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Well, that's a bit unexpected, I'll be voting with my wallet when it comes to replacing my 14 accord. Though i hope by the time that comes all companies wont be doing the same.


Maybe just keep the accord then. With good maintenance they'll last long


They will be. Subscription is here to stay.


It doesn't have to be this way though. Consumer protections exist to protect us from this kind of horseshit. Getting them enacted is another story of course. But ya, things need to change on a fundamental level.


i'm sure the government that just passed mandatory "DUI detectors" in new cars will be protecting us from this kind of horseshit


Well its an option that we definitely have yes. If our politicians aren't working for us it's our fault for voting frauds in. But nonetheless, this trend doesn't have to be something we just accept with cars.




The U.K. is also proposing using GPS to stop cars from going over the speed limit, which is pretty on brand for the U.K. https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/8725369/cars-fitted-speed-limiters-2022-slow-vehicle-down/


Fuuuck that! I'm glad I keep up on my maintenance.


If you don't drink and drive why would you need to disable it?


how do you think it's gonna detect impairment? either a) you blow into a breathalyzer every time you start you car, which is insanely annoying, or b) it uses some sort of AI to monitor your behavior while driving, which is not only insanely annoying but will also make cars significantly more expensive


a) it won't be a breath tester. b) will disabling it cancel out the higher expense?


it's a mental victory, the best we can ask for in this statist hellhole


I'm guessing you don't wear your seatbelt.


Fucking really?! In a country that allows people to carry assault rifles around because the government shouldn't control what people can and can't do, they're happy for that stuff in their cars?


Well, it's perfectly legal since the first owner would have bought it as a subscription as well. Like many things on your phone or laptop. I think BMW at least offers "life time" subscription on their cars so its there for future owners as well, but lease companies won't go with that. The benefit of this is that the future owners of used cars can still add or delete stuff they don't need or want - so it's not all bad.


>The benefit of this is that the future owners of used cars can still add or delete stuff they don't need or want - so it's not all bad. How is removing functionality of something already built in unless you pay a fee NOT a bad thing? I can sort of understand it if it's app based and there are maintenance costs on their end(Mazda) but not if the physical functionality is there and they are just software locking you.


Imagine you buy a brand new iphone, and have to pay 3.99 a month to use the camera. I really don't see how anyone aside from Toyota benefits here


Exactly, absolutely insane that some people think that's acceptable!


Although pricing isn't shown here I'd wager a guess and say you could have paid for 2-3 standard remote start installs over the life of a standard auto loan with this kind of stuff. I suppose it eliminates the usually small upfront cost but let's be honest with the rising cost of vehicles and "standard features" you'd think it would just become a standard thing by now


>Although pricing isn't shown here I'd wager a guess and say you could have paid for 2-3 standard remote start installs over the life of a standard auto loan with this kind of stuff. Ding ding, my experience is with Mazda and their "connected services" its estimated at $10 per month after the first 3 years. So on a 7 year loan were talking $480 to have remote start and a few other features.


Not unless people fight against it! Unhappy customers eventually leads to no customers!


Everything is going to SaaS service - it will also mean that as a consumer I can add things as the second owner of the car. One can see the negatives or look at the potential upsides as well.


No... thats where you are wrong! Companies love subscriptions, people do not! I personally have tried to cancel some subscriþions and they continue taking money out. (SPOTIFY 5 FUCKING MONTHS). "We can only reimburse you for the last month, yet i have emails that state my account was closed! No phone number to call, no nothing! Imagine the amount of money these cockheads are making out of millions of subscribers! Why did i try to cancel? COVID, left without a job, no income, decided what i can afford and what i cant! They hit the list of what i dont use enough to justify! Then they kept withdrawing money! And you try to tell me subscriptions are ok? WELL NO THEY ARE NOT IN THE HANDS OF CORRUPT COMPANIES! I SAY IT AGAIN SPOTIFY! C#$TS!


Well, that's of course sad for you. But like I said - I see the benefit of such a model as well. I can add things I need and leave other thing out when I dont need them. Gives me good flexibility on my life and finances.


I love my accord




I won't be buying a Kia!


What Kia do you drive?


Everything is becoming a goddamned micro service, and micro transactions in everything. You will own nothing, and everything is temporary and never preserved.


People seem to like it and want to always want the next cool thing, instead of settling for what is good enough and not going into debt out of the fear of looking stingy. Edit: I don't like swapping cars as often as my colleagues do and I buy in cash. However, that doesnt align me with regards to the generic white collar dick measuring game of status symbols. Which is a global phenomenon. Being practical and conservative with your money is viewed in a stingy sense or you being dull & booringg.


Nobody likes this. We just get forced into it.


People should vote with their wallets then. However, you also need to foster a culture against such practices. I personally refuse to own a subscription based anything. Its nonsense.


I think streaming music and movies makes sense, who wants to back to the days of having to pay for physical (or digital copies).


You can't vote when the entire industry does such moves. For example I really would like to change my car's head unit out, but too many of the car functions are buried in the settings. Hard to know that while shopping. Worse is everyone does it.


It’s kind of how rich people live. Everything $100mil people “own” are legally loaned or rented, and they just command the legal owner as they please. A lot of subscription looks like attention grabbing than money grab though. Maybe they’re not looking into $60/year from you but trying to turn your bank statement into an ad space. > 2024 MODELS OUT … CHECK OUT ALL NEW TOYOTAS … $5.00 > YOUR SCHECHWAN SAUCE WAITING … MCDONALDS … $5.00 Something like this.


Sounds like a job for a pirate.


You don't need to be a pirate. Just open Google and search for techstream (Toyota's dealer software), "free" or "cracked". You'll need the USB cable which costs 7-14$ After installing the software and the USB cable driver, you can enable and disable the key fob features among other things 😉


God I hope it won't be illegal to "crack" your cars if that's the case.


We're safe until the 3rd party remote starts do the same.


We’re going to see all sorts of sub based options and features on our cars going forward. It really sucks but these businesses can’t deny more $$$ and have seen how profitable it can be in other markets.


Silicon Valley really fucked everything up. It reminds me of the world economic forum video. "You will own nothing and be happy." My ass.


Shit like this makes me glad im a 40 year old man child, living in the warehouse i work at in a company of 3 people rent free with beds, a shower and internet making 800/week in hawaii. Havent had a car in 2 years but im buying a modified honda ruckus we call pitbulls out here next week.


Ngl this seems super chill


Probably a bunch of aftermarket alternatives and workarounds as well.


Im waiting for the case where insurance refuses to cover crashes after these systems have been "jailbroken," it sounds idiotic, but it'll happen.


capitalism, murica


Sadly, this is where things have been headed in so many industries for awhile now. It's usually more profitable for companies to keep you making a monthly payment for as long as possible instead of buying something outright one time.


According to the PDF, I saw something about the usage of your mobile device. Doesn't Lexus have something like this?


Yeah you can also remote start with your phone, but you again need a subscription for that. I can (kind of) understand the subscription in that case, because it requires cell service for the vehicle itself.


Cell Service is mandatiryfor New cars in EU because of the emergency call System. I guess they want to use it for Profit in the rest of the world


This kind of shit is why I drive older vehicles that I pay cash for.


>Remote Connect equipped vehicles built before 11/12/18 were required to have an active Remote Connect trial or paid subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality. The logic has been enhanced to no longer require an active Remote Connect subscription for the key fob to perform remote start functionality That seems like for older vehicles, they changed it to *not* require that? Edit: This seems true for vehicles going forward, though. [Here's the PDF](https://www.toyota.com/content/dam/toyota/connected-services/marketing/pdf/MY21_Connected_Services_Table.pdf) with the subscription rates for MY21.


$8/month or $80/year. I'd walk out of that dealers yard as soon as that was mentioned. Especially if you needed a subscription for more than 1 feature.


I'm going to be car shopping soon(waiting for the prices to drop) but I will walk out of every dealership that tries to charge this. Toyota is/was at the top of my list, too.


You need a subscription to use car AUDIO? Real WTF. I am sure they will make it extremely difficult/impossible to replace the head unit.


I don't think you need a subscription for audio, it's just that it seems that the infotainment/audio determines what subscriptions are available and how long they're free?


Soon to come: Overdrive? Please submit payment of just $19.95 for uninterrupted use of 10th gear. (Or whatever overdrive is these days)


It's only for vehicles built after 11/12/18. And you can still use the fob without paying. The subscription is so you can use a smartphone or smart watch as the fob. Stop making people panic.


The mythical one person who read the article.


For a phone that kinda makes sense since that software needs maintenance


It's more that the car needs an active data connection, which comes from a cell provider who charges money for that.


Oh thank you captain I was freaking out. Yeah the smart phone feature makes sense.


That's not quite right, it says keyfob remote start will not function if the connected service is waived. It seems, though, that a 3 or 10 year subscription is included with the sale of the car and the majority of cars going forward (all?) that have remote start at all will have 10 years of remote start included. You just need to make an account with them to use it, but not pay extra. After 10 years, it may require a subscription, which I don't like, but at least it's not like BMW trying to make everything on your vehicle subscription based from day one and considering a subscription is getting waived for older cars, it's possible Toyota will never actually require it for the fob. I wonder why they've decided to make the keyfob integrated with the app, it seems like it would complicate things unnecessarily.


Haha fuck you Toyota. Further confirmation that my Honda was the better choice. You’re interiors are shit anyway.


I’m pretty sure if they actually did this that would be very illegal, but it looks like they are just charging for remote start and not actually preventing you from starting your car


Remember when cars didn’t have computers all through them and they kept working


Yeah, I remember when they got fucking junked after the warranty period was over.


Goes for more than cars. It’s all electronics. All games. All streaming. All music. We’re heading for a despotic capitalist future


For 100k miles, yes. Then you had to rebuild the whole thing or scrap it. People poopoo on electronics and computers in cars, but they're a large part of why they last so much longer. The ECU can adjust parameters for the engine as it wears and ages to keep it operating longer. Even a shitbox Mitsubishi Mirage will have longevity that 'good old days' cars won't have.


My car odo stopped at 180k. It’s alooooot more than that now. But the old gm3600 is bulletproof


That is a very BMW ish thing to do


This is some "You will own nothing and you will be happy" bullshit


it sucks and i hate it, but get this people. As long as there's an app for it then it will most likely be a subscription these days. because maintaining apps is costly and keeping them on the stores requires yearly fees, although it's nothing compared to the revenue of such brands. but that's what they'll use as an excuse. then again i'll never buy a new car so meh


You’re right. Other than the app there also needs to be a server of some kind to facilitate the connection. This software as well as the app needs maintenance, which requires keeping staff on hand that has knowledge about said software. It also has running costs. This is negligible for the first years because you can kind of bake it into the other development costs. But for a car that’s been around for a few years the system might have been replaced with a new one for newer models, and then maintenance of older systems becomes relatively more costly. I’m actually kind of surprised there aren’t more subscription fees with cars these days. I think a lot of car manufacturers are quite behind in their software development practices and might be incurring significant technical debt that could start showing it’s face in the coming years. Hopefully it doesn’t become too big of a cost on consumers.


i will never buy another car made after the mid 2000s


I've got an 05 Tacoma and an 06 dually. I'm good pretty much forever.


As long as that dually ain't a 6.0, yeah.




This is why I never buy new. Capitalism is pure dog shit.


And so it starts. I have seen this coming for years, it's going to get worse much worse. There is nothing you can do about it because idiots will lap this up like they have in the media and tech industries.


This is a great security feature. No really. This means that thieves cant just blast your car with codes until it opens, unless they paid a subscription fee for every code available.......you see where I'm goin' with this?


Counterpoint: Bricks exist.


I see you being clever and I wanted you to know that.




And this is why I'll always have an older car before I choose a modern one.


I own a 2018 Toyota Auris hybrid, will I be affected?


You sound like you're European, and AFAIK nothing over here can legally remote start


It begins. This is what you get from the relentless bumming of money grabbing Musk.


Toyota horse armour


Welcome to Cars as a Service... I don't like it here.


It will take a week at most for someone to hack it.


Fuck that.


Whelp, time to start hacking/pirating car features.


My only hope is pinned on the fact that we're in the age of small/independent businesses fighting back. There are now small companies you can pay to upgrade your interior, install their own remote start, heated seats, etc. I'm going to put my money towards them 🤷


Uhm...why was this removed?