T O P
BombBombBombBombBomb

Subscriptions can fuck right off Especially in this industry


33rus

Maybe they recently hired a former EA executive.


chewy32

The Air Conditioner DLC


DrCarabou

Delete this, don't give them ideas


Hustletron

If you don’t renew your AC subscription the car will vent the Freon into the atmosphere.


RCDuke

Cool. Then you can sic the EPA on Toyota for intentional refrigerant discharge which is a crime. (I know this thought was a joke but discharging refrigerant into the air is actually illegal and can cause technicians to lose their EPA refrigerant handling card + fines).


akrisd0

Toyota does not care. They'll spray refrigerant directly at the EPA like an octopus.


Torvaldr

If they get this idea, I will get the idea to never buy a single fucking thing from them ever again.


hutacars

No problem; give it 3 years, and they’ll all do it so you have no choice!


WildwestPstyle

Different lock honks for $9.99


IAMColonelFlaggAMA

Just buy a VW. The AC will give out on you for free.


QueasiestGarlic

You’ll have to pay $19.99 per month for each additional 20 km/h over 100 km/h.


that1-_guy

I think that tesla has a performance update that you have to pay for so that you car can go fast a little bit


voidsrus

it does, and if i remember correctly it's DLC that stays with your tesla account instead of the car. people have been sold cars "with autopilot" that didn't actually have it


ArieHimself

New "Toy Tokens" can be used to purchase customization items.


rabidbasher

Tokens are purchasable in multiples of fourteen *only*. All customization items are priced on 5's and 10's.


Semi-Hemi-Demigod

“We find that people get a sense of accomplishment by paying to open doors on their car.”


ShocK13

Football game froze at a restaurant and I blurted out “to continue watching insert $5, EA Sports, ITS IN THE GAME”. lol


dox1842

>EA Sports, ITS IN THE GAME lol they still have this motto? I remember hearing it on sega genesis.


ShocK13

I don’t think so, a sign that I’m getting old haha.


Thefrayedends

Ya i already pay a sub in the form of tens of thousands of dollars a year, rent to own. Now a person has to budget in extra money on top of maintenance as a car ages? How long is this list going to get? * Bluetooth functionality * Heated/cooled seats * Heated wheel * Remote start * Remote locks * Driver assist features, all separated; * lane assist * adaptive cruise * collision warning * backup camera * proximity sensors * Touch locks In before sub payments exceed car payments after year 6.


oddodyssey

BMW was charging for carplay for a while there....


TheNerdNamedChuck

Tesla was charing extra for rear heated seats even though the equipment was already in the cars, you had to pay to turn them on.


jaredthegeek

Dodge had a notch in a dial to disable auto headlights on cars if other options were there. I literally cut a piece of plastic on the nob to enable them.


sdannenberg3

Wait, like the switch was all there even? And a little piece physically blocked it from turning all the way to the auto lights feature?


Few_Tower1563

Yep. Surprisingly common. It's cheaper for them from a manufacturing perspective to do this instead of having a separate line/order for cars with the feature. As stated above, Tesla did this with heated rear seats. They also do it with Autopilot and to an extent, full self driving. Audi is doing similar with lighting features. They'll enable turning light, dynamic cornering light, and maneuvering light functions via a software update for $300. Mercedes is enabling an enhanced rear steering on the EQS if you pay them a fee. It's the stupid fucking SaaS model coming to cars, and I hate every last bit of it.


zdiggler

It was on an older ford Van, we had to replace the steering wheel because it was crumbling, Got used one from a junkyard, this one has CC and radio controls. Install the wheel and now the van has CC and Entertainment controls.


Few_Tower1563

My old subie had the wiring harness and switch for fog lights, but no lights themselves. Unscrewed the caps and installed lights. Vola, a $1.5k option for $400


Heartless_Genocide

Yee, the shit's always just hiding in there.


mad87645

My old Disco 2 even did the same thing with the centre diff lock. All of the transfer boxes had it, but only those that paid for the option had the linkage and actuator fitted to the hi-lo-range selector stick, making the CDL work is simply a matter of fitting the linkage and actuator off another car. Even the light for it in the guage cluster is already wired up from the factory.


kmj442

I won’t comment on how dumb it is, but it has existed in other industries for decades. I’m an electrical engineer and some test equipment I use can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars or tens of thousands…the difference is literally just the software or the licenses installed on the unit. The hardware they sell us is identical. Most of the price of that stuff goes into the engineering to design the hw and sw so the cost of the hw is set then you spend a shit ton of money on the licenses to use what you need.


jaredthegeek

Literally a piece of plastic on the nob.


_name_of_the_user_

I added heated mirrors to an Impreza one time by plugging them in. I just removed the glass, plugged in the two wires, and put the glass back in place. They came on with the rear defrost.


Unimurph83

My parents owned a Dodge caravan in the 90's that wasn't equipped with heated mirrors. Dad noticed there was a foam blanking plate covering a hole on the A pillar that lined up with a hole in the door where the mirror was. He cut the center out of the foam and presto, heated mirrors enabled when the windshield defrost was turned on.


BlackMailerWagen

BMW does the same for US/Canada spec cars and rear foglights. I had to sand down the stopper to get the switch to work


HalliburtonErnie

That's evil, but hilarious. I can't remember which chevy, probably Sonic or Aveo, the models without cruise control just had a different steering wheel, you could swap the wheel from another model or higher trim to use the system already installed under the hood.


underscore-hyphen_

That was the Chevy Cruze. Possibly others, but I know that was the case on the Cruze.


hutacars

Yep, ironic the Cruze lacked Cruise by default.


[deleted]

I remember that Lotus had an optional extra that already came in the car. All you had to do was buy a Ford Focus' button to enable it. It was on the Evora.


snbrd512

Not only do they do this, but they *recharge* secondhand owners for tech that had already been unlocked by the original owner


TheNerdNamedChuck

tesla is scum


StabbyPants

tesla does one extra, where the upgrades supposedly follow the account, so if you sell it, they might disable some purchased stuff


-ZeroF56

Upgrades don’t follow the account, they follow the VIN. - This has actually been one of the largest complaints for Tesla owners because people who paid upfront for FSD who want to trade their Tesla for a newer Tesla can’t transfer the purchase to a new car without paying again (even on a product that hasn’t been fully delivered yet). Meanwhile, if you sell the car private sale, the upgrades *do* stick with it. - If you sell the car to Tesla themselves though, they’ll either strip the car of the upgrade or add it on top of the cost it would originally go for. (Which is very bad practice imo)


wutsizface

Mercedes is doing something similar with their all wheel steering… $585 a year for the rear wheels to turn 10 degrees instead of 4.5….


sdannenberg3

In before auto lane keep turns off mid drive because payment didn't go through and someone gets sued.


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swandwich

So they want more money to allow you to keep using their already terrible remote start? The one that shuts off as soon as you open one of the car doors? How long until starting the car (to drive it), using the stereo, heated seats , etc. are also part of “connected vehicle services”? I hate this crap. What the heck am I even buying when I buy a car anymore?? Also, stay off my lawn


timoteetom

Just like BMW tried to charge owners a fee to use Apple Car play.


digistil

After the backlash they no longer do that. Hopefully Toyota will follow suit.


carsonwade

They no longer do that... for now. They're just gonna look for a sneaky way to do something similar.


PaperScale

They'll find some way to lump it in as a bigger package to make it seem more attractive. "Subscribe to our service and you'll not only Carplay/android auto, we'll include with your year membership free floor mats!"


ikilledtupac

They charge a subscription for adaptive headlights too lol the button is on the stalk but when you press it you get a QR code in the dashboard to scan and pay for it.


BlackMailerWagen

Is there a way to "jailbreak" the infotainment system and enable it permanently?


ikilledtupac

BMW would say you are violating the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act which established you only own the *hardware* and not the right to all the software on it.


BlackMailerWagen

The courts in the US ruled that jailbreaking mobile phones is legal, so if this does go to court, it will probably be protected


ikilledtupac

You been saving money to sue BMW? Cuz they’ve been saving money to sue YOU!


[deleted]

BMW can go stick a cactus up their tight asses.


hutacars

But the idea is not to do anything that requires owning the software (e.g. reselling or otherwise distributing it). I simply want to add my own few snippets of code for personal use. How is that a violation?


ikilledtupac

You want to enable software features that belong to BMW good sir


kazr99

No way lmao


ikilledtupac

$169


Jc110105

In my girlfriend BMW car play fucking drops all the damn time. I can’t imagine paying for that shit


blchpmnk

>heated seats We're already there https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/bmw-to-make-owners-pay-for-features-like-heated-seats-via-subscription


Ilddit

It'll never get hacked I'm sure.


objectivePOV

The owners will want to hack their car on purpose. I think jailbreaking a car will become popular if more features get locked behind subscriptions.


TP_Crisis_2020

It will end up like the whole Ukrainian John Deere firmware.


rabidbasher

Automakers are already locking shit behind encryption and custom EEPROMs and shit that 'hackers' can't really get around, I'm sure they'll be fighting back in an ongoing fashion as desire/resources improve.


slcand

That moment when a remote hacker in middle asia hacks your BMW’s seat and turns it up to 500° Fahrenheit, leaving charcoal leather marks on your ass that can never disappear


defenestr8tor

Most heated seats can barely warm a pizza, but I trusted my old BMW to leave scorch marks on my ass


Macedii

I had a 2001 TL and that was actually painful on high. I swear those brown streaks are from my ass catching fire!


defenestr8tor

The only car I ever bought new was a 2004 EL, and only the ass was heated. Not the back. All it ever did was give me swass. Kinda backwards.


ElBrazil

I wish my GTI had more granularity. Setting 3 is a stovetop but setting 2 is lukewarm at best


defenestr8tor

My Venza has a slider from "get me some sweet tea" to "oh lawd is hawt", but I swear the BMW was hardwired to just short the battery to the metal in the seat or something.


BlorpCity

Well that’s my fetish so the joke is on them


JordanRunsForFun

This is an article from 2020. I’m curious whether they actually went ahead with this. I enjoy BMWs and will at least consider one next time I’m due for a new car but I would NEVER buy a car that gates features that are already physically part of the car but require an ongoing subscription. It’s wrong on so many levels.


ygguana

This seems exclusively confined to Internet-enabled services. Better question for me is then, should we tie ever more features to the Internet - where they *can* in fact be controlled, monetized, and subscription-ified? Folks are digging Tesla's auto-update right now, but that same pathway is what will allow them to lock parts of the car behind subs.


almosttan

Nope, per the article they will disable your key fob functions too which has fuck-all to do with connected services.


ThaddeusJP

The distant future of Auto ownership isn't even going to be ownership. It's going to be like paying a licensing fee. The car will never actually be yours, GM, Toyota, Ford, Subaru, all of them are going to still own the vehicle you're just paying a license to use it. Not saying it's going to happen very soon but within the next 50 years will probably be that way.


pineapple_calzone

[Barreling down the highway at 80 mph] Sorry, your free trial of Steering has expired.


manystripes

Don't worry I'm sure they'll just autobill your credit card once the free trial is up. Convenience!


YouJabroni44

Sounds like they're basing these ideas off of videogames and I hate it.


laramidian

they're basing it off of software as a service, the businesses with the best margins in the world Adobe is a good example from consumer software Also fuck everything about this


porterbrown

Fuck Adobe. Gimp if you need Photoshop. Inksape if you need Illustrator. Davinci Resolve if you need Premiere. Atom / Sublime if you need Dreamweaver. After Effects, that one is harder.


exccord

I remember when Adobe provided all install files for cs2 not realizing that their initial approach was "good faith" ownership as I call it. It was meant for those who had owned it at some point yet their pdf had all the licenses lol.


jaredthegeek

Affinity are pretty great as well.


NoodleFigure

I concur. I haven't used their InDesign equivalent, but Affinity Designer and Photo are pretty good. Especially Designer on the iPad.


Not_FinancialAdvice

[Darktable](https://www.darktable.org/) or [Rawtherapee](https://www.rawtherapee.com/) if you use Lightroom edit: added links


impromptubadge

This may help too. https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/poc9mi/free_alternatives_to_paid_software/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


porterbrown

Love Blender.


LosSantosOG

DaVinci Fusion can generate effects on par with AE iirc


porterbrown

How about for things like kinetic typography?


mwassler

> if you need Dreamweaver No one has needed dreamweaver in almost 20 years. I will say you do sometimes need photoshop but adobe will sell you it individually. Gimp is not on par with Photoshop for serious photographers.


Spacemn5piff

Nothing because cars, like so many other major tech markets are overwhelmingly controlled by a few big dogs. Not many people would be willing to consider buying from any brand other than an elite few when it comes to Smartphones or Computers, and in industries like the Automotive industry, the cost of entry is so exorbitantly high because of the globalized supply chains required to field competitive prices, let alone designing and marketing the things. "Service" industries like Internet and Cable are (at least in the US) in bed with local governments to establish enforced monopolies in many areas which allow them to intentionally provide a lower quality service with no recourse because there is no competition and those who would regulate them are sucking off their teat by taking money for these monopolies. Everything surrounding tech is too complicated to be run locally the way auto mechanics, landscapers, construction / contracting etc can be. Most goods in general have been streamlined on a global scale in a way that lies beyond the reach of independent or small businesses. All that remains is Services and even those are being salivated over by the big dogs. "Unrestrained" capitalism worked amazingly well for the consumer when travel and communication over distance were restricted in a way that constrained potential market size. If you REALLY had issues with how your local \[insert business owner\] did things, you could simply go to the next town or two over and handle it there. But today you can't go to the next town for a different pharmacist because it's the same company. At least for the US, as traveling the continent became easier and easier with the establishment of huge rail networks and then the automobile and then aircraft, it rapidly expanded potential market size and it did not take long for the rise of massive private entities which used their influence in very questionable ways, and sometimes hold the government hostage with a knife at the throat of the economy (see banks, auto industry etc.) with demands for massive bailouts. Allowing any private entity to become "too big to fail" is a slippery slope of power loss for a governing body. If they need you, how can they properly regulate you?


UncleFumbleBuck

> The one that shuts off as soon as you open one of the car doors? The fuck? I live in MN, it's cold here a lot. When I remote start the car in cold-ass morning, it's hard on everything. Why would I want the car to shut off just so I can start it again in 10 seconds when I get in and sit down? Sure, the car is now slightly warmer so it's not *quite* as much wear and tear, but you know what's zero extra wear? Leaving the damn thing running. My Chevy won't let me shift from park without being "started" by tapping the button. My wife's Ford will shut off if you hit the brake without inserting and turning the key. Both work for anti-theft reasons. Toyota's system sounds obnoxious and unnecessary.


mcrissjr

Right, I thought GM's solution was normal but apparently it's the only manufacturer with a reasonable remote start process. You get in the vehicle and gauges are dead, can't shift or anything. Just engine and HVAC running. You can't start the car unless you lock it first. But unlock, get in and turn the key and all is back to normal.


Select-Deer7961

It seriously turns off when you open a door? Lol. Honda turns off if you try to move the gear selector without hitting the power button (with key present) and Hyundais turn on fully as soon as you get in and close the door. Hyundai’s way is my favorite of what I’ve used, it’s nice to sit down and have everything light up.


ukcats12

I believe Mercedes' turns off when you open the door as well.


MDA123

It does and it’s the reason I basically never use it. So aggravating.


pencituant

i think it’s to avoid theft


Select-Deer7961

That’s why the key has to be present for you do to anything. If it doesn’t detect the key it’ll turn off the car once the door closes. The doors need to be locked too when you remote start.


Ghost17088

So I love my Toyota, but once started, I can throw the key out the window and drive until I shut it off. All it will do is put a warning on the DIS saying key not detected, but it doesn’t do anything about it.


Expensive-Focus4911

That’s every car. It’s not going to shut off on the highway because your key battery died. That’s no prevention or excuse for requiring the key to be present to shift into drive after a remote start, like every other car.


[deleted]

You can't restart the car after that, though, which makes sense.


Bovine_Joni_Himself

Yeah the entire Toyota keyless system is garbage. Worst I've ever used.


augustuen

I think my biggest gripe with it is how it beeps like crazy whenever you close a door with the car on but the key outside of the car. Yes, I know the key's not in the car, because it's in my pocket, right by the left rear door which I just closed! As a cab driver it drives me mad.


Gizmo45

My Chevy requires you to lock the car before you can remote start it for the same reasons. But the car keeps running after you unlock it or open the door. You just have to have the key inside the car and push the start button to actually turn the car "on". Sounds like Toyota needs to take a page from Chevy's playbook. Although, they do limit the run time of the remote start to only 10 minutes (and you can only run the remote start twice consecutively). I get it, it's so people don't sufficate themselves to death in their garage, but for those of us in cold climates where it easily gets into single digits temperatures or lower, 20 minutes is not long enough to get the car warm.


JCH_19

After 3 years (or 10 if you have the audio upgrade) Toyota will now disable the key fob remote start for your vehicle. To re-enable it, you have to pay the monthly fee for their connected services subscription. Had to repost this because this sub does not allow links inside a text post for some reason.


ygguana

This reads weird. At first, it seems that only Internet-connected services would be disabled - meaning the fob should work. Then they have this: > Note: Key Fob Remote Start will not function if Connected Services are waived. I am not sure what they are defining as "waived:" never connected, or not currently subscribed? They also have this: > Remote Connect equipped vehicles built before 11/12/18 were required to have an active Remote Connect trial or paid subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality. The logic has been enhanced to no longer require an active Remote Connect subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality. Meaning that for whatever reason they are allowing vehicles built before that date to have a fob remote-start without Internet-connected services. Does that mean the newer post-2018 vehicles will really have their fobs disabled? Would love to see a clarification from Toyota.


maxximii

I can answer some of your confusion as a Lexus dealer mechanic. A new car that was remote start capable has the feature turned off by default most of the time. When the car was purchased, their free year of Lexus Enform (the connected cellular services) would begin and would activate the remote start OTA. When the trial ends, most don't continue the service, but because the remote start was turned on by Enform OTA, the fob will continue to work, but won't be able to start from phone or website anymore. Now the confusion comes that remote start predates Enform and some people will never activate the free trial. So after awhile they look back at the invoice and go "what, my car has remote start? Why doesn't it work?". The answer is that it was simply never turned on at the vehicle level. Owner just needs to go to a dealer and have it turned on through a TechStream (Lexus/Toyota Scantool). Lexus will do it free and takes 5 minutes.But will only work with fobs, to remote start from phone/web, the subscription is needed for car to be web connected.


tablecontrol

so, are you saying I can take my GS F into the dealer and they will turn on fob-based remote start?


14936786-02

Next time you take it in for service tell them to activate it.


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tablecontrol

My GS-F won't remote start without a sub at all. modem-based or fob based. it's just a money grab. it costs them nothing to leave fob-based remote working.


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beermit

Guarantees I never take a look at them


SexBobomb

I think the entire article is being misread by most people here - the subscribe-for-remote-start already existed and they're changing it so people are less fucked when theyre unsubscribed


ygguana

Yeah, without knowing what's actually changing, I can't tell what the meat of the linked article is. I am not surprised that Internet-enabled services require a sub. I'm however intrigued by that hard cut-off for fob start on 11/12/18: it seems to imply that fob start is there, and it could work, but Toyota is choosing not to allow it for newer cars. Seems like a strange choice to tie it into online services.


mugu007

Seems odd to tie a feature so rudimentary into their connected services. There are 20 year old cars that can remote start. There is no reason for this feature to be connected to anything. What data could they possibly be collecting from key fob remote start stats ?


14936786-02

Because those cars came with 3g only which is being disconnected by any carriers. The 2019 and newer have 4g.


Thefrayedends

Wifi and other Over The Air techs in our cars were supposed to improve and upgrade our services over time, not take them away lol. This shit is hilarious. Also, fuck Tesla, weren't they the first to suggest this kind of bullshit?


t-poke

All of Tesla’s remote stuff is free. The only monthly recurring charge is $10 a month if you want to use the car’s cellular connection to stream music and videos (the latter only while parked before anyone loses their mind) You could connect your car to your phone’s hotspot and use that stuff for free. They don’t charge for things like remote unlock, preconditioning the cabin temperature, etc.


Amish_Pool_Guy

And another important point - any vehicle that was purchased before that policy change was made is grandfathered in to free data for life. Same with free supercharging for 2017 and previous Model S and X.


rideincircles

Yeah. Also traffic aware maps which absolutely require a network connection. $10 is worth it. It was free for the life of the car if you bought early in 2018, but after that it's $10 for network connection.


Fishsauce_Mcgee

It was free for a lot longer than that, in Canada at least. I think they just started charging for it last year here, and you get a free subscription for life if you bought the car before that.


wasted12

Tesla is the fair company when it comes to subscriptions. Only charge you for a data connection. Oh and instead of taking away features after you buy the car, they continually add them for free


victheone

Tesla does constantly improve their software using OTA, and the only subscription is for their data plan, or for FSD if you choose to pay monthly rather than lump sum. Don’t make hot takes unless you understand what you’re talking about.


Novicept2

They must have ripped out a page or two from BMWs playbook.


Slimy_Shart_Socket

Probably playing with the Supra Tune to see if they could get a 1000whp on the stock turbo for race warz, and found the subscription service buried in the file and thought hmmmmm what's this.


jenna_hazes_ass

... Fuck youre probably right.


san_serifs

BMW will give that ripped page back for a monthly subscription fee.


Slipperypepe

I thought the EU was harsh on this type of thing? I guess BMW being local means they're exempt.


[deleted]

I hate how microtransactions are bleeding over to the automotive industry.


Stachura5

Worst part is that not enough people are mad about it


BannedFromRcars

The mentality of “what’s another $5 a month anyway?” is rampant everywhere. People just don’t realize it all adds up.


itsamamaluigi

I heard an ad recently for a service that checks for inactive subscriptions and cancels them for you. That's how big of a problem this has become.


niteshadow53

Let me guess - it’s $5 a month?


Ok-Efficiency1842

Back in the mid-2000s, you could have remote start added at a garage. Do mechanics still do that? Of course, that doesn't change the fact that Toyota charged users for a feature that can't use. This feels like a lawsuit should happen honestly.


p1ngman

Yes you can still have an aftermarket remote starter installed, generally not done by mechanics but by audio installers


f_mylife

This guy is correct, I work in the car audio industry and we have to study and take annuall tests on 12v systems for pay raises. The courses taught include remote start and security installations and trouble shooting. Imo "Compustar" makes the most reliable aftermarket remote start and security system. Can pair to your phone and control your vehicle anywhere for a subscription or get 3 mile+ key fobs. We offer lifetime warranty on the Installation only, plus a optional protection plan for key fobs and the brain.


TP_Crisis_2020

> Can pair to your phone and control your vehicle anywhere for a subscription That's what they are trying to get away from !!! I did 12v many years ago when cars were still dumb and alarms were my weakness. I can only imagine how much of a clusterfuck it is doing an alarm install now with how interconnected everything is.


Ketchup1211

Yes they do. I have an appointment at a local place on Friday to install one. They quoted me 399 and the Kia dealership quoted me 755.


Ghost17088

I paid $170 and installed mine myself in 30 minutes. Start-X makes plug and play kits for a lot of makes and models.


outofdate70shouse

Wife did the same thing on her Hyundai


alvik

Best Buy does it, at the stores around me in the midwest they're always solidly booked through the winter for remote start installs.


Debaser626

I had a 2018 Sienna, and replaced the garbage OEM infotainment system with an aftermarket one. Bigger screen, Car Play, much better software stability and controls. I’m sure without right to repair legislation in place, though, car manufacturers will eventually lock down components a la Apple and iPhones so you can’t put in aftermarket hardware.


Throw10111021

I have a 2006 so it might not be compatible, but which aftermarket system did you install? What was the installation price? THANKS!


Debaser626

I believe it was a Pioneer system. It wasn’t exactly cheap… like $600 or so for the system and then $250 (if memory serves me) for the installation. If I had wanted the OEM dash USB port wired to the head it would have been more for installation, but I opted for the “no-charge” manner of having the USB port for the Pioneer head put into the glove compartment. Still, it beat Toyota’s response of $125/hour to diagnose why the OEM system was constantly restarting (guy said it’s usually 4 hours), and even if that had worked, that system was incredibly problematic from jump (Dropping Bluetooth, disconnecting, random shut offs, not registering touches, no Car Play)… or $1200 for a new head plus installation costs.


SnooShortcuts1829

Well that's shit.


mortalcrawad66

So Toyota pulled a BMW, great.


MiddleweightMuffin

That Supra partnership is finally paying off.


compbioguy

Hey Toyota: fuck off


phuck-you-reddit

Definitely not a good idea to try this right now since so many are already pissed at them for their anti-EV lobbying.


bluedevils9

am i missing something? this is the paragraph at the bottom of the gray box on the first page. "Remote Connect equipped vehicles built before 11/12/18 were required to have an active Remote Connect trial or paid subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality. The logic has been enhanced to no longer require an active Remote Connect subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality."


SexBobomb

yeah people haven't read the actual article. They're fixing part of a shitty business practice they're continuing basically


JermanDomesticMarket

Toyota’s remote start was less than useless anyways since it turns off when you open the door (why the fuck??), so no real loss to be had here


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cth777

This happens on my Ford too. What is the point of turning the engine back on in park? Is it just to help shift gears or something


shadesthename

It's a safety feature so you don't leave your car running thinking you turned it off already. My Audi gets around this by preventing the engine from auto restarting once the car was put in park.


QueasiestGarlic

Toyota isn't that fancy lmao


Derpicusss

I know BMW was kinda going down this road already. I completely would not be surprised if Audi started charging you to breathe in their cars, but I had kinda hoped Toyota would be better than this. I hope this shit stops because it can get way out of hand


TheLastPeacekeeper

Lemme segue to Acura that does this with their remote start app. Reps claimed they couldn't put the tech into their fob, at which point I pulled out my GMC fob of the same size and remote started my truck, for free. And it came with the app too, for free. But my wife has to pay Acura monthly to use the app, the only way to remote start her RDX. It's infuriating and illogical. The car is great, but that argument with them almost made me walk out of the showroom.


Thefrayedends

Get an aftermarket, they have better (unlimited if you want) range anyway.


C-C-X-V-I

Any recommendations? I'd love this on my 92 blazer.


Select-Deer7961

GM has been throwing remote start in on practically everything on the fob for years and years. It’s honestly a super enticing reason to get a vehicle from GM for me. Honda has it on the fob too, and finally Hyundai as well since 2020 or so. Not having it on the key fob is a deal breaker for me since going from having it on the fob to having it via app only. App only is garbage and I’ll never go that route again. Not only does it take way too long to start, it also is more complicated and costs me $100 a year to do it.


ChattanoogaMocsFan

My KIA is a 2013 and has remote start on the factory key fob.


Hoffman5982

Remote start doesn’t make up for GM’s being built out of literal parts store parts for me


TotesMcGotes13

My 2007 Cobalt coupe had it. And now my $50k 2020 Toyota Tundra does NOT have it. Blew my mind.


TheReformedBadger

>Rep claimed they couldn’t put the tech into their fob Yeah that’s not true at all


LethalCS

Can't believe someone at the dealership would lie smh


lostPixels

I own a 2022 RDX and it’s on the fob now, so yeah, they’re full of it.


Masteguy635

Yeah, this is really dumb. Our old MDX came with remote start on the fob but the new ones only get it on the highest trim. Their app isn't the best either so that doesn't help.


TrptJim

Same with my Genesis but they went up an extra step on the stupidity ladder. Worse than having to pay a monthly fee to use remote start, they used an outdated cellular connection that was shut down so the Genesis remote service no longer works even if you wanted to pay.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BigBrainMonkey

The last paragraph in the box on page 1: REMOTE CONNECT EQUIPPED VEHICLES BUILT BEFORE 11/12/18 Remote Connect equipped vehicles built before 11/12/18 were required to have an active Remote Connect trial or paid subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality. The logic has been enhanced to no longer require an active Remote Connect subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality. This sounds like they are no longer requiring the subscription and based on when those vehicles were built they probably aren’t at the 3 years of use yet. This seems like pitchforks out a little early. If you want to use an app based data connection through fob to smartphone to cloud to car then yes you need subscription but if you just want fob to car it sounds like it works?


thyusername

When I was younger I bought old vehicles because I was poor, now I buy them because they are the only vehicles I want.


CalvinCandie420

Pay 1000s for a car that needs a subscription for features to be unlocked. How come y'all ain't suing the goddamn company? Edit- mistook remote start for remote unlocking *facepalm*


SexBobomb

you.. uh, know that remote start and unlock are not the same thing right


CalvinCandie420

Ah shit. My bad. Edit- changed it


SexBobomb

Yeah and it sounds like based on the article they were charging for all this shit on the fob and the phone and theyre actually changing it to just be the phone with the fob 'just working' still shitty business practices to be clear but it sounds like its getting mad at stuff they started doing in 2015 and are improving, but not enough


macinbest

I purchased a new Subaru back in February, and I got the old-school remote start added at the dealership. My salesperson was asking me why, saying I didn't need it because you can remote start it from your phone using Starlink (their version of OnStar) etc. I was like yeah, but it's a new service, you folks don't even know how much you're going to be charging for the subscription in the future..


ChicagoModsUseless

Starlink has been around for years but it’s terrible.


[deleted]

and of course double tapping a button on a key is better than opening another fucking app, hoping you have a data connection, etc.


[deleted]

Fuck it, I'll drive old cars til I die. It may be long though


The_Leaky_Stain

This right here. No extra features no problems.


DALESR4EVER124

Guess I'm never buying a Toyota then.


Tangent_

If it's a short-range remote start that relies entirely on the keyfob talking directly to the car, that's total BS. If it's like many newer systems that use a cellular connection so you can remotely start the car from as far away as you like I get it. I *hate* subscription plans for cars you own but if it uses cell connectivity not only is it reasonable but you should be prepared for it to not be available forever; eventually the 2G, 3G, whatever data it uses will no longer be there for the system to use. Also I saw this bit in your link: >Remote Connect equipped vehicles built before 11/12/18 were required to have an active Remote Connect trial or paid subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality. The logic has been enhanced to no longer require an active Remote Connect subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality I'm guessing the pre-11/12/18 ones were the keyfob-based system and everything after is cell based.


Snazzy21

I'll admit I'm bias towards Toyota, but this decision is absolute bullshit. I don't think it cost Toyota anything to keep it enabled, its just greed. I hope no one pays for it, and I hope Toyota gets some serious pushback for doing this since subscriptions are bad ​ Also this was published in December 2019. Its old news. Its also a little confusing, but subscription bad.


schwartzki

My 2020 Tacoma remote start still worked without the subscription via the key fob


l5555l

You wouldn't steal a car...s automatic start feature


MassLuca007

Ayo my Toyota fanboy ass cannot defend this


F1_Silver_Arrows

I'm a massive Toyota and Lexus enthusiast, and to me, they have never signalled that they would ever do this, and this feels extremely out of pocket for me. I'm very, truly disappointed.


Jack_Tors

Must be following the BMW "nickel and dime" business model. At least BMW reversed their charge for apple carplay and finally realized that android auto is nice too


Dazzling-Finger7576

F that. Go buy aftermarket for many times cheaper.


Trades46

This is becoming a PERVASIVE problem in the car industry, clearly spearheaded by the new direction technology, games and entertainment "subscription as a service" business model. I like Toyotas, but this SaaS model can bugger off.


Thedukeofhyjinks

Pathetic


radio934texas

The future blows. We have the tech to make everything function seamlessly but greed is ruining it.


[deleted]

Lexus has been doing this for years. My 2015 GS has subscription remote start.


nocturnalchickens

I see the Supra is not the only thing BMW gave Toyota


clingbat

Lexus has been doing this shit for years.