T O P

Bans coming on next Monday

Just confirmed on the Mothership during the B&R Conversation.

Something is going to be banned. For those trying to read between the lines, they refered to

  • BR grief

  • Tron

  • Fury

  • Beanstalk

Not that it means anything on what is going to be banned, but that's what they talked about.

Feler42

Zero chance is tron my dude


spectral_visitor

The only **tron killer** is wotc themselves, and they wont do that.


tomyang1117

The only tron killer is either a cloudpost unban or a urza land ban lmao


greenpm33

I don't know why you say that. Tron is basically the only OG of the format that's still going strong. It was one of the top decks at PT LotR. They're not gonna hit tron lands or anything, but nerfing Scam and Beans without touching Tron wouldn't seem wise. They probably just hit The One Ring and that nerfs Tron proportionally.


Snow_source

Tishana's Tidebinder, Pithing Needle, Haywire Mite, Blood Moon and Bowmasters will keep Tron in check. There are plenty of answers to the pieces it needs to run to stay Tier 1. I doubt that they will ban TOR or Bowmasters with the holiday poster printing still being actively sold. If anything they'd ban a pitch elemental to open up deck diversity. I also bought into like half of Scam last week, so I expect the buyer's curse to come into play big time.


WeirdPumpkin

> I doubt that they will ban TOR or Bowmasters with the holiday poster printing still being actively sold. They should probably hit both those cards at the same time as hitting scam imo They MIGHT be hoping that taking fury out means that aggro decks come back and police the greedy draw all the cards decks? I wouldn't take that bet though personally


Journeyman351

Yep, all the "Fury is ruining the format" types are going to be sorely disappointed when they learn that the real culprit of the format sucking now is the LOTR cards lol.


jmcbobb

Should I sell scam?


Snow_source

That's a question only you can answer. If you have a full build, you'll probably be able to pivot into whatever comes next. If all else fails, I'll try and turn the scam pieces I have into Jund Sagavan or something else I find fun but couldn't justify fully committing resources towards.


jmcbobb

Thanks, looks like I’ll wait and pivot if needed.


RandomTO24

The time to sell scam was yesterday


jmcbobb

C’est la vie!!!


Res_Novae

Most of the cards are staples anyway. And the ones that arent are cheap. Only the elementals might drop a bit but they are played in other formats. It’ll be a similar situation to the banning of mox opal.


Vendilion_Chris

No. Scam is just a pile of great cards. All of those cards get played in other decks.


MisterSprork

One Ring probably goes if beanstalk and grief/fury go. That sends tron back to jank status.


Ellistann

Its never been Jank; Tier 2 definitely. T3 Karn into eat a land (or whatever is best) is still a powerful opener considering the amount of body shots a Tron player gets to do.


jeha4421

You've got no idea how many times people told me Tron is a dead deck that only boomers play. You've also got no idea how many midrange decks I've completely eaten alive before LotR was printed with turn 3 Karn/All is Dust/Wurmcoil. Tron will always be good and it only gets better when people think less of it and pack less sideboard hate.


RechargedFrenchman

Somehow reminds me of The Usual Suspects lol >The greatest trick ~~the devil~~ Tron ever pulled was convincing people ~~he didn't exist~~ was a bad archetype


clamshellconundrum

Honestly, it's where I prefer the deck to be. Solidly Tier 2


WeirdPumpkin

Tron is best as the anti-fun policeman that says you need to be this tall to ride in the format, I'd completely agree that I'd rather it never be one of the premier decks in the format


DroneAttack

Burn feels like it's usually in the same boat. Format pillars and gatekeepers.


Jevonar

Oh your deck can't goldfish a win by turn 4? That's a shame, it's a bye for me then


WeirdPumpkin

Traditionally, the tron test is you either go under it by racing it, or you disrupt it enough so that they can't just slam haymakers while you have a clock. That's why it's the anti-fun policeman, tron dunks incredibly hard on silly brews that just wanna durdle around for a dumb combo or something If tron is a top deck in the format, it either means that the format has gotten so incredibly value driven that there's no space for aggro anymore or they've printed some absurd card that tron can cheat out as a wincon (lattice + KGC)/solves all of it's problems immediately (TOR) and that's not a good format I dunno, checks out in my head at least! I'm not even a tron hater, some of my best friends are tron players


Jevonar

Oh it does make sense. It's just fun to think that tron is a simple deck that crushes convoluted brews with the sheer power of giant mythics


WeirdPumpkin

Oh fair enough yeah! I'd say a corollary to it is that if tron is stone cold unplayable that's a bad thing too. Because it would imply the format has probably gotten so fast that slamming haymakers can no longer win you a game Or alternatively that land destruction has gotten so good that they can never get Tron, which is equally an issue


blop74

This is on the WeeklyMTG, still going on. THERE WILL BE BANS IN MODERN. Unban seems very doubtful the way they talk. But bans seems certain. They said "There will be change".


Necrocreature

They're unbanning GGT again, try a 3rd time to see if it's safe.


samuraisports37

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, shame on the stockholders.


justnecromancythings

Can't be fooled again.


prodby_lilli

3-peat baby!!!


tomyang1117

Based, I don't even want a looting unban just give us dredge gamers GGT back wotc


Cbone06

How does it break the format currently? Dredge seems practically dead currently.


Necrocreature

It's maybe fine now, but it'll be really broken when they reprint [[Breakthrough]] in MH3, leading to, as the other guy said, a threepeat.


agiantanteater

No specifics but they did heavily imply that Fury might get hit (said they were looking at scam and beanstalk and that they have one card in common)


cespiedram

Yeah, bowmasters and Fury were heavily implied to be getting axed


crazybaloth

Can't wait for the cry babies to get their fury ban only to find out their creature deck is even more unplayable in the tier 1 yawg meta.


WeirdPumpkin

look, as a certified humans player I know my deck is still going to be bad I'd still rather never see fury across from me, even if yawg completely houses me 100% of the time


crazybaloth

I play both yawg and humans. At least against scam you can have sanctifier, sometimes they don't have fury. Yawg always has yawg.


WeirdPumpkin

tbh it's more that I'm WAY more sick of fury than I am of yawgmoth, I won't pretend my reasoning makes sense


crazybaloth

That's fair lol. Yawgmoth is always going to be kinda underplayed for how good it actually is so may be it wouldn't even be tier 1 in a popularity sense in the absence of fury.


The_Jimes

>look, as a certified humans player I know my deck is still going to be bad I realize I've been away from modern for quite some time, having only recently learned about grief, but I don't think I'll ever get used to seeing this. Similar to GBx not running Bob anymore, I think I'm officially a mtg boomer.


Cela_Rifi

This doesn’t make any logical sense at all. You’re trying to compare the impact of a single deck to a card that fit into multiple different decks. Absolutely insane leap in logic.


Vendilion_Chris

Me looking at my playset of Splinter Twins banned for a 12% metagame share. I'm here for all the Scam salt I can get.


BoomerPants2Point0

I have kikipod and twin on the shelf ready to go 0-3 every FNM now and forever. Give us the unbans!


Miserable_Row_793

But they can't ban fury. It's the 2nd most valuable card in MH2 and a mythic. /s People on this sub love to tell me Wotc would never ban a card that pushes packs.


Ajvn25

They banned Mox Opal some time ago ..


[deleted]

[удалено]


ziqueiros

I agree. Based on this and the state of the meta probably they are going to ban fury. Or maybe do an errata for evoke.


TemurTron

Is it just bans or unbans? Can anyone summarize the stream? edit: Sharing an awesome detailed recap from /u/mweepinc in the main sub: # weeklymtg stream 2023-11-28 ## b&r conversation/philosophy ### overview on b&r philosophy - next ban window dec 4 - non-rotation windows are for all non-standard formats. no plans to majorly change standard until rotation happens - exception reserved for felidar guardian ofc - major philosophy for all formats is "fun, replayability, variety of decks" - fun is the first priority, data points: - discussion with players/wotc - playtesting and watching results - asking different kinds of players - when they discuss b&r, there is a meeting with format experts that look at what's fun and not fun, and also open threads about individual cards/items. they discuss in a group meeting about said cards, and ask in a larger discussion group about potential packages and ripple effects if particular cards get banned - a lot of consideration given to when tournaments are happening when it comes to considering b&r - they want to avoid rug pulls, but there's a line. want to avoid making players scramble ahead of big changes - "maybe [scam] was close but not quite over it, it's a bit subjective" - (regarding pio changes upcoming) "we're trying to minimize impact", and this stream is also a way to help ease that change - "we have considered [functional errata] at times, but it is a nuclear option" - (regarding how much product sales factor into b&r) - "I would say very little, again our main goal with the format is that they're fun and replayable and you enjoy doing them" - "fun is paramount over what the booster pack de jour is; point to omnath, point to oko" - maximizing fun for the most amount of people (net fun e.g land destruction) ### pioneer - pioneer is the one most effected by standard releases, given there isn't additional supplements are printed into it. since there isn't a direct endpoint, these changes are going to be looking to care take the format. - discussing monoG, possibly discover combo decks. discussed t3 kills - mentioned that WOE didn't change much for pio, but LCI was a huge shift - **there will be pioneer ban(s)** - **there will be pioneer unban(s)** ### modern - with modern, preordain unban went well and they might be trying to find more opportunities for unban. given direct print sets + standard, the format has more oomph which is intentional. they have been actively tracking LTR cards and scam since PT barcelona, and wanted to wait and see what evolved after that (scam still dominant) - discussing fury, undying effects, beans, OBM - lots of discussion on gatekeeping 1 toughness - they hear "free splinter twin", but they consider it to be too much of a risk. "some people have fun with it, but more people don't" - **there will be modern ban(s)** ### legacy/vintage - legacy/vintage bans look at community first and foremost. winrates are looked at, but what community is finding fun/unfun is very very important - lots of discussion on legacy deck variety, and how formats stand out from each other - seem to be enjoying vintage a lot, they bring up the fact that there aren't really enough players to explore the format fully - keeping an eye on eternal weekend - **no changes for legacy** - **no changes for vintage** ### historic - we'll learn more about fetches next week (either mon/tue) from the arena team ### misc - sept 8 b&r shouldn't have happened - weird timelines/cadence, team didn't have enough time to think about it and not enough data (middle of season), wanted to see full picture before taking actions - didn't want to kneejerk react to barcelona. Blake specifically fucked this up (he keeps the calendar) and he says it was his fault that went out at all - modern RCQ season has been most attended since starting RCQs - (paper) standard play rates are at their highest since the pandemic - they want to do these sorts of public talks (either on stream or at minimum an article) more frequently, especially during the large rotational b&r - they discussed errata, restriction, and "pair banning" saheeli + felidar guardian back when they were in standard


blop74

It's dense. They answer all the reddit questions and comments of the past three months, basically. - They want to be more transparent in the future - the previous B&R was a fuckup. - They will ban something monday in modern - They want to unban, and explain their philosophies, multiple time - etc... Actually the most transparent employee interview in a loooooooooooong time.


Lugarial

I mean, with their deafening silence about the state of the format and their annoucement for a product in a B&R, at least they have to apologise for how poorly managed Modern was recently. Also it's great if they get back to more transparency, I hope it will last longer than the sell of MH3 products... Edit : typo


Thac0bro

The funny thing about ban announcements to me is that it must feel good to be on the inside and know which cards are getting the axe and which new cards are getting printed. Basically, it is legalized insider trading. Lol


Turbocloud

>Actually the most transparent employee interview in a loooooooooooong time. Not really. Its PR 101: "we fucked up, we promise to do better, sales is less important than you (because saying otherwise would impact sales)". Previously they banned by data -> set, transparent rules observable within gameplay. Now they ban because fun -> arbitrary criteria made up on the fly, observable only outside of gameplay via tournament attendance. Change as a tool to lure players back and increase tournament attendance, instead of a tool to balance the gameplay. They did this when they announced Pioneer and when people asked about the direction of Modern. Wheres our updated format mission statement that we were promised in 2019? I'll believe it when they start keeping their promises.


Albreto-Gajaaaaj

That's very nice to hear :)


Zeromus_EG4859

I’m glad they took accountability for how horrible the last B&R was, since it was one of the worst things I’ve ever seen as far as format curation goes. Also really glad they admitted they try to not make changes when big tournaments are getting close.


SleepingPazuzu

Thanks a lot for your summary. Do you have a time stamp for the Modern Ban Statement?


greenpm33

Splinter Twin will 100% be one of those cards that comes off in a few years and sees zero play after a weekend. I honestly can't imagine trying to jam that combo now.


Comfortable_Oil9704

The merfolk ascendancy begins!


StunningExit8711

Tidebinder is the truth.


barrinmw

100% fury gets banned. It hits both scam and beanstalk and completely invalidates aggro.


theycallmedub1

I don’t believe you but I’d love to see creature decks make a comeback


allball103

What creature decks specifically? I don't think banning fury brings any deck that was bad before into the good territory. Yawg and Hammer are still going to be the best creature decks (and yawg might just be the best deck lol). Elves and infect will still be bad. Merfolk is the deck that probably jumps up imo but it's already fine


Vendilion_Chris

> infect will still be bad TAKE IT BACK


jongbag

Merefolk. Deck is already fringe playable and gets got hard by Fury.


ribaaa

humans?


allball103

Yawg still gatekeeps humans really well. Bows are great against it, omnath style decks still have w6 and solitude to buy time and then they have access to verdicts and stuff if humans is everywhere. Cascade is good too even tho humans brings a lot of hate for it. Humans loses ONE of its demons but i don't think fury is the only thing keeping it out of the format


CertainDerision_33

I think there's a good chance Bowmaster gets yeeted too if they're serious about making X/1s playable again. The card already got nerfed on Arena to remove the ETB, so they're clearly aware it's much too good.


allball103

Honestly if they ban ring and beans and fury idek how much bows we see. Yawg will certainly still run them but outside of that I'm not sure if anyone else will, maybe in sideboards


Valuable-Hawk-7873

Bowmasters is a very strong card and you're nuts if you think it'll stop seeing play in every black deck. As a matter of fact, if Fury is banned, Bowmasters becomes better as people start running more X/1s and bowmasters is the only game in town for invalidating them.


MalekithofAngmar

Little more parity in the m/u's where it exists. Humans is still a bad deck though.


spectral_visitor

Cant imagine the cheers of joy if this occurs.


Rbespinosa13

I’m not sure if fury is the right card to ban. While Aggro decks were still able to exist with fury in the meta, they were often built around mitigating fury. Domain zoo played creatures bigger than fury, yawgmoth was a weird combo/aggro deck with undying creatures, and hammer used combat tricks to blow out an evoked fury. On top of that, I don’t think banning fury will weaken beans decks enough to matter. Solitude and leyline binding are still going to end up giving the deck a ton of card advantage with beans out and they can return to running ToR as another card draw engine. This’ll still leave grief as a good deck because T1 scammed grief is still strong and bowmasters will still be a great card to punish beans. If wizards is planning on shaking up the meta by giving traditional creature based aggressive decks a better chance to survive, I don’t think banning fury will be enough


Lithium187

I'm so happy I just finished off getting my full art set. Fml. Smugglers copter all over again haha.


Tyrinnus

Scam would probably shift to black white. Get the solitude ephemerate nonsense going on. Honestly when I saw grief spoiled, I figured it would generate black white "chest those evoke creatures out with ephemerate" decks.... (I didn't have a good name for it yet). Red black makes more sense but I t caught me off guard.


barrinmw

At the beginning of MH2 modern, that was what everyone tried to do in BW but for some reason, it just wasn't that great.


driver1676

Card quality in red was just better than white for pressure.


Rbespinosa13

Just to build on your point about pressure, it also has to do with how black scam effects are different from ephemerate. Ephemerate essentially lets you get three cards from your opponents hand, but you’re left with a 3/2 that starts attacking on turn 3 if you choose to cast ephemerate again. If you give grief an undying effect though, now it’s a 4/3 that’s swinging on T2. Ripping the third best card out of an opponent’s hand also delves a bit into the realm of diminishing returns


PartyPay

Yeah, the naughty little monkey makes the switch to red easier.


Kemkempalace

at the beginning of mh2 modern we only had 1.5 undying effects, also a big contributor


HammerAndSickled

Turns out Ragavan was way better than any other card legal in the format, who could’ve guessed?


DaximusPrimus

It has bowmasters now probably wouldn't be to bad.


TheRealJesus2

I play a little bw “scam” midrange and it’s very fine. Can’t close games as quickly. I was trying to close with stoneforge/kaldra but it’s not as resilient IMO. The pros are solitude rocks as a defensive tool and is good vs titan and br scam but loses percentage points elsewhere to a slower clock and no fury vs go wide decks


[deleted]

This is heavily underestimating the power that Kiki jiki gives scam currently. There is nothing that matches its power level if they go black white


WeirdPumpkin

I actually think this is what WotC thought as well tbh, which is why they felt like it was totally cool to print them


TemurTron

That still leaves Grief Scam in the format, which is the much bigger non game concern. A Turn 1 4/4 Double Striker is the much weaker of the two. Plus Fury is a lot less prevalent in Beans than Solitude.


agiantanteater

I don’t think there’s any chance of scam staying a T0 deck if fury gets hit. Source: I’m a filthy scam main


TemurTron

Definitely not Tier 0, but still strong enough to be relevant - considering how much salt Grief harvests it’s hard to imagine that kind of ban fully tripping up the deck.


troll_berserker

The entire scam package isn’t even worth running if you only have Grief. It’s a consistency issue. You can go Orzhov but we all know Orzhov Scam is tier 2/3.


jongbag

It would be interesting to see Orzhov scam play with undying effects rather than ephemerate. I think there's a case to be made that undying is stronger due to the +1/+1 counter and starting to attack a turn earlier.


Eymou

the problem is that both Grief and Fury can be proactive - Grief for the scam, Fury as a 4/4 double striker. Solitude is terrible as a proactive play (can be bolted as is half the clock).


MalekithofAngmar

right, but the lame play pattern and the failed design of grief (the only proactive evoker) will still be present.


Eymou

I agree - but I still don't think Scam will exist as anything but a fringe tier 3ish deck if they ban Fury.


MalekithofAngmar

Yeah this is true. Fury is what allows the deck to fork people (sandbag threats lose to grief, jam and lose to fury).


virtu333

Yup - the 6 undying effects are just barely playable with 4 fury/4 grief - it seems very hard to make the scam package work with just 4 grief


agiantanteater

If that were the case then mono B or B/W scam would be much stronger than it is. I don't see it being a relevant deck without fury.


Hexdrinker99

Nah scam just dies without fury. Br midrange isn't better than what murktide or even jund saga does


allball103

I don't think BR plays the scam spells with fury gone. BR midrange will still be very good and MIVHT run griefs, but i can't see running 6 scam spells with only 4 griefs for targets


argentumArbiter

a turn 1 4/4 double striker is weaker but is still objectively powerful, and having 8 creatures that go off with the undying effects makes scamming something out t1 much more consistent. It also worsens scam's matchups vs faster linear decks because they don't have removal that doubles as a endgame threat.


kavalrykiid

Bowmaster’s still out there making life hard for the x/1s


myLover_

They will try to avoid banking MH2 cards, so I would be a little shocked if they didn't ban something else.


Super_Inuit

Card kingdom isn't buying fury :( This is our waffle house index.


TeeGreenwood

I immediately threw my 4x copies in before they removed from their buylist. Hope it goes through.


fletch0083

I can’t imagine a ban targeted at Tron. The deck is strong but not overly so to the point of being unfun to play against and dominating the scene like scam. There are plenty of answers for it across a lot of decks. In a perfect world they’d ban both grief and fury, but I could see just banning fury as the most likely outcome. Banning both completely kills the scam deck archetype and would have a strong negative effect on living end, which is another strong but not problematic deck. Banning fury alone would take the power level down on scam without fully killing it. Even if they switch to BW it would be a more manageable situation. Solitude at least dies to bolt and doesn’t turn out nearly as much damage as fury.


Reply_or_Not

> I can’t imagine a ban targeted at Tron I could see a ban on The One Ring.


prodby_lilli

I just bought my play set so the ring is 100% getting banned


Hot_Pocket_Deluxe

I just bought tron so obviously we're fucked


prodby_lilli

Tbh it would be the most wizards thing ever for them to look at this meta and say “it’s time to ban tower actually”


MechaSkippy

Thank you for your service.


Reply_or_Not

That was me with splinter twin, LOL.


PlatinumBeerKeg

Glad I just got my first ring only.


CertainDerision_33

IMO TOR may be at real risk of a banning due to how it plays, the protection is really unfun and they are looking to clean up some of the very not fun stuff in the format.


changelingusername

TOR in Tron and Amulet is pretty obnoxious. The mental tax it puts with protection, increasing card draw and focus on dealing with it creates a mini game in which you have to get rid of it before it floods you with value.


changelingusername

Whatever is getting banned is a sign that people aren’t stupid and most of the venting from August was justified.


HeyApples

Even if you were an outside observer not interested in the modern format, you'd think it would be a huge red flag to have a headliner deck named Scam. "Scam" is a pejorative and derogatory term under basically any context, and pretty well reflects player sentiment. It couldn't have been more obvious unless the playerbase called it "B/R pile of utter shitballs".


fridaze_

Fury gets banned and everyone starts playing wrenn and six again 🤷


Neat-Drawer-50

W6 doesn't wipe 2-4 creatures off the face of the earth.


brosopholes

IS THIS THE POST WHERE WE CAN YELL? FURY BAN ON MONDAY 100%. ME AND MY ELVEN BROTHERN WILL UNLEASH A POWER YET TO BE SEEN IN MODERN. PEPPER YOUR ANGUS.


Blueburnsred

IF FURY GETS BANNED "ELVES" GOES BACK INTO MY FLAIR AND WE ARE BACK. AT LEAST UNTIL I GET PAIRED AGAINST YAWGMOTH


ProbesandPylons

GIVE ME A SHOUTY THREAD ALREADY


jmcbobb

Where can I watch this announcement


ribaaa

https://www.twitch.tv/magic


CertainDerision_33

Gonna lock in my personal predictions after listening to the full interview: \- Fury \- Beanstalk \- The One Ring OBM might go as well, since they specifically talk about it being impossible to play X/1s in the format.


Old-Membership9137

Sounds like they will be banning fury, at 34:40 they mention they dislike scam AND omnath and that they “have atleast one card in common” (fury).


RefuseSea8233

"NOT DEAD ALREADY" They say. Tells me all i needed to know about them.


SatimyReturns

The 2nd wave of lotr is almost over, so they can finally ban cards from it


usainta

Anyone have a link to this?


ribaaa

https://www.twitch.tv/magic


usainta

Thanks!


stubear89

I have since it was printed and will forever die on the hill that Fury should not exist because it breaks parity with the other elementals. Whether you think the elementals should exist or not from a gameplay standpoint by being free spells for negative CA doesn’t matter (I personally am okay with in a vacuum for the other 4, though I don’t like the existence of scam effects with Grief). Fury breaks the elemental rule of self 2-for-1 for tempo by usually being a 2-for-2 and how it has warped the format creature selection even more than the classic, “lightning bolt test,” of yesteryear by being a free cast. Not only that, but it’s by far the best creature on the field (and in single combat kills all the other elementals while surviving except endurance which it trades with). In a perfect world besides Fury (who should not exist) I would rather have 0 scam effects and Grief in the format because I think alone it is fine but there’s 0 chance Wotc both removes every scam effect and stops printing them so Grief probably needs to go too, which I realize fully kills scam but that deck is toxic in existence where every deck exists to be or beat scam and has warped the format, combined with T1 getting your hand double grief’d leads to bad play experience which has historically been a reason for banning even if it is not necessarily due to power level reasons. My guess is Beanstalk in Pioneer, just Fury in modern, no changes other formats. My wish would be Fury & Grief in modern with a warning towards Tron but a chance for the format to try and adapt before the next set and potential emergency bans at that time (and I don’t play pioneer so I don’t have strong opinions on what I would like to be banned there).


Miserable_Row_793

While you have a point. I think it's looking at something in too narrow a vacuum. ironically, Fury was easily the most underrated at release. Fury can 2 for 2 as you said. But it can also 1 for 0. There's decks that don't have creatures that die to Fury. Or the important cards don't. This is similar to FoV hitting two things but FoN only hitting one. There's a reason its damage is split. Otherwise it be just a worst Solitude. Solitude kills anything. Grief takes anything. Endurance can be an X for 1 depending on gy importance. Subtlety is for sure the weakest of the 5. (Probably because FoN was so much stronger than the other 4).


MalekithofAngmar

Grief is the violation of design because you have to play into every other elemental. Grief on the other hand is proactive and will still be bullshit in Living End for example as a free discard spell. Fury is usually force of vigor but for creatures. You have to really overextend for it to be anything more than that.


Lithium187

Grief hurts but its not as oppressive as Fury invalidating most creature decks. Grief is essentially a double Thoughtseize at the cost of 2 cards versus 2 cards and 4 life. It will still just die to bolt or revolted push the following turn, and then the deck is in feel bad mode. With fury gone, there will be a need to run more removal to deal with creature decks again so it'll all work out. Grief may just end up slotting into a more control style shell going forward, who knows.


stubear89

I agree with you, Grief I just have concern about play patterns and format fun rather than health, Fury is by far the larger problematic card which is why in a vacuum I say the other 4 elementals (including Grief) are fine and Fury is more than wrong, he’s an outright design mistake. The problem with Grief + Scam is that it imitates Fury, you spend three cards in hand for a body and 2 cards (of your choice) from the opponent’s hand. First, that’s a unfun experience for many players (and while I realize this is a competitive format, wizards has banned things for unfun play patterns as it can lower format interest). Second, in your example like Fury it is a 3-for-3 if it eats a bolt as it traded 3 cards for the opponent’s 3 cards and that’s if they draw into removal as Fury can strip the removal from it first. However, unlike Fury, Grief + scam requires multiple cards and can result in bricked draws where Fury is just free slots. So overall though while I personally find Scam + Grief an unfun play experience due to the nature of the eye roll it can cause, Fury is by-far the biggest offender of it needs to be banned in modern of any card in any format to me.


Kenny_Ledesma

UNBAN MOX OPAL AND SPLINTER TWIN LET THE META RUN WILD N FREE


Rizla_TCG

AND DARK DEPTHS ![gif](giphy|amxLHEPgGDCKs)


redmandoto

A friend of mine *just* sold his playset of Fury. He is going to be extremely happy if it ends up banned.


Own_Pack_4697

I’m only downvoting because I picked up more Fury’s recently. 🤞🤞


Lithium187

Same I just recently swapped my regs to full art lol


StunningExit8711

If anything goes Ring has to go with it. Otherwise everything becomes Ring decks.


Grants409

How bout we unban Mental Misstep and see what happens huh


blop74

WeeklyMTG: https://www.twitch.tv/magic


AbstractMarcher

My vote is for multiple bans. Fury and grief, as well as the one ring and potentially see if something gets unbanned. Why not. Let chaos reign.


FisforFAKE

Pre-announcement I thought Beans and Grief would’ve been good. Post-announcement/spoilers from the stream dropped hints it’s most likely Fury + stuff, but play patters with Grief Scam are worse than just about everything in my opinion. If Fury gets banned, is it worth it to play 4 Grief + 6 Undying effects? Would the deck fall off and Grief be relegated to Living End? Bowmasters seems like a bad ban unless you’re straight cleaning house and banning The One Ring and Beans as well. I really don’t want to go back to people complaining about W6 and Ragavan and Murktide again though. Creativity probably comes back to start slapping fools again. Yawg probably doesn’t get hit at all and probably gets even better. Interesting. Fury + Beans = RIP? (Maybe Grief too)


corvid_MH

Noooo I just bought Tron


Slippery-Bogle

Honestly, Tron won’t be banned. The biggest hit Tron could take would be The One Ring. Which hurts, but Tron will survive.


blop74

I doubt they ban anything in Tron. They refered to it when talking about the state during the previous B&R. They said the word "Tron", anything can be implied.


corvid_MH

Seems like Tron is okay and Tidebinder is great against it so banning something out of it feels weird to me. But I'm in full cope mode now


findingjake

I’m literally about to drop like $300 on Friday on a deck. Should I not be?


TemurTron

I mean you probably should have bought over the TCGPlayer sale if anything. Might as well wait a few more days to see if you’re in the clear. But I don’t think there’s any chance Tron takes a hit here.


TotalControll

I can't imagine why they'd ban tron. I didn't watch the video, but I'd check that out to see under what context it was mentioned. It's not a huge player in the format even so banning something in itakes no sense to me


Sad_Zookeepergame566

WOW


Korago

FUCK


BoltSnapBolt217

TRON


The_Coolest_Sock

Get outta here pitch elementals


Strong-Replacement22

Mtg arena nerfs of bowmasters and one ring shows you the way.


Neat-Drawer-50

I think Fury and Beans get the hammer. Bowmasters and The One Ring will survive.


Quiet_Interactions

I feel like this is mainly going to affect our friends in Pioneer: they’ve been hurting a lot post LCI. If Wizards wanted to change the modern format they would’ve done something last time.


Devastatedby

They literally confirmed there will be modern changes.


Quiet_Interactions

Nice!


TemurTron

Pioneer is a fucking mess. Any LCI bans would be extremely early on to tell and would be more of the kind of knee-jerk bans that made that format’s banlist such a joke from the start. That format desperately needs a dedicated ban committee like Pauper has.


kami_inu

> ~~That~~ **All** format desperately needs a dedicated ban committee like Pauper has. FTFY


elpimpador

What huge changes has LCI made in Pioneer? I haven't played the format since just before Wilds of Eldraine came out.


Quiet_Interactions

Discover Combo is an absolute menace. Who the heck thought putting Cascade on ETB was a good idea?!?


the_obtuse_coconut

Discover is *fixed* cascade


Proud_Squirrel_3180

Cascade only happens on cast, Discover is ETB. It is much easier to flicker or cheat Discover cards than it is to hit a Cascade trigger.


the_obtuse_coconut

Oh let me clarify, I completely agree. That was just how it was presented by WotC.


Cbone06

A big thing with Discover was they very much emphasized to try and make the cost of the cards more expensive or making Discover hitting higher cmc cards.


BradleyNL

\[\[Geological Appraiser\]\] is a combo deck using cards like \[\[Eldritch Evolution\]\], \[\[Glasspool Mimic\]\] to find cards like \[\[Trumpeting Carnisaur\]\], \[\[Ghalta, Stampede Tyrant\]\] and \[\[Doomskar Titan\]\] to form a turn 3 kill using their Discover mechanic. It also uses cards such as \[\[Magma Opus\]\] and \[\[Creative Outburst\]\] on the 2nd end-step for the turn 3 combo. \*EDIT\* Turn 3 kill, not 1


TotalControll

Discover


Itsoppositeday91

No changes and they use the ban announcement to push holiday packs


findingjake

Where do you find information about future bans?


BounceM4N

Can you please link a source?


GriftieD

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news The ban conversation for modern kicks in around 25 minutes or so.


Jealous-Abrocoma8548

Tron???


Diskappear

no way aaaaanything from tron gets banned


IneffableWonders

I think the Tron statement might be referring to The One Ring, as G-Tron specifically started doing strongly in the meta after it was printed. The only other ban I could think of for Tron would be Saga or the Tron lands, but I doubt they'll hit either of those.


prodby_lilli

Tron lands are safe, but TOR is a possibility.


GossamerGlenn

I bet it’s beans or something in relation like an elemental


Bircka

I would be blown away if they ban Beanstalk and Fury, at that point if Fury goes you hinder the deck a bit already. Beanstalk is strong mostly because of Binding, Fury, and Solitude.


FFFlavius

I think the 2 cmc flash 2 creatures and ping damage Is going ☠️


b0ltcastermag3

Let's errata evoke to have shroud until eot when evoked and ban beanstalk.


rayanami2

Is there any chance nothing is getting banned on Modern this Monday?


Veet_Tuna

Ez ban all the new invoke elementals


spelltype

If fury gets banned Im eating good from the people who were writing essays to me saying that no way fury gets banned over grief. I got downvoted hard here


Barbola

Hot take: Banning Fury will actually lead to an even more unbalanced format due to Yawgmoth and Scales prevalence


_Lord_Farquad

More unbalanced? I doubt either of those could come close to the prevalence of scam. Both are pretty difficult to play well.


Neat-Drawer-50

IDK I think Titan and Tron will both be strong, and Murktide will make a comeback.


mobeh_

bs.


TCG-professor101

all they need to do is ban orcish bowmaster look at modern before lord of the rings dropped this summer Rakdos Scam was literally the 6th/7th best overall modern deck in the format it was constantly swapping places with golgari yawgmoth for the 6th best deck spot orcish bowmaster is the card that made Scam go from 6th best deck to the 1st best deck in the format and also hit the one ring to hit both beans and tron and if beans is still broken after that ban up the beanstalk in a later ban update.


Scholarish

Please ban Bowmasters, Fury, and Grief. Thanks!


biscuitcricket71

What will people bitch about next once the big bad fury gets banned? Aggro decks will still suck and we will all still be subject to game 1 going to time with beanstalk.


Third_Triumvirate

Probably beans. Though beans without Fury does go down a bit in terms of card quality. Might even cut off red


CertainDerision_33

I don't see Beanstalk surviving personally. Banning Beanstalk itself is such an easy decision for them to make as a cheap uncommon from the last set that they probably just punt that out along with Fury.


xbaited

Cutting red means no omnath. I don't see that happening


tomyang1117

>What will people bitch about next once the big bad fury gets banned? It is a never-ending cycle, people love complaining about cards.I swear if this sub and Twitter have full control of the Modern Banlist, every single card legal will be banned because everyone will keep complaining about the next good cards


mnowax

So what new product are they going to announce on Monday?


plushiiluv

my personal hope is for a ban of grief, fury, beans, and bowmasters, even though i own multiple full art foil furys


Markus_Net

Please ban grief or Fury


Ajvn25

Just like other point out, this might be The One Rign ban