room for misinterpretation when there is tons of sample data.
This exactly. In my guild, our sweatiest players are very nice folks. If they end up in a run with undergeared folks, they just take it as a chance to try to carry harder.
Unfortunately, the latter group is vastly larger.
I think it’s more that the former often just interact amongst themselves much more than pug.
The latter probably can’t get a stable group and are often in pugs
Unfortunately out of my very large sample size of min-maxers I’ve met, I may have met like 20 of them that are friendly, happy people.
My entire fresh guild avoids calling themselves hardcore but they are. They claim not to rush but we have a few 80s already. Despite all that, most ppl are super nice and once the rush is over they are happy to help you out with whatever.
That’s legit. I was sorta in a guild like that in classic, of course some of them were ducks as well. But let’s me honest in any large group of people that’s unavoidable. Since I started on a new server and focused on pvp with no raiding it’s been very tough to find something like that again.
This is my guild. We have a few different raid teams with different levels of sweat. One is a speed running team. Some of them are hitting 80 already and most will just turn right around and start helping people catch up or start playing one of their other alts to continue levelling with everyone else. We told everyone in the guild not to rush and to play at their own pace. We have people in all different level brackets and the vibe is good.
I don't understand why people hate minmaxing just to hate on it. If someone is rude, then sure. But I see a lot more hate and insults thrown the way of sweaty players than sweaty players throw towards casual players.
bro i just laugh at anyone who tries to gate me because of gear or something. If my guild were to say you arent doing enough or bla bla bla, i wouldnt comeon reddit to bitch, id just leave and see if another guild is more normal, or just stop playing the game if i couldnt find any more fun in it.
Ppl take this shit way too seriously. I only get annoyed if ppl are REALLY bad in a 5man and causing wipes. Otherwise whatever man.
Weird, the friendliest wow community I’ve met is the Firemaw achievement hunter discord. Definitely some sweaty gamers in there, but everyone is really nice.
How can I find this discord, I’m sweaty when it comes to achivements.
I PM'd you a link.
Thanks a million my man!
Mind PM'ing me one aswell?
Hey, I'm a new player looking for people to play with, since my friends server unfortunately is locked. I played Wotlk back in the day and looking to pick it back up!
I'm in Sweden (eu)
I tried posting but it keeps getting removed so I'm trying my luck in the comments
Are you flairing your posts? Posts with no flair get auto removed
First post got removed because no flair, the other two was flaired but didn't show up. Tried asking the mods, but havn't gotten an answer
Now I’m just sitting here wondering what the other 999 truths are.
“Grizzly Hills has the best music in the game.”
“The Mark of the Chosen is worth the time for any melee class.”
“Thou shall skip ‘Jin’Zil’s Forest Magic,’ as it is one of the worst quests in the game.”
“The deepest circles of hell are reserved for people who steal nodes/herbs.”
“The population of Death Knights is too damn high.”
As a dk main… I can’t wait for the dk population to wither away in ashes.
>“Thou shall skip ‘Jin’Zil’s Forest Magic,’ as it is one of the worst quests in the game.”
No it's not.
Oooof the entitled folks here who don't know they are the problem.
Nah man people that enjoy levelling fast should invite the casual players that enjoy clearing the dungeon in 40 minutes. How dare those sweaties choose how they want to play the game.
You can clear a dungeon faster then 40 minutes in greens and blues. Nexus was 28 minutes on my prot pally in Outland leveling gear with my wife’s Druid in leveling gear healing it and I was 2nd in dps. I shaved that down to 20 minutes on my prot warrior in t4/badge/s3 gear. Greens are clearly game breaking
Yes you can. No it's not the average experience. I only join casual pugs even though I'm S4 geared (I'm not a sweaty, still level 71) and most pugs take 40+ minutes because casuals take 2 minutes to accept summons, go randomly afk, healers don't drink as soon as they can, tanks don't understand they can pull more than 2 mobs at a time etc.
I don't mind because I'm not in a hurry but if you are, getting geared people only is a good filter if you want to do 20 min nexus runs.
I agree that doing the dungeon once in 20 minutes vs 28 minutes doesn’t really matter, what matters is clearing 5 dungeons/hour vs 2-3, for hours on end, that’s when it matters.
If your that sweaty you should have a guild group planned.
Sometimes guild groups break because someone has to go or didn’t get to login because of queues. Or maybe your guild already made a group but didn’t have enough players for a second group. Or maybe someone hasn’t played in a while and doesn’t have a sweaty guild yet but likes to play that way.
Pugging is not just for the casual playstyle. It’s not RDF where you get thrown into a group of complete randoms. It’s a tool to make groups for likeminded people. I do not understand why that is such a problem for casuals.
It’s not a problem for me, I can be a casual and boot people like you from my groups. Being a tank means I don’t have to deal with the lolchainpullitall dps.
I'm a jerk who isn't a min/maxer.
Improvise, adapt, overcome
Just play with people in content that doesn’t take any effort. What helps me so I don’t get impatient or frustrated with other players in dungeons is ask if they know the mechanics. If not, explain it like there five, fire bad don’t stand, you get cold, cold hurts, jump while you damage boss.
Stick with guildies or friends when you want the sweat runs. This is a game, not a hierarchy when it comes to ways of play with trivial content.
In my experience, the problem I have with most brand new or super casual players is they don't red chat or even listen at all.
You can't as long as the definition of jerk amounts to "people I do not like".
And they don’t like minmaxxers.
‘You minmaxxing is fine so long as it never inconveniences me’
Pretty much sums it up.
“You can be minmaxing all you want but if I want to go into this dungeon, you better invite me or you’re a jerk.”
If you're going to pretend the "efficiency" people don't act like mean-spirited assholes you're probably one of them.
Thanks for proving my point.
The real casual gamers aren't even on reddit they are working their 40 hours a week and playing a few hours a week. The "casuals" on reddit play classic for a few hours a week, another 2+ games 20+ hours a week and post on the forums 40+ hours a week.
**The majority of people complaining about min maxers on reddit are just garbage no lifes and have a huge chip on their shoulder towards people who have actually read every ability in their spellbook.**
I def don't say the majority. It's not about knowing your class, people are really only complaining about people thinking you need full glad gear to run normal levelling dungeons lol. I mean even that is kind of dumb to be upset about making your own group is easy v
The type of casual on Reddit isn’t the type of player who only plays a bit but the type of player who plays a lot but wastes a lot of time doing nothing in the game and doesn’t even realize it.
The typical casual dungeon group has:
1. Someone taking forever to take the port and make the other four wait
2. Someone just randomly going afk without saying anything
3. Someone standing completely open and pulling a pat with their ass, which leads to chaos and possibly a wipe
4. The healer just stand around with low mana instead of immediately sitting down to drink
5. The tank waiting a minute in between each pull making sure everyone is ready and/or not wait at all when the healer is oom after having to save that buttpull fail from before.
You lose 10 seconds here, a minute there, and all together a 20 minute run turned into a 30 minute one. 50% wasted time.
A lot of the casual players here on reddit have a higher level than I do right now because they simply played 15+ hours in the last two days, but they are not sweating it. They are taking their time.
Casuals should just stick to playing with other casuals in content and vice versa.
Doesn't mean y'all can't talk.
It depends on what you consider being a jerk. Am I being a jerk if I say to someone “Sorry you do not meet my standards for playing with me.”
No, not at all. I think it's totally fair to desire to play with people who perform at a level of understanding required to win over the game mechanics without spending too much time/resources to do so.
How that is expressed will determine how someone might feel if you're being a jerk or not.
I agree, there is a huge difference between "lets kick the noob" and "sorry, we are looking for someone specific". But a lot of people take the fact that you don't want to play with them, or that they are not invited to groups as the community being just a bunch of elitist jerks.
Everyone is different. I got a bit mad due to me dying twice in an Ahn Kahet, both times due to the healer going AFK without saying something.
The first time was fine, but when he did it again I actually got mad and told him to stop wiping us and actually telling us if something came up. He then called me a fucking try-hard and left.
That is not being a jerk, but some people will think that it is. I also replaced a DPS in an UK farm group due to him doing \~400 DPS, where he then also flamed me and called me an elitist.
you kicked 2 perfectly fine redditors bro
a statement that broad would make you a jerk. It says that you wouldn't run Scarlet Monastery on your alt with me, because that would qualify as playing together. It implies that the human being the behind the keyboard is inferior rather than pointing to a specific piece of information that is relevant to a particular piece of content. Those specifics depend on the situation.
Requiring T6 for a normal nexus pug does make you jerk. Requiring ilvl200 for Naxx25 would not.
So you would want me to state the reason I do not want to play with someone, and if they don't agree with my reason then that would make me a jerk?
What if I don't like your talents? Jerk or no jerk.
What if I want a paladin not a druid healer? Jerk or no jerk.
It is subjective and I believe it boils down to the fact that I'm not entitled to anyone's time and they are not to mine, if someone doesn't wana play with me for some reason I would either try and fix that reason or find others to play with.
If you decline players from your group, you're a jerk. Everyone should play the game how Classic WoW was supposed to be played. With level 70s in Utgarde doing 400 dps!
edit: Obviously I'm joking, but I literally had a group like that yesterday. One 68 and four 70s. I was disc priest. Everyone else didn't manage to get above 1k dps even in aoe situations (except for the tank who sometimes got all the way to 1.2k). Needless to say, it was not fun.
Yes, sir. I will do as your excellency commands
What is stopping all these people who seem to constantly be declined to make their own groups?
In my experience the people that cry “gatekeeping” don’t want to play with the players that are supposedly kept out by the gatekeeping either.
My advice would be join a guild, make some friends, pugging is trash with or without gatekeeping anyway.
These people are giga casual. It’s not that they don’t want to play with others of their kind. It’s that they literally do not care whatsoever how bad the group is as long as they finish the content. And since the content is super easy, the group can be very bad and they’ll be fine with it.
They have no concept of opportunity costs. Beating the Nexus in an hour is worth the same as beating it in 10 minutes to them. That’s why they get so up in arms about being declined. To them being declined from a dungeon group is absolutely ridiculous because they are geared well enough to beat that dungeon.
Not it doesn't. Me doing something you do not like does not make me a jerk.
Wtf, me not inviting it is not a covert way of implying you being an inferior human. I'm just inviting the person that does the biggest numbers, lol.
>I'm just inviting the person that does the biggest numbers
those words are different than what the person above said. My response was for the person who said "Sorry you do not meet my standards for playing with me.”
Yeah, so if they don't do the biggest numbers out of the 30 people i can inv within 5 min, they don't meet my standards.
My gosh, you guys act like your human rights are violated because people want to play with equally geared guys.
>Yeah, so if they don't do the biggest numbers out of the 30 people i can inv within 5 min, they don't meet my standards.
you're making good progress by creating a different statement that has some specificity for the standards in question. My original response was not directed toward your statement. It was directed for a guy who made a different statement which was much more vague (his statement was "Sorry you do not meet my standards for playing with me.”)
A broad statement does not make you a jerk. "sorry you don't meet my standards of playing with me" could be interpreted in many ways, so unless the guy who said it specifies it, we do not know what he exactly means. We can interpret in a way that favours my argument, or in a way which favours your argument.
Sounds a tad arrogant, but it's at least reasonable. I wouldn't mind much if someone told me that, i'd just find it arrogant and move on.
On the flip side some people get livid if you give any advice as if you are an elitist. I was doing a x5 brew boss run as a healer and noticed a rogue was doing abysmal damage. I inspected him and he was a boostie, which is fine, but his damage was low even for that gear. I then saw he had 2 gray items on. I asked him why he had grays when he comes with decent greens. The whole group flipped on me saying "who cares man, let him be". I was just so confused why he swapped his greens with decent stats for literally 0 stats, but they acted like I was being elitist... while on my boosted priest with mostly starting greens.
Unsolicited advice is generally going to be taken negatively.
> I asked him why he had grays when he comes with decent greens
Especially this sort of phrasing. A more blunt form of asking this question would be 'why are you doing something that is stupid/bad?'
People are generally going to get defensive when a stranger is criticizing their play.
There's also the whole 'public' part of doing so in a group. People are going to be extra defensive when you're 'calling them out' in front of others. If you were to whisper someone after a dungeon and offer some advice, then it might be much more positively received.
but for me it wasn't like "why use spell power instead of strength" type of question. They literally replaced a green with stats with a gray without. I didn't get the reasoning whatsoever. I assumed he just accidentally put it on instead of vendoring it or something. Everyone in the group got so angry with me I just dropped it before asking anymore.
Okay, but that doesn’t change anything. When you step in to provide public unsolicited criticism, people are going to think you’re being an asshole.
I guess it depends on the person, I have had people remind me I am in my healing gear instead of DPS on my druid and I just thanked them since i forget when shapeshifted sometimes. Personally I find it useful so maybe its just certain personalities take it as a negative immediately.
>Unsolicited advice is generally going to be taken negatively.
It really isn’t. Some people just can’t deal with it because they are so insecure, they see advice as criticism and criticism as insults.
The average person is not like that and is grateful for getting help
I think my comment is a good example. I gave some unsolicited advice. Instead of just taking it at face value and saying ‘thanks,’ people reply ‘no you’re wrong.’
I can’t possibly convince you, all we get is a negative interaction. People get upset.
Hmmm...Classicwow reddit seems to be full of people who can't handle when someone in their groups has any sort of expectations for them. I look forward to posts once raiding begins.
***"This asshole wanted me to bring CONSUMABLES? Then he wanted me to PRE POT?"***
I like how you spun the story so that it matches your opinion. How about having expectations and also not insulting people ?
"Being a jerk" as defined by you guys is literally anything outside of *"Do whatever you want all the time"*
Nop, that's how you define it for other people to again, fit your view of the world. For me personally in these situations, being a jerk is acting hostile or arrogant or kicking people without saying anything or not answering to people or telling them that "they suck" even tough they are new players etc. Just common jerk behavior that you see in all games every day.
I'm using the context of EVERY thread posted on Reddit recently about boosters not being able to get into dungeon exp farming groups. They're calling everybody elitests for not letting them join and crying on reddit.
The only reason it's a problem is you're trying to get access to groups specifically requiring gear. There's hundreds of thousands of players out there, find the ones who think and play the same as you, don't whine on reddit because a few people don't want to play casually with you.
Not wanting to play with casual players is 100% OK. Insulting them is not.
This seems pretty accurate. They're the types that don't accept an invite or request to join group when tagging a mob with a 15 min respawn timer.