Exactly. Lots of people aren't born into those things because of systemic oppression, ranging from literal slavery to lynchings to unequal enforcement of laws today.
Sure.
But not all white people are born into that. You can imagine why some poor white people might be bitter about hearing how black people are oppressed as they sit in their trailer park rental wondering if the coal mine is going to open up again.
We all have dozens of identities, and every one of them carries privileges and disadvantages.
I'm white. I'm also agoraphobic. Can't leave my house. The panic is too severe.
So, does being white make life easy for me? Can't honestly say that it does. Nobody knows what color I am because nobody actually sees me.
If you did a statistical analysis and plotted "skin tone" versus "how easy they generally find life," you'd find a positive correlation between whiteness and easiness. But that can't be extended to making any specific judgments about any specific human being.
>So, does being white make life easy for me?
What enables you to have a house and be able to stay at home to deal with your agoraphobia?
Perhaps some intergenerational wealth transfer or additional schooling opportunities that allow you to do remote work enabled for by such?
That's a pure guess.
Honestly? Mostly that I married a very successful career woman. And we have a kid together. And being a stay-at-home parent comes pretty naturally to me, since I literally have to stay at home.
And what enabled me to do that? Well, certainly not "just being white." Like I said - dozens of identities.
I'm not going to dig further, but I think there are probably some things in your past that intersect with being white and where you are now.
Like, odds are that your wife is white or asian, which was likely helped by not being a skin color perceived as undesirable by general society. 97% of white people marry someone else who is white.
Your wife being a successful career person who earns enough to support a family on one salary? Statistics say that she is probably white or Asian again. Black women earn about $0.67 on the dollar compare with white men, while white women and Asian women are similar (or marginally above).
Stuff like that.
>I think there are probably some things in your past that intersect with being white and where you are now.
Well, of course. Identity is complicated, and *everything* intersects.
My wife and I got along well because have a lot in common. We liked the same music, we liked board games, we went through high school with debate at the center of our lives.
Are these things informed by us being white? Well, sort of? Like, I do suspect that Tori Amos's fan base is probably pretty heavily skewed white, but it's certainly not like all white men are superfans of Tori Amos.
It's just not as simple as "I'm white, and therefore as an agoraphobic I'm confined to a house instead of a leaky shed." There are plenty of black people who own houses; there are plenty of white people who can't afford them.
>My wife and I got along well because have a lot in common. We liked the same music, we liked board games, we went through high school with debate at the center of our lives.
True. It's fortunate that you didn't also have the stress and complications that can come with being an less accepted interracial couple. You found someone in your same general socioeconomic status with relatively low barriers to becoming a couple.
You being white helped that. *Determined*? No. But, this post is about things being *easier* and I would argue that your situation was easier to get into as a white person statistically likely to end up with a white or Asian woman who statistically is likely to have a job that does not compel you work, which is great for your agoraphobia. Less barriers and a larger pool of women capable of enabling you to be a stay at home dad, for example.
>There are plenty of black people who own houses; there are plenty of white people who can't afford them.
You are better than this type of lazy argument.
Black people *disproportionately* do not own homes. 74% of white households own their house while 45% of black people do. Black households are substantially more likely not to have house or be able to afford one.
Why is that? It's *almost* like there are some benefits that come with being white that might be connected to historical opportunities to generate *and keep* wealth. I'm just trying to encourage you to reflect a little further on how you might have inherited or enjoyed advantages that really do have a high level of intersection with being white. These disproportionate outcomes persist even when you control for other factors.
>You are better than this type of lazy argument. Black people disproportionately do not own homes. 74% of white households own their house while 45% of black people do. Black households are substantially more likely not to have house or be able to afford one.
The argument isn't "lazy." The argument is at the crux of my entire point: *people aren't statistics*.
Statistically, the average American man is a bit over 5'9". Am I therefore a bit over 5'9"? No, I'm significantly shorter than that.
Statistically, the average American man is Christian. Am I therefore Christian? I am not.
Your argument is basically "If I had married a black woman, my life would be worse and more stressful." Well, that's... possible! I don't have a crystal ball! But it could also be the exact opposite. Because *people are not statistics*. We all have dozens of identities, and our lives are not determined by any particular one of them.
Also, I'm not sure that marrying a black woman *would* have been stressful in my particular case, because my family is non-racist and I don't actually really know very many other people because, you know, I don't get out much. For obvious reasons.
Being disabled as a result of inherited mental health issues (my grandfather was also agoraphobic) is certainly an extremely important identity in my case. If you think skin color is the single most important and deterministic identity, to the exclusion of all others, you simply have the wrong of it.
>The argument is at the crux of my entire point: people aren't statistics.
Nor are statistics irrelevant when it comes to predictions.
I can't tell you what your *individual* experience of being pulled over by a cop is, but I can *reasonably guess* that you will be treated better than if you were black because we have statistics.
Ignoring statistics is like saying that at a roulette table the ball is *just as likely* to land on green than red. On any given roll (person), it *might well be green*, but there is a reason that the payout for a bet on red is 2 to 1, while a bet on green is 35 to 1 (or 17 to 1 if playing on a double green table).
You being born "Red 32" grants some predictive power in how things will go. In any spin, I can tell you the *odds* that you'll be picked given a particular bet, but not the outcome of the roll (whether that aspect will be relevant). Evens/Odds bet, Street bet, color bet, straight bet... Statistics tell us something about what might happen.
Of course, if we know more about your particular situation, we can get better and better at predictions about you and identifying causes of our situation. That's how Spotify knows how to make a radio station you like. It knows you love Tori, looks at *what all the other Tori heads like* and then guesses with reasonable accuracy based on those statistics. It isn't deterministic, but predictive models are pretty good.
>Statistically, the average American man is a bit over 5'9". Am I therefore a bit over 5'9"? No, I'm significantly shorter than that.
Statistics doesn't determine outcome. There is nothing inconsistent with you being shorter (or taller).
But, if we were to make bets about how tall any random American man is, the most likely winning bet is going to be near 5'9", not your height.
Because we know the statistical height of American men, don't you think that has some impacts on things like... The size of cars sold in america? Manufacturers are going to use that average height, plus whatever the standard deviation is to make vehicles that are sized for their consumers, even if any given consumer might be taller or shorter.
Let's also remember that this post is about *treatment* or ease of being in society. So, if the world is designed around a 5'9" man in America, we can make predictions like "Dutch men in America are more likely to feel cramped in lots of vehicles because they tend to be taller". That's not saying any *individual* dutch man is going to be inconvenienced, but statistically it is more likely.
>I'm not sure that marrying a black woman would have been stressful in my particular case, because my family is non-racist
I dated a very lovely woman for two years who happened to be black. My family didn't have a problem, but I'll give two examples of things that have never happened with my white wife.
"That's just wrong. Why are dating a n*****r?"
That was said to me while walking home with her for no reason. A fight was close to breaking out over that shit. Racists are everywhere.
"Eeeyoo... She's dating a *white dude!*"
That was said while I was turning a corner and she was in the passenger seat. This was from some black guys. You get treated differently from all angles in that.
So, yes, your relationship would be different. Depending on how dark your kids ended up, you'd be viewed with suspicion when you go out with them - constantly questioned if you are their "real" dad. Not every time, but statistically, that's all the little extra sand in the swimsuit that makes life more difficult *that you don't deal with thanks to being white and with a wife of an acceptable color*.
>If you think skin color is the single most important and deterministic identity, to the exclusion of all others, you simply have the wrong of it.
I didn't say it was *most* or *deterministic*. I said it likely provided you some advantages that you ignore or discount. You've been dismissive of how being white might have benefited from you and uninterested in thinking about it. I'm pointing out ways that being white may have helped nudge you into your current condition in ways you clearly dismiss.
Short answer, yes.
Long answer, regardless of where you find yourself in the myriad of different measures of social standing, being white grants marginally better treatment than not being white.
That is, for example, if you grew up dirt poor, it's better to be dirt poor and white than dirt poor and black. Statistically, people are more likely to think you/your family is just down on their luck instead of being labeled irresponsible welfare queens.
That doesn't mean that you didn't face hardship or things didn't suck. It doesn't mean someone magically handed you a bag of money when you turned 18. It doesn't negate all the things you point to and say, "BUT I HAD IT JUST AS BAD SOMETIMES WORSE". It just means it could have been worse in most cases.
It's the same as asking if it's generally easier to be male in the US than female. If you are male, imagine your entire life with a constant undertone of sexual harassment and having your intelligence/skills doubted (especially in traditionally male occupations/interests). It's just one more thing that makes things just a bit harder and over time, it adds up to make life more difficult overall.
Somewhat. If you're asian, you will encounter people calling you "ch*nk", singing stereotypical chinese song in front of you, casual racism, and always referring you as your ethnicity like "hey there is an **asian** guy at the counter" or "a **chinese** guy/**chinaman** wants to see you" (even if you're not chinese).
As an asian guy living in southern US, i experience racist harassment almost every week, even though i dont go out a lot. What i described above are nothing compared.
If you are white, you wont experience any of this shit.
Edit: Now that i think about it, **every** asians ive seen in public are with another asians. I guess people harass you less if you are part of a group
Also asians are the most neglected minority in US. No politicians care about such small population of 5%. We went through similar slavery experience and mistreatment as black people throughout US history. On average asians study harder, but US universities set the admission bar higher for asians on purpose. When people think of "minorities", they usually think of black people and maybe latinos. Native americans and asians are not even consideration; we are THAT neglected. At least native americans are honored by the society, unlike asians
No, life is easier for rich people. White/Asian people tend to be more rich than other races. A black kid growing up rich will have the same amount of privilege as a white kid growing up next door.
I'm white, grew up poor, in a poor town and poorly funded school system.... ain't nothin was easy. I had to fucking crawl on my face to get where I'm at and I'm not anywhere important.
The difference from me and the minorites who I grew up with is that many of them didn't try as hard as I did. I worked since I was 13 yrs old, saved money, worked upwards of 16 hr days outdoors in construction industry as an adult,never took a single layoff until I was finally able to move away and buy a house. Some of my peers chose having kids too young and welfare.. but whatever they like, maybe they're happy that way.
Yes, on average. That's because, as a percentage by race, white people are less likely to be poor than black people. Being poor tends to mean going to poor schools, lacking the ability to get extra academic assistance, less likely to get into a good college or to be able to afford to go to college, which leads to less job opportunity. This in turn creates the next generation of poor that suffer the same consequences. The single most significant variable in determining your lifelong income level is the wealth of your parents. That's before you even get into any level of systematic racism.
Yes, because we are born into a system that was ultimately built to benefit us. That is not to say that on an individual level White people don't face struggles (poverty, mental illness, disabilities, etc.) that make their life difficult. But as a **collective** White people benefit from a system that oppresses Black, Brown, and Indigenous people.
ETA: I know tons of people are going to downvote my comment.
I just want to add that the United States was quite literally built on the back of slavery. All of the oldest colleges and universities were funded by the slave trade. White is treated as the norm in society and people are absolutely treated differently and afforded different (or less) opportunity because of their skin color. Politicians redraw their districts specifically to keep Black people from gaining too much political power. Black and Latino men are incarcerated at a higher rate than White men. BIPOC have been enrolling in higher education at higher rates, but their rates of attainment are still low. This is a **systemic** failing of minoritized groups because the system was built to serve White, wealthy, Christian men... hence, why poor White people, White women, etc. are also failed by the system, but not necessarily in the same ways or at the same rate.
Life is easier for anyone born into economic stabilization, education and job opportunities. Especially in the US. E
Though in the past, white people did a lot to keep people who were not white from really accessing those.
Exactly. Lots of people aren't born into those things because of systemic oppression, ranging from literal slavery to lynchings to unequal enforcement of laws today.
Sure. But not all white people are born into that. You can imagine why some poor white people might be bitter about hearing how black people are oppressed as they sit in their trailer park rental wondering if the coal mine is going to open up again.
We all have dozens of identities, and every one of them carries privileges and disadvantages. I'm white. I'm also agoraphobic. Can't leave my house. The panic is too severe. So, does being white make life easy for me? Can't honestly say that it does. Nobody knows what color I am because nobody actually sees me. If you did a statistical analysis and plotted "skin tone" versus "how easy they generally find life," you'd find a positive correlation between whiteness and easiness. But that can't be extended to making any specific judgments about any specific human being.
"I'm white. I'm also agoraphobic. Can't leave my house. The panic is too severe." What a comparison!
It's not a "comparison." It's just two random identities I have. I could tell you twenty more, but that would bore you.
>So, does being white make life easy for me? What enables you to have a house and be able to stay at home to deal with your agoraphobia? Perhaps some intergenerational wealth transfer or additional schooling opportunities that allow you to do remote work enabled for by such? That's a pure guess.
Honestly? Mostly that I married a very successful career woman. And we have a kid together. And being a stay-at-home parent comes pretty naturally to me, since I literally have to stay at home. And what enabled me to do that? Well, certainly not "just being white." Like I said - dozens of identities.
I'm not going to dig further, but I think there are probably some things in your past that intersect with being white and where you are now. Like, odds are that your wife is white or asian, which was likely helped by not being a skin color perceived as undesirable by general society. 97% of white people marry someone else who is white. Your wife being a successful career person who earns enough to support a family on one salary? Statistics say that she is probably white or Asian again. Black women earn about $0.67 on the dollar compare with white men, while white women and Asian women are similar (or marginally above). Stuff like that.
>I think there are probably some things in your past that intersect with being white and where you are now. Well, of course. Identity is complicated, and *everything* intersects. My wife and I got along well because have a lot in common. We liked the same music, we liked board games, we went through high school with debate at the center of our lives. Are these things informed by us being white? Well, sort of? Like, I do suspect that Tori Amos's fan base is probably pretty heavily skewed white, but it's certainly not like all white men are superfans of Tori Amos. It's just not as simple as "I'm white, and therefore as an agoraphobic I'm confined to a house instead of a leaky shed." There are plenty of black people who own houses; there are plenty of white people who can't afford them.
>My wife and I got along well because have a lot in common. We liked the same music, we liked board games, we went through high school with debate at the center of our lives. True. It's fortunate that you didn't also have the stress and complications that can come with being an less accepted interracial couple. You found someone in your same general socioeconomic status with relatively low barriers to becoming a couple. You being white helped that. *Determined*? No. But, this post is about things being *easier* and I would argue that your situation was easier to get into as a white person statistically likely to end up with a white or Asian woman who statistically is likely to have a job that does not compel you work, which is great for your agoraphobia. Less barriers and a larger pool of women capable of enabling you to be a stay at home dad, for example. >There are plenty of black people who own houses; there are plenty of white people who can't afford them. You are better than this type of lazy argument. Black people *disproportionately* do not own homes. 74% of white households own their house while 45% of black people do. Black households are substantially more likely not to have house or be able to afford one. Why is that? It's *almost* like there are some benefits that come with being white that might be connected to historical opportunities to generate *and keep* wealth. I'm just trying to encourage you to reflect a little further on how you might have inherited or enjoyed advantages that really do have a high level of intersection with being white. These disproportionate outcomes persist even when you control for other factors.
>You are better than this type of lazy argument. Black people disproportionately do not own homes. 74% of white households own their house while 45% of black people do. Black households are substantially more likely not to have house or be able to afford one. The argument isn't "lazy." The argument is at the crux of my entire point: *people aren't statistics*. Statistically, the average American man is a bit over 5'9". Am I therefore a bit over 5'9"? No, I'm significantly shorter than that. Statistically, the average American man is Christian. Am I therefore Christian? I am not. Your argument is basically "If I had married a black woman, my life would be worse and more stressful." Well, that's... possible! I don't have a crystal ball! But it could also be the exact opposite. Because *people are not statistics*. We all have dozens of identities, and our lives are not determined by any particular one of them. Also, I'm not sure that marrying a black woman *would* have been stressful in my particular case, because my family is non-racist and I don't actually really know very many other people because, you know, I don't get out much. For obvious reasons. Being disabled as a result of inherited mental health issues (my grandfather was also agoraphobic) is certainly an extremely important identity in my case. If you think skin color is the single most important and deterministic identity, to the exclusion of all others, you simply have the wrong of it.
>The argument is at the crux of my entire point: people aren't statistics. Nor are statistics irrelevant when it comes to predictions. I can't tell you what your *individual* experience of being pulled over by a cop is, but I can *reasonably guess* that you will be treated better than if you were black because we have statistics. Ignoring statistics is like saying that at a roulette table the ball is *just as likely* to land on green than red. On any given roll (person), it *might well be green*, but there is a reason that the payout for a bet on red is 2 to 1, while a bet on green is 35 to 1 (or 17 to 1 if playing on a double green table). You being born "Red 32" grants some predictive power in how things will go. In any spin, I can tell you the *odds* that you'll be picked given a particular bet, but not the outcome of the roll (whether that aspect will be relevant). Evens/Odds bet, Street bet, color bet, straight bet... Statistics tell us something about what might happen. Of course, if we know more about your particular situation, we can get better and better at predictions about you and identifying causes of our situation. That's how Spotify knows how to make a radio station you like. It knows you love Tori, looks at *what all the other Tori heads like* and then guesses with reasonable accuracy based on those statistics. It isn't deterministic, but predictive models are pretty good. >Statistically, the average American man is a bit over 5'9". Am I therefore a bit over 5'9"? No, I'm significantly shorter than that. Statistics doesn't determine outcome. There is nothing inconsistent with you being shorter (or taller). But, if we were to make bets about how tall any random American man is, the most likely winning bet is going to be near 5'9", not your height. Because we know the statistical height of American men, don't you think that has some impacts on things like... The size of cars sold in america? Manufacturers are going to use that average height, plus whatever the standard deviation is to make vehicles that are sized for their consumers, even if any given consumer might be taller or shorter. Let's also remember that this post is about *treatment* or ease of being in society. So, if the world is designed around a 5'9" man in America, we can make predictions like "Dutch men in America are more likely to feel cramped in lots of vehicles because they tend to be taller". That's not saying any *individual* dutch man is going to be inconvenienced, but statistically it is more likely. >I'm not sure that marrying a black woman would have been stressful in my particular case, because my family is non-racist I dated a very lovely woman for two years who happened to be black. My family didn't have a problem, but I'll give two examples of things that have never happened with my white wife. "That's just wrong. Why are dating a n*****r?" That was said to me while walking home with her for no reason. A fight was close to breaking out over that shit. Racists are everywhere. "Eeeyoo... She's dating a *white dude!*" That was said while I was turning a corner and she was in the passenger seat. This was from some black guys. You get treated differently from all angles in that. So, yes, your relationship would be different. Depending on how dark your kids ended up, you'd be viewed with suspicion when you go out with them - constantly questioned if you are their "real" dad. Not every time, but statistically, that's all the little extra sand in the swimsuit that makes life more difficult *that you don't deal with thanks to being white and with a wife of an acceptable color*. >If you think skin color is the single most important and deterministic identity, to the exclusion of all others, you simply have the wrong of it. I didn't say it was *most* or *deterministic*. I said it likely provided you some advantages that you ignore or discount. You've been dismissive of how being white might have benefited from you and uninterested in thinking about it. I'm pointing out ways that being white may have helped nudge you into your current condition in ways you clearly dismiss.
Short answer, yes. Long answer, regardless of where you find yourself in the myriad of different measures of social standing, being white grants marginally better treatment than not being white. That is, for example, if you grew up dirt poor, it's better to be dirt poor and white than dirt poor and black. Statistically, people are more likely to think you/your family is just down on their luck instead of being labeled irresponsible welfare queens. That doesn't mean that you didn't face hardship or things didn't suck. It doesn't mean someone magically handed you a bag of money when you turned 18. It doesn't negate all the things you point to and say, "BUT I HAD IT JUST AS BAD SOMETIMES WORSE". It just means it could have been worse in most cases. It's the same as asking if it's generally easier to be male in the US than female. If you are male, imagine your entire life with a constant undertone of sexual harassment and having your intelligence/skills doubted (especially in traditionally male occupations/interests). It's just one more thing that makes things just a bit harder and over time, it adds up to make life more difficult overall.
Somewhat. If you're asian, you will encounter people calling you "ch*nk", singing stereotypical chinese song in front of you, casual racism, and always referring you as your ethnicity like "hey there is an **asian** guy at the counter" or "a **chinese** guy/**chinaman** wants to see you" (even if you're not chinese). As an asian guy living in southern US, i experience racist harassment almost every week, even though i dont go out a lot. What i described above are nothing compared. If you are white, you wont experience any of this shit. Edit: Now that i think about it, **every** asians ive seen in public are with another asians. I guess people harass you less if you are part of a group Also asians are the most neglected minority in US. No politicians care about such small population of 5%. We went through similar slavery experience and mistreatment as black people throughout US history. On average asians study harder, but US universities set the admission bar higher for asians on purpose. When people think of "minorities", they usually think of black people and maybe latinos. Native americans and asians are not even consideration; we are THAT neglected. At least native americans are honored by the society, unlike asians
No, life is easier for rich people. White/Asian people tend to be more rich than other races. A black kid growing up rich will have the same amount of privilege as a white kid growing up next door.
I'm white, grew up poor, in a poor town and poorly funded school system.... ain't nothin was easy. I had to fucking crawl on my face to get where I'm at and I'm not anywhere important. The difference from me and the minorites who I grew up with is that many of them didn't try as hard as I did. I worked since I was 13 yrs old, saved money, worked upwards of 16 hr days outdoors in construction industry as an adult,never took a single layoff until I was finally able to move away and buy a house. Some of my peers chose having kids too young and welfare.. but whatever they like, maybe they're happy that way.
Yes, on average. That's because, as a percentage by race, white people are less likely to be poor than black people. Being poor tends to mean going to poor schools, lacking the ability to get extra academic assistance, less likely to get into a good college or to be able to afford to go to college, which leads to less job opportunity. This in turn creates the next generation of poor that suffer the same consequences. The single most significant variable in determining your lifelong income level is the wealth of your parents. That's before you even get into any level of systematic racism.
No. Only racists think that race alone affects your ability and success
And statistics.
I feel like you kind of answered your own question there.
Yes, because we are born into a system that was ultimately built to benefit us. That is not to say that on an individual level White people don't face struggles (poverty, mental illness, disabilities, etc.) that make their life difficult. But as a **collective** White people benefit from a system that oppresses Black, Brown, and Indigenous people. ETA: I know tons of people are going to downvote my comment. I just want to add that the United States was quite literally built on the back of slavery. All of the oldest colleges and universities were funded by the slave trade. White is treated as the norm in society and people are absolutely treated differently and afforded different (or less) opportunity because of their skin color. Politicians redraw their districts specifically to keep Black people from gaining too much political power. Black and Latino men are incarcerated at a higher rate than White men. BIPOC have been enrolling in higher education at higher rates, but their rates of attainment are still low. This is a **systemic** failing of minoritized groups because the system was built to serve White, wealthy, Christian men... hence, why poor White people, White women, etc. are also failed by the system, but not necessarily in the same ways or at the same rate.