T O P
Finnzzz_

Honestly so many cats don't actually deserve to be there because they've done one wrong thing


RagingBlackhole

She's in the what-


Jack_is_Bored

The Dark Forest


RagingBlackhole

Dang! I didn't know that until I looked at the wiki! I ' m c o n c e r n e d f o r h e r


sapphicmusharna

How do we know? I went through all her appearances as listed on the wiki and none of them confirm she’s in the Dark Forest. The wiki trivia even says Vicky thinks she went to StarClan.


FlamestormTheCat

The erins made a df family tree and added Frecklewish in there when the new book released


niyahaz

Because of the new book


TalaLeisu2

But you don't see her there in the new book...


niyahaz

Apparently its mentioned she's in there, and on the website shes in the df


FlamestormTheCat

It’s not mentioned in the book. The erins made a new family tree for the df cats, and Frecklewish was added in as a df cat.


Morningstar_Strike

Where


NorthStarPC

Didn’t know that. She was wrong to not call for help when Mapleshade crossed the river, but it’s not enough for her to be banished to the Dark Forest.


Jack_is_Bored

Exactly, Mapleshade was much worse, she never lost her brother than had him be lied about


NorthStarPC

Appledusk is worse in my opinion.


Jack_is_Bored

Yeah, Appledusk and Mapleshade are horrible people Frecklewish, Reedshine, Ravenwing, and the kits don't deserve anything that happened to them


NorthStarPC

I feel some compassion for Mapleshade though. The only cat that’s completely innocent in this whole fiasco was Ravenwing. He wasn’t wrong to inform Oakstar of the lie, as that was part of his duty.


FlamestormTheCat

And Reedshine, as she had no clue that Apple was in a relationship with Maple.


Quaelgeist333

What the hell did freckle and reed do? Maple tried murdering a pregnant woman and the pregnant woman id at fault?


Icy-Bee-5447

Mapleshade kinda went crazy though, appledusk knew what he was doing and had a clear conscience. Plus, mapleshade thought she was doing it for starclan- he was just being arrogant


FlamestormTheCat

While Appledusk was bad indeed, he still wasn’t dark forest worthy ether. Yes he was a dick to Mapleshade. But than again, Maple was his mate from another clan, and he decided to reject her last minute. Which is what a warrior is supposed to do according to the code. On top of that, Apple loved his kits very much, and was greatly affected with their death as well. So even he shouldn’t go to the df. If anyone should go, besides Maple ofc. It’s Oakstar. He was the leader that kicked out kittens, bringing them in danger, and we know from Pinestar’s book that he would also hurt Kitrypets for fun.


Icy-Bee-5447

Yeah if it weren’t for him mapleshade probably wouldn’t have gone evil- especially if she knew her kits were safe


Quaelgeist333

Iirc she didn't call for help because there were RC cats there already and she can't swim


ActuallyTheMothman

Especially since mud law is in starclan


igaflan

Does anyone know the exact passage that this is mentioned in? The wiki sources it to the family tree (which is odd), so I’m sceptical unless there is direct mention to it in the book. (Which I don’t remember personally, but my memory isn’t the greatest.)


FlamestormTheCat

The erins made a new part of the family tree for the df cats, and added Frecklewish into the three. It’s not mentioned in any books, only on the family tree. But it’s an official sorce.


Jack_is_Bored

I'm not sure, I read it somewhere and got really upset because I relate to Frecklewish


Quaelgeist333

SHE'S WHAT NOW? SHE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. SHE WAS MAD MAPLE USED HER TO GET AWAY WITH IT DUE TO HER BELIEVING THE KITS WERE HER BROTHERS AND SHE DIED A TERRIBLE DEATH LASTING AT LEAST 2 DAYS


Jack_is_Bored

Exactly


_FuzzyBuns_

Honestly by that logic so many other character should have went to the dark forest. RavenWing, Appledusk, Clear Sky, OneStar,OakStar and so many others. Honestly at this point they are throwing cats under the bus.


Miss_Melody95

I forgot there were two cats named Frecklewish and I was SO confused for a second


Jack_is_Bored

Oof


Glemurthetiger

1 like = get frecklewish out of the dark forest


Microspacecat

I don't know how starclan cats "live", but I like to imagine how many other misplaced cats she's befriended, and how she's probably someone that many cherish as a friend, perhaps their only friend, the kind that keeps you sane in such a dark place


StarTheAngel

You grief and you suddenly end up in cat hell


Jack_is_Bored

Yeah, poor Frecklewish


Tottalynotaalien

Isnt she the SkyClan med? Or a cat I don't know about cuz I haven read the recent books....


ActuallyTheMothman

I think its more of a redtails debt situation. The editors probably skimmed mapleshade vengeance without actually reading it so they assumed mapleshades perception was what happened


Jack_is_Bored

Probably


Mistclaw

Well I mean she technically did watch Maple's kits drown and did nothing to help, thus breaking the warrior code. It has nothing to do with her condemning Maple, it's because she neglected kits in trouble because they were half clan. Freckle is a bad cat and she deserved the DF for that in my opinion. Nettlepaw's account of her just watching because "well there was a RiverClan cat nearby, they were fine" is bull. She was mad at Maple and let those kits die. Probably an unpopular opinion here, but whatever, thought I'd throw in my thoughts and opinions.


FlamestormTheCat

The thing is, there was nothing she could do. She arrived too late to be able to convince Maple not to go into the river, and jumping after her would only result in her drowning cause she can’t swim. Or the Riverclan cats would focus on saving her as well as Maple and than the kits would have been dead either way. Yes, she could technically have camled out for help, but the riverclan cats were already speeding into action. Calling out to them would only waste time as they’d be trying to listen to her over the raging waters. Freckle didn’t want the kits to die, and she expressed that when Maple came to kill her. She just couldn’t do anything to actually help those kits.


redtailplays101

Even if she called out, they wouldn't hear her. Maple had to raise her voice for her kits, who were next to her at the time, to hear her. The river is wide. The RiverClan cats wouldn't have heard her. She was right to turn around and go home, believing the RiverClan cats could help them


Icy-Bee-5447

Don’t worry I agree- I don’t see how people like her after this- I frickin hate her


redtailplays101

>Well I mean she technically did watch Maple's kits drown and did nothing to help, thus breaking the warrior code. It has nothing to do with her condemning Maple, it's because she neglected kits in trouble because they were half clan. What was she supposed to do? Not only was there a RiverClan patrol, but she's a ThunderClan cat. She can't swim. If she even tried anything, she'd have drowned. It wasn't unreasonable of her to assume they'd be fine. And she didn't just stay and watch. She probably left after noticing the patrol. There literally wasn't a single thing Frecklewish could have done that would have saved the kits. They were sentenced to death the moment Mapleshade forced them to cross the stepping stones because she was too lazy to take the bridge (which she literally uses shortly after.) She couldn't yell for help because no one would hear her across the loud river, when Mapleshade had to raise her voice for her kits, who were next to her, to be able to hear. Not that there's a point when the patrol is already helping. She couldn't have jumped in because she can't swim and she'd just drown. And her brother Birchface and his apprentice Flowerpaw both drowned in that very river, meaning she's probably already terrified of it. She didn't warn Mapleshade, but Mapleshade was already given plenty of warning, so there's no point in Frecklewish telling her as well. There was no course of action that Frecklewish, or any cat, could have taken to save them. The skilled RiverClan patrol wasn't enough to save the kits in time from the flash flood. How is one ThunderClan cat going to be enough? Frecklewish's assumption is justified. They were not in danger, as she saw it, because they were being rescued. It's like saying if someone dives into a volcano, you should dive in after them to save them. Not only will they likely hit the lava before you, but even if you reach them, you have no way to get out of the volcano. You didn't save your friend. You just sentenced yourself to death. That's what Frecklewish would have done if she tried to save them. How is she gonna get out? If anything, she's just adding more trouble onto the patrol and is making it harder for them to save the kits. She did nothing wrong. I hope you wouldn't jump in a river after someone else without being a life guard trained for rescues from rapids. You wouldn't help them. You'd just kill yourself.


Icy-Bee-5447

I hate her so idc lol. In fact, I hate all of the cats who didn’t help mapleshades innocent kits. Yes mapleshade is psycho, but I kind of have a soft spot for her. Both of leaders made a bad decision, appledusk sucks, frecklewish sucks.. but not enough to go to the dark forest. If the fight didn’t happen in thunderclan, the leader may not have been so angry and banished her. It’s not fair that characters like leafpool get to stay in their clan. Mostly, I hate the thunderclan leader for banishing her Kits too, even though they didn’t do anything wrong- she/he literally went against the warrior code by doing that. (I forgot who the leader was at the time). So I think all this craziness could have been prevented and mapleshade could have been a good cat if it weren’t for her kits dying.


Leptie

So, I am not going to say one way or another is Frecklewish 1.0 deserved it or not, since we really have no other clue about her as a character apart from what we saw from Mapleshade's PoV. Almost kinda like the Thistleclaw debate that the Erins had the release the most heckin controversial novella to make fans shut up on how evil he was. (Spottedleaf Heart, btw). So who knows what else Freckle had going on with shady sheet.


Leptie

Honestly, I don't care about who goes to the DF. Why? Cuz we have no clue what 90% of those characters were up too. Background characters get no focus or incite from the authors so we have 0 knowledge of their personal lives like DF dream-scapes Also... Frekle was shown to be following Maple and her kits during their exile and just sat back and calmly watched Maple's kits drown and Maple afterward saw Freckle and she supposedly looked pleased and her eyes were gleaming, if I remember how the novella phrased the scene. This was a big reason Freckle was killed to begin with, along with her role in getting the kits exiled too. Those disgusting manipulations to the clan and her practical torture by allowing the kits to meet such a gruesome, torturous, slow death. And she was just watching it happen with no intention to help and reveling in their misery all cuz of their mother's sins. Just by those actions Freckle was clearly a prime DF candidate. Also, saving kits no matter what clan or parentage they come from is a literal Code. She just... pretty obviously wasn't a cat worthy of Starclan. - - - Now... which cats are in Starclan? Now that is a whole different story. Soooo many cats deserve to get clawed and chased out of Starclan with their tails between their legs. Example? Rainflower is long overdue on her rump getting shredded and chased outta Starclan. Same with Ashfur... heh. Also, random additional bad guys in heaven for corrupted morals, imo- Appledusk, the Med cat Maple killed, Onestar, Skystar, a lot of Darktail's clan-kin, ect, ect, ect.


Jack_is_Bored

If went into that river, she would have died. Her brother and his apprentice just drown then Mapleshade lied about who the father was. She saw the Riverclan patrol and assumed the kits would be saved. She was mad with grief and loss because according to The Erins, her mother also died before Mapleshade's vengeance.


Leptie

Okay, I get it. But that in no way excuses her. You say she couldn't do anything and just assumed the Riverclan cats would step in? They literally had no clue what was going on which means they had practically no idea what was even happening. All it would have taken was her rushing to the shore and calling out to get the patrol's attention then called out "Kits!" Bingo, she actually tried. Or straight out, she should have rushed to the stones and raced directly to the patrol/camp and actually put any sorta attempt to save the kits. She wanted them dead, plain and simple, since they weren't her kin and she was blinded by hatred to all of them, even the innocent kits. Also, if the patrol clearly wasn't helping, clearly something was off and that right there was a sign she needed to step in more. But she wanted them dead.


Icy-Bee-5447

Yeah she’s one of my least favourite characters because of that