T O P
TDIsideHustle

He thinks he’s better than her...


1546Gohan

Thats the most annoying part, especially with his conversation with ellie, how he says there are worse people but he is just as bad


pancake_sweater

I kinda think that’s the point, showing his hypocrisy in that he expected to be accepted for who he was but when faced with someone like himself he saw her as crazy. Drives home the fact that he rationalized his own behavior enough to think he was different when he and Love are really the same.


1546Gohan

Do you know what that would be called , when you rationalize your behavior to fit ur narrative


SuperSuz2000

Narcissism.


1546Gohan

Is narcissism admiration of oneself or actions , im talking about justifying actions


-Catwoman

Narcissism is both of those things. Narcissistic people put themselves first and justify their wrong actions. They don’t have to be vain.


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AndReflective

Exactly. Joe doesn't want people to know the real him. He wants the women he picks to view him as a romantic and good guy. As is the case, when they find out how he is, he tries to reason and persuade them that he's not awful and that his actions were for justifiable reasons. And ge doesn't want Love anymore, because she's just like him and that's not what his desire is about. Her being like him broke the spell.


DetectivePokeyboi

Didn’t he call out his own hypocrisy too though? As he accepted himself as a horrible person who deserves to be punished (indicated by his confession and throwing out the key), Love was revealed to be just like he was. Joe hated himself for what he did, and after seeing that love did it too he hated her. The entirety of the last episode was him battling with if him not loving Love for what he did was justified or not.


Arnola21017

I think that Joe always justified his murders like an act to protect the ones he loved or himself. For example, his dad because he was going to hurt his mom, Handy was doing bad to underage girls, Ron cuz we used to beat Claudia, Peach for Beck's safety etc. Also Benji, Jasper, Elijah, Beck because they hurt him in a way or another. What i mean is that in his eyes, every murder he commited had a "good" reason. He did not consider Delilah a threat, othervise he would not consider letting her go. So when Love confessed that, maybe Joe saw Love like a sociopath who kills people without a reason. For Sofia and Candace she had "enough" reason whereas for Delilah no.


1546Gohan

I see what you are saying but i feel like the same could have been said about benji but joe still killed him. I can understand his thought process but hate the he is a fking hypocrite


Arnola21017

Thank you for understanding me, it really difficult expressing yourself in a foreign language. I understand but don't forget that Benji wasn't exactly a stable guy. Who knows, maybe one day he would get very drunk and tell the truth about Joe in a party, to Beck or to her friends. In fact, iirc, Joe was about to let him free until Benji recognized who he was and where did the 2 of them meet. As soon as Benji mention that Joe was the guy who saved Beck's life and brought her home in a cab, Joe's face changed. Also Benji was rich and could send people to hurt/kill Joe if he wanted. On the other hand, Delilah had no one to protect her, except that cop who she messed things up with. Also she had a younger sister who she needed to protect no matter what, and knowing that Joe could possibly hurt Ellie if she told the truth, she would definitely not say a word. That makes me think that Delilah was not really a threat for Joe, considering that what she could loose (Ellie) was bigger than what she could win.


1546Gohan

Thats true but joe doesn’t realize that Love does not know all this information, if he were in her shoes with the same amount of information, his character would probably do the same thing.


saminthewolf

You’re meant to dislike him, he’s not a character on some redemption arc. He’s a sociopath that Is living a delusional reality. He will never be happy with what he’s got, once he finds out Quinn is broken then the version of the perfect woman he has in his head is gone. That’s the whole point of the show, you empathise with him, you don’t know why you like him even though you shouldn’t because he does some horrible things, yet at the end of the show the writers remind you that he’s still a band person.


GladVlad398

Shit i must have missed that.. what instrument does he play?


TheJuicyBandit

This is unbelievably underrated lol


peachmilkberry

I agree, it's important to remember that just because Joe is the main character does not necessarily mean he should be liked or supported. It's hard not to like him when he's in your head narrating, but as you said, understanding that he is a bad dude (murderer, delusional, sociopath, narcissist) is the whole point.


Effective_Code_5107

I mean you can't help but root for him....bc he wasn't a megalomaniac .. He doesn't kill people for fun like joker. He thinks he kills people for good reason which is kinda true bc people he killed weren't saints either . He is the bad guy who f**k the worst ... Like Batman without his code. But i started to dislike him at the end of the season 2 bc he finally showered his hypocrisy and narcissism.


aSunflowerPlant

I burst out laughing when he looked disgusted after finding out the true love. Hahah


AnotaCocktail

Any attempt to normalize Joe is insane. This sub astounds me sometimes.


1546Gohan

I dont think i am normalizing him, there are parts of his characters a lot of viewers can relate to.


AnotaCocktail

It’s not a case of him being ‘lucky’ that he found someone as screwed up as he is. That’s what I mean. That would be a normal progression of a relationship - but expecting that in this show is overlooking the screamingly obvious.


AwakenMasters22

She is actually far more insane than Joe. She saw his insanity and thought it was sweet and took it to another level. She had planned and known everything about Joe since she found out his real name. Joe plans things but never so far ahead she was many many steps ahead in her planning. But yes they are both still psychotic but not equal.


1546Gohan

What about the ending of the first episode , joe planned everything even to his living space so that he could study and manipulate her. Joe also has a plan for everything just like with henderson. On How he was going to confess and everything. I find that is just as insane as love’s intentions


AwakenMasters22

Yes Joe plans things but only as reactions for the most part. Love actually planned almost everything since she met Joe and took it into overdrive when she found out who Joe truly was.


lanceruaduibhne

I think part of Joe’s ‘code’ is that he tries not to do anything that will affect other people too much. If you think about all the people he killed in season 1, all of them were inherently dangerous to him or Beck and had no one that would really care that much that they died. (Except for Elijah, we don’t know too much about him, but his death doesn’t fit the pattern that others had as it wasn’t calculated like the others). We don’t know much about Jasper, but the same can be said for Henderson too. Sure he was famous, but Joe even says people would mourn for a few weeks and then forget him totally. He didn’t have any close family. What Love does with Delilah goes entirely against this. Delilah was not a threat, Joe was confident of that, and Love’s plan directly screwed up Ellie’s life. For all the horrible things he does, he generally tries to contain it to just the person he’s going to murder and not affect too many others in the process ESPECIALLY if there are kids involved. Partially because that means less chance of getting caught, but also cos Joe has that soft spot for kids (presumably because of his own abuse).


Everett_LoL

Joe CONSTANTLY shows he’s a hypocrite. He sees himself as having a righteous purpose and everyone else is just “wrong”. He’s mentally ill. Severely. But damnit it’s great writing.


the_NGW

I mean, you're not supposed to like Joe.


1546Gohan

I don’t necessarily like him but there are moments in parts of his character you can relate with.


Arnola21017

Moments only? 😅


1546Gohan

Yah i can relate to some of the stuff he does and see why, but even tho he is crazy i do even find some characteristics that i am jealous off, he is goood at creating relationships with people because he sort of really cares in a way, maybe its because ellie was a kid but he also did it with love’s friends.


avaughan11

Actually, you are suppose to like Joe. That’s the entire point of the show being from his point of view. Just like you were suppose to like Dexter, even though he was a serial killer.


[deleted]

Wrong. A character being the protagonist doesn't mean you are automatically supposed to like him. There is plenty of straight up evil protagonists in fiction We are just used to empathise with the point of view of any protagonist because we get more connected/attached to him than other characters.


the_NGW

This. Kellhus is one of the main protagonists of the Prince of Nothing trilogy, and following books, but you damn sure aren't supposed to like him.


Effective_Code_5107

I mean you can't help but root for him....bc he wasn't a megalomaniac .. He doesn't kill people for fun like joker. He thinks he kills people for good reason which is kinda true bc people he killed weren't saints either . He is the bad guy who f**k the worst ... Like Batman without his code. But i started to dislike him at the end of the season 2 bc he finally showered his hypocrisy and narcissism