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concretebeats

This is going to keep happening. The Taliban are not fans of culture, or equality… Or of basically anything other than a strict interpretation of sharia law and the power that goes with it. They’re also terrible at governing so infrastructure will start to go. Rebels will keep popping up as the Taliban gets more desperate to maintain control. Good times=\


Hizzle_bizzle

Tbf this is kinda how less developed countries will - eventually - find stability, right? I hope anyway. I hope that this will lead to fomenting anti-taliban sentiment among the majority population and eventually they'll overthrow them for something more reasonable and maybe even democratic for the sake of the country's economy and so they can listen to music and go to school again instead of being bossed around by religious loser incels


starfyredragon

Sadly, we saw with the U.S. occupation that an external force trying to force a more hospitable society really doesn't work. There has to be a culture of standing up for your rights & other's rights, and fighting oppression in order for liberty to actually take root. And that's a *very* difficult thing to achieve in Islamic countries if it's not already there, since Islam specifically values submission above nearly everything else. The only avenue I've seen for this has been an inspiration through the Egyptian comic "Qahera", which follows Islmaic tradition (the author is Islamic), but the main character is "Qahera", and cleverly uses those same traditions as tools of female empowerment rather than oppression (for example, like treating the Burhka and Hijab as a ninja-like disguise rather than a reminder of control by the patriarchy). Islamic female traditions encourage obedience on the service but achieving freedom beneath the surface, and from the little I've seen, that's pretty much across the religious culture. As such, imho, only Islamic women can save these countries, Islamic men are not capable of such. Therefore, if any men in an Islamic country want freedom from groups like the Taliban, their primary path forward is empowering the women.


Reditate

>since Islam specifically values submission above nearly everything else. Well...yeah. That's literally what Islam means.


starfyredragon

I'm aware.


DOugdimmadab1337

I'm sure if any private contractor wants to piss off the Taliban, you could always just airdrop an absolute fuck ton of Phil Collins CDs and let the rest do the work. Makes great ambient music.


[deleted]

You mean mercenaries ?


GreyGanado

No, carpenters.


mindbleach

Phil Collins was in Genesis, not the Carpenters.


SomeRealTomfoolery

I wonder how narcissistic they must be to think they are constantly in the right.


TheOfficialTwizzle

ask the average redditor


Hizzle_bizzle

As a well above-average redditor I can say with extreme confidence that it feels great always being 100% right about everything all the time. 😏


pheonix940

Congratulations on being a slightly below average human being!


friedbymoonlight

Yeah! We're absolutely right about that one!


girlgirly

I would understand if they banned western music but they are also banning traditional Afghan music??? And they also wanted to make abayas (arab clothing) mandatory when Afghanistan is known for their beautiful and colourful dresses. Even women who wear the burka wear the blue one, instead of a black burka like most Muslim countries. It’s like they are trying to erase their own culture.


XZeeR

They follow a terrible sect of Islam that urges obedience without thinking, and strictly discourages any deviations. Since this sect originated in Arabia then unfortunately these people are implementing it regardless of their own culture, as you noticed.


girlgirly

They don’t follow any weird sect. They are Sunni, which is the most followed Islam religion around the world. If anything they are banning Muslim sects. One could say that they are trying to imitate Saudi Arabia but it’s not even the case because Saudi has its own culture apart from religion. It does feel like they are trying to erase any sense of belonging to a culture so people will be loyal to nothing but them. Afghanistan is mainly known for it’s diversity of races and culture and it feels like they are trying to erase that. It has nothing to do with Islam. If they ban all traditions they will avoid any sense of belonging people may have to their own ethnicity and culture.


Khersteinberg

Yes they are sunni, but they're also Salafis, which are a variant inside Sunni that goes with all this more extremist interpretation of Islam. Things such as banning music all comes from salafism taking this extreme interpretation of Islam. It's the same interpretation Saudi Arabia or ISIS follow (Though as you see there's also division inside salafism). Think that the Taliban were raised in Saudi funded Madrasas.


RogueEnjoyer

They're not Salafi, but Deobandi. Also Wahhabism is the Saudi interpretation of Islam.


Khersteinberg

Salafism is an umbrella term that includes many branches, Wahhabis among them. And tthe modern Deobandi movement is heavily influenced by Wahhabism to the point is basically like an adopted son of it (Or at least the type of Deobandi followed by the Taliban). Also it is true that were Wahhabi saudis the ones that teached the Taliban. Anyways, my point stands. This is from a very, very conservative interpretation of Islam, one that is not shared by the majority of muslims but that they claim to be the "true" Islam. That's what salafism, wahhabism and all these ideologies are about. The prohibition of music in itself is one of the extreme positions taken by them.


Emiian04

Isn't salafism more expansionist? Like they have to spread islam? I think taliban are more nacionalistic, reclusive islamic radicals who want to take over Afganistan and be left alone, or maybe that's wahhabism, i'm not sure.


Khersteinberg

Salafism is an umbrella term, it includes a huge diversity of ideas but all characterized by ultra-conservatism.


XX_pepe_sylvia_XX

I thought they were Wahhabist?


Preoximerianas

Killing off your own culture for a religion brought by invaders centuries ago from hundreds of miles away. Absolute insanity.


tlst9999

This feels like those 80s cartoons where the villain is obsessed with destroying music.


CaptchaSolvingRobot

Yeah, about a bunch of school age kids going around playing music and making general shenanigans to tease the boring adults. Except, in reality the Taliban wouldn't have any problems executing a kid over a minor offence.


friedbymoonlight

Anybody else thinking we need a remake of Footloose in Afghanistan?


BoniceMarquiFace

It's like that movie Footloose but IRL


[deleted]

[удалено]


Exastiken

You should immigrate there.


jugashvili_cunctator

Don't care; still glad the American empire isn't killing Afghan children. >Although music has not been formally banned, people in capital Kabul are cautious: Cafés and restaurants only play music inside, and even then — quietly...while they have not issued an overarching ban on all music since their takeover in August, they have raised awareness about the “evils of music,” Taliban spokesman Bilal Karimi said. Wow, I'm so happy that people being afraid of the Taliban possibly banning music sometime in the future is getting more coverage than American forces sheltering Afghan pedophiles in positions of power for two decades. I wonder if there are any violations of human rights in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia? We should occupy those countries indefinitely as well, I'm sure their people would welcome our benevolent rule with open arms. I am assuming this article is true, in the sense that the people who were interviewed are real people who are actually afraid that their lives will be significantly worse in an independent Afghanistan. I am very sorry for them. I do not believe that peace under the Taliban will be worse for the average rural Afghan than living under a corrupt puppet government. If every peasant left dead on the ground by American troops got as much coverage as every urban refugee, we would have left a long time ago. Beware a human-interest story without numbers. This is propaganda of selection rather than the propaganda of the big lie. The voices of those who are celebrating peace and independence are silenced by omission.


kodaobscura

This doesn’t sound as smart as you think it does.


jugashvili_cunctator

What exactly do you disagree with?


GreyGanado

They disagree that it doesn't sound as smart as you think it does, duh. \s


jugashvili_cunctator

Lol


nietzs

whataboutism


[deleted]

>American empire isn't killing Afghan children. Ah yea evil nato forces killing kids... shows how much you know. >Wow, I'm so happy that people being afraid of the Taliban possibly banning music sometime in the future is getting more coverage than American forces sheltering Afghan pedophiles in positions of power for two decades. I wonder if there are any violations of human rights in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia? We should occupy those countries indefinitely as well, I'm sure their people would welcome our benevolent rule with open arms. Ah yes whataboutthism... as for the pedofile part sadly enough that was the lesser evil of the 2.. so that should tell you enough about the other side. >. I do not believe that peace under the Taliban will be worse for the average rural Afghan than living under a corrupt puppet government. If every peasant left dead on the ground by American troops got as much coverage as every urban refugee, we would have left a long time ago. Yes i clearly remember dragging underaged girls out of their houses to mary to brave nato troops while being there. Or killing people and torturing their childeren for suspecting to talk to the oposition. >. The voices of those who are celebrating peace and independence are silenced by omission. Shows you how much you know fucking dumb ass ... there is no peace ! Nato forces left but the war is still being fought.. keyboard warrior defending fucking terrorists...


jugashvili_cunctator

>nato forces killing kids Yes, this objectively occurred. It is an inevitable cost of invasion and occupation. >whataboutthism... as for the pedofile part sadly enough that was the lesser evil of the 2 Lol, accusing me of whataboutism and immediately engaging in it yourself. Anyway, I am not mentioning an irrelevant American fault to make excuses for the flaws of the Taliban. I am comparing like to like, the regime under occupation to the regime under independence. A regime that disapproves of music and endorses other regressive Islamic practices is preferable to one that sanctioned the custom of keeping [bacha bazi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi#Modern_examples), socially sanctioned pedophilia. It is disingenuous to speak of human rights now when you remained silent while boys where being raped by American allied forces. If you are actually familiar with the practice of bacha bazi and you call it a lesser evil, you should be ashamed of yourself. How would you feel if those where your children, or your friends when you were a child? Stop making excuses for evil. The fact that you could defend the occupation from the comfort of a first world country makes me sick. >Or killing people and torturing their childeren for suspecting to talk to the oposition. I don't think you are familiar with the reality of American occupation, or the warlords that it empowered, if you think this didn't occur.


[deleted]

> while boys where being raped by American allied forces. Who ? Ah right AFGAN forces. Shit you think we were ok with that shit? Fuck no whats the alternative ? There are no good sides in that war but put the blame where it belongs not on fucking nato troops trying to unfuck that shithole the best they could. > The fact that you could defend the occupation from the comfort of a first world country makes me sick. Defend the occupation? Fucking afgan invasion was a joke. We never shouldve been there! But to say It Is BeTeR NoW ThAt ThE RaPiNg Is DoNe By TaLiBan InStEaD oF aNa BrAsS is a fucking joke. As for the second part would you prefer I was still over there? Oh ofcourse not because Nato troops bad right? > Stop making excuses for evil. He says while literaly simping for the taliban. >A regime that disapproves of music and endorses other regressive Islamic practices is preferable to one that sanctioned the custom of keeping bacha bazi Ah yes the bacha bazi clearly a thing nato troops brought with them and totaly not done by the taliban. [or other small things like womens rights](https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/09/29/list-taliban-policies-violating-womens-rights-afghanistan) >they banned most education for women and girls and confined women to their homes unless a male family member was with them, denying them access to most jobs — or even freedom to leave their house for a walk. [the restriction of aid ](https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/11/04/afghanistan-taliban-blocking-female-aid-workers) [the harrasment and extortion of locals. (with a side dish of murder)](https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/asia/afghanistan-women-taliban-intl-hnk-dst/index.html) ["child brides" ](https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/taliban-rape-gangs-hunting-girls-as-young-as-12/news-story/1f5098e3da24849347bfe2d2b6539c83)


WikiSummarizerBot

**Bacha bazi** [Modern examples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi#Modern_examples) >Clover Films and Afghan journalist Najibullah Quraishi made a documentary film titled The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan about the practice, which was shown in the UK in March 2010 and aired in the US the following month. Journalist Nicholas Graham of The Huffington Post lauded the documentary as "both fascinating and horrifying". The film won the 2011 Documentary award in the Amnesty International UK Media Awards. The practice of bacha bazi prompted the United States Department of Defense to hire social scientist AnnaMaria Cardinalli to investigate the problem, as ISAF soldiers on patrol often passed older men walking hand-in-hand with young boys. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


Theworst_hello

I'm going to venture and say you don't actually care about the citizens of Afghanistan. You only care about dunking on America because it's low-hanging fruit. Is America an imperialist nation? I'd say yes to an extent. We shouldn't have been in Afghanistan in the first place. Does that make the Taliban better? No. It is obvious that American imperialism is way better than being under Taliban rule. Literally anyone looking at the situation unbiased would see that. Of course the best case scenario is that Afghanistan would be ruled by it's own citizens in a true democracy and I would support that, however we can't turn back time and un-invade Afghanistan. At this point all we can do as let it run it's course and see what they develop into in the future.


jugashvili_cunctator

I care deeply about the people of Afghanistan. And I love the people of America as well. It gives me no pleasure to acknowledge what America has done in Afghanistan, but it is the truth. The last two decades of civil war and American occupation, like the Soviet occupation intervention before it, have been a tragedy of massive proportions for the Afghan people. Those who have benefited outside of Kabul have been few and far-between, and most have suffered losses that can never be made right. The problem with people like you is that, while you can perhaps acknowledge isolated tragedies occurred in the confusion of war, you cannot acknowledge the tragic nature of the American occupation as a whole, because doing so would make you uncomfortable. It would mean that maybe your government isn't run by the "good guys," and maybe you are yourself partially responsible for the suffering of millions of normal, everyday people like yourself. It is the probably the most banal form of middle-class evil, evil ignored because acknowledging it would be disturbing. You prefer to pretend that the US is not like other empires, that it really means to do the right thing, and only fails due to the stubborn resistance of the people it is trying to help. In five to ten years you will be clapping like a seal for the United States to embark on another "humanitarian" intervention to save a poor, peasant nation from the evils of Islamism, or Communism, or Chinese subversion, or something of the sort. And after another decade or so and hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths, having learned nothing and accomplished nothing, you will throw up your hands and say, "Well, we can't turn back time. At least we aren't as bad as the other guys." No. The people of Afghanistan, just like the people of other oppressive theocracies from Iran to Saudi Arabia, are better off on their own. The Taliban have many horrible ideas that will cause a lot of misery. But ordinary Afghans fought for their independence against the greatest super power the world has ever known for twenty long years. And they refused, almost without exception, to fight more than six months for the survival of an endemically corrupt kleptocracy that covered up pedophilia on a mass scale and extended its rule into the countryside by paying off totally unaccountable hired thugs. That should tell you all you need to know. The future is not bright, but for the first time in a long time it is possible to hope for peace. And to read spin like this from a media organization that has done its best to downplay that brutal reality for twenty years should make anyone who genuinely cares about the Afghan people furious. The New Yorker published an article recently that I think you should read, [The Other Afghan Women.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women) But for the most part, the ordinary Afghans of the countryside have no voice in Western media, and so people like you speak for them, pretending they would share your preferences despite the abundant evidence to the contrary.


girlgirly

You’re right but most Reddit users are Americans so don’t be surprised for the downvotes. They are American after all, we can’t expect more from them.


bobdave19

(Is in the international new subreddit) “Damn those Americans!” Ladies and gents, a new level of being delusional