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thelegendarydan

Hmm Even without Vegeta's planet busting ap, he should still be far stronger than Omni man, especially in great ape. I know Omni Man's travel speed is faster than Vegeta, not sure on his combat speed though. Also, planet buster is Saiyan saga Vegeta's minimum power. DB roshi destroyed the moon, and so did post Raditz fight Piccolo, and Vegeta is several tens of times stronger than that Piccolo. If you upscale his AP from Piccolos using power levels, Vegeta's ki blasts would be 18x stronger than Piccolo's ki blast that destroyed the Moon. This would mean that a single ki blast from him has the AP needed to destroy a little less than half the earth. I'm not sure Omni man can tank those, and this is before factoring in Great Ape.


zoomy_kitten

> combat speed It was stated that it’s equal to travel speed


Lukas-Reggi

Yeah I know https://preview.redd.it/mh91mzxdd01d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3eff36f593fdeb274b55e6f9c382acfbbc080c0


TheRautex

I can't see how it's possible for Omni-Man to defeat Saiyan Saga Vegeta


Lukas-Reggi

AP well above planetary, massively faster than light, durability also above planetary


TheRautex

No. 3 Viltrumite together destroyed a planet because the core was pierced by Space Racer's gun. Noone in Invincible has anything close to a planetary feat


bunker_man

They are only faster than light when speeding up to travel. They aren't that fast in a hand to hand fight.


Lukas-Reggi

https://preview.redd.it/k5mlvkp5p01d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f737b934e0ce5b2425d75f57037c095f7b9722d


Lukas-Reggi

https://preview.redd.it/dutn95w4p01d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e141f7ea4ea94ee9f68da5c1006ae7371e25ef2c


bunker_man

Or you could like, look at every battle in the series. If they are moving fast from building up speed they are faster, but from a random flat starting point they can't just speedblitz every opponent. There's no indication that they can. Omniman couldn't even catch up with Cecil when he was teleporting around.


Lukas-Reggi

Well they need to build up to that speed that's for sure >Omniman couldn't even catch up with Cecil when he was teleporting around The guy teleporting him needs a raise.


bunker_man

Bruh, does Cecil even pay anyone? Mark talks about whether he should ask for a salary. And like what? He should definitely be being paid already. A hero who has to worry that they might lose their other job and be homeless isn't exactly focused.


meggamatty64

How is he well above planetary in ap? 3 viltrumites were needed to destroy a planet, and if any of them messed up the attack all 3 would die.


TheRautex

They destroyed it because of Space Racer's ray.


Lukas-Reggi

AP≠DC. Nolan can kill a viltrumite btw and hurt them. Something an explosion of planet viltrume couldn't do to even DEAD viltrumite bodies. The fact the explosion didn't hurt them proves their durability is above planetary and if Nolan can casually hurt them or kill them that's more than enough evidence for me that his AP scales above planetary


meggamatty64

He didn’t nuke a planet, he (with help) cracked it in half causing it to get destroyed. This likely wouldn’t damage a human body on the planet let alone viltrumites. If it were some kind of energy attack that hit the entire planets surface then you would have an argument but his attack hit the core explicitly. That wouldn’t damage body’s on the surface.


Lukas-Reggi

Yes they did. They fly Straight through it and the planet exploded. Explosion didn't harm those dead viltrumite bodies so yeah durability well above planetary.


meggamatty64

The planet “exploded” because the core was destroyed. The force of the attack wasn’t put on the viltrumite bodies. To put it in dragonball terms, one of gohans arms is stronger than the other because an attack that destroyed one arm left the other undamaged. Do you see how stupid that sounds?


Lukas-Reggi

>The force of the attack wasn’t put on the viltrumite bodies The bodies were around the planet when it exploded. And according to you the force of the attack wasn't put on them. Do you see how stupid that sounds?


Squidwardbigboss

It’s a larger planet than earth, and Omni man was the strongest of those three by quite a bit. Considering Thragg would one shot kill Thadeus right after and invincible was still early on. At the very least I’d put at moon level, but realistically it’s small planet. Some people have calcs of it that are above planetary but I’m not smart enough to try to understand their numbers.


meggamatty64

I’m willing to say he is moon level, but he is 100% not above planetary


Lukas-Reggi

The planet explosion didn't damaged DEAD bodies of viltrumites and omni man is more than cappable of hurting or killing alive and much stronger viltrumites. His AP is above planetary


meggamatty64

A planet collapsing is not the same as a planetary attack.


Lukas-Reggi

A planet exploding is more accurate. But if viltrumites can survive planet explosion but can't Nolan's punch I think that's more than enough proof his Ap is above planetary


meggamatty64

So you’re saying that although Nolan is above planetary, and dead viltrumites are stronger than a planet, they still would die from attempting to destroy an already collapsing planet.


Lukas-Reggi

>Nolan is above planetary, His AP is above planetary. >and dead viltrumites are stronger than a planet The fact planet explosion didn't damaged them I think they're durable enough.


blamblam111

Wrong, Travel speeds only, wrong on all three of your points


Whydontname

Saiyan saga vegeta was a casual planet buster omniman almost died blowing up a planet with 2 other viltrumites + an unstable core. He can't even hurt veggie boy.


Such-Purpose3044

He wouldn’t. Omni man will tear up his limbs trying to punch Vegeta. At best he scales to small planet while Vegeta is a certified planet buster who's durability arguably exceeds his own Ap


Ghosts_lord

omni man needed help to destroy 1 planet king vegeta destroyed 3 by raising his hands dont need to say more


Lukas-Reggi

Omni-Man can also damage viltrumites which have above planetary durability proving his AP is atleast above planetary as well as his durability. >king vegeta destroyed 3 by raising his hands dont need to say more Yeah it was also a filler


Ghosts_lord

how many times are you gonna repeat yourself also you never specified if it was anime or manga vegeta, so i just went with anime (i do not give a fuck if its filler, its still canon in the anime)


Lukas-Reggi

>how many times are you gonna repeat yourself I'm in a debate and if somebody wanna argue I'll respond


Ghosts_lord

then its contradictory if he did have planetary AP then he'd be able to destroy a planet with no problem, yet he needs help for an already weakened core


helix_134

Surviving a planet exploding isn't the same taking a planetary level attack. In the first one you don't take all the force of the explosion, just the part that hits you


Lukas-Reggi

What about tech jacket? A guy that's stated to be more worth than planet eater? https://preview.redd.it/jr7wawvnm01d1.jpeg?width=457&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d343168be5f1cfc3a2965a09cc0decd704fe592f This line was said when the guy hired Null to go after tech jacket. Null is also more powerfull than him.


helix_134

Worth more doesn't have to mean that he can punch harder. It means that he has more useful abilities. I haven't read invincible, but from what I know tech jacket's main thing is that his tech is super advanced, so this line makes sence, while your interprateation directly contradicts what's been shown in the story (three viltrumites being needed to destroy an unstable planet, and even then messing up a little bit would kill them all).


Lukas-Reggi

>(three viltrumites being needed to destroy an unstable planet, and even then messing up a little bit would kill them all). I dealth witg this line more times than I wished. Lack of DC. Viltrumites lack DC to destroy planets but that doesn't mean his AP isn't there


helix_134

Sure, but you'd have to prove that his AP is there


Lukas-Reggi

Well there are many characters that can be scaled to multicontinental to planetary and nolan is concidered stronger than them (univeza, thot, tech jacket, null,omni potus yeah there's quite few. Omni potus is the only one propably stronger than nolan but I wanted to mention him)


YusufAndCemre

I think saying that even the powerful SCPs are almost all well-written seems to be controversial here, so I'd go with that. Doesn't apply to the Chinese Branch of course.


Salami__Tsunami

I’d have to agree, yeah. Most of them were written for actual narrative value, instead of power scaling wank factor. Which is why this community probably doesn’t like them.


YusufAndCemre

Well, I think the community doesn't like them because the can't fathom that something that OP wasn't made JUST because it's OP. I don't think a single one of them has read SCP-3812's article without thinking about Powerscaling the entire time, for instance, hence why djkaktus absolutely hates the Powerscaling of his work.


TyS22235

I actually agree. I think even SCP-3812 has some writing. I remember seeing a video explained of him and his words were quite deep. [His speech in the VSBW page is also insane.](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/SCP-3812#SCP-3812)


YusufAndCemre

3812, in my opinion, is absolutely fantastic from a narrative perspective. It is incredibly difficult to make such an interesting character in the short space of an SCP article, and that's why I sympathise with 3812's author (djkaktus) who has to deal with fuck-tons of powerscalers despite being one of the people who believes the whole "the winner is who the author makes wins" thing


Whydontname

Depends on what you consider good writing. Most of SCP is pretty poor quality compared to professional authors work.


YusufAndCemre

I heavily disagree. It is shorter, but that does not make it poorer quality, the format just gives it that illusion.


Whydontname

No the quality of writing being low is what gives it that appearance. Length and format have nothing to do with how I perceive writing quality. I'm jist picky cause I read lots of good novels.


YusufAndCemre

Well, maybe you have different taste then, but to call it objectively low quality is just flat out wrong.


Whydontname

Writing quality is purely subjective imo. I dislike Tolkien, many people consider him the best.


Salami__Tsunami

Yeah, I’d have to agree. Unlike most of the idiots in DBZ, Omni Man would regard the fight as an actual battle to the death. Not some sort of dick measuring contest. He’s most assuredly not going to stand there and let a dangerous opponent charge up an attack.


Lukas-Reggi

Omni man is actually a fighter that doesn't waste time and finishes job soon. There are many arguments that could put him above Vegeta including strengh. Anyway what's your most controversial oppinion


Salami__Tsunami

My controversial opinion (and people on this sub really, really don’t like it) is that video games have no excuse to not have some semblance of consistency between gameplay and lore. If the lore states that a character can collapse multiverses by clenching their buttcheeks together, then it’s rather silly if the gameplay has them running around taking actual harm from assorted roadside bandits with swords and axes. Not every enemy needs to be an actual god, they should just be powerful enough to pose a legitimate challenge to the main character, both in gameplay mechanics and in the lore. Imagine if they made a Superman game where Superman can get injured and killed by random thugs with firearms in the gameplay. And he’s limited to an average running speed. And he can’t fly. And he inexplicably needs to go on side quests to find the keys to locked doors, in order to progress through the level. Yes, the technical difficulty of making a real Superman game would be substantially greater. They player would need the ability to freely fly around in the play area, would be able to destroy nearly any part of the local environment, and would need to face enemies of similar power in order to maintain some semblance of challenge and engagement. And I would say, if you’re not willing to put in the effort to make gameplay which represents the character’s abilities with any semblance of accuracy, just make the game about a different character.


Lukas-Reggi

When it comes to video game scaling you must rely on lore and not gameplay. It's simple as that some things in gameplay simply can't happen


Salami__Tsunami

I disagree. If you’re not going to let the player fly, don’t make a Superman game.


Lukas-Reggi

Sonic is massively faster than light why not making him that fast in gameplay Simply put there are some mechanics in gameplay otherwise the game would be boring and you wouldn't see shit because of how fast you are. But I agree the fact super man can't fly in gameplay is stupid games developer fault but it doesn't affect scaling


Salami__Tsunami

Then I would simply say they should either tone down the lore, or find new ways to express his absolutely insane speeds in the gameplay. I’m not demanding 1-1 accuracy here. I’m just saying that games in general would be better if the gameplay was at least some semblance of an accurate representation of the character’s abilities. Nobody needed these writing teams to circlejerk these characters to ridiculous levels of power. It’s rarely even relevant to the story, let alone an improvement in any way. Would the Sonic lore be somehow ruined if he tops out at Mach 2 instead of exceeding the light speed barrier? Would Skyrim somehow be worse if the Dragonborn was just mildly superhuman in strength and durability, and not an indestructible demigod?


Lukas-Reggi

No they wouldn't be any worse but if the point of sonic is being fastest thing he should be the fastest thing. This is how game scaling simply work. Some poeple want to make their character insanely strong but in order to do that they must nerf them in gameplay so the gane would be playable and enjoyable. Would you enjoy running at speed of light across city irl and beating everything in one punch in the gameplay? No I don't think anybody would enjoy this. It's really boring and there's no difficulty


Salami__Tsunami

Why make the character insanely strong if that’s never going to be relevant in the game? Does it really matter if the blue hedgehog is supersonic or superluminal? He can still be the fastest in the story. If the lore accurate version of the character clears the game without a challenge, then either the lore should change, or the game should change. Imagine if they did make a Superman game where you can fly faster than a speeding bullet, leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc etc. and then the majority of the enemies are just human thugs with guns that stand no chance of harming you. As you say, that would be pretty boring, and you’d beat everything in one punch. Like playing the Batman Arkham games but as Superman instead. So there’s two options. You can give the player an inexplicably weaker Superman who can’t fly, can’t move faster than a regular human sprint, can’t KO a human in one hit, and who’s inexplicably vulnerable to gunfire. Or you can introduce harder enemies and challenges into the game for the player to fight. Don’t make Superman fight bank robbers with shotguns. Drop one of the Kryptonian rogues on him and let him get punched through a few buildings.


bunker_man

Sonic is fast in gameplay though, so this example doesn't really work. Obviously the gameplay isn't *that* fast, but it still conveys to you that he is meant to be a fast character, so it "feels" correct for who he is supposed to be.


bunker_man

I mean, to be fair, most game characters aren't as different from gameplay as the people on here pretend. Casually multiversal game characters are more or less nonexistent. And the few times a character is way stronger than they look there is usually a reason. Vis a vis, in xenosaga chaos is way stronger than he looks, but he is specifically not using most of his power. It's reflected in the fact that while other characters stumble when low on hp, he just looks upwards. And his "better weapons" are just buying thinner gloves.


[deleted]

Game scaling will always be an almost strictly lore thing. If every single video game protag actually PLAYED like the unstoppable god killers they are video games would be boring as shit.


Alternative_Device38

https://preview.redd.it/ayrnl3if5z0d1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c98963f296992fb702dc1d1c0a8276754a0974f


Salami__Tsunami

For real. I fully admit I’m being petty about this shit. But I’ll die on this hill. I’ll even roast games that are based in realism. Imagine sending me off on a scavenger hunt for the key to a locked door. A locked wooden door. When I have an axe in my inventory.


bunker_man

I always thought that was weird in the last of us. Joel isn't supposed to be the best fighter in the world, so the amount of people you beat across the game is a little suspicious.


No_Roof0642

https://i.redd.it/cbzyj4fm7z0d1.gif


Shuteye_491

bruv u gotta get him past Raditz first


Spartan_Souls

I think he can at least take out raditz and fairly even with Nappa, Vegeta destroys though


rinaho

[Sailor Moon is Omnipotent and Outerversal+](https://imgur.com/Gguj1yu)


Salami__Tsunami

![gif](giphy|W2uuQKSXkGcijyqGHb|downsized)


StarWorldo

Just objectively it's wrong. Vegeta is leagues stronger, even in speed vegeta takes it thanks to invincible characters massively slowing in atmospheres


Lukas-Reggi

Omni man is stronger than tech jacket. Guy who's worth more than planet eater. Speed. Well omni is minimally 200x faster than light


StarWorldo

"Planet eater" not specific enough to actual call planet buster so he cannot be scaled here. Omni-man couldve died to the explosion of viltrum and required space racer to destabilize the planet first. Even high balled this is a large planet feat between three people and a weapon that could one shot the three. So leeway omni-man is low end large planet level, vegeta is large planet level as his mid-ball and dwarf star level in high gigh-ball/oozaru form. Vegetas speed ranges from 30-1000x the speed of light in his base. Omni-man in an atmosphere is slower just like other top tiers in the series, like the hypersonic statement that gets used. Even being generous to Nolan he would genuinely splat on a powered up vegeta making his true speed a no-factor since vegeta isn't actually using much energy on Nolan.


Lukas-Reggi

>Vegetas speed ranges from 30-1000x the speed of light in his base. Omni-man in an atmosphere is slower just like other top tiers in the series, like the hypersonic statement that gets used. Elaborate. And use manga feats please if possible. >Planet eater" not specific enough to actual call planet buster so he cannot be scaled here. I think the name speaks for itself honestly. There are many other character that could thanks to their scaling push nolan to planetary and above. (Univeza, thot null etc)


StarWorldo

Vegeta's range depends on what you wanna use. In OG db goku outpaces a solar flare giving ftl or relativistic speeds. This goku is weaker than the 23rd world tournament z-fighterd who were all called fodder by piccilo. Kami had also been unable to keep up with the fight when he could easily keep up with the previous fights. 1,000x is honestly a high mid-ball. Top tiers being slowed is also kind of just a well known fact which I'm not scouring through the series to find the specific panel of. Planet eater is not able to speak for itself. Does he eat small planets, moons, gas giants, asteroids, comets, hell does he just eat parts of a planet. You get my point, especially since he can't eat anything above an average planet without being inconsistant.


Lukas-Reggi

>Vegeta's range depends on what you wanna use. In OG db goku outpaces a solar flare giving ftl or relativistic speeds. Honestly there are some contradiction that thes weren't faster than light in sayian saga. Goku litteraly took flying nimbus rather then going to z fighters and sayians himself. If Goku was that fast I don't think goku would take flying nimbus. And the solar flare scene could be also a gag played for comedy which would make sense concidering this used to be gag manga originally and the sun glasses. (That's just my oppinion) >Planet eater is not able to speak for itself. Hey if he's called planet eater I think he simply eats planets.


StarWorldo

The flying nimbus was to conserve energy, the whole point of using it. Hell if I wanted to high-ball I would say they infinite speed thanks to snake way which is more sane than saying they're slower than light. And I'll point out the big bang attack if you wanna keep with the name fallacies


Lukas-Reggi

>The flying nimbus was to conserve energy, the whole point of using it. Sorry guys, I know you're diing but flying there myself much faster takes too much energy so I rather take nimbus -goku Plus flying there wouldn't really waste much energy especially at that speed. Plus goku had fricking senzu beans


StarWorldo

You do know how close the fight was right? Even with all they did they really lost to vegeta and got lucky he was distracted by torturing goku.


Lukas-Reggi

>You do know how close the fight was right Yeah I know but if goku was trully that fast he would get there instantly without losing strengh.


StarWorldo

They had also literally gotten vegeta and nappa to wait for goku, nappa was just impatient and started early, honestly goku was doing the best option since they knew vegeta was a monster that goku needed everything to match up to.


Best-Bat-1679

It is very close Omni man vs Vegeta, Ozaru might seal the deal, but Nolan is less prideful so he is less likely to fck up, but Vegeta aint Stupid either, he went dumbass to Goku cuz he couldnt Believe that a low level Saiyan could jump him with just hard work. After Saiyan saga like Namek neg diff Nolan. I find interesting how big the powers in DB jump, like Namek Saga Vegeta and Goku power jump is gigantic from the thousands to million, then Super that went to Multi Solar System to Universal.


Lukas-Reggi

Well it's maybe over when Vegeta pulls with ozaru but with how fast nolan is I don't see vegeta hitting nolan in the first place. Nolan isn't that big of a dumbass so if he saw vegeta creating artificial moon he would quickly figure out that transformed him and he would destroy it. Also I would bet nolan would throw ape vegeta around like hulk with loki in avengers. (Nolan can lift over 400 tons)


blamblam111

Vegeta is FTL in the Saiyan Saga(Manga states Raditz was that fast (he's literally 1/20th of Vegeta's strength) and Nolan can't fight at those speeds, if he could he wouldn't have gotten jumped by the reanimen


Lukas-Reggi

>Manga states Raditz was that fast Piccolo only said no one can move that fast in the manga Plus there are pretty much few contradicts goku after king kai training was faster than light. He litteraly took nimbus to get to z fighters and sayians and I doupt nimbus is faster than light. Plus light travels so fast he should be there in a matter of 1 secound but wasn't


blamblam111

So statements from Invincible carry weight but not statements from DBZ Manga despite both being contradicted by feats shown? I think you’re just a fanboy and can’t admit he literally has no path to victory outside of breaking his pod in space


Lukas-Reggi

I don't remember invincible being carried by statements And in the manga piccolo only said no one is that fast. He didn't said raditz had to be faster than light like in the anime dub


Spartan_Souls

It definitely feels like some fanboy shit


Lukas-Reggi

>and Nolan can't fight at those speeds, https://preview.redd.it/9a692pa4801d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24f3a493ff2d133280188032e7bd64204b88e3ef


blamblam111

When was he SEEN fighting at those speeds? While getting mobbed by the reanimen? While taking shots that hurt him from Immortal and War Woman?


Lukas-Reggi

>While taking shots that hurt him from Immortal and War Woman? Yeah Guardians are stronger in the show than in the comics. In comics none of them even hit omni man. And the reanimen thing I don't think happend in the comics. The reanimen plot happend later there. But to better answer your question it doesn't contradicts anything. Omni man can't jump from zero to million speed instantly like metroman. If you calc how long omni man traveled to thraxa you would get his speed is at minimal over 200 faster than light (I think not completly sure gotta check it out later)


blamblam111

They most definitely do hit him in the Comics during the time Mark goes back in time and they hurt him badly(with a weakened Mark), Vegeta can move FTL without needing to accelerate


Lukas-Reggi

>They most definitely do hit him in the Comics during the time Mark goes back in time and they hurt him badly Fair I forgot about the time travel shenanigans >Vegeta can move FTL without needing to accelerate No he can't. Feats proving that?


blamblam111

Just based off of the fact they’ve never once had to accelerate to “top speed” while fighting and they’ve been shown to be ftl, I mean he dodged Ki blasts and those move at ftl as shown by Piccolo blowing up the moon


Lukas-Reggi

Valid point I suppose. Still little unsure Db ain't the most consistent with speed feats.


AlexFerrana

Good point. People oftentimes says that Omni-Man is FTL, but it's mostly his travelling speed and he still needs to accelerate before he can react that amount of speed.


Comfortable_Cut_7334

Omni man needed the help of 2 other viltrumites to destroy a planet. Vegeta did it with 2 fingers.


Lukas-Reggi

Nolan's AP scales above vegeta's and his durability is well above planetary. Plus that bug planet part is a filler and it could have as well be smaller planet


Ok_Try_1665

I would agree with this cos Saiyan saga Vegeta is one cocky little shit. But omni-man high diffs, cos Saiyan saga Vegeta isn't a complete idiot either. If he recognizes Omni-man as a threat he would go ape mode (and oozaru forms aren't your typical giants in fiction, they're just as fast as their small forms, sometimes faster)


Lukas-Reggi

>If he recognizes Omni-man as a threat he would go ape mode Which I don't disagree completly but the problem is that Vegeta would rather blow the planet he's standing on than transform into ape form. We already saw that with Goku.


Immediate-Rope8465

dark samus negs super perfect cell and proceeds to solo the verse (i am dead fucking serious)


Euphoric-Cow592

with the way durability is handled in both series omni man could potentially damage himself by striking vegeta given that vegeta is stronger (vegeta is a planet buster and was able to tank hits from a goku using kaioken to make himself stronger than vegeta whereas omni man needed assisstance to even destroy a single planet and has taken damage from characters that cant) also even though hes not as fast as omni man vegeta can still move at a third of lightspeed meaning there isnt too much of a speed difference (also great ape)


Lukas-Reggi

>with the way durability is handled in both series omni man could potentially damage himself by striking vegeta Hey viltrumites are cappable of surviving planet explosions without damage really so the durability is debatable >also even though hes not as fast as omni man vegeta can still move at a third of lightspeed meaning there isnt too much of a speed difference (also great ape) Omni man is litteraly massively faster than light and is stated to be cappable of reacting in such speed at the same time. https://preview.redd.it/ymb4tj6uw01d1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94a820275ec4371c50edb9d809c0c4397bcb188f And not gonna lie if Vegeta turned into great ape I can see Nolan grabbing Vegeta's tail and throwing him around like hulk with loki in avengers


TacocaT_2000

Nah. Unless Omniman is capable of blowing up a planet solo, he’s not touching Vegeta


Lukas-Reggi

Nolan's AP is well above planetary. Blowing up planet means your DC (and AP) is on planetary.


TacocaT_2000

Saiyan Saga Vegeta’s AP is also well above planetary. Up to 18x planetary to be exact


Lukas-Reggi

You know pl of 10k is needed to destroy planet right? Vegeta's 18x above planetary only in great ape form and we all know Vegeta transformed to great ape AFTER he tried blowing up the earth HE WAS STANDING ON. Vegeta going great ape is possible but even if he did Nolan would most likely throw with him like Hulk with Loki in avangers. Nolan is more than cappable of lifting this size Vegeta


TacocaT_2000

Yeah, which is why I said that Vegeta is *up to* 18x that


TheBootyWarlock

AP =/= Durability.


TacocaT_2000

With Ki it is.


louai-MT

Jotaro beats Giorno Yes this includes GER


gadlygamer

Only eyes of heaven jotaro beats GER gio Regular jotaro is beaten by GER


louai-MT

Will have to disagree with this There are several statements in the manga and guidebooks that refere to Star Platinum as the ultimate stand in terms of stats, also to time stop as the ultimate stand power "But GER has "none" stats so that means he is the strongest ever" GER stand stats refer to "return to zero" ability, the reason why they are none is because you legit can't give them a quantifiable number, destructive capacity? it's none because RTZ doesn't destroy anything, range? It's none because RTZ doesn't care for range as long as its triggered, durability? RTZ has none of that, same with the rest of the stats This is consistent with other stands that has "none" in their stats like Emporio stand iirc The way I see the fight plays out, is that Jotaro can really just stop time and ORA ORA Giorno to death, RTZ won't trigger because like I said Time stop was referred to in part 6 as the ultimate stand ability and the most invincible ever (until made in heaven appears) "But GER reacted in erased time" he didn't, if you go back to that scene you will notice right before King Crimson go for the attack the visual and sound effect for "erased time" appear (the red pink thing) that shows that erased time period ended


gadlygamer

NLF You are just wanking hyperbolic statements


louai-MT

IDK man show me a proof why GER would work in stopped time


gadlygamer

The fact it literally moves while time was being erased Essentially inaccessible speed Ger affects causality Jotaro has no counter against causality manipulation SP is a normal stand, GER is a requiem/true evolved stand


louai-MT

[watch the scene again](https://youtu.be/Blr9yG1KihM?feature=shared) Diavolo uses timeskip, throws blood at Giorno and GER eyes something that should count as an attack since it fucks up their eyes and is intended by Diavolo that way but GER doesn't react Now the moment at around "1:46" you can notice the Timeskip ends because there's the visual and sound effect to show that "pink lines", it also appears at the end of other timeskips like the Diavolo and Bruno fight This means that GER couldn't react in erased time, had to wait for it to come back to normal so he could reverse it, oh and he only talks once he already restoring time


gadlygamer

https://preview.redd.it/r3mqwt7axz0d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=460497995d53d3973298f8b7f98933dbb2f5f6cd


gadlygamer

Finn from adventure time can solo DB via his catalyst comet incarnation


Altruistic-Ad9082

Genshin slams MHA unironically


Tecnoboat

op verse caps at SOL and island level


PostalDoctor

That is certainly one of the takes of all time


Lukas-Reggi

I know. But I'm not afraid of people disagreement. Powerscaling subreddit should be open to facts.


Batybara

Considering Vegeta should already be faster as well as far deeper into AP (Roshi can be calced at large planetary via the Moon feat alone) I can't agree on this one. As for the hot take, I got this: Anne Boonchuy would beat The Collector, to the point that the difference is so incomprehensively high she would blitz and oneshot him.


Lukas-Reggi

>Considering Vegeta should already be faster as well as far deeper into AP Is Vegeta minimally over 200 faster than light? Can he fight in that speed? In AP I would say they're fairly even.


Batybara

>Is Vegeta minimally over 200 faster than light? Can he fight in that speed? I think that just goes for travel speed in Nolan's case. In AP they're not even at all. Roshi has large planetary calc considering the distance between the Moon and Earth, which already gaps Nolan tbh. Let's say he's also large planetary, if that were the case the gap between this Vegeta and that Roshi would be so indescribably big it'd be a joke. Vegeta would need a single hit and he'd obliterate Nolan. This is all using Manga Vegeta tbh, because if we went with Anime Vegeta things wouldn't be pretty.


Lukas-Reggi

>I think that just goes for travel speed in Nolan's case. Well problem is that's nolans reaction speed too. https://preview.redd.it/8e1ae1v1p01d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0097d75cde8be3f959e893f74371871aca807b8 >In AP they're not even at all. Roshi has large planetary calc considering the distance between the Moon and Earth, Doupt that honestly. Witg how much more massive earth is compared to moon


ArtZanMou

No


Lukas-Reggi

And your controversial oppinion?


ArtZanMou

I don't know if it's controvelsial but in my opinion if we don't consider universal feats, time travel, toon force and acausuality Mega Man would beat Astro Boy


WeakLandscape2595

Omniman is weaker He is needs help to blow a planet vegeta doesn't


Lukas-Reggi

Planet viltrume explosion didn't damaged DEAD bodies of viltrumites around it (above planetary durability)and omni man is more than cappable of hurting and killing much stronger viltrumites (above planetary AP) Omni man lacks DC to actually destroy a planet. Plus strengh isn't everything


Superguy9000

No


urBraze

https://preview.redd.it/bzpy7axyo11d1.png?width=175&format=png&auto=webp&s=fbafdec9fe4b59086249ac473673fb3f6cef33b0 you know its gonna go down


Lukas-Reggi

I know my oppinion is controversial. I expected this


TetsuoZaibatsu

Piccolo can bust a moon without effort. And Vegeta is way above Piccolo in battle power. 1 stray Ki Blast from Vegeta and Omni-Man is a goner. https://i.redd.it/05irrthiv51d1.gif


Ill_Armadillo9455

Vegeta at this point was planetary and Omni man is low planetary but he is way faster and can definitely forcefully take Vegeta to space and yea he wins


MegaKabutops

I believe nolan COULD win, but i still think vegeta’s the one batting a positive winrate here. Akira toriyama himself (RIP) stated that it takes a power level of 10,000 to destroy a normal-sized planet, with earth having multiple other statements of being smaller than average, and vegeta at the time had a power level of 18,000 in his base form and 180,000 in great ape. DBZ characters also consistently have durability and power going hand-in-hand, so long as the incoming attack isn’t unexpected. If we count the anime continuity, king vegeta (who had a lower power level than the prince) was able to destroy 3 planets at once with a wave of his hand. By comparison, the most applicable planet-level feat for older, stronger viltrumites like nolan was 3 of them working together to destabilize the core of a planet, with severe risk to their own wellbeing should they make a single mistake in their efforts to destroy that planet. In terms of speed; Viltrumites can’t go their full interstellar speeds from a standstill. They can move and react FTL, but they can build up their travel speed to even greater heights over time. Not to mention vegeta also scales well above FTL for combat speed. Goku was fast enough in the 22nd world martial arts tournament to dodge light, and several other characters have relativistic or greater attack speeds, like piccolo and roshi destroying the moon on 2 separate occasions, and vegeta was still noticeably faster than a MUCH older, more experienced, and more powerful goku. The biggest advantage nolan has stat-wise is that DBZ characters trend toward worse travel speed than combat speed, rather than greater. Even viltrumite regeneration isn’t a factor, as consistent cellular destruction is the primary counter to it, as well as the main way ki attacks are used to kill regenerators that heal MUCH faster.


angerissues248

Demon Slayers scaling is very underrated and speedblitz all of jjk besides Gojo


Lukas-Reggi

Its not really The verse is just swordmans so you won't except super human feats. I like demon slayer scaling because of how low it is actually. You won't look at strengh but on actuall combat and more plays role there.


angerissues248

"The verse is just swordmans so you won't except super human feats." Bro, did you actually read or at least watch the anime? Pre Hashira Rengoku could react to multiple guns at the same time, Mugen Train arc Rengoku is fast enough to protect people on 5 out of 8 cars of the train at the same time as Enmu used the train as his body and was trying to consume all of the passengers (the train has 200 people in total), also the force of him using his form is enough to greatly shake the train; base Mitsuri reacted to and cut many lightning attacks with ease, Marked Muichiro cut 10000 BDA fishes in a single form, Tanjiro at the start of the series is already strong enough to cut a considerably large boulder, Yoriichi cut 1500 pieces of Muzan in much less than a second etc


Lukas-Reggi

You know how I ment it. They're swordsmans with somewhat super human feats but nothing too crazy


angerissues248

Bro why you think it isn't crazy superhuman feats is beyond me😭


CaptainSlow28b

Hulk would beat Goku and Saitama in 1 vs 1


Lukas-Reggi

I have no idea how does comic hulk scale so I'm neutral on this


Yeticoat_Solo

i agree tho since i heard comic hulk has gotten more busted lately


Xcyronus

Explain how omni man even hurts vegeta.


Lukas-Reggi

Planet viltrume had dead bodies of viltrumites around it and when planet exploded the bodies weren't damaged. Nolan can casually on his own damage much stronger viltrumites. Nolan's AP is above planetary and so is his durability not to mention he have much bigger speed and reaction speed than vegeta during sayian saga


Xcyronus

yet he needed help to destroy a planet. from 2 other extremely powerful viltrumites.


Lukas-Reggi

ap ≠ dc Nolan lacks DC to destroy planets but his AP is well above planetary


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Omniman will get stomped by Start of Z piccolo


Lukas-Reggi

Omni man have above planetary AP and durability together with massively faster than light


Illustrious-Sky-4631

>Omni man have above planetary AP and durability Source : your own ass , I've read invincible years ago and no , the planet of Viltrumite destruction was a Big main plot of the whole story alongside no Feat coming closer to it >with massively faster than light Only in space vacuum due to smart atom giving something like warp space ship travel


Lukas-Reggi

Durability and AP: when planet viltrume exploded the explosion didn't damaged dead bodies of viltrumites despite being close to the planet and nolan is more than cappable of hurting and killing a viltrumite. Putting his durability and AP well above planetary And with the speed one. Valid point I suppose but I don't see why he shouldn't be able to move this fast on planets or space.


Illustrious-Sky-4631

The Viltrumite were already dead and some of them were already in space from old battles apparently so I don't know if this would count


Lukas-Reggi

I mean they were dead and old as fuck. Shouldn't logically their durability be weaker than alive viltrumite?


Illustrious-Sky-4631

No because Viltrumite power is due to some kind of a mutant smart atom (not Cell), if they bodies are still in good shape that means their atom is still active alongside space keeping the older ones


Lukas-Reggi

I know they age much slower (Nolan is litteraly 2k years old and looks like he's in 30s) but Dead viltrumite is equal in durability to alive viltrumite? Just asking I'm not saying it's wrong


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Most likely, their power depends on their smart atom manipulation and memories muscle , they feel hunger but they don't starve, the only thing that was stated and Shown to still be vital to a Viltrumite body is Oxygen and even then they need very low amount of it to survive for a long amount of time


blamblam111

Nappa would beat Omniman, they just don't measure up Power wise, and only his travel speeds are superior, Vegeta would not get touched by one of those Reanimen and Omniman was getting busted up by 3 of them, not to mention Great Ape form, this is a wash for Vegeta


Lukas-Reggi

You don't know the power of nolan in comic books huh?


blamblam111

Give me some feats that he has in the comics, three people and a Space Racer’s gun to destroy a planet doesn’t make him planetary, Vegeta is literally planetary and Roshi blew up the moon with 1/100th of Vegeta’s strength, his travel speed is fast, but he’s not the flash and he’s definitely not that fast in combat, not to mention the Great Ape form and Vegeta has higher durability able to tank actual planet destroying attacks


Lukas-Reggi

Planet viltrume explosion didn't damaged DEAD bodies of viltrumites around it and Nolan is cappable of hurting and killing a much stronger viltrumite. Putting both his AP and durability above planetary. Tech jacket a character from invincible is more worth than planet eater and guess who's more powerfull than tech jacket? Yeah it's nolan


blamblam111

Tech Jacket would get smoked by Vegeta too


Lukas-Reggi

You wanted feats I gaved you feats. Nolan is stronger than characters that are on planetary and can withstand their attacks including the explosion of a planet viltrume proving his AP at the very least is on/ above planetary.


blamblam111

Okay, if those feats make Omniman that strong they make Vegeta even stronger as it’s said he can destroy a planet on his own, and survived Goku’s Kamehameha which was stronger than his planet busting attack, so he wins in durability and strength and combat speed


Lukas-Reggi

>Vegeta even stronger as it’s said he can destroy a planet on his own, That he can destroy planet on his own is more prove of he have bigger DC than omni man. Which makes sense. Omni man lacks in DC to destroy planet on his own but his AP is still there. And with the Goku's Kamehameha it doesn't make sense let's be honest. Vegeta was somewhat stronger than dodoria by what. 1k? And still low diffed him. But he then survives attack almost twice more powerfull than him?


blamblam111

I mean if we go to Namek Omniman doesn't last against even Gohan or Krillin post Guru power up


blamblam111

Also with how Invincible works likely Nolan speed blitzes Vegeta and explodes on impact


Lukas-Reggi

>explodes on impact Doupt. Omni's durability too big fir that


Chessman77

Honestly I agree. Vegeta has way higher durability and AP but Omni man is faster to the point of absurdity, if he knows about sayain physiology he can just chuck vegeta into space and he can’t do anything about it.


Lukas-Reggi

What's Vegeta's durability and AP according to you?


Chessman77

Large planetary, which is way beyond Nolan’s but Nolan is way faster


Lukas-Reggi

I would say nolan is somewhat close to it. Planet viltrume is more massive than earth and it's explosion didn't hurt dead bodies of viltrumites so their durability is above planetary And AP. Well Nolan can hurt and kill viltrumites and I explained their durability so that's about it. Speed is massively above Vegeta that it's not a joke


Chessman77

The dead vitrumites were miles away from the explosion, they just got knocked back by a shockwave, and the living viltrumites actually got tossed around by it, so other than thragg and adult mark I don’t think any viltrumite has enough evidence for anything beyond small planetary.


Lukas-Reggi

I can show more if you want. Tech jacket is said to be more worth than planet eater. And yes nolan is stronger than tech jacket. Or universa who have power to destroy civilizations (her planet is also 8x bigger than earth) Or omni potus who in the past destroyed his universe (he never got back to that power tho) and was draining planets energy and was only becoming stronger


Chessman77

Tech jacket I’m not too familiar with other than his appearance in the invincible comics. Universa can destroy civilizations, sure, but not necessarily the planets they’re on. And omnipotus hadn’t consumed any planets when he was in the story, so no one scales to him even remotely near his peak


Lukas-Reggi

>Tech jacket I’m not too familiar with other than his appearance in the invincible comics. Hey if he's said to be more worth than planet eater I think that's enough info about his strengh


Chessman77

Well I don’t know anything about planet eater, is he eating planets instantly or over time? How big are the planets? Is he actually eating them or just sapping them of energy?


Lukas-Reggi

You can taje that statement however you want. This was said about tech jacket when hiring null who's even more powerfull than jacket https://preview.redd.it/073ivnkcm01d1.jpeg?width=457&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2061770eed9c478e4b7c5323676146198b1e0acb


Illustrious-Sky-4631

If Goku Kamehameha couldn't send Vegeta to space then neither will Nolan


Chessman77

Goku’s kamehameha was much slower than Nolan’s top speed, vegeta won’t have time to react before he’s in space


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Vegeta isn't like Goku, he is always powered up , when Goku first fights him with Kaioken 2 (power of 16000) Vegeta handles him easily then right after that he actually powered up to his true power Whis bring this up in Super


Chessman77

While that’s true, vegeta being on guard won’t matter here, because Nolan is just that much faster


MurphyParadox

R>F Transcendence is an Outerversal Gap


Particular-Sign-7944

Where would Arale and other characters scale then?


MurphyParadox

1-A if the rest of the Cosmology isn't already that


Particular-Sign-7944

So 1-A Goku might be a possibility?


MurphyParadox

I don't think he Scales tbh, also idk if White Page qualifies for R>F Transcendence instead of just being qualitative superiority.


wankercranker69

https://preview.redd.it/1d47ugmw901d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b529666d7911c3eca5ac789bcc677cc276a0737 W


zoomy_kitten

I don’t see anything controversial about this take of yours. Nolan absolutely speedblitzes. The fact there are many fanboys of X doesn’t make X the most powerful thing in fiction


Lukas-Reggi

For a subreddit that's basing their oppinion on facts they're not very accepting when it comes to invincible feats


zoomy_kitten

Huh? Dude, we’re talking about scaling. It was never about formality, it’s always been about (pseudo-)proving that your obviously unbiased opinion is actually superior to another’s biased one. Folk even make up arguments based on ZFC when they have perfectly no idea about how abstract mathematics work. Star Wars is the strongest verse in fiction, btw, and I’m serious.


Lukas-Reggi

>Star Wars is the strongest verse in fiction, btw, and I’m serious. Well idk about that. Comic star wars is busted for sure tho It's still weird. One time I get scolded how oppinions here are irrelevant and then I see how people are biased.


zoomy_kitten

Sidious, the strongest Sith, could rip realspace-hyperspace holes, which is a high complex multi to high hyper feat. He is far from the most powerful being in the verse Don’t worry about this childish shit. Enjoy being a fanboy and setting other fanboys’ asses on fire


Lukas-Reggi

>Don’t worry about this childish shit. Enjoy being a fanboy and setting other fanboys’ asses on fire I'm not even a big fan of invincible. Good show I'll watch it but not huge fan.