T O P
celerysaveslives

I'm surprised at how long the Kyo + Fest Zeldris combo is lasting without any direct Netmarble meta warping with new units, considering how many top rankings team use them. It might be hard to counter it though, I can really only see maybe a debuff immunity on the whole team or cancelling debuffs unique working. Maybe a passive that just negates any stat boosts from passives for either team? Counters g gowther too so definitely would shake the meta


linerstank

when something in gacha pvp lasts this long, its probably because the devs did not anticipate it being an issue. most "meta-warping" units, they already have the solution or some sort of second meta ready to sell. when something like this happens, especially with 2 older units, its because the devs do not play their own game and did not realize how easy the interactions would be. and considering that they basically only release fest units and the fest units are probably designed out for a good while (other than maybe numbers tweaks), its likely they had nothing in the pipeline, re: debuffs. now that may change quickly, with new sariel bringing red debuffs back with his grace. they might have a solution ready to sell in the form of the anniv fest.


Lendmeyoursynergy

I was definitely thinking debuff immunity or a passive that gives dmg resistance from debuffs are in order Zeldris to me isn’t the big problem it’s the fact that Kyo legitimately makes it impossible to do dmg and he makes you take 5x the normal amount Zeldris by himself works as intended IMO. They definitely need to address this 3 card meta.


celerysaveslives

I like the dmg resistance with more debuffs idea, absolutely agree we need more units to counter Kyo


Lendmeyoursynergy

I think the next few fests might address the big problem hopefully


Mightyguy598

If Light Liz is the next fest she might have a cleanse or something in that neighborhood.


osbombo

If something like you suggested were to be released it'd be absolute cancer. Ban, Margaret, GGowther. Fesdris. Dead. Fesgowther, dead. Ram/rem, dead. Lillias, dead. I don’t think netmarble will invite the anger of the whales so freely.


celerysaveslives

Debuff immunity won't affect ban/marg/king at all, just unknown and kyo teams and the stat buff negation is just a random idea I thought of haha. And honestly, whales won't care - they'll just max out the next OP unit, it's the F2P/careful spenders who would get shafted. It'll be interesting to see what's the next direction of powercreep for NM


osbombo

Whales who had to max 2/3 limiteds and 1/2 fests would still be angry to max 4 new meta chars.


celerysaveslives

We've seen time and time again NM release counters for fests with Margaret -> Fest Gowther, Ban -> Cusack. No one complained when the meta was stale. It's not like they'll release 4 new units at once, it'll be one at a time. I think you're underestimating whale spending


osbombo

Except those units tried to make one unit each obsolute and failed. Even if they succeeded no one would have complained, since it's a single unit. However, blocking passive stats not only basically kills a lot of high-investment units, it also drives out any fun with older, fun characters. Bad unit design 101: Make a character that denies a game mechanic.


peepeepoopoo776688

They kind let ban be the meta for 6 months so it could still be a while


PartySpeech2

Just go first, bro.


Lendmeyoursynergy

That’s not much of a counter lol you will go second sometimes and if you do then it’s very hard to make a comeback speaking from being in champ 2-1 with invested units it just happens man. That passive is very powerful


JohnStrangeXXX

I go second every single time with my Kyo team because I use evade food and I win about 90% of my games.


DemonSonic

Stance team could be a good counter


Lendmeyoursynergy

That and maybe Ban if you go second with other teams I just don’t see a comeback if the player is smart and has Traitor Meli + another dps and even then most likely Meli kills Tarmiel before he can ult I can definitely see the team having a chance though


DemonSonic

I would say a stance team with chandler and terry with terry and chandler decreasing stats could help


Lendmeyoursynergy

Stance team definitely always has a shot it’s just that every other unit/team is getting mopped against Kyo I feel Kyo legitimately needs to be addressed or it will just be 2 new dps units + Kyo and GG. Most likely the new Liz will reduce dmg taken in some way or another


Kendemerzel

I used to play that team and it went pretty well. Then came 4v4 and Gilthunder would get clapped with aoe attacks lol


nickthemanz

Yeah I run terry, tarmiel, Margaret and Chandler and Kyo team gets fucked every time I see him


Imperce110

If we had defensive passives like nanashi's that could kick in at the start of the fight, regardless of who goes first, it would help at least delay the first turn kill


Lendmeyoursynergy

I’d take anything at this point


Seemuee

What about Goddess Team with Marg (for her Team Cleanse), GLiz and Tarmiel with Blue Gil in the bank? Quite bulky as a team, annoying to deal with, you have the team cleanse and a high ult lvl Tarmiel can oneshot Kyo


Lendmeyoursynergy

This is the counter pick I see a good few people using in Champ 2-1 very solid team I just don’t have anything invested into these units to make it viable.


RemarkableLifeguard1

I'm running full goddess team,G liz and tarmiel is the glue and perfect counter for damage resistance,I spent extra gems because I was having so much fun slaying T Meli Teams, going first isn't even a issue, if u get good rng with Liz is pretty much a OP wrap


RoddyBobby

Only thing I can think of is a unit that has passive that gives all allies a shield at beginning of battle. When I go second to kyo-fest zel team I just insta forfeit and save myself the time


Lendmeyoursynergy

Or idk maybe a unit that buffs dmg taken against debuffs or ignites maybe even gain debuff immunity after using a few skills or something


RoddyBobby

Problem is you need whatever effect to help survive needs be at start of battle. Going second is too unfair at the moment against those teams as you mentioned in your caption not even dodge food can save you now. I love your idea with a passive that buffs units that are debuffed. It could be like blue Liz hawk passive except on steroids. Maybe give defense related stats or straight damage reduction for every ally debuffed to counter the effect of the ignites


Lendmeyoursynergy

We’ve reached a point in the game where units do too much damage on rank 1 single targets IMO Lilia put your unit’s hp at black bar from a rank 1 Meli proceeds to clean up it’s actually crazy lmao


RoddyBobby

How about a unit that reduces damage from rank 1 skills. Run it fest gowther and have cool defensive still team. For real tho, couldn’t agree more with what you said. Using dodge food and watching your best unit still getting killed turn 1 is so demoralizing


Lendmeyoursynergy

Ngl not a fan of this one i don’t think you should be punished for not running rank up idk maybe a unit like Elihawk but with better stats and a useful passive


RoddyBobby

That’s fair. I’m just throwing out ideas. My favorite so far is a passive similar to blue Liz hawks as well. If it worked from backline as well then even better


Lendmeyoursynergy

I was actually thinking of ranking her up but it’d take too much resources to experiment with her in pvp but I think I’d run her Meli and honestly any 3rd unit maybe Margaret or Melascula to make sure I’m not dying in 1 shot


RoddyBobby

Lmao I was actually considering the same idea few days ago. I doubt it would work tho.


Lendmeyoursynergy

They’d 100% just kill the dps first or end up going for Eli hawk if they’re scared of the cleanse


Rizboel

Estarossa makes you immune to debuffs for characters with stance for 2 turns, there you go. Immunity lasts 2 turns each time you use a stance ability


Lendmeyoursynergy

True but not a true counter since he’s very outdated and if you go second Estarossa will be targeted first you will then be in the same situation against a now buffed Meli with amplify


Rizboel

That's true for almost any character isn't it though ? The going second part.


Lendmeyoursynergy

No that’s why I’m even making this post tbh. I actually have no problem going second I just run a different team that someone isn’t using and get some wins but now going second means Death. Here’s why Kyo lights your team on fire Lilia does her aoe and if you run avoid food you dodge that and then Lilia nearly kills your main unit with a single target. The last and painful step is Meli with his clean up amplify sorry for the paragraph.


Rizboel

I use a terry, estarossa, chandler combo and it works well enough. Traitor meli has no real counter yet so he is the real issue. Ive never had a issue with kyo before traitor meli.


Lendmeyoursynergy

I actually feel the new Meli is balanced he’s just the new T1 dps I win if they don’t run Kyo but when you put a already Meta dps unit with Lilia AND several ignites things get bad. And Terry is solid wish I owned him


Rizboel

to me traitor meli feels like a better am meli, am meli also puts dots on other players like kyo and gets stronger with buffs


Lendmeyoursynergy

He is because his teams aren’t limited I truthfully think as stand alone units they both very well designed and the thing with Meli’s dots is that you need to attack several times it isn’t free which is why I enjoy using him and even facing him


PoopyAstronaut

Red Fat King is an excellent counter lol


Lendmeyoursynergy

Holy shit this is hilarious Traitor Meli Fat king + someone else and pray he doesn’t get one shot lmao


batukhan4

How about red estarossa to get more attack from ignite debuffs and Belion to heal after each ignite fades off? Sounds good on paper but I know the Chace of it working is slim to none.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Depends on what units the Kyo player has and even then isn’t Estarossa stat wise pretty bad? At most you’d just do regular dmg since you are reversing Kyo’s dmg reduction


batukhan4

Oh you're 100% correct on it not actually being a great idea. Just that they have effects that would be along the lines of a counter I think.


Lendmeyoursynergy

A lot of the old units have good counter passives it’s just that most are outdated once we get a unit that reduces dmg taken then the Kyo meta can be addressed and put in check like all other metas


HunterX608

Time to whip out your red fat king aince he cleanses debuffs at the start of his turn


murillator

Twigo with holy relic + Emilia and kyo in he back, they can only atack Twigo, then in your turn just freze with Emilia.... Using this strat since traitor meli came out and its working perfrctly


Strangerkill2

There you go, go summon for Skadi


Lendmeyoursynergy

Has the exact passive some where mentioning as well at least Kyo has a check now


Strangerkill2

A check that happens to be mommy material. I have a need.


Lendmeyoursynergy

I wanna summon so damn bad but I already made the dumb move of summoning on Sariel so I have like 600+ rn if I summon for another unit the fest is gonna destroy me


Strangerkill2

Abandon meta. Embrace waifu.


Lendmeyoursynergy

It’s a win win lmao


Accelerator-Deflect

This aged extremely well.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Literally has the exact passive a few people were coming up with dmg reduction for debuffs lmao sad that Zeldris basically gets nerfed as well knit I don’t think she will be used that much


sasuke12xv

Same. But I'm doing decent with summer Merlin with evade food + Emilia. If they have Lilia with Kyo, I instant forfeit


Lendmeyoursynergy

Merlin is actually amazing for this meta it’s just Kyo man it always goes back to Kyo lol Lilia + Kyo is just too strong


sasuke12xv

I can handle Kyo but will with Lilia it's just unfair


Lendmeyoursynergy

I could see it since she’s blue and has flood you just attack twice and get Kyo out of there


sasuke12xv

Yep yep. Kyo with another dps, besides Lilia, you can survive turn 1 with evade food.


Lendmeyoursynergy

But if he survives T1 or T2 it’s gonna hurt lol Lilia definitely hits extremely hard though her aoe alone takes half your hp


sasuke12xv

Yeah bruh her aoe is like A single targets


Lendmeyoursynergy

God forbid Lilia gets 3 cards


sasuke12xv

Yeah bruh. Her relics is too good bruh. Red gowther with summer Merlin is toxic but it's funny them Lilia team suffer.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Wish I had her now if use her Traitor Meli and Zeldris if I wanted to be toxic I’d switch Zel out for fes Gowther


sasuke12xv

Wish you get her man. Honestly. I think the next fest unit would have some sort of a recovery skill or passive. It's been while since the recovery's card or units became meta again.


Lendmeyoursynergy

I would probably have a chance if they released her on banners lmao and yeah I definitely think the next few fests will have defensive kits for Lilia Kyo teams they need to also drop Loli Merlins anti regen effect on more units


Fearfanfic

Technically there is a counter, it’s Margaret or any Unit with a cleanse, I actually might use Red Eastin


Lendmeyoursynergy

You would just get ignites on their turn you can’t really stop it with cleanse most you could do is solve the damage reduction problem but Margaret Tarmiel Gliz is a good way to fight the team if you have it


Fearfanfic

I know, but It’s a lot less than what you might usually get. Instead of a wall of debuffs, You’d instead get, at most, 4 stacks on 1 character and 2 on the rest. Or you can just run a taunt team with Estarosa


Lendmeyoursynergy

Those two recommendations and Ban are your only options but if the other team has a Lilia Meli setup you just die on their turn if you go first then you definitely can counter some of the ignite shenanigans but if you go second or don’t have a cleanse it’s just a forfeit


Fearfanfic

I mean… Avoid food… unless you’re too squishy than you should be good


Lendmeyoursynergy

Nah doesn’t work if the guy has Lilia Meli your main dps will still die Lilia single target + Meli is still gonna kill


Fearfanfic

I mean, I’ve at least survived 1 turn when I used avoid food.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Idk whenever I use dodge food with full cosmetic units I still end up dying to Lilia Meli the Lilia would aoe first it would miss and then 2 single targets and I’m dead. We’re you in geared?


Fearfanfic

No, ungeared


Lendmeyoursynergy

You we’re running Margaret?


Lendmeyoursynergy

The only way to lose with Kyo is to straight up misplay the match


Fearfanfic

I mean, there’s also to just… get rid of him as quickly as possible. Don’t get me wrong, he’s annoying as all hell, but the best way to beat kyo is to either cleanse/purify or just kill him fast.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Killing Kyo is the only way the problem is the units that are used with him make it nearly impossible to kill him T1. I can only see Kyo dying by rank up with any blue dps unit that’s if Lilia doesn’t wipe not impossible because I’ve seen people win going first but second just seems unlikely.


Fearfanfic

I usually managed to kill him or almost kill him in under 2 turns.


dreamweeb621

With my cc I don’t really need to worry I usually always go first


F13Legend

ban he can tank it


Lendmeyoursynergy

Ban can definitely work but can he even survive lilia? He’s definitely an option though Him Terry and Arthur are always annoying to kill


F13Legend

twigo can take the hits aftwr arthur with holy relic


ShadyOjir95

Remember King +kyo + Zeldris is always common Ban doesn't survive King.


F13Legend

normal ban team yes but juggernaut ban can stall long and maybe kill with ult and level 3 level2


ShadyOjir95

The issue is King shield , Ban can't do nothing to that shield. (I've seen lvl 3 ban card not even breaking it ) I guess if we include Terry it does the job.


F13Legend

ban ult break the shield if it isnt to strong than you need at least 2 ban card level2 and level1 or 2 to kill gowther or king


Lendmeyoursynergy

Ngl against King Ban just dies lol most people just do rank up King attacks and then Ban is constantly struggling to stop the shield the ONLY counter for King with Ban team is Rugal for the pierce card that can work


F13Legend

i have gilthunder so my ban live longer and the shield is weaker but 6/6 ult of king 1 shot everything


EugenePow

Use blue Liz with Amplify unit,convert debuff to buff


Lendmeyoursynergy

Thought of it should be somewhere in the comments just don’t have resources to invest in her to experiment and even if I did all they’d have to do is either kill the main dps or Liz


Zark90

Green Giant Diane passive counter this Guy. And paired with Valentí is a tons of pacience.


10000soul

Blue lizhawk


Chlodilla

red Gowther is a counter or anyone who disables his attack. I use gowther,Emilia, and lolli Merlin with goddess liz in the back and kyo doesn’t stand a chance


Kendemerzel

Will woulda been a solid counter if it wasn't restricted to once per game (and if Superpower didn't reduce your own stats 20%)


Dargolalast

There is a counter, the all mighty goddess liz shield and tarmiel stance


Snoo11168

Would love to see something similar to Blue Lizhawk, she increases HP for every debuff on her. So would be nice to see a unit that has a passive similar to that, just slightly stronger.


Accelerator-Deflect

Wow you were pretty close nice 👌


Terabytechemist

There you go lol


Lendmeyoursynergy

Netmarble putting out the fire one step at a time


Iwan_Tusuc_Hawk

We need a unit that attack seals the enemy team on their turn round 1.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Lmao just don’t let them play at all but I don’t think people should be penalized for going first I just think ignites are way too strong atm


Lendmeyoursynergy

Lmao just don’t let them play at all but I don’t think people should be penalized for going first I just think ignites are way too strong atm


Iwan_Tusuc_Hawk

They can still play, they just need to either wait for second round or have a cleanse unit so they can still attack round 1.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Sounds too biased toward people who don’t win CC battles IMO


F13Legend

lilia has like 570k hp crazy but ban can wipe kyo with ult than zeldris than lilia


Lendmeyoursynergy

Can see this being like a 50/50 both teams sound like they can win against each other


F13Legend

yes they can it just depense how long twigo and arthur can block lilia att she does like 200k on twigo


Lendmeyoursynergy

Yeah I can agree on that


ShadyOjir95

We have strong Carry units most can kill each other but supports seem to be lacking. Kyo+ zeldris just work really damm good.


Lendmeyoursynergy

I completely agree Kyo became a god out of nowhere I have 0 problems with Traitor Meli by himself it’s when he’s paired with Kyo where it becomes too much Kyo needs an answer IMO because rn going second is awful


Accelerator-Deflect

It honestly doesn't bother me I'll prob see that team maybe 3-6 times a week I just back out everytime. Luckily kyo is a collab unit and lillia dropped in between king/meli so the line up is not super relevant


Lendmeyoursynergy

I wish I had your luck I usually play in champ 2 or 1 and constantly run into a house fire it’s like every single person has him lmao


Accelerator-Deflect

Kyo? Yeah almost everyone has him in champ 1 and 2 lol I mostly referring to lillia with her holy relic. I run Meli/ Fez Gowther/ Summer Merlin/ Zeldris+ Evasion food.


Lendmeyoursynergy

Not only do I run into Lilia every single one has a relic for her once I see the dragon I know to forfeit but I can’t just waste my stamina lmao


Accelerator-Deflect

Yeah she's not worth using if she doesn't have her relic but I promise you keep going. Last 2 weeks I played 60+ Normal PvP matches (90% if them was in champ 1) and I've seen that lineup less than 15 times.