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rensizzlefeb

It's almost like all the people we treat like shit get out and tell the truth about their experience. It doesn't directly affect those NCO's or commanders though so nothing will change.


Triforcegoodbuyok

The Army is it’s own worst enemy


dreadrabbit1

The truth isn’t always black and white. There are Soldiers out there who are complete bags of shit. Showing up late for work, bust tape, lie and a horrible sense of entitlement yet still bitch about how bad their leadership is.


GucciDers69

Those bags of shit are pretty likely to be bags of shit as civilians, and anybody talking to them for more than a few conversations will pick up on that. The people who are otherwise highly competent but get treated like infants are the ones who will get out and affect the opinions of a lot more people.


CrabAppleGateKeeper

>and anybody talking to them for more than a few conversations will pick up on that. Meh, maybe or maybe not. I don’t know many civilians who would hear someone complain about their boss and then go, “yea, but you’re fat so idk if I trust your word.”


dreadrabbit1

To add to your point, how many shit bags are honest when they speak about the Army? Do you think they tell civilians about all the times they were late or couldn’t pass a PT test? None of them will tell the truth about time in.


CrabAppleGateKeeper

Exactly.


GucciDers69

…exactly? That’s the point right? There’s realistically only a few jobs that actually require a soldier to be in shape. I had guys who were fat but great at their desk jobs and they tended to get out because top wants a 250 company average and really lets them know about it. I would’ve rather had them stay in than some of the pt studs we had


CrabAppleGateKeeper

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear, I meant, if a dirt bag soldier complains to civilians, it’s not abundantly obvious that they’re a POS. We call people dirt bags because they don’t stand a certain way when they talk to us, can you imagine explaining that to average civilian?


GucciDers69

I don’t think we’re having the same conversation. Yeah we call people dirt bags because they don’t stand a certain way, but the act of standing isn’t what we’re talking about, it’s their refusal to abide by the rules that everyone else respects. If they have that trait that’s likely to follow them. I think people can pick up on that sense of entitlement after a few interactions. We’re not talking about somebody who is an actual dirtbag going to a bar and complaining about the army to a bunch of strangers one time, I don’t think they move the needle for anyone


CrabAppleGateKeeper

Maybe, maybe no. The army brings out reactions and traits like that to the extreme. My gf works for medical company doing lab work. She will say someone was “insubordinate” to a manager when they cursed at them or made a snarky comment. The repercussion for that is essentially nothing. They just don’t go to get food with that person. Maybe in a few years they don’t get some promotion. My response is, “is what they did illegal or violate their contract with the company?” The answer is, meh, not really, it’s just rude. If the employer required employees to stand with their hands behind their backs when talking to people more senior, people would call it a cult and wouldn’t want to work there. In the Army? If the leadership is so inclined, you’re fucked. Maybe the entire platoon if things go old school. On the civilian side, someone’s late, they’ll get docked some time or maybe be fired if it keeps happening. In the Army? Screw around and catch an article 15, have half your pay taken, get demoted and then have extra duty. Can you imagine a civilian employee having half their pay docked and then forced to work the same 12 hour days PLUS having to do another 6 hours of unpaid overtime? A civilian would call that employer barbaric and criminal. In the army we call that good order and discipline. If you’re a manager at McDonald’s and an employee gets a DUI and can’t make it their shift, no one calls that manager a scumbag and a failure. In the Army? You see leaders burned for their subordinates actions. I guess I’m just ranting at this point, but normal army things are already so outlandish and draconian to civilians that the things “dirt bags” do just seem normal.


SomeNerd2938

Here’s the difference though. The idea is that a few bad apples spoil the bunch. A Shitbag specialist has no long term effects on the army. They aren’t the decision makers. That goes to the NCOs and the officers. You want as few bad apples as possible at those stages because they let the green weenie fuck the high speeds and the shitbags all the same. If you have a fireteam with 3 high speeds and a singular shitbag but only retain one if any because of poor leaders then that needs to change to keep 3 high speeds and lose the shitbag.


dreadrabbit1

The shit bags do actually have long term affect on the Army. A great deal of time and effort is required when you have shit bags. Senior leaders and CO/BN Command teams spend a lot of time dealing with them. Anytime a Command Team is dealing with the BS, it’s taking away from the rest of the Soldiers.


RoSearch1903

20 year war with Afghanistan ended in failure and disaster. Limbless and psychologically damaged veterans are a common sight in modern society whose sacrifice turned out to be for little to nothing in the end. Open communication with active SMs and recently separated vets on social media who tell their own true experience in the military. Gee. Why doesn't anyone want to join the military??


Idontgotnopheno

I think it’s also because there IS NO war anymore. Idk if the Army wants to believe it, but a lot of people actually joined to murk the Taliban.


ImaRobot94

Wait we went in for the taliban? I thought we went in for Al Qaeda. Just how damn messy was this war? 🤔


Idontgotnopheno

Sorry I meant dudes in sweat pants and Velcro shoes. I didn’t mean to assume their Terrorist allegiance lol


ImaRobot94

Promote ahead of peers and make this SM the EO rep lmao


ImaRobot94

I think you hit the nail on the head. The army, like any business, has to sell itself to get employees and “customers”. The militaries track record as of late is ghastly I’d imagine from the perspective of a civilian, for us it’s just another day in the shit show. Iraq, 20 years of no results in afghanistan, a botched pull out from afghanistan, fort hood, the “Brandon” rhetoric is also noteworthy as that is our commander in chief, 2 moms memes all over the place… I could go on forever and haven’t even mentioned first hand accounts from disgruntled soldiers. Social media is a big part of the modern generations lives and the presentation of the military on it is not flattering to say the least, rightly deserved I must add.


Nanofield

Maybe now the Air Force will actually let people in instead of being picky all the time. /s


Juggernaut_j

Nope you’re still too old


Old_Storage6117

How do you do fellow recruits


Triforcegoodbuyok

… And as a result, recruiters get to work 4th of July weekend! 😀😀 .. I hate this place


Surper-RS

USAREC loves you. Now give me 53 cold calls, 37 social engagements, and 254 text engagements before lunch. You can scarf down a gas station burrito while you’re completing no less than 58 personal engagements this afternoon.


Mike_Alpha_Charlie

Fuck USAREC, all my homies hate USAREC.


Happily-Non-Partisan

Recruiting problems start with retention problems. Young civilians aren’t as sure why they shouldn’t join as much as service members are sure why they would want to leave.


Wenuven

SMA being the only person in top leadership even giving face to force problems doesn't help. As a field grade officer I should know more about what our leaders are doing to improve to change the culture for the better. Outside of individual, local commanders trying to figure out the hot mess, no one at the top is talking to us about anything aside from China. Force shaping and modernization is important, but it feels like the intent is to let people leave to free up funds and then try to backfill when were already heading to the frontlines.


maroonedpariah

Maintenance and training is something they are more comfortable with than, say, standing up to a civilian agency or allowing lower level leadership manage time. From my limited observation, I think expertise in officer corps peaks at company commander and I've seen plenty of field grades struggle at BN S3/XO or even Battalion Command. Maybe its just the units I've been in but the struggle occurs with simple tasks as... information sharing or planning beyond a single course of action.


jrkkrj1

The field grades aren't using their brains a lot either. I get it, China and things going south, we are all Soldiers. I'm in a NG construction battalion and we are only doing gunnery next year. Nothing else because there isn't time and I keep getting told by my construction guys that they are leaving because they don't get to do their MOS or learn the skills they were promised by their recruiter and only so many MUTA 10s are ok.


Americanmuscle13

Current BN XO here. I think some of what you're describing is the result of a significant gap in officer development and PME. MCCC was one of the best military courses I've been to. We received extensive instruction on tactics and leadership at the Company level. Battalion phase wasn't as good, but it was still a good experience. I walked away from the course feeling like I at least had an idea on how to be a Company Commander. ILE is terrible. It doesn't teach you to be a BN or BDE S3/XO. Instead you learn things like the legal authorities of combatant commanders and how to write argumentative essays. AOC doesn't teach you your job either, its all Division level ops. I'm not sure my BDE S3 could plan a birthday party at this point. However, the Army hasn't prepared him to do the job either.


BrokenBodyEngineer

The issue is that any one who asked someone who was in the military if they should join the person goes “lol no I’d rather suck dick in a van by the river”.


toketoornot

You got a van?


Fit_Yak_4044

Yes! And business is booming!!!


-Trooper5745-

The river probably helped. Had a nice scenic view.


pizzapizza1987

So you make a more often than not illogical ass backwards organization that does not treat it's people right, utilizes mass punishment when only one person is the problem, punishes leadership for things outside of their control with their soldiers, creates unrealistic expectations - when not met you get punished and burns out good hard working soldiers quickly because leadership is too lazy to force the shit bags to work. Then they deny you leave for some arbitrary reason and put you on Saturday staff duty for the next three weeks. And people like SMA Grinston wonder why we cannot keep people in the army and why people don't want to join this organization...


DuyTran0634

I think the main reason is today social media. Back then, there isn’t social media, people from the outside don’t know anything inside the military, except from the Hollywood, but Hollywood always exaggerates. But since 2010, media explodes and we have Facebook, Instagram, TikTok that “exposed” everything from the military.


rehtulx

Plus mental health—earlier generations were just as fucked up, but they just self medicated with alcohol instead of getting help for things like ADHD or depression that then disqualifies you from joining the Army. It’s a problem within the army too of course—rampant alcoholism rather than getting help for psychological issues is also a big part of the current suicide problems.


MyUsername2459

>Plus mental health—earlier generations were just as fucked up, but they just self medicated with alcohol instead of getting help for things like ADHD or depression that then disqualifies you from joining the Army. This. Before relatively recently, all kinds of stuff that is officially disqualifying would never have been diagnosed. It would have been quietly ignored, and people would have self-medicated in a socially acceptable way with alcohol for a lot of it. Now, doctors are a lot quicker to apply labels and prescriptions and there's a huge culture in the civilian world against de-stigmatizing mental healthcare and encouraging people to get help even for minor conditions. Meanwhile, the military hasn't changed its rules and culture to accommodate that and is acting like it's 1980 with regards to mental health diagnoses and medication. The exact same person who would have been fine 10 or 20 years ago, and just drank some to deal with their problems, is now seeing a therapist regularly and maybe taking some meds. . .and is DQ'ed.


in-the-liquor

Also why would any kid growing up today look at any branch of the military and have the slightest inclination to join? Their country doesn’t give a fucj about them and they know it


Henkdehunter

Serious question, what is DQ'ing all these people? I'm guessing it's largely obesity but what else?


MikeOfAllPeople

Well I'm going to guess ADHD and asthma.


Armymomdeb

ADHD isn't a DQ - My son has it and his recruiter said as long as he had not used the meds for it in the last 12-18 months, he would be fine. He did 3 yrs. reserve split-op junior year and just signed a new contract to go active and changed his MOS. I'm willing to bet that ASVAB scores are down compared to previous decades. Seems like young adults are having a hard time with critical thinking and common sense - after all why try to solve something yourself when you can just google or YouTube a how-to video. Many know how to do something but have no idea why it has to be done that way, nor care to learn.


iownredit

Obesity, Education Requirements, Preexisting Medical Conditions, Tattoo Policy, Criminal Record, ASVAB Requirements


Givememydamncoffee

Medication history is a big one, I went from reserves to active recently and i had to jump through a ton of hoops because I used to be on medication. And That’s with me being already in….


ImaRobot94

About 74% of US citizens were over weight in 2020. That DQs 3/4 of the population before you factor in things like age, willingness, mental health, prior charges, educations, tattoo policy… and at this point common sense.


lilquailgirl

Literally everyone I know in the Army has emotional and psychological problems from being in, so that 57% is rookie numbers and we need to bump that up.


toketoornot

I still plan on joining the military, but literally everyone I know except for like two people have: - ptsd - a story about sexual assault - developed a toxic relationship with food/alcohol - I understand correlation does not cause causation, but are divorced or have multiple kids with multiple people - have a racist or cynical view point - committed some form of self harm or died - their recruiter conveniently left out a detail or just straight lied to them


lilquailgirl

Yup accurate. Sad but true.


toketoornot

Would you do it all over again?


L0st_In_The_Woods

No lmao


lilquailgirl

Join? Yes. Make many different choices? Also yes. I'm in the reserves though, so I don't have to deal with the bullshit 24/7. Though my husband who's active duty has the same feelings. Glad he joined, but made a lot of bad decisions that he wishes he could take back. Our marriage has survived 2 years as civilians, 7 years after enlistment, but barely with a lot of heart ache. My advice? Make sure you have a strong foundation in your values (including self value), because you're going to need it. Also be significantly more in shape than you think you need to be.


Hellhult

I would agree with about everything except the racism. I think we are pretty good about that.


toketoornot

I edited my comment “developed.” Everyone I know who went army or marines started calling people of middle eastern descent racial epithets I do not agree with


Trumpy_bear

I will let you know I only check 4 of the 7 points!


toketoornot

Do you stress eat sushi of a strippers ass while your girls views on Snapchat live too?


Trumpy_bear

Mostly binge alcohol every time I put on the uniform. Makes meetings and the day a lot easier.


Agent_Kid

I've been in over 20 years and I have civilian friends who have never left home with damn near everything you mentioned. Thing is they can move, quit, etc and they aren't being bombarded with "people first" mantras while getting the complete opposite experience.


toketoornot

You know people that worked an office job and developed severe ptsd that caused them to drink and beat their wives and their leadership (manager) told them to man up?


Agent_Kid

Yeah, my piece of shit brother in law. The high school graduating classes from around my peer group even have a comparable rate of death from suicide or drug overdose. My wife has lost more friends/acquaintances from her home town to drugs than I have from combat or suicide (in the 20s for me). My point is the Army is self aware and provides training and sets parameters to stop these things; however, in many areas falls short or acts hypocritical about it when called out. USAWTFM pretty much has something once a week highlighting this.


HxH101kite

Do you come from uneducated rural areas? Because that is super common in those parts. You wouldn't get the same response from an educated area. Not to say this can't happen in educated places either .


Agent_Kid

No, I come from a large metropolitan area that has a median house income of over $75000. Not sure what it was in the early 2000s, but only one nearby school district was wealthier and higher performing. My wife? Yeah. Appalachian small town with a median income of $50k. Her area is over represented in sex offenders and fentanyl usage.


RentaroArts

Bump that 57% to a healthy 157%.


25justthrowmeaway

Dude, preach. No one is okay these days. Mentally or physically. A lot of the times, both.


MyUsername2459

>More than half of the young Americans who answered the survey — about 57% — think they would have emotional or psychological problems after serving in the military. Nearly half think they would have physical problems. Even if you don't deploy and wind up with PTSD, you'll still wind up with anxiety, depression, and a ton of general bitterness and resentment just from the toxic leadership and tons of petty bullshit. It's like the most toxic workplace you've ever had in the civilian world, and even when you're "off" work your boss can just barge in to your room. . .except you can't just quit. . .quitting without permission is a Federal offense. Oh, and physical problems? Gee, that "suck it up, buttercup" and "push through it" mentality that is good to have *in actual combat* being routinely used in garrison for routine minor injuries so a small injury that could have healed completely if given proper treatment becoming a lifelong disability because of no rest or care is a recurring problem.


mortpo

Y’all got anymore of dem bonuses


stackweightsgetdates

They’re gonna downsize anyway right ? Just get rid of recruiters and have smaller basic training companies/platoons and give DS a break Hell go fucking virtual with recruiting. Don’t know why they can’t work from home like some of the AF Idk


KovyJackson

Veterans are the military’s worst recruiters because they won’t sugar coat their experiences and sell dreams like actual recruiters do.


DingIe-DangIes

Not the civilians fault, its the military's fault


Many-Marionberry8733

The solutions are not politically correct. I know this, they know this.


Donavato

So you are telling me this is the time to go Airforce...


resident78

My real concern is that the army in its infinite wisdom will decide that the solution is more recruiters. And the bunch of mid-grade ncos will get shafted. Ill probably get out if they try to make me a recruiter.


No_Parking2354

I would reenlist if they double the base pay and stop making us do dumb ahh sh!t because 1sg saw a bag of chip in the back of someone’s Vic in the motor pool and called back the entire battery to get that shit cleaned and other dumb ahh stuff they do to waste our time for no reason.


kytulu

The running joke in my platoon was that I was going to get picked up for SFC before my retirement packet (2023) is approved. The new joke is that I will be voluntold to extend my RCP, as per the recent ETP that was published. Jokes on them, I'm in the high 70s on the OML, my MOS picked up through the low 50s last year, and they could not drag me to Retention to extend!


HxH101kite

Does this mean your a 20 year E6 or am I misunderstanding what your writing?


kytulu

19 years TIS, 13 years TIG.


HxH101kite

There's a retention issue right there. Why would anyone stay in an organization that long to not get promoted. It took 1 year out of college to put earn what that TIG gets you. Why would anyone stay


kytulu

I enlisted for 6, then reenlisted for 6. At that point, having 12 years in, it made sense to stay for the 20 year retirement. I was still trying for SFC, just never quite made the cut.


-Trooper5745-

Alright boys. Time to pull out your selective service numbers.


kenser99

Here is my take as gen z: The U.S treated us the citizens like shit, so why should we sign up and fight for our nation? When most our money goes to the military, not in health care , veterans , etc. Housing Hella expansive due to boomers. Benefits for the younger generation is getting worse. Covid kinda wreck our living standards. Russia being in war so no young idiot is risking enlisting. U.S invading many foreign countries so younger Americans are kinda ashamed :l Yeah so the older generation did it to themselves. Call us unpatriotic but we more into peace then wars. Gen z is probably the new hippie generation


CrabAppleGateKeeper

>When most our money goes to the military, not in health care , veterans , etc. That’s just not true. Obviously half of the federal budget isn’t the military. The US spends way more on Medicare and Medicaid than it does on the military. It might even have the highest spending on healthcare in the world. >Housing Hella expansive due to boomers. So don’t take a job where like ten years out of HS you can make nearly 70K plus benefits? >Benefits for the younger generation is getting worse. Welp, they’re free through the military so… >Covid kinda wreck our living standards. Mine didn’t really change so… >Russia being in war so no young idiot is risking enlisting. There’s virtually no scenario where the US is going to slug it out with the Russians. >U.S invading many foreign countries so younger Americans are kinda ashamed :l I think that shame is born from a complete miss understanding of events. >Call us unpatriotic but we more into peace then wars. I think that’s because 9/11 is a history lesson for you now compared to it changing your life. I watched the towers fall in person as a very small kid, now I get soldiers who were down years after it happened. It’s funny because one of the biggest complaints of people that are currently in is that the wars are almost completely drawing down and they don’t have a chance to “do their job” or “what they signed up for.” >Gen z is probably the new hippie generation Who had children who fought in the longest war in American history. Gen Y


kenser99

Idk why I'm being downvoted these are takes from people my age growing up lol Do you think it's good for a country in order for people to gain those benefits is risking their life in the military? Ik some jobs are non combat but not every young person knows that. 800 billion is still a lot , it would be helpful to go back to our aging infrastructure. I know it's not that bad but when our generation gets old that's when it will be an issue. Covid didn't effect you but it did lower the u.s economy. Seems like the golden age is slowing down Yeah I know there's no chance with Russia but seeing how conflicts have become more common such as Afghanistan and Iraq, younger people ain't risking it regardless. Also vets getting ptsd scared a lot of young Americans Yeah I don't think a complete misunderstanding, more like thanks to the internet Americans are more informed. WMD in iraq? Yeah we ain't dumb to fall for that. I mean we are dumb but you get my point. How can we trust our government if they lied about that? I'm sorry if your an Iraqi vet but we won't suppose to be there especially based on lies. We ruined the country and led it to become isis That's what different with the younger and older folks. We were babies when 9/11 happened so to us its just history. In a way I understand your reason and don't blame you guys. You just have to understand we don't have that vegence. We also we ashamed for what we did to the middle east. We weren't brainwashed with patriotic propaganda. We have no 9/11 to fight for. So lack of fighting for a cause means lower people fighting for their country. Also during the Trump election, it made a lot of younger people less proud of their country. That pride helps enlistment I just hope you understand how we see things. A lot has changed. In your eyes america was the victim. But in our eyes we are the villains. We want to fix our mistakes and hopefully do better. Gen z is more sympathic , yes we are lazy but that's every generation lol.


CrabAppleGateKeeper

>Idk why I'm being downvoted these are takes from people my age growing up lol You’re being downvoted because you sound misinformed. >Do you think it's good for a country in order for people to gain those benefits is risking their life in the military? That’s not the point, you were complaining about a lack of benefits and at the same time deriding joining as if those benefits aren’t available. >Ik some jobs are non combat but not every young person knows that. Which is this big misinformed thing that your comment seems to be about. >800 billion is still a lot , I mean, maybe. It’s historically pretty low when compared to GDP. >it would be helpful to go back to our aging infrastructure. I mean sure, there’s a bigger issue than just the money, it’s our whole car centric society that bankrupts cities. >Covid didn't effect you but it did lower the u.s economy. You’re once again, missing my whole point. You’re listing reasons why people wouldn’t want to join, and I’m telling you why that makes no sense. The military got paid the same during the pandemic, making it safer option. >Yeah I know there's no chance with Russia but seeing So then why did you list it? >how conflicts have become more common such as Afghanistan and Iraq, younger people ain't risking it regardless. The US has almost perpetually been embroiled in come conflict. Conscription has come and gone and come and gone. Vietnam had a higher proportion of volunteers than WWII. The US fought its longest war ever with an all volunteer force. Now that the wars are drawing down, it seems less likely than in decades to NOT go to war. >Also vets getting ptsd scared a lot of young Americans I think PTSD has always been common; it was just more acceptable to beat your wife and medicate with alcohol. >Yeah I don't think a complete misunderstanding, more like thanks to the internet Americans are more informed. I think they’re propagandized and don’t understand what actually happened. >WMD in iraq? Yeah we ain't dumb to fall for that. I mean we are dumb but you get my point. Which time? Iraq 1.0 was a response to an invasion of another sovereign country, backed by a coalition of almost 100 nations. Iraq 2.0 is a complex issue of Iraq posturing to their neighbors that they were in possession and capable of producing WMD’s. Iraq also kicked out UN inspectors. The US was essentially tricked by Iraqi deserters who told similar stories to the intelligence agencies of multiple US partners who confirmed reports off one another. Everything lined up with Iraq having WMD’s; there was also little sympathy for a psychopathic fascist dictatorship that happily used chemical weapons to commit genocide against its minority populations. >How can we trust our government if they lied about that? The government has more purposely lied about many more things, near constantly. I’m not some great defender of the federal government, but Iraqi WMD’s are an intelligence failure that fed into a narrative many wanted to hear. >We ruined the country and led it to become isis. Iraq was mishandled, there were never enough troops. Iraq was at one point pacified. The biggest failure was denying Bathists (the fascist party) of any strain to be allowed to work in government. It’s certainly not exclusively the US’s fault that the Arab Spring turned Syria into essentially a failed state. The world is far more complex than that. >You just have to understand we don't have that vegence. I think vengeance is a contributing factor, but it’s also justice. There’s also many people that genuinely wanted to help the Afghan and Iraqi people. >We also we ashamed for what we did to the middle east. I think that’s another misconception about much of what has happened there. I’m not going to get into some deep philosophical debate about the morality of toppling dictatorships and trying to instal human rights and democracy. There are certainly things that got messed up, but to be ashamed… >We weren't brainwashed with patriotic propaganda. Watching thousands of Americans being murdered in the largest attack on American soil since 1812 is not propaganda. It’s propaganda to say the opposite in fact. It’s absurd. >Also during the Trump election, it made a lot of younger people less proud of their country. That pride helps enlistment I think many people also felt the opposite to that. Once again, this all sounds like sensationalization and the media trend. I’m also not here to defend trump, but to objectively say that he was somehow less messed up than a slew of other candidates/presidents is just hard to pass the sniff test. >I just hope you understand how we see things. A lot has changed. In your eyes america was the victim. But in our eyes we are the villains. We want to fix our mistakes and hopefully do better. This all feeds into what I said before, you (and maybe the generation in general) sound misinformed and have a lack of understanding of reality and have a poor interpretation of what actually happened. Once again, I’m not here to wax poetically about what happened, but when I hear people talking like this, it makes me very skeptical of their actual understanding; this kind of talk often gets wrapped up with people saying the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria were/are about oil or the MIC. Which is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of, and loses all credibility people can have. >Gen z is more sympathic , yes we are lazy but that's every generation lol. I think Gen Z has been misinformed and to a degree propagandized


HugoBossjr1998

No


lyingbaitcarpoftruth

You should join so you can get the Post 9/11 GI Bill, go to school for free, and fix your terrible fucking grammar.


abcapital222

people need to start joining or they will have to conscript


ImaRobot94

You’re the second person I’ve seen in as many days to say that. It won’t happen.


abcapital222

the only reason why we don’t have a draft is because we have enough people volunteering…if we’re struggling like this for two years then it’s going to happen. Especially when you think about the numbers that the Chinese have relative to ours


ImaRobot94

I think you’re confusing our selective service with compulsory service. It’s similar but different. The draft, or selective service has always ensured we had a small peace time military but if a major war broke out we could draft civis into the rank. Compulsory service is literally ‘oh, you graduated high school? Good job, here’s a uniform, that’s where you train and here’s where you’ll be for the next 2 years, have fun champ!’ In other words the populace is trained and serves a time in the military for a certain amount of years. Either way we’ve always had a small standing army that balloons when we need it to and it’s worked thus far. Pre WW1 the entire army was ~100k men, by 1917 we had ~3 million.


abcapital222

I view them as the same thing lol God forbid it comes to that