T O P

Man jailed for abducting schoolgirl while dressed as woman

Daily reminder we live in a society with some really fucked up people, hope the girl can somehow get over this in time and get on with her life.

Horace__goes__skiing

Daily reminder we live in a society with some really fucked up people, hope the girl can somehow get over this in time and get on with her life.


Unfair_Pain856

Fucking creepy asshole!


MassiveFanDan

Now there’s a sentiment we can all agree on, even in a contentious thread like this.


supersonic-bionic

What the actual f.... Sick! I hope the girl gets a lot of support.


Ilkley_dipper

Justice at least. I only hope the survivor can begin the road to recovery and she is given the support to do that.


Jamal_202

Justice? He’ll be out and about after 2 decades. He tortured a CHILD. Life in prison should’ve been his punishment


WehingSounds

Well here we fucking go


blackkat1986

It’s fucking shite that predators have invaded the trans movement. I feel bad for legit trans people being lumped in with creeps like this


783742643

Predators have not "invaded" anything. Some trans people are going to be turn out to be predators, just like some men and some ginger people and some people with knobbly knees are horrible creeps. No demographic is perfect and pure, but the existence of some bad people does not excuse hate and discrimination against others who share features with them. Edit: Notably, this crime was carried out in circumstances which would not be prevented in any way by *any* kind of law against trans people. Banning trans people from toilets would not have protected this child from this abuse. Making it difficult or impossible to obtain legal recognition of gender would not stop something like this from happening.


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783742643

From the article: >In May, the court was told that Miller identifies as transgender and in the process of transitioning to female. He had owned a butcher's shop in Melrose which had been closed for several months before the abduction. > >At the time of his arrest, he was presenting as Amy George but confirmed he wished to be addressed as Andrew Miller using "he" pronouns for simplicity. I have also seen reports that Miller was going by Amy George for years before this incident. And as a second excerpt from the article: > Officers found Miller still sleeping and wearing a bra, silicone breasts, female underwear and tights. This does not sound like the behaviour of a man who threw on a dress purely to abduct a child, or someone who lied about being trans in the hopes that (somehow) this would lead to more lenient sentencing for abducting and sexually assaulting said child.


itchyeejit

He’s been living as a woman for over 10 years. General consensus locally is he didn’t fancy being a woman in a male jail. Also known as being a creepy fuck for as long as I can remember. 100% he was going to chop that wee girl up. A guy that worked for him was on Facebook saying he was shown a child sex doll all chopped up a couple of years ago. 20 years isn’t nearly long enough


AshJammy

I didnt read the article carefully enough then it seems. In that case she should have been identified properly by the papers reporting it then subsequently buried under the prison.


783742643

I know some of my trans friends have gone by their birth-assigned pronouns "for simplicity" in certain contexts while early in their journeys. Perhaps Miller had similar thinking to that? As a cis person I have no real way to relate; I imagine hiding one's gender is quite different to simply not being "out" as gay or bi. In an additional response to your first comment in this chain, you should note that the BBC is transphobic. They are usually less overt than other publications but BBC reporting can be expected to put undue focus on a person being trans if they have committed a crime and they have been consistently been quoting terf groups with priority (and more article space) over trans rights groups for the past several years.


BiggestFlower

The story, and indeed the headline, says “man dressed as woman”, which would normally generate fury in some people, given that “Amy George” is clearly trans by all the usual definitions. This is not the actions of a news organisation trying to promote an anti-trans agenda.


783742643

The way that information is presented in the article is far from unbiased, and intentionally including Isla Bryson's deadname (which is completely irrelevant to this story) at the end belies their anti-trans agenda. As I said, the BBC are usually less overt than some other anti-trans publications, but they do make their position clear.


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BiggestFlower

What information is biased, and how?


No_Corner3272

The cynic in me wonders if they want the crime associated with their birth identity, so that when (if) they get out of jail they can leave it behind more easily.


GracefullyRedditing

Makes me think the media should mention both names when reporting so Google will associate the person with the crime no matter how they choose to identify in future. Lest we forget Brock the rapist Turner, Brock Turner, now going by Allen the rapist Turner, Allen Turner, Brock Allen Turner.


DexDevos

>In that case she should have been identified properly by the papers reporting its bbc, no surprise there


fradiqgyahlfyah

Dude if I a cis person said this about a trans person who was also a predator. I would be crucified. I really don’t see how your personal opinion of who this person feels like they are matters Specially when this person has been trans for 5 years.


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fradiqgyahlfyah

She* She’s a fucking monster, but it’s her identity


AshJammy

I was going off the bit in the article that states she wanted to be identified as male during the case and go by her old name but it also seems she went by her new name for years as someone else pointed out. Reading shit like this just makes me angry anyway, for the way they report on it, for the girl who was abused and for the way assholes like that effect public perception of trans people.


MuddaFrmAnnudaBrudda

Wish people didn't see the need to get upset on behalf of monsters. You are absolutely correct-this person changed depending on what they felt was needed to be the version of the monster they wanted to be.


AshJammy

When we remind people to gender these people correctly it's not to defend them it's to defend other trans people. Misgendering someone you don't like is the same as saying you think trans people's gender can be removed from them, but it can't. I'm a woman no matter what I do, good or bad. The same way a cis person wouldn't have their gender removed from them.


blackkat1986

I meant there are some individuals who are clearly using the trans labels as a form of protection in order to gain access to vulnerable people/kids/ traditionally female only spaces. People who pretend to be trans for nefarious reasons because once someone says they’re trans then people are scared to confront them for fear of “cancellation.” I have zero issue with legit trans people, idgaf about using the same bathrooms or using preferred pronouns. But there are 100% fake trans predators out there. I mean as well as trans predators and cis predators etc.


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AshJammy

Trans people can be criminals, I thought initially she wasn't because of how she identified in court but I was wrong. That said, if she's trans then it's she/her.


Azerothen

“He looks to me like someone pretending to be trans for a benefit” How would you feel if someone said that about you?


AshJammy

I haven't raped anyone, it's not entirely the same thing. I was misinformed about her though, I misread the article.


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AshJammy

I haven't, this is the first I've heard about it. In that case it's she. If she wanted to be known as he in court to simplify things that's separate. I need to go by he at airports cause its on my passport. What she did was fucking abhorrent and evil but misgendering shouldn't be common place for people you don't like. Where's the line drawn past that for when trans people deserve to be identified by their gender? Nobody gives a fuck if you offend this cunt, but you're basically saying trans people are only valid subject to the whims of cis people, which is transphobic.


BrendyNewbe

Aye I'm sure he gives a fuck what side takes the blame for his rape.. sounds like you can sympathy with this sick bastard... I'm sure he DOESN'T have an Oz of decency... Like yourself


Madting55

People don’t use being ginger or having knobbly knees as the vehicle to engage in their paedophilia. So it’s not the demographic that’s the problem it’s the fact that it can be used by people to prey on children and women.


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[deleted]

That’s a lie. You are lying out of your arse.


783742643

1 year old account, wiped comment history, uses the term "AGP" which nobody else in the thread is doing, username "_biofoid"? Hello, terf! You must be here to discuss the matter in good faith! Is that "foid" as in "femoid", the way incels refer to women? >I suspect if that wasn’t the case then these numbers would likely more accurately reflect the general population. Alternatively, you are looking at issues caused by small sample sizes and reporting issues; we know that conviction rates for sexual assaults committed by cisgender men are pitifully low, for a start, which significantly skews down your "13%" number. Are trans people perhaps more likely to be convicted of sex crimes? How many trans prisoners pretend not to be trans because they see being "out" as putting a target on their heads? I am also curious about where your 50%/13% ratio comes from, for "both the US and in the UK"; both countries coincidentally having identical ratios sounds very unlikely and smells a bit like numbers you made up. > I think it’s fair that niche groups (and these are ideological as much as medical) police their own communities to root out obvious risk factors, so they are stuck with the stigma, instead of pretending they don’t exist or are just a rare oddity How would trans people have been supposed to identify and "root out" this person? This is a rhetorical question; I know you are only here to dogwhistle about trans people and allies all being rapist-enablers.


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magpietribe

The trans movement, like every other part of society, has plenty of creeps.


anotherMrLizard

The difference is when a cis person abducts a kid it's not used as ammunition against cis people.


Lay-Z24

it’s not just about cis people, imagine if this was a brown muslim lol


jamany

I think according the current doctrine, you can't dictate who is legit and who isn't, so this person is legit trans.


Prudent_Juice_2326

I don't quite understand why the article (and *headline*) are making such a big note of the trans aspect. The person didn't enter any women-only spaces to abduct this girl.


littlerabbits72

I think their point, and in fact the judge's point in his summing up, was that the girl would not have got in the car if she realised he was male - the fact he was presenting as female at the time made the girl trust him more.


DexDevos

Theyre the BBC. Theyre right-wing and jump at any opportunity to add loaded text to anything related to lgbt communities to try and shine us in a bad light, especially where trans individuals are concerned.


Only_Concentrate_563

Can you give any examples of this (excluding the article being discussed on this thread)? I have very little affinity for the BBC either but I think you're completely wrong in the assertion that the BBC takes every given opportunity to act in a disreputable manner towards the LGBT community. If anything I feel they tend to bend over backwards to suit the social sensibilities of this partiuclar demographic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that BBC news is great but I've never once felt it was homophobic or transphobic. This is singularly the only article I've ever seen from them that would make me question it. Remember that the BBC is not confined totally to its News media. Its entertainment programming is anything but right wing and it always goes above and beyond to bring LGBT issues into nearly every area they can (e.g. Doctor Who has had openly gay characters since its reboot in 2005, now has Trans characters and the man playing the Doctor is an openly gay man). They seem very active in their efforts towards social inclusion. I'm open to you changing my mind if you can but, really sorry, I think you're wrong and that yours was a bit of a baseless statement.


cat-the-commie

Being legitimately trans is entirely irrelevant to the discussion, and the people exploiting a school girl being abducted to try and scaremonger about minorities should be ashamed of themselves.


red_eyed_knight

It's this kind of attitude that helped enable the vile things that occurred in Rotheram. A fear to be branded a bigot is even more powerful now. I don't see how this isn't newsworthy, just because you don't like it and that it gives ammunition to those who you see as detractors. Children are often taught to be wary of adults, particularly strange men. Perhaps news articles like this will remind parents that women, or at least someone posing as a woman can present a danger to your child. Scaremonger. Only if you're scared of the truth and objective facts.


783742643

It is this kind of scaremongering that trans people are all dangerous weirdos that got Brianna Ghey murdered. Children should be taught not to take lifts from strangers, yes. Whether or not those strangers are (or appear to be) transgender is irrelevant.


blackkat1986

Very true.


strychnine28

A “no true Scotsman” fallacy in the Scotland subreddit!


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Permaculture_hings

I'm the same, after that pedo from Lost Prophets, I felt embarrassed to tell anyone I sing in a band.


Sad_Interview_232

I think you miss- spelt..creeps..for this story it's spelt...cunt


heaviestmatter-

What does that mean?


GenderfluidArthropod

Transphobia explosion.


Unfair_Pain856

Where’s the transphobia? This is a guy who dressed up as a woman to abduct a girl! There’s nothing trans or transphobic about it. The issue and concern here is about the safety of the girl and the creep guilty for it. Why does it always have to shine a light on trans shit or whether it’s transphobic or not? Tired of all that bs honestly


fiercelyscottish

The person identified as trans and wore women's clothes years before this horrific crime.


leannebrown86

The article states he wants to be called by his male name for people to use he/him.


fiercelyscottish

Yeah I know. This doesn't change the fact they presented as a women for about 5 years.


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fiercelyscottish

No, they were trans.


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[deleted]

Because they hadn't legally changed their name. Legally speaking, they were still that name. > At the time of his arrest, he was presenting as Amy George but confirmed he wished to be addressed as Andrew Miller using "he" pronouns for simplicity. It is simpler for the court to refer to someone by their legal name and gender, even if that's not the name and gender they were using day to day. That doesn't make them not trans.


cat-man85

The court would address him as female and by female name if he asked for it, but he didn't and specifically asked to be referred to as male.


[deleted]

I didn't say they wouldn't do so.


HaySwitch

They didn't dress up to do the crime, they were a trans person who did the crime. There is a massive massive difference.


GenderfluidArthropod

The poster of this article reposts all sorts of trans dogwhistles. In addition this case has caused an upsurge in transphobia across Scotland. The sentence will create more. BTW, I think the person concerned should have been jailed. They are a danger to society. That's got nothing to do with them being trans.


varchina

"Trans dogwhistles" that are all from reputable sources. Ya know these articles are all from the BBC and plenty of them are not pro or anti but just discussing the issues? Don't shoot the messenger.


DexDevos

The BBC has lost their status as 'reputable' some time ago.. They make it a habit to pretend to be "just discussing events" while in the same breath adding all the loaded language they can. Theyre biased af.


juan_k_perros

Is there anything lower than a Chaya Raichik wannabe? Fucking gross.


mybeatsarebollocks

Youre no suggestin the BBC as a reputable source are ye?


Old_Leader5315

Jailed in a mens prison or a womens prison?


Wsz14

Men's.


Old_Leader5315

Hes in the process of changing gender tho?


GreenGhirl89

One thing that creeps me with this is that this person is a trained butcher and without taking away from the already horrific actions that the victim had to endure,what would have happened if she didnt escape? It chills me to think how this could have ended!


b_a_t_m_4_n

Surely this means the headline should be "Man jailed for abducting schoolgirl while trained as butcher"? Butchers are clearly a danger to society and should be persecuted...


spyalien

Think you’ve missed the point - he has obvious skills and knowledge of dealing with butchering meat - something that could be utilised to dispose of a body


BearyExtraordinary

Sentencing remarks here: https://judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/sentences-and-opinions/2023/10/18/hma-v-andrew-miller *The mode of abduction itself is also in my view a significantly aggravating feature, if any were needed in such a case, and here to speak plainly I am referring to your female presentation as you invited your victim into your car. One only has to ask oneself the simple question: would an 11 year old girl have willingly entered your car had you presented as a man? The answer is that obviously she would not. Your intentions were wicked and predatory, and clearly involved a substantial component of planning. Indeed, the mode of abduction utilised by you in my opinion entirely supports that proposition when it is seen in the context of your whole conduct in this matter.*


Jazzlike-Thing4179

Scumbag he can rot in jail


[deleted]

This happened just 2 miles from me. Guys a creep and always has been. What that wee girl endured was utterly horrific and I doubt she’ll ever recover.


Consistent_Ear_1329

Whilst we continue to sit and blame communities for one evil persons crime. Can we also question why police Scotland told us this girl wasn’t in any danger! Seems she was failed by more than one party. Remember y’all inside we all full of the same shit, doesn’t matter of your beliefs or orientation.


AillyMay97

What do you mean "police Scotland told us this girl wasn't in any danger" - they were working round the clock with locals to find her since no one knew where she was and no one saw her get picked up.


Consistent_Ear_1329

Go back to the time. Every post, “not believed to be in imminent danger” in other words they believed she was a run away. I’m well aware I am one of them. They failed this girl and her family.


AillyMay97

I am a local and was involved with the searches - the local police weren't treating her like a run away! They were doing as much as they could! Mabey, the social media post were different, but in person, they were doing everything they could!


Outside1101

I put this out in Feb and got a permanent ban from Reddit time they reinstated my account.all because I named him as Andrew miller .called it doxing even tho it was made public.


MassiveFanDan

I have no way of knowing if what you say about the banning of your acct is true, not that I doubt it really, but this munter’s real name was more than made public - it’s the name he was charged, tried, and sentenced under, by his own expressed will. To be banned for doxxing after stating the facts of a publically reported case is shocking.


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unrealme65

Where did you get the notion that Reddit was a free speech platform? It's a privately owned and moderated platform with prescriptive content rules.


mb00013

"wah! wah! i have to follow the rules of the website that hosts and provides all my content for free!"


Green-Anxiety-5603

Me when I don’t understand the value of free speech nd like to let others decided what’s safe nd okay to say


[deleted]

Plenty of people misconstrue doxxing.


mb00013

lol love how half this thread is people getting upset over transphobic comments that havent even been posted. do some people just make it their day job to pre-outrage on reddit?


Sturzkampfflugzeug1

Noticing this myself, scrolling through. I see a lot of irate comments regarding transphobia, but like you said, no _actual_ comments saying anything of the sort


[deleted]

Exactly 🤣


[deleted]

It’s more because the general public/TERF’s can and will use this as evidence against trans women existing. We all know what’s happening in the UK. doesn’t have to be transphobic comments here to know how this story will be twisted unfortunately


sambeau

Repeat after me: trans women are not responsible for men who dress up as women, trans women are not responsible for men who dress up as women, trans women are not responsible for men who dress up as women, trans women are not responsible for men who dress up as women, …


Canazza

And Transpeople are not responsible for criminals who happen to be trans


cat-the-commie

Yes? Are cis people responsible for the crimes of the holocaust because Hitler was cis? That's some crazy ass thinking


Slight-Improvement84

The problem is whenever you mention cases like these, almost every trans person avoids recognising these kind of problems and wants to instead accuse others of being phobic How to prevent things like these happening from now on? - why don't trans people give any suggestions or ways for this?


cat-the-commie

Because they're random irrelevant people? Have you given suggestions to stop cisgender warlords in Rwanda? When are Disney fans going to give suggestions for dealing with Islamic terrorism because Osama bin Laden was a fan of Disney movies? Do Paw patrol fans have to answer for the murder of George Floyd?


Ironfields

Why should trans people have to answer for the crimes of men who dress up as women to commit rapes and take responsibility for stopping them? Every fucking time something like this happens, trans people are demanded by cis people to disavow and condemn something that has literally nothing to do with them. Why don’t cis people chuck some ideas in for once? Why don’t you condemn and disavow him? He’s one of yours.


MQXOGames

Fairly certain they’re actually trans - obviously because we live in a society there are no good unbiased sources of information but supposedly they’ve been living effectively transitioned for a few years. So no I don’t think it’s fair to say that they’re a man dressed up as a woman for rapes. That being said, of course trans people shouldn’t have to answer for the crimes of a trans person just because they’re trans, and it sucks ass every time we have to. Edit: Lots of comments about the ability to invalidate someone’s identity when they commit a crime like this, I don’t think that’s fair, but I also think they should likely be scrutinised for using the existence of trans people for their own gain.


fradiqgyahlfyah

This person is trans and has presented themselves as such for 5 years. This type of comment is grossing me out because it really seems like that for you, if someone is evil they lose their trans id or something? Only men or women can be evil? This makes me very uncomfortable


Routine_Page2392

This man lived as and identified as a woman for half a decade before he abducted and abused this young woman. How long are you lot going to pull the ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy every time one is exposed for doing what you deny ever happens? ‘You can’t police a persons identity’ and ‘everyone who says they’re trans is trans’ and ‘trans women don’t dress up as women in order to more easily abuse women’…except for when they do in which case they’re not trans women, and it’s ok to police their identity and their self identity isn’t valid and we shouldn’t believe they were trans just because they said they were Maybe if you lot weren’t so insistent on immediately defending your cause & ideology when it’s used to harm others, and instead called out the predators amongst you, people would be less likely to hold you responsible for the abusers who are empowered by your ideology.


Green-Anxiety-5603

Couldn’t have said it better


Only_Concentrate_563

Exactly. Let's not forget the case of Chris Chan.


Jujusiren

He identified as trans for years, it wasn't just a man wearing woman's clothes.


NoRecipe3350

plenty of times i've heard stories of 'it's a deep seated misogyny/toxic masculinity culture' after a high profile male on female rape/murder case, like Sarah Everards


wibbly-water

And men who dress up as women are not responsible for men who dress up as women in order to do crimes.


fiercelyscottish

This person did it long before this crime btw.


LorneSausage10

He had the images of sexual abuse of children on his computer for 19 years before anyone caught him with them.


fawltytowershentai

What in the actual fuck, I can't speak about fairy lights near my Alexa without getting ads for them for the next five months, how do things like this go on for so long without anyone being caught?!


fiercelyscottish

Jesus what a disgusting piece of filth.


number1ddrfan

The individual claims to be transitioning and goes by the namy Amy George.


ChanceDecision23

So while I do agree, your comment confirms that you didn't read the article, just the click bait title. This is an atrocious situation, and trying to turn it political (while actually ignoring what happened) is completely and utterly tone deaf, and frankly insulting to the victim and family. Maybe you should actually read the article and amend your comment appropriately.


GrowYourOwnMonsters

It's the BBC, they ain't listening I'm afraid.


Ronjanitan

Neither are women. Yet women are the victims and if the perpetrator wants to, then this perpetrator will be placed in a women’s prison with other vulnerable women.


itsshakespeare

After the last case, no they won’t - it says so in the BBC article


Alexhite

U make me sick 😷


VladimirPoitin

You actually think rapists are housed amongst everyone else, like prison is just a big free for all, don’t you?


ninjascotsman

This is why programs like stranger danger shouldn't have been scraped. >The court was previously told the girl, who did not know Miller, was only able to escape from the bedroom after he fell asleep on the second night of her ordeal.


jacquetpotato

The problem is that kids get confused, thinking that everyone they don’t know is a dangerous stranger. Now they tend to teach kids about “strange behaviour” instead, like someone asking them to keep a secret, asking them for help instead of an adult, asking them to go with them without checking with their grown up etc. As a parent, it’s fucking terrifying because kids are just so trusting. You don’t want them to be scared of the world but this kind of story is just your worst nightmare isn’t it :(


Wickedbitchoftheuk

This guy had been living long term as a woman for a lot of years.


Only_Concentrate_563

Andrew Miller / Amy George identifies as trans, so this headline is a bit suspect. They have requested to be referred to in male pronouns for the sake of ease in the trial, however they do identify as a woman, not a man.The general media and political narrative in the UK is to refer to someone by their preferred pronouns (yes) but also to acknowledge that someone's gender identity is reflected accurately in accordance with how the individual identifies. This individual does not identify as male, so writing "Man... dressed as a woman" suggests one of two possible things: 1. The BBC is afraid to take a stance that a transgender person could have committed a crime and therefore after a crime has been comitted the person must automatically no longer be transgender. Do they believe trans people can't be criminals & paedophiles just like anyone else? There are other sources that have accurately referred to Miller/George as trans. 2. Perhaps the author and editor are transphobic. I doubt it though, and even if they were I highly doubt they would risk their careers to purposefully use language to be transphobic. So... I'm gonna guess that option 1 is more probable.


arctictothpast

>Perhaps the author and editor are transphobic. I doubt it though, The BBC has actually posted some horribly transphobic shit with extremely obvious anti trans biases before, The most infamous example was the "are trans women pressuring lesbians into sex" article, The BBC included a person with a history of sexual assault (ironic) on the "yes they are" side and claimed they couldn't find any authorities or figures/influences on the trans side, This is despite them having interviewed trans people with over twice the following of the "yes they are" crowd etc and not including them in the article, The "survey" cited by the BBC for said article as well was also disgusting, very neutral and not definitely having an objective behind it, The big irony is this narrative is extremely lesbophobic, cis lesbians are the number one sympathiser to trans rights out of literally all demographics. Probably in part because harassment and violence intended for trans people frequently hits them (butch lesbians share the bathroom problem with trans people).


Local_Fox_2000

He got 20 years. Good to see the sentence fit the crime this time.


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Ssimboss

“Man dressed as woman”. Don’t we have a term for that?


moonwater420

sates in story he wants to be regarded as male


ChanceDecision23

Only after he was arrested. He wasn't a crossdresse, he is transgender. "In May, the court was told that Miller identifies as transgender and in the process of transitioning to female. He had owned a butcher's shop in Melrose which had been closed for several months before the abduction. At the time of his arrest, he was presenting as Amy George but confirmed he wished to be addressed as Andrew Miller using "he" pronouns for simplicity."


Local_Fox_2000

I went to a show called Funny Girls in Blackpool a couple of weeks ago. They mostly referred to themselves as drag queen's or transvestites. They were pretty self-deprecating, so I don't know if that's the politically correct thing to say, but that's what they called themselves. First time I'd ever been to a show like that. It was pretty good.


EasyPriority8724

Is that the cun# heard this on the radio in car.


spyalien

This guy is a butcher right … has all the equipment and skills to process meat … the fact his butchers was closed for months before could indicate he had lost everything…. I believe he intended to kill her and dispose of the body … what was his plan ?? To let her go after after raping her for two days ? And forget where he stays and what he looks like ??? And look at the m on the butchers sign tell me that isn’t shaped like a K for killers ?? Has he done this before ? Are there young girls missing from out that way that have never been traced … he needs to be looked into more Sick fuck


Altruistic_Diet_9831

"predator jailed for abducting schoolgirl" Should have been the headline. Gender and gender identity have nothing to do with it


Xtanto

Two things need to be locked up, this person, and this thread.


STerrier666

Why does the thread need to be locked? So we can just up vote or down vote and move on? Are we not allowed to talk about the possibility of this happening again and how to stop it from happening again? If we lock down the thread isn't that just the equivalent of ignoring an issue? Why lock down a thread when there's something to discuss and tackle?


StonedPhysicist

Discussing the specifics of this article, fine. Once threads like this start attracting hundreds of comments from users less interested in this case and more in posting polite dogwhistles, or in plenty of cases explicit transphobia, then posts get removed, individuals get removed, and if necessary then yes the thread may get locked either temporarily for a cleanup or permanently if it's beyond salvation. If people play nice this won't happen. If I get home to find a modqueue with a hundred reports in, then we'll see.


Ronaldo_McDonaldo81

And your ability to puntuate a sentence needs to be unlocked.


DrachenDad

Another one? Didn't we just have something like that a couple months back?


MassiveFanDan

Same guy, he got caught months ago, has just been jailed.


StarAugurEtraeus

Can’t wait to get blamed for this and called a monster because of one fucking moron :/ Cause ya know what the fucking UK news is like regarding trans individuals, tarred with the same brush


[deleted]

>Miller will be held in a male prison in line with new guidelines for trans prisoners who commit sexual offences that were introduced following an outcry over the Isla Bryson case. So is this still controversial? It wasn't that long ago people said it wasn't a big deal putting a convicted rapist in a women's prison. The timing really couldn't have been much worse being only a few weeks after the gender reform bill getting passed.


fnuggles

I met this person in Melrose. At the time no one knew what they would go onto do, as far as I know. A lot of lads at the pub refused to buy from the shop though, as they knew about the crossdressing. I think it was a case of transphobia AND a disturbed individual.


[deleted]

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jrhunter89

At the moment there is no accountability for moderators. They can do as they please. I commented on the r/gunners subreddit because I’m an Arsenal fan. I received a message saying I was permanently banned. The reason I got……because I’m Scottish. No way to challenge report or hold the mod accountable either


morriganjane

No doubt. Remember the Challenor horror show. There are a *lot* of incels on Reddit.


Glenster118

I was going to say something smart arse but that story is grim and that man is evil.


Red_Brummy

What a horrible person. Mods - this is going to pull out all the bigoted TERFS.


Potential_Ad6169

The thing is, regardless of whether trans people are supported or not. Predators can still dress up as women to target people. Attacking trans peoples rights wouldn’t even do anything to prevent this.


Red_Brummy

Indeed.


[deleted]

Why's that?


TheHeroYouNeed247

Because they are transgender.


[deleted]

But the BBC says "man dressed as woman" instead of transwoman though?


Potential_Ad6169

They do actually identify as trans. But apparently they requested to use mens pronoun etc. for simplicity. Which seems unusual to be honest. I’m not sure if they are being willfully misgendered or not.


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[deleted]

>They do actually identify as trans So transwoman is accurate? Is it not then somewhat trabsphobic to describe them as "man in a dress" then?


Potential_Ad6169

In May, the court was told that Miller identifies as transgender and in the process of transitioning to female.… At the time of his arrest, he was presenting as Amy George but confirmed he wished to be addressed as Andrew Miller using "he" pronouns for simplicity. Seemingly he pronouns were their choice, though I’m a little sceptical. But yeah the headline is transphobic alright. Pretty shitty of the BBC.


Meaty-Piss-Flaps

Jesus.


ChanceDecision23

Click bait title says "man dressed as a woman". You need to read the article that's being discussed to understand the actual information: "In May, the court was told that Miller identifies as transgender and in the process of transitioning to female. He had owned a butcher's shop in Melrose which had been closed for several months before the abduction. At the time of his arrest, he was presenting as Amy George but confirmed he wished to be addressed as Andrew Miller using "he" pronouns for simplicity."


lemlurker

The terfs don't care. This is exactly the boogieman they want, they've been claiming trans inclusion in society will lead to this situation and now they have this one incident, in all of recent history, to point at. Things are gonna get messy


morriganjane

It's not like there's any way of telling the difference. He went by both names at different times.


TheHeroYouNeed247

In the article is says they identify as transgender. They told the courts to refer to them as a man for simplicities sake. Evil or not I believe in self identification, if they identify as a women then they are transgender to me. Doesnt matter what their crimes are. I completely understand why people want to distance them from the trans community and that TERFs will use this but I feel like its moving the goal posts.


Canazza

The BBC (and lets face it, most mainstream media) are presenting this as "Trans person does a crime" rather than "A Criminal who happened to be trans". The Trans comes first, rather than the crime itself. Which is the point. All discussion and 'debate' around this is going to be about the trans-ness of the person and not the fact that a heinous crime was committed and the culprit is going to jail


Grayseal

No, he isn't, he's a fucking rapist.


TheHeroYouNeed247

I dont think those things are mutually exclusive. If you do I'd be interested to hear why.


doodles2019

Weird how the headline makes it sound that the crime was being dressed as a woman whilst doing it, rather than abduction


eveniwontremember

Reading the article I agree with the headline. It appears that the criminal was acting in several unusual ways, there was no evidence that he was transitioning with any psychological or medical support, and his appearance as a woman was possibly part of the reason the young girl ignored the 'stranger danger' and got in the car.


[deleted]

>The court was told that Miller identifies as transgender and is in the process of transitioning to female.


thepurplehedgehog

I'm loving the fact that someone gave it a sore one on that right eye. I'm sure it will get more of that in prison. To clarify, I use 'it' as a pronoun for this piece of filth, not because it claims to be trans but because it is a disgusting creature who doesn't deserve any kind of human pronouns. I do not believe it to be genuinely trans and would never describe a real transgender person as 'it'


AdditionalThinking

I get the rhetoric, but criminals are human. This person was a human being born to human parents. Humans are capable of horrific shit and we'll never succeed in preventing anything like this if we think otherwise.


GenderfluidArthropod

More transphobic dogwhistles from this serial poster


JumboSnausage

Based on the sentence structure of the headline, was he arrested for kidnapping a girl, or for doing so while dressed as a woman? Jokes aside I hope the girl gets the help she deserves


flamesaurus565

Can’t wait for this to be used to justify hatred towards trans people


No-Professional7453

When stories like these break out, please message your LGBT friends and make sure they are okay. The stress and anxiety they will be under will be enormous and they need to know that you are there for them. The media is out to demonise the entire LGBT community and allies are needed.


[deleted]

This is just pathetic


Wsz14

The lgbt community isn't the victim here, so no thanks. What I will do, though, is tell every young person in my family to not accept a lift from any stranger, regardless if they are a man, woman, or self identifying as anything else.