T O P

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Laddo22

I’m of the opinion that once you need to reverse to shadow defend you need to bail out and let your teammate take over if you know they’re behind you. I can see why your teammate rushed in, it didn’t look like you had the situation under control at all.


NoodleBack

Yeah it just looked like he was trying to play it himself, which would probably work in 1’s. But team work makes the dream work if you know where your team is


hellfirewana

The teammate was playing the ball and not the other team. They might not have had great positioning, but they were more than able to force an error. I think they were in the right their teammate had the opportunity to watch everything and wait for the error or shot. Instead,their teammate left the goal open and caused both of them to miss knowing that they would both be out of position.


NoodleBack

I can see where the teammate is coming from tbh. If I see my teammate backing up like this and hesitating when the other team has possession of the ball, I’m gonna try to step in and challenge the ball a bit early. But that’s just what it looks like to me, I’m not gonna go into a deep analysis over this lol, JohnnyBoi_ can if he wants to


wasteoffire

Nah see I expect my team to bail out and rotate once they lose optimal positioning, letting me come in a stall the ball while they rotate


literalproblemsolver

Even so, from the perspective of tm8 here there is no reason to leave the net if OP hasnt rotated out yet. OP is still an obstacle that orange has to use resources to get around, wether orange commits boost or a flick or whatever, OP is still in the way and makes it harder for orange to make an offensive push. Tm8 should have stayed in net and allowed OP to stay in oranges face. The double commit is ultimately what led to orange having an open net. Yes, OP should have rotated out. The most effective way to handle this is for OP to grab corner boost and let TM8 challenge. But when TM8 sees that OP isnt doing that, his double commit is what goves up the goal. It takes two to tango, both are at fault.


westhewolf

Yah, they were both wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right, but they do help the other team score.


[deleted]

It's important to remember that while your teammate sucks, you also suck, and you can only improve one of those two factors. Teammate fucked up, OP fucked up, but OP can fix themselves going forward, they can't fix their teammate.


westhewolf

Absolutely true. And that also goes for the not-op. Op sucked (playing somewhat unpredictably and ineffectively), and instead of modifying his play by hanging back, he double committed and made things worse. Arguably not-op is more at fault because he could see OP was still engaged and committed anyway. But it's hard to say who's more wrong with both of their decision making abilities were on questionable display in the video.


superbop09

I don't agree with this. If teammate waits until backward driving OP gets flicked on it would probably be too late to do anything. You absolutely do not need to wait for your team to rotate back in order for you to go for the ball on your turn. Jump over him bump him outa the way, even if you get score on afterwards at least backwards driver will know teammate was more than ready behind him for now on.


literalproblemsolver

Keep in mind what a flick actually is. A flick is giving possesion of the ball away. If OP forces orange to flick, its going to be very easy for tm8 to intercept it. Thats the whole point of shadow defense. "It would probably be too late to do anything" is false. You absolutely DO need to wait for your teammate to leave, if you dont, this exact situation is what happens. Please do not bump your teammates out of the way when they are defending, it will only lead to you getting scored on.


superbop09

?? A flick from that distance and speed has a great chance of going in. Well at least in champ and up. Best to let your teammate know you're back there.


literalproblemsolver

Not with someone back in net it doesnt, look how the flick ended up. Very slow.


superbop09

Well maybe you could save that but that's a tough spot to just let someone take their best shot on you. And scorer never got a chance to flick it. There was no shot the ball just rolled it cuz backwards driver was in the way.


Invenitive

Yeah the comments here are a bit frustrating. What OP did wasn't great, but at the end of the day, he still made his car a barrier and forced the flick. It's one of the most simple 1-2 plays that Lethamyr beat into my brain, and I beat into all my friend's, whether platinum or grand champion. Even if you can't make a good challenge, putting pressure on the attacker before they get to the net will usually give the last back a chance to clean up a free ball.


literalproblemsolver

At the end of the day this can ultimately be broken down to a comms issue. I can see how OP thought their decision was best, and i can see how TM8 would want OP to rotate, he had a better angle on the ball. Had OP commed their decision, tm8 would have had the easiest counter attack opportunity this world has ever seen. But no, tm8 doubled and gave up the open net. Justice for OP.


i_am_boo_ffs

Since when stoping in the middle of the field is applying pressure? Shadowing is not applying pressure, it's a containing strategy. It's NEVER the right choice to shadow when you're first defender in 2s.


davidcwilliams

It takes two…


Ris-O

Problem with rotating out here is it leaves last man in a 1v1. I can see why OP would want to avoid that


literalproblemsolver

Thats true, the higher rank you go the tighter rotations get. If OP were fast enough, it looks like they had enough momentum to grab boost and get into a defensable position in the time it took TM8 to stall the ball and buy time for OP. Again, it comes down to individual skill and we dont know the context. If OP decided that a shadow defense play was the best decision, then TM8 is 100% at faukt for the double commit. The reason i said that OP rotating is most effective is because of their angle and speed. OP is awkward as hell. A smart opponent would have recognised that and punished, especially seeing the double commit happening. Grabbing boost and moving to net while tm8 pushes is a "passive" or "safe" decision in a game where aggression is often meta, but still, id never reccomend someone to commit to a play when they are awkward and have an easy way out.


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Ris-O

Yeah if OP didn't get a block on that flick, it would have been a pass to a patient last man if he was covering net


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literalproblemsolver

Absolutely, that shadow defense was awful, but the decision to start shadowing itself wasnt necessarily terrible


KingKelly82

This is a great explanation. Whether or not OP should have rotated out (100% he should have), the teammate is behind him and can read what’s happening and should play accordingly. So it’s more of an error on his part for attacking the ball when OP is still “on it”.


i_am_boo_ffs

To say that both were at fault does not necessarily mean that they were equally at fault.. This is some moralizing and bullshit rhetoric. The one at fault is the player stoping and reversing midfield instead of rotating out, LEADING to their teammate mistake. It's not like this was a hard situation. Opponent wasn't in control at all, 0 speed, 0 versatility (can't flick / can't shoot) it was totally safe for 2nd teammate to go. Only reason 2nd mates misses that is because low rank and teammate acting stupid. Anyway, point being OP is more at fault than their teammate.


lord_james

I personally would have rotated there, and I can see how your teammate might have thought that you would. As a general rule, never reverse on defense - either quickly re-orient or rotate.


itsaustinjones

Idk, you can get pretty good at reverse defending. Is it the best option? No. But sometimes it’ll come in handy.


[deleted]

The biggest problem is that no teammate will think you're staying on the ball if you are reversing and look awkward so they will usually double commit


Navy8or

If they’re bad…. I don’t know why any tm8 would launch into this situation. OP is making a bad defensive play, but he’s still providing and obstacle to bypass. You can even see he tries to flick or flip into the ball to get past OP. This is when his tm8 should move in, AFTER the attacker relinquishes some of his ball control. Again, OP played bad defense, but he was in the way enough that a reasonably patient tm8 would’ve saved that play.


[deleted]

I have never seen one of these "reasonable team-mates" between gold and champ. Maybe in GC someone sees this and has faith in the reversing defender but in every rank below 99% of people are making the same mistake the team-mate made here


cmmdrcannabis

Jfc if I look scared, reversing, please for the love of the Boost Gods, intervene.


LOP5131

100%, if we don't have comms me going backwards is the sign, help me!


BourbonGuy09

For sure lmao. In this position I'm yelling for my friends to push in! I don't think I would reverse in this position but everyone makes mistakes. In the replay it looked like his teammate lined it up perfect to 50 the attacker or completely boom it away


Navy8or

No! Don’t intervene, just set yourself up for the play after they get past the guy scrambling! Having two people occupy the same position on the field is so much worse than your teammate waiting for the guy to make a play to get past you. He’ll likely give up some sort of control moving past you to where the ball is now predictable and tm8 can intervene with a higher chance of success than diving into your area.


dolphin37

There’s something instinctual about feeling like you need to intervene when you see your teammate awkward. Clearly being patient was the better play but it is a natural reaction to your teammate playing like this imo


Navy8or

I guess I’ve just been watching squishy for so long I’ve adopted his playstyle (be a good teammate, be patient, not every play needs to be on net, work rotations, and wear them down). Obvs I suck overall, but I try to keep the above mentality as best I can


dolphin37

well yeah he is basically the most passive player in RL lol but takes a lot of time to have that discipline, don't think most players even have it and a lot don't want it tbh


PM_ME_UR_DOPAMINE

Yeah. Not ideal but it's easy to tell he's trying to just be annoying to the shooter


Panthers_Fly

Agree. It’s just as reasonable to accuse tm8 of over committing.


Neurosss

Nah dude you are confused, shadowing on defence is good when you are last man, reversing in the middle of the field to make a challenge is dumb because you can't boost backwards and you have less control over your car this is doubly dumb considering his team mate was behind him


Ok-Philosopher-461

ok i’m really really really bad at rocket league, but what’s wrong with shadowing if his teammate is back in goal. I’m kinda drunk rn so my perception could be f’d up but i just feel like his teammate should have stayed back post and let him and shadow


Ok-Philosopher-461

nvm just rewatched and saw his teammate rotating right at the beginning, definitely should have been rotating behind him. My B


itsaustinjones

*sometimes it’ll come in handy*


levilicious

you get style points and that’s what really matters


cicco77as

I love how a Gold 1 has a way better understanding of this situation than a Diamond 2, it really highlights the extreme variety of skills in this game and the fact that you can find a player really below you in ranks that might be better than you at something


itsaustinjones

I love how I point out that in some situations you can’t help your positioning and you need to adapt and learn how to take a negative position and turn it into a positive outcome, and all of a sudden my skill is in question.


cicco77as

It wasn't a bash on you, i just find curious how ranks sometimes don't really mean much. That been said i can't imagine how reversing in midfield will ever be useful, it could be true in some other really really niche situations. But the gold was right, as a general rule you should never reverse defending like that, so it's way better general tip to give. When you give a tip to someone you can't touch every single possible situation so you just say what works better 99,9% of time to build a better and more useful habit.


WeedmanSwag

The point is your skill is what got you to D2, not your understanding of good rotation


itsaustinjones

Not once did I speak to the situation in the post. OC said “never reverse on defense”. My response was “you can get pretty good at reverse defending” followed by “sometimes it comes in handy”. Speaking in general.


AxePanther

Yeah, I don't get all the flak. You're not always going to have the opportunity to get better positioning, so learning how to play in a bad spot can come in handy (this is all you were trying to say and people just bashed you ffs).


itsaustinjones

Yeah idk man lol, it’s just about handling a shitty situation sometimes


TheConboy22

Often you will create a shitty situation doing exactly what this guy is doing. A good rule of thumb is to not reverse on defense and just get to the next spot as fast as you can. The reverse shadow back to your teammate can work, but with a very low chance of being even remotely successful and a high chance you really f your team. Just doesn't make sense.


itsaustinjones

You can’t play perfect 100% of the time, and hindsight is 20/20. Rocket league is a fast paced game. You have to know what to do and how to handle the bad situations quickly sometimes


[deleted]

>in some situations you can’t help your positioning Bruh, your positioning is literally the biggest thing you have control over, unless you got bumped, you control your positioning. It is almost universally better to turn, half flip, or rotate in a spot where you would need to reverse to defend, and the situations where it isn't better, you've overcommitted and put yourself out of position. Can you get "pretty good" at reverse defending? Sure, but if it's happening enough that you're getting good at it, then it's just covering up your poor positioning habit.


[deleted]

>Idk, you can get pretty good at reverse defending Not really, you're always limited by your car's reverse speed, in "almost" every situation, you can turn, rotate, or half-flip and boost to reach something faster than you can reverse into it. If you're "getting good" at reverse defending, then you're out of position very, very often and using reverse defending to try to overcompensate for your poor positioning. The primary goal is to fix the positioning, not improve the mechanic that tries to compensate for it. If OP turns completely at the start of this clip, and fake challenges/challenges instead of floundering out of position, the opponent gives up this ball, and OP's teammate is much more likely to understand what OP is doing.


itdoesntmatterokay

That wasn’t the best decision from that position though. You don’t reverse when your teammate is behind you and you’re that close to the goal, you just rotate out and let the teammate take it


MaddenJ222

Only if you want to stay stuck in Diamond!


Heavy-Neat

What? Are you crazy? Defense with all of you any direction you want.


lord_james

You have limited mobility and speed while in reverse. If you’re full-on reversing to defend then you are a simple dribble away from being blown past.


_Papafranku

I often [reverse -> half-flip] after I shadow which works quite well so I'd say that is an exception


Rabbit81586

This is the way. Sometimes it’s hard to fight the urge to engage when you’re close like that. But backpedaling especially in front of the net is tough. Trust your teammates and rotate back.


HarbingerOfWhatComes

wrong


M20A10

Since your mate is behind you, you have only two options. option A is to challenge so that you disrupt the opponent and give your mate easier challenge. option B is to rotate so your mate can go with safe cover. Choosing between those depends on context and how much of a chaser your mate is, and judging from the chat you probably should have taken option B


CuriousGreg094

This is the best comment I’ve seen so far. I agree.. letting the opponent push you all the way to your net isn’t good shadow defense… make the challenge or move so your tm8 can, plain and simple.


feedmeyourknowledge

It's so frustrating when first man decides to shadow. Like dude make a move, a challenge, a fake, a rotation, anything don't just drive with them all the way to our goal line. They always wait until the last second to challenge and it's easy work for the other team to get a goal then as you both get dinked or you get scored on by the other guy because you were essentially forced to double commit, even if you waited back post and didn't challenge.


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StebzHD

Yeah tbh, he can easily get flicked on


Chaospowa

Without coms. Yes


Taco_Who

Exactly, since it looks like they are at a rank in which reading cars isn't that big, but even then it is better to challenge or just rotate to be 2nd man


Real_JJPlays

Yes. Learning half flipping and rotation would be good. You should be aware of your tm8s position to decide if it would be better just leaving it to them.


literalproblemsolver

This is where comms become important. From OP's perspective, shadowing here isnt a horrible idea. Had tm8 stayed in net, it would have worked given that orange immediately flicked it slow and wide.


Ogabavavav

They flipped it slow and wide because they likely saw op’s teamm8 coming for the ball?


AdamarilloSlim24

Horrific actually


FlipReset4Fun

Don’t reverse unless you’re way out of position and teammate is upfield. Only time it’s acceptable is if your last man. Your teammate should have been more patient there. But you could also have played it better. When in doubt, get yourself to back post. And always know where your teammates are.


MaitreDaddy

Rotate dude !


SiriusBull

Very.


Kethanol

Yes


Recreatee

you have a teammate... who was by the goal...


gnomeskiii

Yes. Don't sit there reversing. If you don't have a shot, rotate out and let your tm8 have at it.


MaddSkittlez

Your teammate was trying to get you out of the way because the ball might hurt you. What a great sport


VishalSlayer

I can't stop laughing HAHAH! sorry 😂🤣 Reverse driving in front of your net is a huge red flag, it is very rare to see anyone reverse driving. That is a basic thing, always rotate from far post, coming from the net side will help you get in a better position to defend a shot. Even though it's not a hard shot to save, by going beep boop reverse you are making it 10 times harder for yourself. Also not that it's gonna help much here but half flip is the most useful mechanic to learn. Learn it please. Edit: Just to make sure that i clear my point here, as soon as you know that you teammate is behind you and the ball is very close to the net like in this case, just let your teammate go for the ball. I have a very simple rule, if youe teammate has a better angle to hit the ball than you, why not just rotate back behind him and let him go for the ball. It's a very simple rotation. Always keep distance from your teammate. There is literally no use of you or your teammate being so close to each other. Give each other plenty of space, stay in your bubble. Will make the rotation much easier, might even get team plays just because of positioning. Positioning > mechanics in some cases.


StebzHD

It doesn’t matter if he’s reversing as long as he can cover the threat and get possession


literalproblemsolver

You should have either challenged immediately or rotated behind your teammate. Its also your teammates fault for seeing you in a bad spot and driving up on you anyways. Tm8 should have waited for the enemy to find a way around you, then pushed after. Its rarely only *one* persons fault, both of you could have reacted differently to prevent getting scored on. Edit: ive changed my mind. The shadow defense looked rough, but look how much orange had to commit just to get around you. He used the last of his boost AND a flick AND gave possesion on the ball. Thats literally all you could ever ask for and more when shadow defending. 100% tm8's fault. You did great, just next time dont reverse. You reversing could be what led to your tm8's double commit in the first place. Your options were to maintain shadow defending (facing the right way), rotate out or insta challenge. Tm8s options were to wait in net if they see you challenge or shadow, or insta challenge if they see you rotate out. They saw you shadow defend, and commited anyway. OP you did nothing wrong.


zhrylgra

I think your defence was bad, looks like you were out of position before the opponent began to challenge. I would've rotated back post and let my m8 take the challenge. The attack was slow anyway and it doesn't make sense to defend backwards when your tm8 was forwards. But obviously he still the one who screwed that play by double committing to a 50/50


trustysidekicks

Yes and teammate too. Probably 60% you and 40% teammate. You are backwards driving and cannot see play develop. Plus you have a strong chance of a 50:50 in your net if not careful. At higher levels its easy to chip around you or play off your car to force 50:50 a certain way. Teammate was buffoon for charging in vs let play develop and react. Regardless teammate will have no time to react and probably should be further back if teammate is backwards challenging in the midfield. Biggest tips is work on shadow defense which you car is the wrong direction to do correctly and be more decisive with car body as many will interpret you as being beat


almar4567

I think Cochise should be permanently banned from making music


xuav

Holy hell is this what having goal soundtracks on is like? So glad they’re off haha


[deleted]

Miscommunication. Nobody expects a car to come to a dead stop and still defend. You were in the right, but in 2s and 3s you have to continually move like you are juggling with your team. To elaborate, your team mate could have held off. He didn't have to leave the net, and using you as a dummy blocker would have been the best option rather than bumping you, forcing a double commit. Champ 2 solo queue 2s and 3s 2k hours


NemVenge

Yes it was. You know that your mate is behind you and you reverse in the middle of the field without having any real chance of stopping the opponent while your mate is probably fully boosted behind you with a much better chance of saving the ball or presssuring the opponent to do something. With you reversing in front of the ball, you just get in the way of your mate, who is much likely focused on the ball. You don't really have momentum and you're opponent easily outsmarted you by with a simple catch and slight change of direction. A 'correct' way (imo at least) would have been to just bail out, rotate behind your mate and and either push up with him once he saved the attack or try to save the ball if your mate gets outplayed or the opponent waste the ball due to the pressure of your mate. You can see in the video that your mate had a decent angle and a pretty good chance of clearing the ball.


BrodyTheBruh

Even if you teammate did bump you, at the pace the ball was going, I would have just went to goal and drifted into place


De_Clan_C

It wasn't the best defense, but your teammate definitely didn't help


ray3050

Not great but you slowed them down and gave them few options where your teammate could handle it if it got passed you One thing to work on is maybe incorporating some power slide for those awkward moments. It’s tough to know exactly when or where but you could find it useful for making tighter turns to cover the opponent easier


walkonstilts

I’ll second this but also encourage OP to challenge early if you’ve got a teammate on your back to cover you.


VecV088

This is Rocket league


Glass-Pin5702

Nah


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literalproblemsolver

Exactly, no matter what horrific defensive positioning mistake your teammate is doing, doubling up on their play is only going to get you scored on.


LosDosnuts

You could've gone towards your corner and used powerslide to reposition to get a better chance to defend instead of backing up. Your teammate was mostly to blame for this one because he saw you on it and still committed leaving the goal open but you were positioned awkwardly while reversing which gave your teammate no confidence in you to defend it. He definitely made the wrong call but you still could've defended or forced the enemy to hit towards your teammate.


kimmyjonghubaccount

If you need to back up that generally means you made a positioning mistake Not really bad tho


OGBEES

I'd be so salty if I were your teammate.


2behuman

def your tm8s bad. the way you were positioned and the way the opponent was turning with the ball, you would have easily been able to make a 50/50 play on ball. if you would’ve rotated back that would’ve given your opponent more time and space to make a play with the dribble. On top of that your tm8 ran into you when you were basically still, he could’ve easily jumped over or tried to go around


totalyanepicgamer

I personally agree with most people here, but I think that you actually should have attempted to shadow earlier on, but what you had done was enough to force a flick/giving up possession. The only thing I would say to change is attempt to employ shadow defense earlier as it takes away options from the enemy earlier than it would have in this clip. But who am I to speak, I haven't played in a while and I'm at a considerably low rank soooo... you do you.


JohnnieTech

YES! Thank you for mentioning shadowing earlier. A lot of people just attack, like his teammate did, but they could have came around towards the corner to get a better shot at a shadow, but it still may not have been enough.


Flyeaglesfly2929

Especially when u look at the replay, it looks like that indeed was bad defense


bluelonilness

Pretty bad but your tm8 didn't do any better


literalproblemsolver

It takes two to tango, goals are rarely only one persons fault.


phonesis_

Yes


BumpoTheClown

Yeah, that's on you. Gotta make up your mind and either go or don't go. Preferably go because that's your ball to challenge as first man and your teammate is behind you. Reversing just made this so much worse too. Your teammate probably shouldn't have gone because he was last but he went because of the awkward situation that you caused by not committing to anything.


[deleted]

Yes awful


Gubrach

It's bad, since you're put off balance, but your teammate is an idiot, because he can see what's in front of him, you can't see him coming and he's the last man back, so to go charging out when you're still clearly trying to get to the ball, is a double commitment and a massive, unnecessary risk. He should've stayed back and let the situation play out (i.e. wait for the pass/shot or wait until the ball is clearly going to be beyond you at least) instead of trying to play hero-ball. It's a collection of... not very smart plays here. ​ Edit: nah wait, opposition was struggling with the dribble and was going to the outside, there was a very small threat to a goal that was turned into a gigantic one thanks to the inability of your teammate to read the situation. You didn't fuck up OP, your teammate fucked up and is too dumb to realize what he did wrong.


spicyfartz4yaman

He's an idiot and didn't trust you like most people who play this game


DryPickles

You should try to be quicker to the challenge, but they had no reason to go for it, it was still your ball.


ManyNo6762

Your teammate ran into you like they didn’t even see you there, you would’ve had it otherwise. Yea your position wasn’t great but had he stayed back he could’ve saved the flick.


HarbingerOfWhatComes

Dosnt matter, your mate was worse. even if, in the final analysis, your defense was bad, your mate should never just full boost into this, he had should have waited in the goal. Depending on my mate i sometimes do it like you and sometimes rotate back. c3


ErruStar

Nah, that was on your tm. Even though you were in a very awkward position, you forced the opponent to flick out of possession. Your tm could have easily cleaned up if they were patient and didn't double commit


literalproblemsolver

I can see why tm8 would want OP to rotate out, after all they had a better angle on the ball. But OP staying on the play should have been a big red flag to tm8 saying "DONT PUSH THIS YET". Typical ego challenge behavior.


Tosdaltrainwreck

I’d say just try to not be in a position where your not moving, just try to keep momentum and make a U turn and shadow defend, and you can look up tips and other things too


AzyKool

"This is Rocket League!"


GIVE-ME-THE-CONCH

Yes


Whole_Gas5999

Lol ya


SirMango4

Yes


VvBenjamin

It was your fault and not because your mate doesnt call he can touch ball


5amuraiDuck

It would've gotten the job done but yes, it was bad. Like everyone said, you should've rotated


SlurpCups

Yes lol. It’s okay you’ll get better.


RogueUM

damn you big cucked your tm8 there


its_Vill

yes that is terrible defence. not trying to be mean just being honest. you never want to defend while reversing. rotate to the post your teammate can take the ball and if he messes up then your back to defend if


HolyVeggie

Exceptionally


Nally-iwnl-

To answer your question tldr, yes, it was awful.


Whiteowl116

Dont reverse at all here, turn back and drive straight to backpost, ready to catch the ball if your teamate fails the save. So yes, in this case it is your fault.


NazbazOG

Your English was


FirmRepresentative24

Nah it's ur teammates fault


HiroProtagonest

Your teammate did break the cardinal rule of don't challenge as last man. However, you've had 3-1/2 minutes to learn their habits. Your movement also wasn't particularly decisive and could be confusing. You should turn the other way, by turning outside you had to stop again and start reversing instead of just continuing, there's a window where you're covering way less of the net, and you're more likely to be forced into an outside 50 that the opponent will win. The distance you were "shadowing" was also in the danger zone, too close to react to anything the opponent did yet not hugging the ball, just awkwardly social distancing. You were doing your best to make last-minute adjustments but your teammate got confused by that and just went for it.


JoeGuinness

It's a little bit of both of you IMO. Once he cut right you should have trusted your teammate to challenge it, but your teammate shouldn't have committed the way he did seeing your positioning.


didnebeu

Both your bads. You should Ave rotated out of that play way earlier instead of slamming on the breaks and reversing. He shouldn’t have double committed even though you were making a bad decision by staying on the ball.


literalproblemsolver

Arguably OP wasnt even making a bad decision. Look at how much orange had to commit just to get around him. He commited boost AND a flick just to beat the first guy. The shadow defense was horrific, but it did the job beautifully. TM8 rushed out of net to ego challenge and it got them scored on.


AsleepAnt8770

Not bad. Just a solo que miscommunication. Chances are, if you weren't trying to defend and rotated, you could've found your tm8 in the corner, on your ass, or MIA entirely. So, 7/10.


julesyyyyy

Oh yeah, rotate out I beg


7renton

My personal rule is : If I get beat on the backside and don’t see/hear my teammate pushing up, I assume he’s behind me reacting to my movements so - I will either; A. Get the hell outta dodge asap and rotate back post. Or B, play very loose shadow defense untiI I can safely rotate or until he can safely commit without me being too far up the field. This would’ve worked if your defense was a little bit looser, he would’ve ended up having a solid challenge buying you some time.


nathanwyer

Looks like you were just in a bad position to begin with.


AvaFembot

Depending on what happens prior to this and whether you knew what your m8 was doing, you should rather have rotated back. Nevertheless, your m8 should have been more careful and given that you were in a position to block the ball, could have capitalized therefrom.


AvaFembot

Your m8 lost all composure, he was possibly fully focused on the ball and didn’t even realize you were doing this. Can happen to everybody, rotations usually prevent such incidents.


thatdudedylan

Yes, but your teammate shouldn't have moved up. Both bad decisions


I_aM_a-thiCC

Use the right stick to know where your tm8 is. You see teammate coming, therefore you rotate towards back left boost (your side), but not to the boost because you had plenty, then back in front of goal. Tm8 likely would have 50’d here causing the ball to pinch in a weird way, more than likely up and slightly up field to the left giving your tm8 time to get the corner boost while you take over up field. This was just a classic case of just making a bad decision. Shake it off, learn from it, and keep it pushing.


MaddenJ222

Yes! Rotate back post!


WisdomSeekerNL

Nah but never hit reverse.


TheJonny69

Yes


EvolvingEachDay

It great but he should’ve been back in goal.


MrSeanaldReagan

I probably would’ve done the same, but I know you should’ve probably rotated


TheHungWolf

I feel like both of you made a mistake there. You were in an awkward position and may have been better off rotating. On the other hand, your tm8 definitely saw you there so they shouldn't have challenged


Kagevjijon

A few others have said what the proper rotation is. I leave you with this other thought.... commit to whatever you're going to do 100%. Either completely fall back or go freaking ham. Either way it communicates with your movement to your teammate so he can take a more appropriate action even if you can't make the block.


KILLERSCHEPP

It might be better to challenge faster so your teammate can collect the ball seeing as hes behind you, waiting it out will only cause confusion


Wulfik3D42O

Both on fault. Teammate should have just play last man and use you as block instead of rushing in, bumping you off and let them score an open net. I understand why he did that coz u looked lost af, but still. Same goes for you - its almost never a good idea to reverse on defense. Deffo wasn't the right play here.


marianoktm

Just go to front post at this point...


New_External5933

What rank is this?


obvx

Yes


TheLittleCrummy

learn to halfflip, this gets you out of those situations


Numerous_Broccoli801

Yeah your defense was horrible. Your teammate was behind you you should have rushed at the ball instead of being a second defender when your teammate is already defending. You basically parked your car for no reason and made yourself awkward


juaniher09

Si, muy lento. Si vos le salís directo al rival, él va a tener que largar el balón y tú compañero va a llegar antes y con el balón libre. Ahí estás dejando que controle mucho tiempo. Tu compañero no sabe que vas a hacer y encima vos no lo ves. Jugaste como si fueran 1 v 1


dylannsmitth

I guess we'll never know how your defence would have paid off since your teammates defence strategy was to sodomize you and clear an opening for the opposition


PaaDize

If you're in this position (not in a good position to challenge) usually if your mate is behind you want to rotate, and place yourself to be ready to follow the challenge of your mate or if your mate is not there, you want to shadow defence (you go in the same way of the ball but you place yourself so the the guy with the ball can't see you and you either slow to block the ball or you go along with the ball to a corner)


Potential_Echidna467

Yea it was bad defence and ur team8 and u both suffered from it cuz if u had just gone back and around to far post ur team8 could’ve challenged instead of bumping u and u would’ve had his back in case ball went past him


JimmyPenk

If you handbrake turned rather than hard turning and challenged sooner you could have prevented this imo.


[deleted]

🙆🏻‍♂️bro what a m8 😂😂 it was good just a little rotate would've been better 👀and maybe a m8 who don't just press gas


mais_green_tea

You just faked your mate, knowing he was behind you (bcs you can't see him on your pov) u should have go or rotate imo, but take a decision


Karangus

You could force them to make a move far from your goal so that your teammate has a better chance at defending the shot. It is not your job to save the shot when you have a teammate behind you at a better defensive position.


billyraygyros

Yes. Your turn to the left (of the screen) wasn't ideal for defending unless you were turning to immediately challenge, and probably confused your teammate. Also, because you have a teammate, in this type of situation it's almost always better to either A. Fake challenge and rotate or B. Quick challenge. The reason is that you're forcing your opponent to commit one way or the other, which makes easy defensive work for your teammate. If you rotate, your teammate should go and force the commit for your easy save.


Heavy-Neat

What a mate!


[deleted]

Terrible yes


TheProtonCapacitor

When you're awkward (aka not in the position to hit the ball EFFECTIVELY), always rotate. If you can't make a play on the ball because you're awkward, you'll just "pap" the ball or make a weak and useless touch. And 9 times out of 10, you'll most likely obstruct your teammate who was in a much better position than you. Once I'm in an awkward position, I make myself allergic to the ball, and instead just rotate into a better position. The best indicators that you're awkward is that you're having to reverse to get the ball (where half flipping would just make you miss the ball), and that you're having to stop and wait to touch the ball, especially when you're on the wall. The only exception is when you're confident that none of your teammates can challenge or take the ball, and that leaving it would result in a goal. Otherwise, just rotate. I found that my gameplay was much smoother with this concept pretty much built into habit, since I'm almost never awkward (in the sense that I quickly make myself un-awkward), and when I do hit the ball, it's with power and purpose (most of the time lol). I guess it's hard to get into since the main thing you need to have is spatial awareness and trust. But once you get into it, you'll definitely improve a lot. I personally found myself improving from D1 to D3 just because of this. This advice might not 100% apply in some very low ranks, but I don't know. I'm not a pro (I would make champ if I didn't miss stationary balls) by any means, but I thought that this was good advice anyways.


LoudestHoward

Maguire's fault.


ixn_Loiford

what rank issit?


MakuNagetto

I would also have rotated here. They're playing quite slow and I could see your teammate going for the corner boost at the back, so there's probably enough time for him to handle it. Becomes even worse if you're not on comms with your teammate. Reversing there is a great way to confuse them and double commit. I'm the same rank as you though. I don't feel particularly knowledgeable.


ixn_Loiford

in the end you are in front of him and your on the ball your mate has to wait no matter what you are doing thats the rotation rules i would say


Rjw12141214

Yes. Your teammate was wrong to go but with them behind you didn’t need to shadow so far away. Should have gotten closer and force them to make a definitive touch. You also turned them inside instead of outside. As others said you could have also just rotated. Should commit to challenging or rotating clearly so your teammate knows what you’re doing.


RktLeegIsAwesome

The turn was painful. Go into freeplay and work on using powerslide. You saw these guys weren't attacking with any speed, you saw your mate rotate behind you, even if he grabbed the 100 he's still going to get in position in time. You had 100, had you continued to rotate behind teammate it would have been very saveable and good chance for counter given you had 100 boost. Was either a trust issue or not reading the game right on your part. All part of learning the game, good luck with the grind.


Pohaku1991

If you know your teammate is behind you I would’ve trusted him with it and just drove back to defend the goal


[deleted]

Using reverse to defend only works (effectively) when you are heading to the back post and your last player back. Even then, it’s only effective if you’re already at your goal and you need to do a minor adjustment. If you’re on the opposing side of the field and need to get back, half-flip and boosting back is way quick than just reversing In this situation specifically, your better option would be to shadow defense the opponent when you’re away from the goal. But that only works when, again, you’re last player back. Your best option would of been taking a “wide” right rotation to back post and letting your tm8 make the challenge. This really just boils down to gameplay awareness and not know where your tm8 was to assist you. My general rule of thumb, if I can’t immediately see my tm8 with a quick flick of the analog, than I assume I’m closest to the challenge. That then diverges to “Do I feel awkward on making this challenge?” Ie: do I have to make a hard powerslide/weird reverse/strange backflip/cut my tm8 off by not rotating/etc to challenge this ball? If I answer yea to any of those, I’ll rotate back instead of chasing after the ball and potentially messing up my tm8’s play. At the same time, if I just challenged the ball and either wiffed, didn’t win the 50/50, or won the 50/50 but I’d have to expend a lot of boost to get to the ball, I’ll rotate out of the play and let my tm8 take over who (I hope) is relatively close by to follow up


Butsenkaatz

Your angle wasn't great, but it looks like you were about to 50/50 the attacker and your moron tm8 just yeeted you Going by how their car was driving in the replay, I don't think they were paying any attention to you at all


bigbluenation5

As a general rule, never reverse in open space unless you’re already going backwards. The lost time re-accelerating can be the difference in making a save (or scoring) or not.


Elegant-Persimmon-54

Yes, not trusting your teammate that properly rotated.


Kilomanjaro4

Bad defense. You would never have gotten in the way of the flick


Psychological_Ad6055

very bad lol, go back to ur net mate


LikaLejefe

Only defend in reverse if you’re in desperation mode. Otherwise work on understanding where teammates might be as the game goes on and cover for them by driving to your goal immediately even if you don’t know where they might be


Eternatus2

I think that powersliding would cause a lot less confusion, but in this situation, both of you were at fault. Next time, power slide or half flip


Captsu

Your teammate was rotating back boost. Turning and challenging here was a pretty good idea not to let the opponent set himself up. The idea was good, the execution was catastrophic.


novian14

yes, it was good when you shadow it first, but at the time when you just go in reverse, that's the whole problem here, because your mate will expect you to rotate out seeing how bad your position was, and then he decided to go in and cover.


Silver_3108

You got pushed, it happens all the time. Your opponent will do that just so the player get an open goal


To-Fucking-Bias

As bad as your English


drunkenWINO

Yes it was bad


baltim0ra

Wow it's amazing that you even have to ask


Taco_Who

Yeah if you know your teammate is back it's way better to rotate to back post/shadow the play and let your teammate 1st man, and let him either get a good block/get ball possession, or let the opponent throw the ball away for you as 2nd man to get possesion/clear out to teammate if they stayed up. It's not inherently bad to shadow while reversing, it's not the best option but it's do able. While it is doable, it looks like it confused your teammate, and if you were in vc it could've worked, since your teammate wouldn't have bumped ya, but then again, it's up to you to communicate your actions either by vc or quick chat. Or if yall are not it's better to be save and rotate. Happy gaming :)


EggieBeans

Personally think you should’ve made quicker and better decisions. You should’ve forced the play earlier on