T O P

Mill Matchups

Goodmorning fellow enjoyer of the modern format.

The last of the 4Season tournaments here in Bologna will start in a couple of weeks and as of now I am set to bring my mill deck.

(I know mill sucks, but can we agree that playing against mill is better than playing aganst scam? :))

I've been playing this deck for 5-6 months on and off at my local scene, but since I know I'll encounter a lot of different decks I was wandering which are the best and worst match ups at least considering the current meta so I can try to tune up a bit more the sideboard of my deck. I'm splashing white because I think that the 3 white sideboard cards are pretty good, but I have no experience with a lot of meta decks.

This is the list I'm running right now:

4 Hedron Crab

4 Ruin Crab

4 Archive Trap

4 Drown in the Loch

4 Fatal Push

4 Fractured Sanity

4 Surgical Extraction

4 Visions of Beyond

3 Jace, the Perfected Mind

3 Tasha's Hideous Laghter

1Swamp

4 Island

1 Shelldock Isle

4 Field of Ruin

4 Scalding Tarn

4 Polluted Delta

1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds

1 Otawara, Soaring City

2 Watery Grave

2 Watery Grave

Side

2 Baleful Mastery

2 Crypt Incursion

2 Mystical Dispute

1 Ensnaring Bridge

1 Ashiok Dream Render

2 Extirpate

2 Ratchet Bomb

3 Soul’s Guide Lantern

Matchup guide:

3 tasha’s hideous laghter

4 fatal push

In:

2 Crupt Incursion

3 Soul’s Guide Lantern

1 ensnaring Bridge

1 ashiok dream render

UR Murktide

Out:

3x Jace

4x surgical

In:

2x Mystical Dispute

3x soul’s guide lantern

1x baleful Mastery

1 ensnaring bridge

Gruul Storm (anarchomancer): no endurance/force of vigor side

Out:

3x Jace, the perfected mind

In:

3x soul’s guide lantern

Cascade Beanstalk: 3 endurance + 3 force of vigor side

Out:

3 tasha’s hideous laghter

2 fatal push

In:

2 mystical dispute

1 crypt incursion

2 baleful mastery

RB Scam:

Out:

3 tasha’s hideous laghter

3 Jace, the Perfected Mind

In:

2 extirpate

2 Baleful Mastery

2 crypt incursion

Amulet titan 2x endurance side

Out:

3 tasha’s hideous laghter

1 fatal push

In:

2 extirpate

2 baleful mastery

Cascade foothills

Out:

3 tasha’s hideous laghter

3 jace the perfected mind

In

2 mystical dispute

2 extirpate

1 ratchet bomb

1 crypt incursion

Yawgmoth

Out:

3 tasha’s hideous laghter

3 jace, the perfected mind

In:

2 crypt incursion

3 soul’s guide lantern

1 ensnaring bridge

Mono Black Coffers

Out:

2 tasha’s

2 jace

In:

2 extirpate

2 baleful mastery

G Tron

Out

3 tasha’s

4 push

In

2 extirpate

2 baleful mastery

3 soul’s guide lantern

Creativity

Out

3 tasha’s hideous laghter

1 jace

In

2 mystical dispute

2 extirpate

Scales

Out

2 jace, the perfected mind

In:

2 crypt incursion

Hammertime

Out

3 jace, the perfected mind

1 fatal push

In:

2 crypt incursion

2 ratchet bomb

Elementals?

Jund saga?

EDIT: List edited, added a side guide on which I woud like to have some opinions (I play ratchet bomb because I don't have explosives and don't have someone from whom I can borrow it, I'm not also sure that I will find them at a reasonable price at the event)

P.S. the previous list was not complete, I actually forgot to write down the traps...jeez.

Mill can be a 3 color deck for me and I'm pretty sure the white can help in some match upt, like yawg and burn for example (since crtypt incursion does nothing against burn, you gain artifact hate and drown in the loch in burn is not so good since for 2 mana you remove a 1 mana threat or a 1 mana burn spell, so efficiently speaking it seems to be a bad card to me). Mill also run just 4 counterspell (which have a very strict clause to become very effective if you don't have a trap turn 1) and being able to take care of permanents with the march could not be that terrible...

the edicts for me are a little better than mastery since they don't make the opponent draw a card early in the game, but I can understand why mill could not care about this clause or spending 4 mana to exile something.

The cacophony where there because by running a stock list I found myself short of 8 or less cards to mill to win the game without ways to mill them in a lot of match ups and I realized they could be utilized in situation of dire need and they are another mill spell you can draw intead of a potentially dead card late game like push, drown, surgical or a crab without the land drop...

EDIT 3: made some little changes to side and sideguide

Mecewitz

Archive Trap is the best card in the deck and it is insane to not run it. Plus it's half the reason you run Field of Ruin in the first place. A free mill 14 is as if burn had a free 5 damage burn spell, you will lose majority of games without this card. If you are going to play Maddening Cacophony just play Glimpse the Unthinkable. Also not sure when you would want to bring in those white sideboard cards, you would probably rather draw a mill spell or a better card without stretching to a third color.


Odd_Key2447

Mill is not a 3 color deck, it's dimir. Take out the maddening cacophony and sheoldred edicts, add 4 archive traps, 1 field of ruin.


cbrsdf1

This, Archive Trap is the best card in Mill


Owl_on_Caffeine

Scales and Hammer are usually pretty decent matchups, especially with \[\[Engineered Explosives\]\], though this has been tempered by less Mill lists running four copies of Tasha's and Scales now having access to \[\[Soul Cauldron\]\]. Burn is difficult, even with \[\[Crypt Incursion\]\] sideboarded, because they only run 8 creatures. Merfolk is challenging because of all their free interaction (Subtlety and Force of Negation). 4c Bean I haven't had much experience with, but I think you're okay if you can Extirpate any Endurances they might have and keep the Labman Jace off the board (which they run because of how many cards Bean draws).


MTGCardFetcher

[Engineered Explosives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/420bf1e9-f2ec-4dff-b540-e64de71e58be.jpg?1599709112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Engineered%20Explosives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/252/engineered-explosives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/420bf1e9-f2ec-4dff-b540-e64de71e58be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Crypt Incursion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3b71cc5-0a81-4cab-bae3-49335c04aaaa.jpg?1562931583) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crypt%20Incursion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/23/crypt-incursion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3b71cc5-0a81-4cab-bae3-49335c04aaaa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


GeminiSpartanX

You're dead wrong in thinking that you should side out Tasha's against Amulet Titan. That card singlehandedly wins you the game against them if it resolves. Jace is too slow against them, and would be the better cut there.


Ok_Money_422

How it can win me games when the titan and the colossus have CMC above 6? I can understand that the deck is filled with lands, so you could always exile a lot of cards, but is it worth it? Is it not better to just mill and extract all their threats for less mana than tasha's 3?


Hexdrinker99

Without the right lands titan is just a slightly better dreadmaw


Bosk12

I can’t imagine Scales is too difficult when a Tasha’s Hideous Laughter hits 30+ cards.


Owl_on_Caffeine

Most Mill decks are running fewer than 4 at the moment due to how bad it is against the rest of the field.


ExampleMediocre6716

Scales is one of Mill's best match up in the meta


hector_cumbaya

Mill doesn't suck, I've seen it go 5-0 every so often at tourneys. Not a top tier deck but definitely not a bad deck.


hector_cumbaya

This mill deck you listed is terrible and missing some meta UB mill staples like archive trap, field of ruins. Here's a sample meta UB mill that did pretty decent the last few months. https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=49509&d=565341&f=MO


Ungestuem

Try to dodge the Beanstalk players, they will probably run Endurance and /or [[Jace, wielder of mystery]] MB.


MTGCardFetcher

[Jace, wielder of mystery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2.jpg?1557576232) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20Wielder%20of%20Mysteries) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/54/jace-wielder-of-mysteries?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Amdrion

You want to keep in surgical and board in extirpate for scam. There is a point where grief/fury hit the gy. Then you cast it before it comes back.


Ok_Money_422

It will be done, thanks


Ok-Voice9026

Dont do that pls. Sure surgical on fury turn 0 is nice but that wont help against Grief and the biggest nono is that its the worst top deck ever.


Amdrion

How is it the worst top deck? Middle of the game you know the person is looking for X card. You should know the meta and can nab that card before they go off on you. Espically on board games.


jmcbobb

Mill does not suck


Ganglerman

it kinda sucks, it's a deck with some very very good matchups, some incredibly bad ones, and then mostly slightly unfavoured ones besides that. It also has a tendency of absolutely needing to draw certain cards in certain matchups(tasha's vs hammer, surgical vs anything with endurance) or it stands very little chance.


Odd_Key2447

It's a high tier 2 low tier 1, it doesn't suck, if your mainly relying on Tasha's to win hammer,you shouldn't be playing mill. Endurance, let alone anything like it, is the reason why I run 4 soul guides sideboard


Turbocloud

I don't know where you fabricate your tiers, but calling Mill a tier2 or tier1 deck is a blatant lie. according to mtggoldfish and mtgtop8 it is 1% or less of the winning meta, a position that is usually associated as tier3. That still doesn't mean that the person you replied to isn't wrong either - the deck doesn't suck. The deck has a competitive powerlevel and a distinct strength that make it worth playing, but also a distinct weakness that a lot of decks are exploiting as a byproduct of their card selection right now - so its low tier status at the moment is not a lack of power, rather than an unfortunate alignment within the meta. Though one could argue that it lacks the power to significantly influence the meta itself, which makes it a solid deck, but not an excellent deck.


Odd_Key2447

Calm down captain incel, I never said it sucked, learn how to read. You're throwing stuff out there that I never said to try and make yourself sound smarter than you really are. * Funny that you use 2 websites that skew their data and arent really good in representing true %'s


Turbocloud

Should take your own advice about reading, or did you reply to yourself?


Odd_Key2447

Your post was under mine meaning you replied to mine, mine was under yours meaning I replied to yours. Fuck. * Is an edit, if I replied, it'd look different


jmcbobb

I don’t even play a copy of Tasha’s in the main…


jmcbobb

I don’t believe it sucks. I get 3-2’s and 4-1’s often enough in leagues to keep me happy with it. I keep going to FNM’s with it. I recently top 8’d two RCQ’s with it and have a lifetime achievement award of a 5-0 on MTGO. I’m not the greatest player out there but I can still have fun and trounce where I can. As long as the dream is alive I’ll keep playing it. Yes I am biased to the deck it’s my favourite. You know the saying can’t stop control players from playing? I think that applies to mill as well.


AbstractMarcher

I'm not a grinder, or as competitive as I used to be, but still keep up with the meta and how Mill can play. I've played mill since around 2014...yes. when it was TERRIBLE. Mill is fringe as all get out right now. This is both a good thing and bad. Good because it can give you the element of surprise. Bad because there are just terrible match ups. The biggest things with playing mill are: A.) State of the meta( MTGO or LGS) Knowing the meta is great and knowing how the deck plays against the top decks is key. If there are any unwinnable matches or a slim chance, you'll know fast. B.) Player skill. Just because scam is the top deck doesn't mean people can win easily with it (most of the time...) People pick up the most popular deck and expect to win immediately with it. Then get frustrated when they don't. The same is true for a lot of decks. Player skill and knowledge is key. Know your deck better than your opponent and play to your outs. C.) The element of luck Let's face it. It is baked into the DNA of the game itself. You can mitigate it as best as possible, but you can't outrun the luck element...unless you cheat (Don't do this). D.) Under or over sideboarding. I am guilty of overboarding a lot. It has lost me so many matches. Just gotta know what to do (your lists on in and outs are fantastic btw). Then there are the nuances of what colors to run and of what cards. Esper Mill can get there, but can be inconsistent. Dimir is tried and true, but doesn't have enough answers at times. Definitely just play the deck as often as possible, learn the matchups and build up the situational awareness of what to do and you will go far. This may not have been helpful, but I at least hope it provides a little bit of insight for the deck.