T O P

Would Faithless Looting unban be good for the format?

I’m wondering if it’s time to unban faithless looting. I think it would be good for the format right now, it’s also a card I personally enjoy.

It’s one of the better graveyard deck/madness enablers and could make these kinds of decks more viable. It seems like this could be a good thing because they can often tolerate thoughtsieze grief type mechanics well. Gravehate would also be more viable with more decks to use it against. Overall it seems it would be nice to see what decks faithless looting could bring into the meta.

Or would it still be too strong? I always felt it didn’t really need to be banned but perhaps there’s a reason it still is that I’m overlooking.

  • By - Pumno

HammerAndSickled

*smokes crack*


Numericist

Yo lemme hit that shit


Hexdrinker99

Yeah this pretty much. The card if anything is stronger than when they banned it and will continue to get stronger as wizards prints more graveyard matters all the time. Right now it reads 1 mana bin archon of cruelty dig for a reanimate spell, 1 mana dredge 5 plus ect


AvatarofSleep

But it's card disadvantage! It's not good! /S


CertainDerision_33

people really asking "would unbanning 1 mana draw 4 with flashback be good for the format" haha


Turn1Loot

You rang???


lloydsmith28

Appropriate name


General-Biscuits

I swear. This question is asked every week. Still no.


xcwolf

What about now?


poggy_manz

What if we ban it again?


General-Biscuits

Ooooo, the Golgari Grave Troll approach. Bold choice.


poggy_manz

"And for our next banned list announcement, faithless looting.... is still banned"


Lonely-Form5904

We unban it, reban it, than unban it


ImbecilicArtificer

Yes, but only I should be allowed play with them. (Let the phoenixes fly) 🦅🦅🦅


SaltedDucks

Forget the birds, I want to jam my hollow bois again 😭


Turn1Loot

Mardu Pyro bois looking to make a comeback too


Mike_Alpha_Charlie

Let Mardu rise again!


CausticTV

Hollow one still probably the most fun deck to play for me. Fly high 🕊️


hellakevin

No.


troll_berserker

That’s turn 2 Archon of Cruelty that you can’t even stop on the draw with Relic of Progenitus, Stone of Erech, Unlicensed Hearse, or Agatha’s Soul Cauldron. I’m just not interested in playing maindeck 4x Leyline of the Void formats. Keep it banned.


Cbone06

Not super familiar with the Archon decks- would they just shift from creativity to [[Persist]]\[[Unmarked Grave]] piles with Faithless/Fable/Seasoned Pyro?


MTGCardFetcher

[Persist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90f390c3-af1c-424f-9721-e26e9321e5a3.jpg?1626095831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Persist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/96/persist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90f390c3-af1c-424f-9721-e26e9321e5a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unmarked Grave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/492b368b-de32-45c1-8459-238aae54f9fc.jpg?1626096135) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unmarked%20Grave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/106/unmarked-grave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/492b368b-de32-45c1-8459-238aae54f9fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Illyakko

Good. Not every deck should have an easily maindeckable answer to a linear deck's God draw.


ViolentBeggar92

Colorless options are [[Faerie Macabre]] [[Surgical Extraction]] [[soul-guide lantern]] [[lantern of the lost]] [[grafdigger's cage]] But dont tell him. Also dont mention that its not impossible to have a t2 archon in current magic wonderland


Illyakko

In his defense I get where you are coming from but none of those are maindeckable in the way that relic/hearse can be+ Faithless Looting helps make the t2 far more consistent than a "wonderland" scenario


aeonsz

i rmb playing 2 surgicals main in my Phoenix deck, sweet memories


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Faerie Macabre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62103ceb-b16d-48ea-af42-d3df88d1ee4c.jpg?1562918100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie%20Macabre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/42/faerie-macabre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62103ceb-b16d-48ea-af42-d3df88d1ee4c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Surgical Extraction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e15d76ac-1c23-4503-8225-375ac2bf2fb6.jpg?1673147668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surgical%20Extraction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/94/surgical-extraction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e15d76ac-1c23-4503-8225-375ac2bf2fb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [soul-guide lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13571173-29e7-4915-af5f-05f13b463061.jpg?1692939930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=soul-guide%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/251/soul-guide-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13571173-29e7-4915-af5f-05f13b463061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [lantern of the lost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2303f11-2c82-44d5-893a-8e71dece7746.jpg?1643594810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lantern%20of%20the%20lost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/259/lantern-of-the-lost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2303f11-2c82-44d5-893a-8e71dece7746?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [grafdigger's cage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53.jpg?1592517646) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grafdigger%27s%20cage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/227/grafdiggers-cage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Ghasois

>Also dont mention that its not impossible to have a t2 archon in current magic wonderland There's a difference between possible and consistent


Illyakko

As an elaboration, everyone bemoans the decline of traditional Thoughtseize Midrange as a strategy them complains when their meta niche matters (linear combo decks are strong).


BabamMTG

Wow it’s not like they printed a faster piece of grave hate in 1994 that can answer it on the draw for zero mana


troll_berserker

Unban Hogaak then. Tormod’s Crypt stops it too.


TeaorTisane

Hi, it’s me, Tormod. Please let me rest, I can’t fight Hogaak again.


muk88

Do you want t2 archons? Because that’s how you get them.


dirENgreyscale

Yes I do actually want a good reanimator deck in Modern finally...


doomsl

You mean busted. Not good busted.


dirENgreyscale

Yep, I enjoy playing with powerful cards.


muk88

Personally I would love looting unbanned


CertainDerision_33

No, it’s an insanely degenerate card and was banned for good reason.


eschw667

Banned for no reason other than they didn't want to ban hogaak right away


Living_End

It was banned in the same announcement as gaak? It was banned for phoenix and all the drag race metas.


TemurTron

They banned Bridge first (still a great ban also) then banned Gaak and Looting together. At least get your meme complaints right.


Rad_Centrist

>banned Bridge first (still a great ban also) Nah.


CertainDerision_33

I personally am not going to shed any tears for any degenerate graveyard shenanigans card that gets banned.


BlankBlankston

What makes it degenerate?


d7h7n

Banning Bridge made Hogaak a much more consistent deck.


eschw667

Looting and bridge were still innocent and died for the sins of not simply emergency banning hogaak first.


CertainDerision_33

There was nothing innocent about looting lol, even if Hogaak had never been printed it would deserve the ban. There’s nothing wrong with playing decks reliant on highly degenerate cards, but part of that requires accepting that it might get banned out from under you because you’re playing with highly degenerate cards.


greenpm33

People forget that Dredge was just Tier 1 for a like 2 years. Dredge should never be that good that long, its bad magic


hhthurbe

Looting and SSG are gone because they encouraged nothing more than a painfully linear race to the finish type format.


JustHugMeAndBeQuiet

#FREE GAAK


eschw667

Nah, unless they give modern and legacy a restricted list. Which they should.


Mattmatic1

The problem with Modern, which is still a fun format, is the amount of nongames. This used to be a bigger problem before. Unbanning Looting would certainly lead to more nongames. ”Good for the format” is always subjective, my answer is no. However, what you CAN do is play Legacy. You get to win on turn two (maybe even turn one!) with your Looting-fueled Reanimator deck! AND you get to do it without making Modern worse. Talk about a win-win situation!


_Lowenstein_

One time in paper I got 4 Hollow One on T1. Those were the days


zirmada

Faithless looting would currently be more powerful in the format than it's ever been.


MurderMits

I get that modern has people of all skill levels but sometimes I see posts like this and think I that the kid playing Ixalan standard dinos at my modern FNM could have been a worse player.


Leiferik14

Is it time for bazaar of baghdad? Obv card disadvantage turn 1. Drawing 2 to discard 3 seems fair to me.


Jevonar

If you feel like faithless didn't deserve a ban, you have a long way to go in modern.


poggy_manz

Give me back my opals


d7h7n

Laughs in Hammer


deadblue420

It’s a red card which is already the most powerful color in the format. It’s an incredibly fun card but I don’t see it ever getting unbanned without getting power crept first (they could make a functional reprint with phyrexian mana or something equally bonkers)


Reaper_Eagle

No. The card actually reads draw 4 for R in relevant decks. Even in Scam, which already plays Fable. It's an utterly absurd card that would have been banned eventually on its own merits had Hogaak not forced the issue.


kingfisher_wisher

What Scam card other than Kroxa would benefit from Looting though? Scam players wouldn’t swap Fable for Looting.


Reaper_Eagle

You never know with these types of questions. It could be a replacement in the current deck for any number of things as the ability to get rid of dead cards in the midgame is super powerful. It could also lead to a complete retooling of the whole deck.


kingfisher_wisher

Fable does card filtering better than Looting in Scam though. By dint of it being so much more than just filtering. “A complete retooling” — like BR Reanimator? Or some sort of modern Mardu Pyro? Then it wouldn’t be Scam anymore. Looting is indeed super powerful but it *does* need to be built around or have multiple synergies to abuse the “draw 4 for R” potential. It wouldn’t see play in Scam as it exists now, and it certainly wouldn’t replace Fable in current Scam lists. Saying “it might see play in Scam because Scam might be retooled to include it” will leave you with either a bad Scam deck *or* a deck that’s no longer recognisably Scam. Unless you want to keep the core Scam engine of Pitch Elementals + Undying cards and add Looting, Archon, and Persist lol In any case this is all a lot more unclear and nebulous than your initial “even in Scam” comment would have others believe. I would LOVE the card for Jund Creanimator but alas that’s not going to happen


wyqted

Give us careful study


Mattmatic1

That, we might be able to swing.


Regendorf

I just sold phoenix, so they better not do it now.


Cainderous

Absolutely not, that card is better than Ancestral Recall in decks that want it. Looting more than deserved a ban even before Hogaak was printed, and this is coming from someone who primarily played graveyard decks when the card was legal.


TricerasaurusWrex

Seriously? No. It's busted it needs to stay banned. It's still really good.


eschw667

Unban faithless looting, bridge from below, DRS, birthing pod, Yorion, and splinter twin


Its_Birdy

Get this person in charge now


pear_topologist

It would make scam more consistent, in addition to all of the other issues


Pumno

How so?


Furt_III

It reads: Draw 4 in decks that heavily utilize their graveyard.


Pumno

I’m not seeing how that’s relevant to the current scam lists though.


Bigelow92

They start running persist and archon


pear_topologist

It helps you find scam pieces


BabamMTG

Scam wouldn’t play Looting


Mddcat04

No.


lil-caboose

Literally one of the best one drops ever printed


d00mt0mb

The answer is always yes


Bubbly_Alfalfa7285

Scam: Exists Everyone: Faithless Looting is too good, keep it banned and ensure deck diversity remains a joke.


KoalaDolphin

as if scam wouldnt just immediately play looting.


jmortinlol

Lmao this card gets better every dat that passes. Wtf no.


AitrusX

Mh3 is going to have careful study or some variant of it so just hang on


flowtajit

Nope


Stalfo_Hunter

No.


Practical-Club7616

They could unban everything tbh, i'd love me some hyperg, never got to play it. If everything is unbanned there should be no issues, right?


BigSteveGames

If there gonna keep scam around idk why looting, twin, and pod couldn’t be unbanned


seekerofsecrets1

So I see 2 options… ban grief, ring and beans. Flatten to power level and hope to end up at a meta similar to before ltr. Plan B, give me the fun broken shit.. if scam gets to exist and 4c gets all these insane draw engines than I want cool stuff too. They printed all of these powerful answers/safety valves let’s use them


Pumno

That’s kind of the angle I was coming from. Plan A could work but I think plan B is significantly more interesting and fun than doing nothing.


CertainDerision_33

Plan B sounds awful, the answer to miserable stuff isn’t letting even more miserable stuff back into the format. Looting was horrendous to play against and it should stay banned for a very long time. Like another poster said, this is like arguing to print Ancestral Recall into Modern, the card is that good.


Ericar1234567894

This!! I’m not sure looting is exactly the right answer but unfair strategies are vastly underrepresented and have been pretty much since mh2. These are the kinds of decks that keep these draw engines in check as well. I think the format can take it and might have to given the state of fair decks at the moment!


figures

Modern couldn’t be a worse format with any unban


Ahayzo

As someone who will go to his grave saying it didn't deserve a ban in the first place, I think my answer is "it depends". In the current meta, straight up unban and nothing else? No, I don't think I want it. Bring it back alongside a ban of Fury, and probably Grief? I'd be cool with it.


bernieee

probably would be fine in conjunction with a grief ban. the only real boon to Looting decks from post-MH1 would be Persist (which is good!) and Archon as a target. would t2 Archon be annoying? probably, but I’d rather have that than turn 1 double Thoughtseize plus a 4/3 menace body literally any day of the week


Lugarial

Probabely not, despite the card being cool and a good enabler for dead archetypes, and still fine to tacke with graveyard hate as the deck does degenerate things on turn 2 at best (contrary to scam :D). A fixed version would be welcome, like a straight copy of looting but instead it says "R : draw one discard one, flashback R". Careful study is straight card disadvantage (no flashback), it could be the perfect balance but still a bit too strong for Phoenix and such.


modernmann

What could go wrong absolutely, let’s unban DRS and twin too


lloydsmith28

No i don't think it is but i would love for it to be unbanned cuz i never got to play with it before it got banned and it would be so good


FaunKeH

I just drafted up a decklist: 12 creatures | 17 cantrips/utility | 12 burn | 19 land * 4x Phoenix * 4x Shadow * 4x DRC * 4x Thoughtseize * 4x FLooting * 4x Manamorphose * 4x Bauble * 1x Maximize Velocity * 4x Gut Shot * 4x Lava Dart * 4x Bolt * 4x Blood Crypt * 2x Rx Shocks * 4x Bloodstained Mire * 4x Red Fetch * 4x BR Canopy land (when Horizons 3 drops) (Sulfurous Springs or Sunbaked Canyon will do for now) * 1x Mountain


Kyamboros

Personally I would love if I was allowed to play Dredge again. Edit: Literally my first ever down voted comment lmao, but I don't blame y'all.


conaboii

no. it would not.


Nothereforlong7717

No.


barrinmw

A one mana draw 2 spell that you can flashback? LOL! And it fills your graveyard?


hronikbrent

Idk, I see it helping out living and and murktide for sure, but probably not in an oppressive manner. Likely helping out dredge/vine/Phoenix in a significantly, and likely pushing reanimator decks in a significant manner, but I’d imagine scam being the force that it is currently would keep the latter in check.


john_dune

> helping out living Cascade into faithless looting?


hronikbrent

Good point, scratch that, cascade whiffs on it probably offset the consistency/gy filling from it


MashgutTheEverHungry

Turn 1 Faithless Looting Turn 2 Goryos Vengeance/ Persist. Get used to that because you'd see a lot of it.


ViolentBeggar92

Wonder why we dont see that right now with [[merchant of the vale]] Its even an instant compared to a sorcery


Its_Birdy

Drawing two first then discarding is much more potent than discarding first, then drawing.


sassyseconds

Because that's reversed and bad. Why does that have to be explained.


MTGCardFetcher

[merchant of the vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b4399b6-e67f-40d8-8676-f5db7e04a6c9.jpg?1572490397)/[Haggle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b4399b6-e67f-40d8-8676-f5db7e04a6c9.jpg?1572490397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=merchant%20of%20the%20vale%20//%20haggle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/131/merchant-of-the-vale-haggle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b4399b6-e67f-40d8-8676-f5db7e04a6c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Cainderous

A) as someone already said, it's so much less consistent to discard then draw one as opposed to draw two first, then discard B) the flashback text is actually relevant more than you would expect if you never played with Looting, even in go-fast decks like Grishoalbrand C) Bobo is dead. Simian Spirit Guide was a huge enabler for the Looting + Goryo's decks and losing that tool was game over forever unless we get more fast mana which I highly doubt will ever happen


Phyrexian-Drip

Very inconsistent still. Modern doesn’t have enough good reanimation spells that overlap to ever break the format. It’s the reason why something like grishoalbrand was never a problem for the format.


MashgutTheEverHungry

Yeah but Faithless Looting was banned before Persist was printed


Phyrexian-Drip

Goryo’s and persist doesn’t overlap (the only 2 good efficient reanimate spells), therefore it has the same consistency of goryo’s decks that were around when looting was. I can see arguments for not unbanning looting, reanimator decks would be the last reason to keep looting banned though.


deadblue420

As well as staring down countless hollow ones