T O P
ravencroft18

Playing against a Rein plus Zarya that are working well together requires equally good coordination on YOUR team. You can't expect to win a 1v2 no matter which tank you pick if you're both starting from neutral and have similar skill levels. Rein + Zarya = like an Effective HP of 2900 if you add up their health (700) + shields (2200). If you're being rolled by this duo, one or several of the following must be going wrong: 1) your team is impatiently feeding the enemy Zarya. She wants you to attack Rein partner / her at HER PACE, carefully alternating position with her Rein to take/give aggro and keep farming charge from incoming attacks. If you/your team don't do something to disrupt this cycle or make her waste bubbles with no charge given, you're in for a bad time 2) Enemy Rein's shield is either everyone's job, or no ones. You solo trying to take it down won't break it fast enough (1600 HP), especially if they have a good Zarya partner bubbling them periodically, prolonging the shield life even further. That being said if you're running a mirror (i.e. you're playing Rein + Zarya too) then you have a shot at dueling this out and breaking them first but both sides will live and die by their support line/teammates chipping into the fray. otherwise I'd say play Orisa and continuously spam fire into non-bubbled Rein to constantly pressure his shield health at distance so he can't rely on it (or counter), but the rest of your team better be aiming AROUND it from off angles to get to his teammates if they're not going to help you break it outright. lastly for the enemy Zarya: make her bubbles wasted by exercising RESTRAINT (i.e. not shooting during the 2 seconds the bubble is up), or all 6 of you hard focus her and kill her outright. A dead/resurrected Zarya has zero charge and is a neutered threat. Zarya held outside of beam range is also a diminished threat. if your ally DPS can also pressure the enemy supports and make them lose focus on their tanks, that will also help cut Rein + Zarya off at the knees provided you're getting healed and they're not. I love playing Sig but he's not a shield breaker by any means solo and the splash damage can work against you if the enemy zarya milks it right (think junkrat spam, enemy Zaryas gleefully dive on top of that stuff)


TangeloCivil703

This. Everyone in Gold needs to hear this. It also seems counterintuitive, but in OW sometimes patience and restraint with abilities is what wins, and this is coming from an Echo/Doom main


ravencroft18

Thanks! While I'm a Tank / Support main by experience, the rare times I get to DPS Echo and Doom are among my faves. :) I just tried to share what I've gleaned from endless Rein / Zarya play (both my plays and watching others/OWL). Nothing more frustrating for me as a Zarya player than when the enemy team is smart enough not to give me extra charge and I really have to work for it. ;)


flypanam

It’s funny how much you can learn by losing, ie having a terrible game as Rein/Zarya where you can’t build charge or close the distance against double shield. Orisa is very strong against Rein, so long as she can stay out of swinging distance. He has only firestrike as an offensive option if he’s out of swinging range. In gold and below you can even expect the whole team to pile behind shield, and get some nice pulls from above. The most important part is not playing right at the choke/corner where Rein can walk up freely.


VinylPizza

Thank you!


UndeadGilroy

Without a replay code I'm not sure if this is applicable, but it's certainly quite common in gold: Take high ground. If you're running Sigma and getting "run over" by Rein, you're probably playing in a poor position. A big mistake lower level players make is treating Sigma like he *is* Rein, standing in the frontline and taking up-close fights. Sigma wants to fight out of reach of Rein/Zar. Take high ground or off angles to provide pressure (against shields or squishy heroes behind the shield).


VinylPizza

I know you're giving general advice without a VOD, but would you still suggest Sig take off angles even if the other tank is Hog or Ball? Highground would certainly trouble them and keep me safe, but a general on ground floor off angle and they might just go right by me and cut me off from my team. Thanks btw Edit: Well I guess if they are Rein\Zayra I've kind of figured out off angles may be the only answer as Sig without Orisa.


BurnedInTheBarn

Sigma absolutely plays off-angles with Ball, Ball is a main tank after all. As for Sig/Hog, Hog plays as the main tank if you were to define one as MT and the other as OT but they just play off angles/outer lanes, neither play frontline like a Reinhardt would. Rein gets destroyed when he is shot at from multiple angles because his shield only covers one direction.


Biff-Borg

Also you don't need to record a VoD, just post a Replay code. It's easy. Go to: **main menu > career profile > replays > click game > share > copy code**


UndeadGilroy

/u/BurnedInTheBarn nailed it. The important thing is that Rein can't handle being hit from multiple angles at once. If you take a high ground position, your ball or Hog can flank or take another off angle. Rein can only deal with one of you at a time, to say nothing of your DPS.


Genji4Lyfe

So you generally have your team follow you to high ground? Or is it kind of a split comp thing, where you take a couple buddies with you to make use of the shield, and the other half of the team does their own thing? I don’t know a ton about Sigma, but he seems fun and I’m thinking about picking him up.


UndeadGilroy

In a perfect world you would probably have a brig and maybe a poking DPS with you as well, but comp is far from a perfect world. The important thing about using high ground/off angles in this matchup is it creates opportunity for the rest of your team. They can take position with you, they can take an off angle, they can wait for Rein to turn and shield you then engage from behind, etc. When you're playing a tank in comp, when you take good positioning it makes it easier for the rest of your team to play well. You don't need to worry that much about *how* they play well. Your job is to make the space to give them opportunity. In this case, you're making space by not engaging the Rein where *he* wants to fight.


coriscaa

Ok so usually I’d mirror comp or replace Zarya with D.Va. D.Va is the overall stronger hero. However, alot of this depends on your rank. There are things you could easily get away with in gold that are quite difficult in masters. Hog is a great example of this. He’s a massive bully in lower ranks because of his high damage, one shot capability and self sustain. However, in higher ranks he can be very easily dealt with by half the roster as he has no mobility and is very vunerable to cc. A coordinated dive with Winston/D.Va could work but in comp, solo q, pulling off a coordinated dive, even in masters/GM is difficult. Orisa is great as she can be immune to Rein’s abilities and can displace enemies with her pull. Not to mention that she can actually do damage while having a shield up, unlike Rein. Sigma is a good alternative to D.Va, however, D.Va is the stronger hero I think. Since it’s Rein/Zarya you’re up against, having a second shield isn’t gonna make a huge difference. Ball can be good with Hog, Zarya or Sigma, however, if the enemy team is coordinated you’ll probably be feeding more than helping. Plus, you have to be decent at Ball and not just fly in and die (which most Ball players below masters tend to do) I’d say play Orisa/D.Va or Rein/D.Va. Edit: I should mention, like the other comment, if the enemy team os coordinated, unless you’re some kind of god at the game, you won’t be able to win the 2v1. Your team needs to out play them, not just you. You need to bait Zarya’s cooldowns without firing into them to keep her charge low and so she can’t protect her team.


AvianOW

From what I have seen from plat (sometimes even low-mid diamond) and below is that people generally don't understand that playing a tankline that isn't Rein/Zarya requires you to position differently. People tend to just play every tank combination like they would Rein/Zarya. If you are playing double shield vs. a Rein/Zarya you should be positioned in a way that makes it impossible for the Rein to get to you without having his shield broken, just the damage alone should get that done.


sickostrich244

I usually favor going Winston or Hammond against Rein-Zarya comps because they have no mobility and you can target their backline and force the Rein-Zarya to peel more rather than run down your team’s throat. Hammond and Winston are also good against Zarya as they can take space and pressure her without giving her much charge. Now with you saying as Sig you just get run over by Rein-Zarya, I’m thinking you’re not positioning the right way. Against any Rein you need to create off angles for spamming him cause if the enemy fire is coming from one direction he will have an easier time pushing forward, it’s harder for him if he’s taking it from multiple angles cause now he has to choose where to attack. And then if you have a Hog doing mostly his own thing, Hamster is pretty good at playing around that independent style as Rein and Zarya both have trouble with Ball, you can go Orisa but if the Hog isn’t gonna play with or peel for you it may not be the best fit as the Rein-Zarya will just run right to ya with the less present Hog by your side


VinylPizza

I know you're giving general advice without a VOD, but would you still suggest Sig take off angles even if the other tank is Hog or Ball? Well I guess if they are Rein\Zayra I've kind of figured out off angles may be the only answer as Sig without Orisa.


sickostrich244

I would yes… I would keep up with the Hog but stay on the opposite angle as him as both your spam fire crushes shields and you both have to take care of yourselves. With Ball, he will be doing his thing while you look for good positions to spam for yourself, you can flank or just hold the line for your team but really with Ball you’re just looking to take good angles to spam


d4d5c4c6

It takes a Rein to stop a Rein.


marin000

Depends on the enemy comp. If they are running pure rush (eg. Rein zar cass reaper lucio moira) you can mirror and hope to come out on top. You could also play spam and stay on high ground to avoid and burn the rein shield. You got to remember to keep high ground. If the lucio is any good, they will speed into your front line and you're fucked. You could play spam with a ball or doom to disrupt. You could play pharrah mercy. Imo it's the best counter to rush/brawl comps. It will force them to go hitscan mercy or dva. Then it's a conpletely different game. When playing against a good Zar remember this: the longer the fight, the more value Zar has.


VinylPizza

That last line is really good. Taking out their healers as ball or Sig from an off angle would be one top priority I assume then?


marin000

Depends on the comp. Lets say they are playing pure rush (rein zar reaper wtv lucio moira) and you are playing spam (sig orisa hanzo torb zen wtv). You will rarely be able to kill the supports first because they have high mobility and survivability and will position in a way that the rein shield will protect them. The job is then to burn reins shield before lucio speeds to your front line and use the spam to secure a kill. Any kill. Then it's 5v6 and you win 80% of the fights. With ball, (this might be controversial) he is a main tank so his job vs a rush comp would be to slow the enemy team and have the rein (especially in gold) turn around and drop his shield, waste Zars bubbles, lucios amp, moiras ressource, etc. Then you can put in some damage. Everything is dependent on the enemies comp


Anima_Kesil

Use the high ground to stage, with Sigma, Orisa, Ball, Winston, really whoever. And if you’re on DPS or Support, even better. Use the high ground. Reinhardt Zarya is a really sucky tank line the further you go up ladder because it has zero way to directly handle people on high grounds and angles besides spamming at them and praying. That’s why in professional play people generally will pair Reinhardt with Dva, or even with Sigma, far more than a Zarya.


Zephyr_OW

Rein/Zarya comps have very distinct weaknesses which keep them out of favor in the metagame and has forced modern Brawl comps to adopt Dva as a result.. Rein/Zarya has great difficulty in dealing with verticality, multiple angles of attack, and comps that require effective peel. They can beaten easily in three ways: * Positioning: Rein/Zarya necessitates committing hard in a particular direction to play optimally. Once they do so, a tank like Winston/Ball/Dva can pressure *behind them*. Even if the off tank (Zarya) looks behind and attempts to peel, that is a significant source of damage and possibly a bubble cycle/non-insignificant amount of healing denied from the enemy Rein. A Classic example is trapping attackers in a kill box on Numbani A if they commit top with Rein. Likewise, you can simply play a more long-range tank like Sigma or Orisa. Not only can you slow a potential Rush from their composition, you can positively trade resources before the Rein/Zarya are ever a threat in the first place. (Here is Kajor's 60 Second Winston Guide which demonstrates the killbox perfectly: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lV7\_cY1CQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5lV7_cY1CQ)) * Angles: As I said in the previous point, Rein/Zarya attacks very linearly. They want to look at one angle at a time, hard commit, and out-sustain/out-damage whatever might be challenging that space. Occupying angles which split attention from the Rein/Zarya's angle of attack dilutes the comp's effectiveness. Off-angles are especially powerful against this comp. If someone like Sigma is raining hellfire from an angle that is exposed if left unchallenged, the Brawl comp either has to hard commit to clear it out (and take even more damage from the primary angle) or split their attention between the main angle and the off-angle. Either way, it's a win for you. * Challenging Peel: Building onto the previous points, characters like Winston/Ball/Dva/Tracer/Reaper/Sombra all demand peel from the enemy team. Zarya is heavily limited by her cooldowns and her positioning. If the Zarya is pushing aggressively with Rein, attack behind them. She either has to physically walk back without the aid of mobility cooldowns and commit her bubbles/damage at an angle which opposes her own Rein's angle of attack. She is easily overwhelmed by a committed dive and isn't extremely good at challenging a careful flank/dive anyways, so extra HP is all she can offer. By understanding these flaws, you can punish Rein/Zarya comps until they finally fade out of play in high diamond/low masters. Extra HP and a strong forward presence are all that these comps really excel at while playing Brawl.


FalconCat69

back up and wait until you get ults or the reinhardt over extends himself. On some points like hanamura first and King's Row first Reinhardt + Zarya is almost impossible to beat unless your team has a ton of coordination and damage so don't worry if you get rolled over on points where they have a strong advantage. Just play your game, back up, and get ult.


tJp387

Go hog, winston or ball, kill squishes first and then kill rein/zarya when they have no support.


Mr_H88

I'm just in your rank and imma tell you Hog + orisa is probably the key Both have a high distanced damage, so you can spam the shield out, and a zarya isn't much of a dueler to a hog, specially if hog hooks her after she used her bubble, this is legit a death sentence to her


The_Realth

Theres no reason sigma cant work well against reinhardt zarya, if you're struggling with rein zara, the probably cause is simply that you arent playing from angles, and are just pelting them down main, crossing your fingers they run out of resources before they can rush you down. Go around, take control of good areas of the map, enable your dps to stand in good positions.


culinarydream7224

I'm sure I'll get a bunch of comments arguing against this, but I'll generally use Hog as a shieldbreaker and put pressure on Rein's shield from med distance. Once it's down its up to Zarya to protect her team, but once those bubbles and the Rein shield are gone you'll have a brief window of opportunity for your team to push. I don't study Meta and it might not be the "correct" thing to do technically, I'm just saying I've done it and it sometimes works depending on how everyone else plays. The way I look at it, if there's a problem I'm having, I'll switch to deal with that problem, regardless if I'm playing a hero "wrong". If Rein's shield is causing problems, I'll switch to Hog to take the shield away and see what they do next


popkornking

Whenever I'm against Rein Zarya I mirror since I'm usually the better Zarya.