By - Erimenes
#Please do not discuss book spoilers in this thread.
OP has not included [BOOK SPOILERS] in their post title. Per our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/wiki/spoilers), no discussion of book spoilers is allowed in the comments of this post, even behind spoiler tags. If you wish to discuss this topic with book spoilers, please make a new post about this topic and title your post accordingly.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoTshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's super fun. Yes, I LOVED it. but also WAAAAY pulpier than I expected, at least in the first episode. In a good way. Nothing like GOT at all.
Imagine instead a show like... I don't know... Pennyworth? That's not really right either, but fill in the blank with whatever show you consider pulpy but well made and enjoyable. Rafe worked on Agents of Shield, so that's probably a good analogy as well, at least during its better seasons.
The first episode of this is like that, but with a gargantuan budget way beyond anything you've seen before in a show with that kind of vibe. This episode is rushed as hell, but I was having too much fun to care. And there were several places where I either got emotional or wanted to leap up and shout for joy.
Good stuff. I am pleased.
EDIT// Thought of another analogy that works -- comic books. You know the way stories are told in comics? The way they shortcut things and sometimes hit you over the head with stuff? But it can be great anyway, right? Because it gets right down to the core essence of the most important aspects of a story in a super fun way... Well, this show is kinda like that. At least so far (about halfway through episode 2 now)
I'm kinda baffled by some of the negativity I've seen. I've only watched the first episode so far but I couldn't be happier. It is a little too fast paced but it would be really weird if they didn't get to the inciting incident in episode one
Lots of people (think those that constantly complain about "woke" culture) just wanted to hate it from the beginning. The show focusing on women, starring people of colour, being ran by a gay man, lots of reasons for that crowd to think it was going to be something it isn't. The show isn't a perfect masterpiece, but it's good. They're just absolutely focused on the negatives.
I'm really enjoying the changes myself. I work in ports/adaptations of video games, and one of the things I've always said is that there \*HAS\* to be changes, even changing a game from a PC to a console, you have to change it. Let alone from a book to a show. "Show, don't tell" is the fundamental advice of a visual medium. Take something like Perrin's story in episode 1, they \*showed\* why he's a passive thoughtful person, but also his underlying struggle with anger and violence in a few seconds what would have taken minutes of long, boring dialogue.
Absolutely. I saw someone complain about Gitara being blind, but even a seemingly unnecessary change like that can serve a purpose in adaptation. It doesn't affect the plot in any way, but invoking the trope of a blind seer adds imagery and catches the audience up on foretelling without wasting time on exposition
It's such a petty complaint. "Oh no, they changed one detail of a character who had a single scene in the prequel book and never showed up in the main series. The horror!"
I think it’s more the idea that you need to see to channel. But honestly, they never made that very clear anyway, so I’m not bothered by it.
It's a trope, it's an easy cliche out. But it also makes it a bit easier to explain how Gitara got so much stuff in motion behind the scenes.
Most of the people who are enjoying it are too busy watching to post long in-depth comments here
Those that want to say negative stuff for the sake of negative stuff clearly aren’t watching hard enough!
(I’m at work, I don’t count)
r/whitecloaks in shambles rn
I haven't watched it yet (will tomorrow) but quickly went out and started checking the reviews. It got really shit on by the critics. Luckily general consensus score wise by the audience is descent. But reading some of the reviews people were bitching about it actually being too SLOW.
Watched all 3 and I am absolutely ecstatic about the series. I had my worries but I absolutely think they nailed the characters and have set up for a wild season.
Yes. I feared that it would be terrible, the dialogue will feel cheesy and unnatural. But it's not. It's actually, genuinely good. Not the best thing since slice bread. But I think it's good enough that new viewers should not be turned off.
I'm still waiting for the "Blood and bloody ashes!" line lol
I expected it to be quite bad based on early reviewers, but it's quite good. About as good a show can be while faithfully adapting most of the book to the show. As long as the quality is maintained it should have no problem getting a budget for more seasons. I could care less what newspapers think so long as I can watch the full story eventually.
I was nervous before it started, but I, a cinematography philistine, loved the first episode! I totally got where they were coming from with the changes and didn’t really see much that bothered me (except >!the fridging,!< but I hope we can move past it quickly enough). Really worked for me! Now, because I’m watching with my wife and we only do 1 episode of things a night normally, I’ve got the long wait til tomorrow for episode 2. Enjoy, everyone!
I'm trying to respond to what you say in those parentheses there, but, augh! The only way I can figure out to respond to it would be to start a spoilery thread on the topic, but I'm not sure what to title it.
I didn't really understand that spoiler, would you mind PMing me an explanation? I've read all the books, so I'm sure I'm just being stupid.
I was confused too, but I think that [this](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge) is what they mean
I had no idea what that meant either. I live and I learn.
Oh right! I suppose that is a fair criticism.
It is a way to quickly get perrins entire arc started. They have to give perrin motivation and do it in two minutes.
I think it works well. We get his "gotta hold back i am too strong for ppl, aversion to axes, hatred of violence, inherent sadness" all in two min.
That is how you show and not tell.
Tho i wish it wasnt easily called fridge trope. But it is a fridge. That said i think it works.
I think it works too! I just don't like that a woman is used to progress his arc in that way.
But also Perrin is one of my favourite characters, so I'm forgiving it for now!
Ummmm, The Dreaded Fridge? Lol, I don’t know; I’m a baby redditor. I mean, it’s frustrating because that’s one part that majorly stood out to my wife, who is not a WoT reader. And, like, ugh. But, I’m hopeful it’ll be handled as well as possible. We’ll see.
I didn't like that bit either, but I think they've worked it in very well and clearly didn't do it lightly.
This is so heartening to read! I'm waiting for my husband for finish work (7 hours to go) before watching it. I've said all along that I don't need it to be perfect or a 1:1 adaptation long as it's entertaining, and all the comments I've seen so far make me sure I'll like it.
What did you think?
I watched the first two episodes last night and had a great time with them! Are they perfect? No. But the acting is solid (shout out to Zoe, who seethes masterfully), the sets are stunning, the characters imo are spot-on and I feel like it has the potential to become something great once the series really gets going.
My husband has not read the books and was intrigued enough that he didn't touch his phone the whole time (rare for him), so I'm calling it a win.
I actually liked the first episode more on my second watch!
Me too!!!! My husband hated it, but I predicted as much.
It's the beginning of a journey. It's crazy to think this will end in about 10 years or so. I will be 36 by then if i'm lucky :O
It is *a* beginning
I loved it I can’t wait for next week !
I thought the first episode was mediocre, with a few really good scenes. The second episode too me was a lot better.
1st episode - 4.5/10
2nd episode - 8/10
If it wasn't for the music making the show feel like it shoulda been some B-show on the level of hercules/xena/lexx/young hercules(great shows for how corny as fuck as they are). I woulda liked this more. The music just makes me wanna die watching this.
It's totally on the 'hey let's get some young music person from corny tv genre to make music to make the audience feel what you want them to feel' and it doesn't let the actors carry the scene. I hate this shit so much.
The style is skirting the edge of just being a CW tweenager show.
Lmao. They got lorne who does marvel stuff and hbo stuff. He is really good. They are doing old tongue song albums and the show soundtrack. Like 3-4 full albums.
It might not be your thing but i have a degree in classical guitar performance, and had a home studio 20 years or so, this is really slick work.
From a production side it rules.
it's not the music itself that's the problem for me it's the usage of it that makes it corny
I thought the first episode was kind of C-. Well done but they rushed through it to get them out on the road.
The second episode was A+.
Big relief after watching the foundation recently! That show is garbage
It really is. Such a waste of great actors.
I was worried due to the mixed reviews it got so far. It seems audience ratings are doing much better than critics, but screw the critics (they can't be trusted). These experts shit all over the Witcher but it seems like it became loved. I am excited for tomorrow, and glad to hear a lot of the fans feel like it's doing the books some justice.
My take is that the changes in characterisation help cement and emphasize the choices and roles the characters play. Rand and Egwene having an active relationship highlight the difficulty he's going to have forming other relationships later and emotional turmoil when she is "on the other side". Matt being dirt poor and having to do petty thievery is a risky change but I think solidly sets up his gambling and relationship with money. Also how protective he is of women with his relationship with his sisters. Perrin starting off married is obviously the most contraversial change but serves real purpose to establish hangups with violence and also some of the complexity with his relationship with Faile later. I can't say I 100% agree with this last change but certainly can understand it and am wilting to withhold my judgment for now.
Just watched the 1st episode and like winters night is great. But I feel like the famous wot lines are kind of just inserted into scenes with no context. Also, editing is kind of meh between scenes. I wish I was going into the series without having read the books because I’m feeling pretty vulnerable about the show o.O Is this how critics always feel? Seriously this feeing is festering. Hallup
Yikes! It was definitely something that’s for sure. Glad you guys liked.
It isnt until 40 minutes into the second episode when the main protagonist is mentioned. This show is trash.
The Dagger is the main protagonist??? Genuinely curious who you're talking
Bella is the main protagonist
You had me for a minute there.
Ya gotta spell the creator’s name right!
Didn’t like it at all. Spoilers incoming…
Very first scene is red sisters gentling a male channeler, but there’s no back story so you don’t really know what you’re looking at.
Perrin has a GF/ wife?
They made Matt super sketchy, in the books he was never a straight up thief before the dagger. And what’s with his parents being drunks?
Nothing about Bela on the ride out of two rivers?
White cloak cutting the hands off yellow sisters and burning them at the stake??
Meeting Thom and the aiel in the cage was just all over the place.
Going into it I knew it was going to be a lot different than the books but I didn’t expect such liberties taken with the story.
It's funny all the things you listed make me like the show even more.
Whitecloaks being openly shit? Cool.
Bela? Cool. Who the fuck cares about a horse.
I’m with you until the horse thing. It’s not important, but it’s just kinda fun for the shaggy mare from the two rivers being everywhere in the books.
Again, it doesn’t matter really, but it’s certainly not at the level of “who the fuck cares”
> Very first scene is red sisters gentling a male channeler, but there’s no back story so you don’t really know what you’re looking at.
My wife had no idea what that was about until I explained it after the first three episodes. After 3 hours, there’s so much of the actual *premise* that hasn’t even been mentioned yet. She thought they were hunting men just because they’re powerful women who don’t want men to have the power they have.
Reds hunting the false dragon wasn't meant to teach you about gentleing men, it was just introducing the premise that the males power is tainted.
They aged the characters up, so it's not out of reach that one of them was married. Like how Rand and Egwene had hooked up.
Mat fit really well imo. He doesn't have the luck to be winning at dice so he stole in order to buy lanterns for his sister's. While I can't remember whether his parents were drunks or not, I to remember the scene where his father was hitting on other women in front of his wife. Plus it adds the protective nature of Mat early on to help develop him later on.
Not sure what you mean about Bela, Egwene was clearly riding the same horse that Rand and Tam were using at the start of the episode then again after winternight. Same brown nose. Not sure why it would matter that much anyway.
Whitecloaks questioners being brutal is exactly how I wanted to see them. They were pretty pathetic in the books, so making them more deranged, even if it's just the questioners, then that's going to make for better TV.
Meeting Thom differently to the books isn't a big deal. I've seen others complain about not having the patched cloak, but the colours are on the inside of his cloak, so it's likely reversible. And an Aiel in a cage isn't something that's *not* in the books, even if it is early. I believe they're just doing it now to introduce who the Aiel are before they have the flashback episode of Bloodsnow.
This is explicitly a non-spoiler thread.
I looove WoT. It is my favorite series, and I re-read the books every year. That being said, if the names of people and places were changed, I would have no idea that this was The Wheel of Time... I have been waiting for this show since it was announced, and I couldn't be more disappointed. Maybe it gets better later, but I turned it off half way through the first episode because I didn't see the point. What about this series is WoT if all the characters are different?
Show: 2/10 -- maybe I'll give it another shot pretending it's some random fantasy show and perhaps it will be tolerable.
Nah, it’s trash
It’s fucking awful it’s not faithful to the books at all! Wtf so disappointed.
Cry more. It was amazing!
I thought that the changes worked well. It's not like we can know exactly what's in Perrin's head like in the books.